I actually liked Tsumugi
¯_(ツ_/ ¯
She's likable in the final trial, especially in the localization where her dialogue is really hammy.
But before that......
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New Danganronpa V3 Spoiler Thread
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She's likable in the final trial, especially in the localization where her dialogue is really hammy.
But before that......
one day-two days at most iirc? at least shuichi spend one day moping and then maki calls him the other morning
kokichi also had no way of knowing how everyone else would still be doing since he spent all the time watching kaito around the hangar. all the setup he did to ensure monokuma wouldn't know what was happening inside the murder scene pretty much made him ignorant of everything outside as well. and still the script just knew everything because besides ultimate liar and It fanclub president he was also the ultimate writer and the true ultimate fortune teller i guess
Kokichi didn't have a week where he would have known any of the specifics of the trial, all he had was a vague idea of "create a killing where even monokuma can't know who did it". He wouldn't have known that maki would come in with poison crossbow bolts, or that Kaito would jump in the way of one for him, or that Maki would have to leave the room to go get an antidote to throw in through the window, etc. He had minutes to write out the entire script Kaito supposedly had for all possible sitautions during the trial.
The whole sequence could have been better. Like you knew 200% that it was kaido once you saw the mech lol. Even before it did the voice switching to try to mess with you.
And yeah they do replay that video too many times lol. Game does feel way too focus tested. They really don't need to baby steps explain to you anything remotely complicated.
It's like if this was made by the mario luigi team lol.
And yeah they do replay that video too many times lol. Game does feel way too focus tested. They really don't need to baby steps explain to you anything remotely complicated.
It's like if this was made by the mario luigi team lol.
Brock Reiher
Banned
Maybe he just gave notes for what he'd do in general situations and Kaito is great at improv? lol
I looooove the new Closing Argument music. It's so sad but in like an accepting way.
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
I've thought about it and I have come to the conclusion that Kirumi Tojo is the canonically strongest Danganronpa character. The only reason she died is because she got cutscene executed and everyone knows those are OP and nonsense.
Someone should have just requested she find the Mastermind and beat Monokuma and it would've been done in a day. Sakura aint shit. This is canon btw
Someone should have just requested she find the Mastermind and beat Monokuma and it would've been done in a day. Sakura aint shit. This is canon btw
Damn, if he was Ultimate Planner or Writer, I would totally believe that.
There's definitely a lot of BS in general in the trial stage, but I didn't really like Chapter 4 because it was hitting you all the time with all the rules explanations. When you set your murder scene outside the real world and have to explain all the rules of that world, it just limits the possibilities to what only has been explained so far and that's really boring to trudge through.
Brock Reiher
Banned
I thought the motive would be that Kokichi asked her to murder someone when he was following her around as a joke lol
ScherzoPrime
Member
WRT complaints about the middles cases being contrived... I dunno if I disagree but for some reason I don't think it was that huge of an issue; the only thing I personally had a problem with was Miu of all people suddenly going 'I need to kill to get out of here', though maybe I would've discovered that if I'd done her free time events. In terms of being ahead of the game, besides the infinitely recurring world, I felt that I was hip to the murder happening in the Tennis Lab/being transported through the pool area waaaaay quicker than the game meant me to be. But overall I'm used to contrived BS in murder games so like I said it's not too much of an issue.
Kokichi creating the script... it *does* say that Strike-9 takes a long time to kill, so he could've added the stuff about the poison to a script he'd already been preparing. The issue is the way the crime is currently constructed makes the poisoning element, and therefore who *really* killed Kaito, the apparent crux of the case. Maybe this could've been revision to his original plot that was just to confuse the ultimates about the victim, but in such a scenario Kaito would have no reason to play along; the poisoning by Maki seems vital to the success of the crime.
Like... part of me honestly does feel going 'Tsumugi is a hack fraud writer' is an interesting explanation for all this, but at the end of the day I really do feel that DR2 was a much more tightly constructed narrative, both in terms of overall plot and how it relates to the characters/murders. I think whether it all works holistically here is whether you feel Kodaka's larger argument of 'I'm out of DR stories to tell' is a big of a hook to hang an entire game around, and I'm sort of willing to grant him the benefit of the doubt and say that it is, but even so it's still not as compelling as DR2.
