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[espher]

The fan of economics in me feels this is an entirely rational decision and I agree with the assessments upstream in the thread re: this being entirely fair w.r.t. currency values. I'm used to this rollercoaster being in Canada, although it's generally limited to future releases (and those releases never subsequently drop in price when the CAD climbs, so it goes both ways).

The fan of gaming in me feels like this is a dumb move that's going to alienate a fickle community, especially considering many of their ardent supporters are already in a love-hate relationship with Paradox.

I'll be waiting on EU4/HoI4 for a while now, I'd wager.

 

[Red Arremer]

this being entirely fair w.r.t. currency values

Have you looked at the price increase spreadsheet that was posted?

Because I have too much time on my hands I made a table:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1FN_lahpNpd0fyTbzaEdwf-S9eETfuqxpC6uiLn6na_g/edit?usp=sharing

It shows the price increase for Europa Universalis IV Extreme Edition and the exchange rates weighted for purchasing power.

It's a bit rough but the end result is the price change "in real terms" in USD.

Japan's purchasing power has decreased and it still saw a price hike, so that puts paid to that excuse.

Russia, Mexico, South Africa, South America in general all got shafted.

A nearly 100% price increase makes no sense.

 

[superdeluxe]

The DLCs generally only go on a 50% sale, unless they're really old I think.

I know CK2. Has a mega DLC package that is usually 35-40$ but you are right the newest DLCs are not a part of that

 

[StereoVsn]

I know CK2. Has a mega DLC package that is usually 35-40$ but you are right the newest DLCs are not a part of that

It's $60 now with new and improved prices. Hence the reviews into the "Mostly Negative" territory.

 

[Neverforget]

Their loss really, choosing to not keep prices competitive like many AAA developers do will just lead potential costumers back to piracy or to flat out ignore the titles.

For such a niche games, one would have thought that providing attractive prices would be a better way to increase sales.

With games that have 300€ worth of DLCs this is the wrong move PR wise. They are killing the good will they had.

I'm a huge fan of CKII but I cannot justify buying any other of their games with 60 DLCs at outrageous prices.

 

[StereoVsn]

For such a niche games, one would have thought that providing attractive prices would be a better way to increase sales.

With games that have 300€ worth of DLCs this is the wrong move PR wise. They are killing the good will they had.

I'm a huge fan of CKII but I cannot justify buying any other of their games with 60 DLCs at outrageous prices.

Yeap, and their short-sighted chase of near-term profits will kill their fan base. This is a dumb, dumb move and their excuse for it is even worse. Their games are being hammered across all, not just Paradox studios.

 

[Fancolors]

I was interested in getting something Paradox because I listened to Waypoint's talk about Stellaris.

lmao at the Brazillian price hike. Not gonna get that now.

 

[Lister]

I think you guys are fucking crazy. Think of the number of hours of gaming your average paradox game provides and divide the price of all the dlc by it and I fucking dare you to find another game that comes even close to giving you that kind of value.

Stellaris is up there with skyrim for me already and it's only a year old.

 

[Keinning]

I think you guys are fucking crazy. Think of the number of hours of gaming your average paradox game provides and divide the price of all the dlc by it and I fucking dare you to find another game that comes even close to giving you that kind of value.

Still play Championship Manager 0102 to this day. It was free (thanks Eidos!).
Could probably snatch up a full copy (as in legitimately full) FM18 for half the price.

So yeah.

 

[spindoctor]

I fucking dare you to find another game that comes even close to giving you that kind of value.

This is a pretty dumb challenge in the era of free to play games. You have heard of games like Dota 2 which are entirely free and offer unlimited hours of gameplay right?

 

[Red Arremer]

I think you guys are fucking crazy. Think of the number of hours of gaming your average paradox game provides and divide the price of all the dlc by it and I fucking dare you to find another game that comes even close to giving you that kind of value.

Stellaris is up there with skyrim for me already and it's only a year old.