Kokichi creating the script... it *does* say that Strike-9 takes a long time to kill, so he could've added the stuff about the poison to a script he'd already been preparing. The issue is the way the crime is currently constructed makes the poisoning element, and therefore who *really* killed Kaito, the apparent crux of the case. Maybe this could've been revision to his original plot that was just to confuse the ultimates about the victim, but in such a scenario Kaito would have no reason to play along; the poisoning by Maki seems vital to the success of the crime.
Like... part of me honestly does feel going 'Tsumugi is a hack fraud writer' is an interesting explanation for all this, but at the end of the day I really do feel that DR2 was a much more tightly constructed narrative, both in terms of overall plot and how it relates to the characters/murders. I think whether it all works holistically here is whether you feel Kodaka's larger argument of 'I'm out of DR stories to tell' is a big of a hook to hang an entire game around, and I'm sort of willing to grant him the benefit of the doubt and say that it is, but even so it's still not as compelling as DR2.
miu killing kokichi because she thought he could do something dangerous wouldn't be that farfetched. miu killing kokichi to escape and pinning kaito in the process as the killer, while kokichi somehow convinces the good natured and NOT tricked gonta (i thought they would at least do a "inverting the cables inverted gonta's personality" or "kokichi tricked gonta into thinking miu would just sleep because he was using toilet paper" but nope, gonta totally knew he was killing miu and somehow still did it besides everything pointing to him never being able to), all of that after the incredibly stupid decision of entering the VR world that everyone agreed so easily, the combination of stupid/out of character moments in chapter 4 is really hard to swallow
already discussed chapter 5 here, but for a moment i honestly thought the twist would be kaito killing himself to stop maki from being a murderer and then kokichi messing with the crime scene because of course kokichi would do that. still thought it would be a better ending than what we actually got but oh well.
Problem is the way they went instead made no sense. Kaito trying to save Maki could be more obvious, but at least it was justified. Besides the whole script discussion we already had, i have a real hard time believing the guy who spent the entire chapter being dismissive of one of his friends just because he said the truth in the previous case would suddenly work so willingly with Kokichi of all people in one of his bizarre plans just "because he saved my life" and go as far as killing him in the process. Maybe if they raised a point of mercy killing, but they never did,
already discussed chapter 5 here, but for a moment i honestly thought the twist would be kaito killing himself to stop maki from being a murderer and then kokichi messing with the crime scene because of course kokichi would do that. still thought it would be a better ending than what we actually got but oh well.
Problem is the way they went instead made no sense. Kaito trying to save Maki could be more obvious, but at least it was justified. Besides the whole script discussion we already had, i have a real hard time believing the guy who spent the entire chapter being dismissive of one of his friends just because he said the truth in the previous case would suddenly work so willingly with Kokichi of all people in one of his bizarre plans just "because he saved my life" and go as far as killing him in the process. Maybe if they raised a point of mercy killing, but they never did,
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
Kaito killing himself to cheat Maki out of being the blackened was where I thought it was going to go, a bit obvious maybe. What actually happened was more interesting
Anyone feel like the game really wasted the potential of having a character be the ultimate magician? There really should have been a case that involved having to solve the entirety of a complex magic trick with multiple moving parts, you know what I mean? I was pretty dissapointed in chapter 2 when solving Himiko's trick amounted to "There's a hatch in the water tank".
Usually i would but since the character in question is Himiko then i'm glad they didn't do one. Imagine trying to solve some complicated magician twist for a long and tense chapter while she barks IT WAS MAGIC NYEEEHHHH during the entire trial
themagicalkitsune
Member
I forgot she was alive during chapters 3 and 4.
I was more surprised she was alive by the end. I just kept thinking there would be a big twist about her because literally nothing involved her throughout the game.
She def kept herself under the radar most of the time.
ScherzoPrime
Member
Eh Gonta was shown there was no outside world, and while he's good spirited he's suggestible so I think he could really be convinced by Kokichi. I can also buy that Miu was weak willed but not a bad person; she like Kirumi just believed she 'needed' to kill to get to the real world. It sort of plays into the Truth and Lies stuff; outward claiming they trusted in each other to see this through while internally believing they had to kill to survive, just like Kaede did in Trial 1. I also don't think Miu was in a place where she could've killed Kokichi and then take the punishment on herself, so I don't have an issue with her motive being self-serving.
I feel they put the emphasis the wrong way; it should've been more focused on the fact that if Kaito didn't kill Kokichi then Maki would end up the blackened (Killing himself wouldn't stop the poison from killing Kokichi). I do think they brought it up to an extent. Kaito went along with it because he did want to extract more information about the Mastermind himself; obviously since he was already dying he would never have actually tried to avoid execution.
Apart from Kokichi somehow predicting the stuff with the poison and the script being contrived, I don't have too much of an issue with how trial 5 turned out. I actually first thought that both Kokichi and Kaito were dead in a murder-suicide thing; and the EXISAL was just an empty shell with an AI program.
I finished it yesterday, I really like the ending and thought it was a good ending for the series as a whole. I don't know how much further they could have took the whole war with despair thing.
For awhile I thought they were to go with them being video game characters when they talked about themselves being fictional people, which I would hate a lot. I'm glad they are real people in their universe. It does make me wonder how any government would allow a reality show where people kill each other, but I guessing it probably follows the logic of The Purge.
I liked Shuichi as a protagonist, I felt like he was better than the first two, but I havn't played them in awhile to really remember their arcs. I think a big part of it was because he was more competent, and liked his interactions with Kaito and Maki.
For awhile I thought they were to go with them being video game characters when they talked about themselves being fictional people, which I would hate a lot. I'm glad they are real people in their universe. It does make me wonder how any government would allow a reality show where people kill each other, but I guessing it probably follows the logic of The Purge.
I liked Shuichi as a protagonist, I felt like he was better than the first two, but I havn't played them in awhile to really remember their arcs. I think a big part of it was because he was more competent, and liked his interactions with Kaito and Maki.
Royal_Phalanx
Member
Danganronpa killing game is basically Hunger Games.
You mean Battle Royale!
Royal_Phalanx
Member
If PUBG was another one of Monokuma's killing games I like to imagine that Maki and Mukuro would kick serious ass and bring home the chicken dinner. All the other characters except maybe Sonia and Fuyuhiko would die.
And the purge.
Ultimate Survivor was his title for 53. He was almost certainly something else in 52.
The story makes it pretty obvious that Tsumugi sucks as the mastermind. Kaede's optimistic personality managed to completely fuck up the time limit in the beginning, forcing Tsumugi to break the own rules of the game to kill her. And Kokichi runs circles around her and makes her look like a complete fool; to the point where she doesn't even know who the real killer of Case 5 is. I guess that in itself could be a critique of how writers get lazier and make more mistakes as a franchise drags on.
This might be a dumb question, but did we ever get confirmation on what Keebo actually is? Is he a real person that was turned into a robot by Team Danganronpa or was Keebo specifically created by them for the game?
This might be a dumb question, but did we ever get confirmation on what Keebo actually is? Is he a real person that was turned into a robot by Team Danganronpa or was Keebo specifically created by them for the game?
I just realized what "you wanted this" in his video message meant.
That whole video thing sure is stupidly cryptic for a perk. Why did he remember the Ultimate Hunt before anyone else again?
themagicalkitsune
Member
Anyone have any 'fake death' images of DRV3 that circulated the web? I'm pretty sure at one point I had seen someone who looked very much like a dead Kiyo resting on a wall or something.
ScherzoPrime
Member
The real perk was the map of the facility and the note he left to himself; the 'Ultimate Hunt' was there as proof that the note to himself was genuine.
I finished the game tonight but Kaede being a bait and switch protagonist really soured my opinion of Shuichi. I'm not really fond of the trope that kills female characters for growth. I know it's Danganronpa but Kaede had the potential to be refreshing. In the final chapter, the game even pokes fun at Shuichi for being a weak detective, and I was like...yeah.
The twist was...unique. I'm not really sure how I feel about it but the game series couldn't keep going I suppose.
Make a Danganronpa V3: Kaede version please.