I've put hundreds of hours into Mega Man games. I still play them to this date. The price for them through official channels has gone down though. Where they would be full priced games at release, I can go to Steam right now and buy the entire NES collection for less than most expansions of EU4.
I've put hundreds of hours into Spelunky, have bought it on 2 platforms, and still spent less on both combined than 2 DLCs for EU4. And the price of those games stayed the same as well.
Terraria has provided many players hundreds of hours of content, costs 10 bucks on Steam right now, as much as Third Rome for EU4, and has not received any price increases. The game has been supported for entirely free for years, with a shitload of new content that has increased the replayability of Terraria insanely much. Probably doubled its longevity, if not more so.

Also shitty practices are shitty, regardless of how much you play a game.

 

[Lister]

This is a pretty dumb challenge in the era of free to play games. You have heard of games like Dota 2 which are entirely free and offer unlimited hours of gameplay right?

This makes no fucking sense. By that logic, all games should be free? Are you seriously positing that?

Dota is also a single map multiplayer game, not a rich, complex, single player strategy game.

 

[Lister]

Also shitty practices are shitty, regardless of how much you play a game.

Everyone's got a different measure for value. If you don't think their games I offer value. Don't buy them. Bombing reviews is petty and petulant.

 

[Red Arremer]

Everyone's got a different measure for value. If you don't think their games I offer value. Don't buy them. Bombing reviews is petty and petulant.

How is it petty, if my opinion is that "at this price, the game is not worth it, also the company has shitty DLC practices"?
Are we only supposed to praise a game? Is criticism of the game not allowed? And before you say "the DLC practices aren't part of the actual game" - the business practice is part of the whole package that the game's offer entails.

This is akin to a restaurant that has fairly good food getting bad reviews on Yelp for having shitty service. Is it really petty if I post a bad review on Yelp for the local burger joint if, while the burger was good, the servers were rude and the food was overpriced?

 

[texhnolyze]

I think you guys are fucking crazy. Think of the number of hours of gaming your average paradox game provides and divide the price of all the dlc by it and I fucking dare you to find another game that comes even close to giving you that kind of value.

Stellaris is up there with skyrim for me already and it's only a year old.

Still play Championship Manager 0102 to this day. It was free (thanks Eidos!).
Could probably snatch up a full copy (as in legitimately full) FM18 for half the price.

So yeah.

You need to at least read the thread first.

Because if you're not doing anything to give the publisher the right message and accept this kind of shitty behavior, other devs would see this move acceptable and follow suit.

Look from the the bigger picture.

The difference is, those games set the higher price from the start, which is totally fine. Though in some cases people also react for bad initial pricing in the past. Not sure how can't you see it. The appeal of Steam is that people can expect price drop from older games, which is the norm, not the opposite. Your accepting this new behavior is creating a new shitty norm for the customers.

 

[kimifan141]

The price rise for india is just not justified we have faced hell through the recent months that cut down the purchasing power, just look up demonetization, gst and what not

Not sure how paradox thinks we are in a better position to buy their games at higher prices, of course wallet power i only buy games that are priced fairly here rest are a wait for bundles

 

[texhnolyze]

The price rise for india is just not justified we have faced hell through the recent months that cut down the purchasing power, just look up demonetization, gst and what not

Not sure how paradox thinks we are in a better position to buy their games at higher prices, of course wallet power i only buy games that are priced fairly here rest are a wait for bundles

The whole "increased purchashing power" PR excuse is just bulshit.

 

[meerak]

The whole currency argument is too simple and inaccurate. Many products in many countries are sold at a price balaned for that nation's spending, it's the most "duh" thing ever.

And of course price factors into reviews. Remember a review is not criticism in the literary / philosophical sense (where price is rarely a factor).

Canucks for ex are 100% free to laugh their asses off at games asking 80-100 bucks today. Currency be damned.

 

[Agent_Carnage]

What is there to gain to raise the price of a 7 year old game that is a niche product? I can understand brand new games but games from 2010. Are they losing money if they dont raise the price of it? I would assume they made back the production cost of a 7 year old game.

 

[iceblade997]

I think you guys are fucking crazy. Think of the number of hours of gaming your average paradox game provides and divide the price of all the dlc by it and I fucking dare you to find another game that comes even close to giving you that kind of value.

Stellaris is up there with skyrim for me already and it's only a year old.

DOTA 2 would be one such example. Or League of Legends, Overwatch. or Team Fortress 2. Even a B2P MMO like The Elder Scrolls Online. There are quite a few games that can provide similar amounts of playtime if you wind up getting into them.