The twist was...unique. I'm not really sure how I feel about it but the game series couldn't keep going I suppose.
Make a Danganronpa V3: Kaede version please.
He was a real robot cuz they do mention his eyes are cameras for the audience. Also, Miu actually worked on him so she wouldve seen if he was a real robot or not. If he had any human parts, Im sure Miu wouldve told everyone.
WhereAreMahDragonz
Banned
No.
If he had remembered he was the ultimate survivor, he would have known from the start what the twist is, which would have made them not want to kill each other. Which is why they put the video perk in his lab, that would only unlock after a bunch of murders and near the end of the killing game.
If you think about it, the only reason he died is because Tsumugi couldn't ruin everything on the first day by being forced to kill everyone. They unknowingly backed her into a corner. It has nothing to do with his perks, other than that he knew the door was there. Not like he could've entered it anyway.
I know, I just thought it was funny. The responses to that tweet alone are pretty indicative of how split people are on V3 itself.
Sky Interloper
Member
I'm currently going through this thread, but I have to say that I loved the ending twist of V3. He pulled a plot that criticizes the entire system that sustains Danganronpa, even if within the context of a killing reality show.
I completely understand the fact that we are talking about a fiction within a fiction (retroactively making DR1-3 an entity within a fiction within a fiction world) whose values don't apply to the societies we can find in our world, but I found the commentary on the potential depravity that humanity always carries to be a compelling one. Lives are expendable within the show that Team Danganronpa orchestrates in the V3 reality, and there are even individuals there who thought of their own existences as meaningless to the point of surrendering them by blind fanatism - that entire system of values seems so alien to a player, even coming from the Hope's Peak saga. That the audience encourages this behavior just drives the point even further. Plenty of people may be annoyed by the implications this message preaches, but their opinion on this point is completely personal and respectable (after all, part of what makes humanity so dynamic is the different responses to feedback).
And I can't help but think of the other component of this ending: the entire metaphysical construction that defines the cast as themselves is borked, as the original egos were basically killed after being having implanted new personalities and memories by the production staff of the 53rd game. Their current identities have no basis on the game's reality, and so, they are effectively alone in the world. And all the tribulations the group sustained were for the sake of entertainment of others by their own decision (It seems? The prologue and the extended scenes at CH6 seem to contradict each other). They are lies given corporeal form.
That makes the final decision they make as survivors work so well. Even if they are existences outside the common scope and are puppets used for fun, they decide to regain control of their last actions by foregoing their intended end, stalling the game by refusing to participate in it and making it lose its purpose. I actually expected a demoralising ending by killing them, so I kind of hate the actual resolution of the story. It felt too contrived to actually convince the public, but disrespecting the determination of the characters by saving them at the eleventh hour left me unsatisfied. But I suppose that's what Kodaka set to do from the beginning - even if resolutions seem to be a problem for him (DR0 notwithstanding IMO), the message he sent at the end was clear: truth or lies, fiction or reality, the opportunity to make your own story (whatever origin any developments you do have) and move on resides solely in the person.
The meta ride was wonderful, though. He finally did here what I expected ever since those DR3 storyboards were spotted in the anime, but in a way that felt final for him (there's no way Spike Chunsoft will leave behind such a profitable franchise). An hilariously amazing wild ride for what it's seemingly Kodaka's last time at the helm, with its flaws of course. Going again through the same basic ideas behind each chapter was tiring, and no amount of purpose behind that will make it less repetitive. For all that Tsumugi's role as the mastermind was elevated by the actual circumstances of the game, her actual character still felt flat. And the less I think of Angie's gimmick, the better.
As for the other twist, I personally could care less. The switcheroo was predictable even before JPN release, and ultimately disappointing in that it actually happened. But I completely see where people are coming from the reactions to that particular plot detail.
The landing was a little botched, but it was a great ride.
I completely understand the fact that we are talking about a fiction within a fiction (retroactively making DR1-3 an entity within a fiction within a fiction world) whose values don't apply to the societies we can find in our world, but I found the commentary on the potential depravity that humanity always carries to be a compelling one. Lives are expendable within the show that Team Danganronpa orchestrates in the V3 reality, and there are even individuals there who thought of their own existences as meaningless to the point of surrendering them by blind fanatism - that entire system of values seems so alien to a player, even coming from the Hope's Peak saga. That the audience encourages this behavior just drives the point even further. Plenty of people may be annoyed by the implications this message preaches, but their opinion on this point is completely personal and respectable (after all, part of what makes humanity so dynamic is the different responses to feedback).