That said, as beneficial as it can be for free patches alongside the DLC, and supporting the games (rather than, say, dropping them after a year or so), it really does seem like something was going to give at some point and they really do need to look at changing how they handle things - perhaps bundling the DLC for newer players or something else entirely. Hitting just before the Steam Summer Sale also isn't such good timing.

 

[Shizuka]

Now that's a very shitty move, Paradox.

 

[LinkAndEpona]

currency adjustments to prices are not anything odd or weird

I sure as hell have never encountered anything like it, especially for games already long released.

 

[AcademicSaucer]

Thank god I got off EU4 and CK2, months ago I would have bought that DLC regardless.

 

[zer0das]

I sympathize with the people doing this. Paradox DLC greed creep has been a very real thing. They churned out a couple really god awful DLC's in EU4, and in general the quality of their content has been way down (in my opinion). Jacking up prices across the board would put me over the edge if I were in an affected region.

 

[RollerMeister]

Normally you'd lower the price of a game over a long period of time to entice people to buy an older title... Not hike the price up... but I guess with summer sales around the corner, they might try and get the most out of it. If they end up lowering the price after the steam sale it would be the most transparent shit in the world... no matter how much PR bullshit they throw around.

 

[Mazzo3]

Damn, they got us... We're swimming in cash here in Brazil.

 

[Almighty]

I really like the games Paradox has made over the years, but they can get fucked for this. It's times like this where i have to wonder what the people were thinking who approved this. Anyone with half a brain had to see this backlash coming.

The worst thing is that one of my favorite developers, Obsidian, is getting dragged into this mess as well.

 

[Stumpokapow]

Basically this is just inflation. If you don't like it, give out to your government and central bank. It'll do a lot more good than complaining about video game prices on the internet.

... or you could just complain about video game prices on the internet, which quite possibly will make them increase the discount for the countries in question relative to the European price to save face and avoid this PR nightmare?

Like, what exactly is the problem with the tactic people are choosing?

 

[Eila]

I really like the games Paradox has made over the years, but they can get fucked for this. It's times like this where i have to wonder what the people were thinking who approved this. Anyone with half a brain had to see this backlash coming.

The worst thing is that one of my favorite developers, Obsidian, is getting dragged into this mess as well.

Don't think it's the first time this happened. Ubisoft rose the prices from pretty much all old games on steam a while ago, at a least in the Mexican store. But since this is worldwide it seems to me they just got too greedy.

 

[WaterAstro]

There is no hope.

 

[Lyng]

Blizzard did a similar thing in Europe recently.

 

[Spman2099]

This isn't a good look for them.

 

[Mechazawa]

Does Paradox do this in the inverse? Aka do they bust down prices of games for particular regions where the currency gets stronger.

Otherwise: lol. They had it comin'.

 

[Red Arremer]

Does Paradox do this in the inverse? Aka do they bust down prices of games for particular regions where the currency gets stronger.

The purchasing power in Japan has gone down, yet it saw a price increase.

 

[Budi]

Ugh, user reviews were a mistake. Saddest part is that some people actually put value in those (the score), without actually reading the reviews to see if they are worth taking a notice.

 

[spindoctor]

This makes no fucking sense. By that logic, all games should be free? Are you seriously positing that?

Dota is also a single map multiplayer game, not a rich, complex, single player strategy game.

No I'm not saying that all games should be free. Can you not read properly? You're the one who challenged people to find games which have a better ratio for hours played divided by cost, and I pointed out that there are literally hundreds of games in many genres where that ratio is infinite.

I did expect you to move the goalposts though. Dota, for example, is a rich, complex, multiplayer strategy game that fits all your criteria except for the fact that it's not a single player experience. Somehow that isn't good enough for you because it blows your argument out of the water so you'll just ignore it.

 

[Dueck]

Change it for upcoming games, but don't make it retroactive. This was a terrible idea...

 

[Lucumo]

I did expect you to move the goalposts though. Dota, for example, is a rich, complex, multiplayer strategy game that fits all your criteria except for the fact that it's not a single player experience. Somehow that isn't good enough for you because it blows your argument out of the water so you'll just ignore it.