And I can't help but think of the other component of this ending: the entire metaphysical construction that defines the cast as themselves is borked, as the original egos were basically killed after being having implanted new personalities and memories by the production staff of the 53rd game. Their current identities have no basis on the game's reality, and so, they are effectively alone in the world. And all the tribulations the group sustained were for the sake of entertainment of others by their own decision (It seems? The prologue and the extended scenes at CH6 seem to contradict each other). They are lies given corporeal form.
That makes the final decision they make as survivors work so well. Even if they are existences outside the common scope and are puppets used for fun, they decide to regain control of their last actions by foregoing their intended end, stalling the game by refusing to participate in it and making it lose its purpose. I actually expected a demoralising ending by killing them, so I kind of hate the actual resolution of the story. It felt too contrived to actually convince the public, but disrespecting the determination of the characters by saving them at the eleventh hour left me unsatisfied. But I suppose that's what Kodaka set to do from the beginning - even if resolutions seem to be a problem for him (DR0 notwithstanding IMO), the message he sent at the end was clear: truth or lies, fiction or reality, the opportunity to make your own story (whatever origin any developments you do have) and move on resides solely in the person.
The meta ride was wonderful, though. He finally did here what I expected ever since those DR3 storyboards were spotted in the anime, but in a way that felt final for him (there's no way Spike Chunsoft will leave behind such a profitable franchise). An hilariously amazing wild ride for what it's seemingly Kodaka's last time at the helm, with its flaws of course. Going again through the same basic ideas behind each chapter was tiring, and no amount of purpose behind that will make it less repetitive. For all that Tsumugi's role as the mastermind was elevated by the actual circumstances of the game, her actual character still felt flat. And the less I think of Angie's gimmick, the better.
As for the other twist, I personally could care less. The switcheroo was predictable even before JPN release, and ultimately disappointing in that it actually happened. But I completely see where people are coming from the reactions to that particular plot detail.
The landing was a little botched, but it was a great ride.
I'm pretty sure he was initially human, but turned into a robot once they became contestants on the show.
"Clair de Lune" by Claude Debussy
Just gonna drop this beauty here. My new favorite classical song. It helps that it only played at two of the most powerful moments of the game.
Just gonna drop this beauty here. My new favorite classical song. It helps that it only played at two of the most powerful moments of the game.
Sky Interloper
Member
That moment when everything came crashing down at the end. Perfection.
Trigonometrize.
Member
He's just trolling, basically.
True.
I'm just trying to picture the ultimate ability in action. Probably more like Rambo first blood lol.
The title of Ultimate Survivor is given to anyone that participates in the next killing game. Shu mentions that Maki would become the new Ultimate Survivor for the next game so she would no longer be the ultimate assassin.
ScherzoPrime
Member
I'd push back on DR1/2 being 'without value'. My take is that the DR1/2 of 'the outside world' have had their meaning ground down to nothing because the series would never end. Basically Kodaka is saying to do these stories, to create these characters, as a creator, there has to be a context where their struggles and sacrifices actually make a difference; a belief in 'the power of fiction'. The DR of the Outside World has long been divorced from the idea that 'Hope and Despair' actually mean anything. If all we're doing with DR is returning to the well again and again for the sake of sadistic voyuerism and cheap affirmation of the human condition, that's not something Kodaka wants to be part of.
*thinking emoji*
Hes right. The end is us.
Sky Interloper
Member
I suppose thats the other point of the ending, the actual meta point. I completely agree that the Danganronpa fiction within a fiction lost its purpose for the audience (clearly inside the game and sorta in our world) and the series became a brutal spectacle for the sake of it. I suppose that is part of the reason why Kodaka felt the need to go this route with the V3 ending, to take a stand in this matter as you say. I wonder if he felt that theres nothing else he could do as a creator with DR and decided to give it a send off in his terms.