Can't you play with bots yet? At least DotA had AI for that.

 

[SpiceMelange]

Why is Paradox confounding purchasing power and foreign currency value? I'm sure Brazil's purchasing power has not increased by 100% lmao. It's all well and good if you want to get the same USD profit from everyone in the world, but don't expect people from foreign markets to play ball when a game paid in USD equivalent is a much bigger part of their peycheck than your average american. That's why regional pricing exists.

 

[StereoVsn]

Ugh, user reviews were a mistake. Saddest part is that some people actually put value in those (the score), without actually reading the reviews to see if they are worth taking a notice.

I absolutely disagree. In this case they would give a new player a good headsup about Paradox's terrible DLC shenanigans.

The only bad thing about the whole debacle is that Obsidian is getting hit due to their Punlisher's shortsighted policies.

 

[Volphied]

A price increase is bad enough, but multiplying it with all the goddamn DLC is what's truly infuriating.

 

[butzopower]

I've seen Stellaris on a bunch of sales. I got it for $12 with a bunch of other games in the last Humble Monthly Bundle, it was their showcase game for that month, so it wasn't like it was a surprise or anything. Seems like the last major DLC for it also added a bunch of features to the base game as well. Civ V vanilla vs Civ V with Gods and Kings are basically different games.

 

[Tworak]

paradox gone completely garbage after they went public

 

[Jimrpg]

They want all the rich people from the developing worlds to pay up. Most of the people who play video games who can afford US$60 for a day 1 game aren't exactly poor, while that is obviously a generalization lower income people have always been priced out of the equation anyway, video games are for the well off folks in these countries who will pay up anyway.

Obviously a shitty move by Paradox but they are doing what the bigger publishers like Ubisoft and Activision are also doing.

 

[m_dorian]

They know that they will lose some from the herd but they are certain the big fat cows will not escape so they ll continue with their milking and offset this loss.

I keep reading their responses on their appropriate forum thread, they do not seem to feel anything.

 

[StereoVsn]

They want all the rich people from the developing worlds to pay up. Most of the people who play video games who can afford US$60 for a day 1 game aren't exactly poor, while that is obviously a generalization lower income people have always been priced out of the equation anyway, video games are for the well off folks in these countries who will pay up anyway.

Obviously a shitty move by Paradox but they are doing what the bigger publishers like Ubisoft and Activision are also doing.

The difference is that they jacked up prices on old games and the DLC policies with those prices are nuts. The way patches and expansions are rolled out of you want to play with the latter patches, which include bug fixes, you pretty much have to buy at least some of the DLCs.

 

[SpiceMelange]

They want all the rich people from the developing worlds to pay up. Most of the people who play video games who can afford US$60 for a day 1 game aren't exactly poor, while that is obviously a generalization lower income people have always been priced out of the equation anyway, video games are for the well off folks in these countries who will pay up anyway.

Obviously a shitty move by Paradox but they are doing what the bigger publishers like Ubisoft and Activision are also doing.

Ubi and Acti don't retroactively change their steam games prices IIRC.

 

[UserDoesNotExist]

Good.

Publishers will ONLY listen once it affects their bottom line, and no one cares about angry Twitter messages. People do care about reviews.

As for the "what about the developers" argument, this is GAF's version of the "what about the children" argument, and if anything, it's even more silly. Developers are businessmen, not suffering artists. They should be held responsible for the business dealings they make.

 

[Aselith]

I think that's fair game since value propositions change based on price. Sometimes a 10 hour game wouldn't be worth it at $60 but would be worth it at $15 and things such as this. While Paradox games generally have a lot of value for some, others may not agree.

People review based on what's important to them so all you can do is shrug it off. The reviews will change back once the price correction has a little more time to become accepted.

 

[Joe Shlabotnik]

Good.

Publishers will ONLY listen once it affects their bottom line, and no one cares about angry Twitter messages. People do care about reviews.

As for the "what about the developers" argument, this is GAF's version of the "what about the children" argument, and if anything, it's even more silly. Developers are businessmen, not suffering artists. They should be held responsible for the business dealings they make.

Welllll the vast majority of developers aren't the ones making business decisions.

That said it's not really incumbent on consumers to "support the devs" by buying something they think is too expensive.