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New Danganronpa V3 Spoiler Thread

What were they saying about DR0? I tended to like the revelations about Junko from that story.

Some inconsequential garbled quotes from the novel that in context are huge spoilers.

The theory that every character is just a perversely exaggerated identity of their own original character is one I've pretty much held onto since day one of beating the game. It doesn't make sense for someone like Kaede who according to her audition tape "has no faith in humanity", to help someone like Shuichi, a person she's just met. I think it's more so that unlike Ultimate!Kaede, regular Kaede is just a cynic/realist. The first thing she tells Shuichi to do is to shut up and get a hold of himself, which she does in a really demanding manner, but she apologizes not long after that, showing that there's a part of her that actually does care about people. In contrast, the first thing Ultimate!Kaede tries to do is immediately comfort Shuichi in a friendly manner. The one thing both Kaedes have in common is that they have no trouble being assertive, but Ultimate!Kaede plays up both her ability to be caring and brings a large side of flaws into the forefront with that.

It's kinda why I wish if V3 was going to deconstruct the Danganronpa formula, they'd have gone deeper into the entire concept of Ultimates and making a singular interest be the end-all, be-all to a character's identity. If Keebo was a human, he probably had a fascination with mechas or robots, maybe studying robotics science even. Maki might've had a weapons fixation. It would've been interesting to explore, and perfect for Kaede since she's the one character to have seen the biggest attitude change to the player, and she has a very throwaway "uninteresting" title in contrast to everyone else, especially Shuichi who ends up emboldening the DR concept.

A good theory on the creation of the Ultimate personalities. It would be easier for Team Danganronpa to take the base characteristics of a participant and exagerate them for the sake of the game - at the final trial only the concept of implanting memories is touched upon, not an erasure of personality like what happened in Izuru's case.

What you propose would have been interesting, but I wonder if the pacing wouldn't hurt as a result. A longer pre-Flashlight prologue would have been too suspect, and the final trial is long enough as it is.
 
I think the consensus seems to be that this game is thematically interesting but just simply isn't as well constructed as previous games from an overall plot standpoint. I'm personally willing to give Kodaka leeway and say that's sort of the point; he's burnt out on the whole Danganronpa artifice and wants to stop doing it.

But I guess another question to ask though is, was making the point/joke that DR's gotten stale to him the right thing for him to do, or should he rather had tried to actually reinvent what Danganronpa *is*? My guess is he'd prefer to start from a completely blank canvas; so he didn't want DRV3 to be a half measure: he just doubled down on 'Oh you want more Danganronpa?Oh I'll GIVE you more Danganronpa...'
 

CrazyDude

Member
12e381879b048737fd34481f854af699.png
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https://twitter.com/kazkodaka/status/919216961086615552

Kodaka is looking for writers for DR. Apparently posted ads overseas as well according to people who've translated it. Interesting to see what'll happen if a Western writer gets involved in the writing team. Could shake things up, introduce new perspectives and so on. So if any GAF members want to apply to write their own Danganronpa game, now's your chance :p

Jokes on the foreign writers who end up locked in the Spike Chunsoft office and forced to participate in a killing game, using their knowledge of Danganronpa tropes to outwit each other and survive.
 

sungahymn

Neo Member
Jokes on the foreign writers who end up locked in the Spike Chunsoft office and forced to participate in a killing game, using their knowledge of Danganronpa tropes to outwit each other and survive.
That fact that I'd play that game fills me with shame.

Kodaka was right.
 

Zolo

Member
https://twitter.com/kazkodaka/status/919216961086615552

Kodaka is looking for writers for DR. Apparently posted ads overseas as well according to people who've translated it. Interesting to see what'll happen if a Western writer gets involved in the writing team. Could shake things up, introduce new perspectives and so on. So if any GAF members want to apply to write their own Danganronpa game, now's your chance :p

Guess that answers that about a sequel.
 

Jeffrey

Member
Is the anime stuff worth reading up or watching? This games it all seem like not worth bothering and I hear negative stuff for it.
 

mdubs

Banned
Well, I just finished and I thought this was the best one in the series by far. It had the most coherent plot and the best characters. This is also the only game where I thought the entire meta story actually worked, and it managed to salvage the nonsense that is the future foundation. 2 was good as well when it didn’t try to involve DR1.

My main thought is that DR1 and its characters have not aged well and are pretty garbage in hindsight.
 

Hahahaha

Thinking of Shuichi as a Kirigiri and Junko fanboy is hilarious. And it brings to my mind the idea that Kirigiri would have pinned Tsumugi as the mastermind in record time. Whoever gets the reigns of the franchise needs (DR0 spoilers, just in case)
to have a competent puppetmaster without an ability so overpowered as the Ultimate Analyst.

Also, good to know that the proud tradition of making sprite videos is alive and well in this fandom.
 
Hahahaha

Thinking of Shuichi as a Kirigiri and Junko fanboy is hilarious. And it brings to my mind the idea that Kirigiri would have pinned Tsumugi as the mastermind in record time. Whoever gets the reigns of the franchise needs (DR0 spoilers, just in case)
to have a competent puppetmaster without an ability so overpowered as the Ultimate Analyst.

I sorta think
Ultimate Analyst fits really well thematically with Junko.
It explains why she is incapable of experiencing hope; it's impossible to hope for anything when you know exactly how things will turn out, which metastasized into a sadistic nihilism. I really should re-read DR0 one of these days; how much insight do you think Ryoko gives into Junko's nature?
 
Well, I just finished and I thought this was the best one in the series by far. It had the most coherent plot and the best characters. This is also the only game where I thought the entire meta story actually worked, and it managed to salvage the nonsense that is the future foundation. 2 was good as well when it didn’t try to involve DR1.

My main thought is that DR1 and its characters have not aged well and are pretty garbage in hindsight.

I agree on the last point. I really liked Danganronpa 1 when I first played it, but after playing 2 and V3 it just doesn't look appealing anymore. It has some good moments like Sakura's final letter and basically whenever Kyoko starts talking and New World Order plays, but it feels like a wonky first step. The casts and twists of 2 and V3 are more refined.
 

ULTROS!

People seem to like me because I am polite and I am rarely late. I like to eat ice cream and I really enjoy a nice pair of slacks.
To summarize the villains and victims of each game:

DR1:
Villain: Junko Enoshima, Victims: 78th Class of Hope's Peak Academy
DR2:
Villains: Ultimate Despair, Victims: Ultimate Despair
DR53: Villain: Danganronpa, Victims: The Fans
 

Zeroro

Member
Hahahaha

Thinking of Shuichi as a Kirigiri and Junko fanboy is hilarious. And it brings to my mind the idea that Kirigiri would have pinned Tsumugi as the mastermind in record time. Whoever gets the reigns of the franchise needs (DR0 spoilers, just in case)
to have a competent puppetmaster without an ability so overpowered as the Ultimate Analyst.

Also, good to know that the proud tradition of making sprite videos is alive and well in this fandom.

DR sprite videos are the stupidest thing in the world, but I can't help watching them.
 
To summarize the villains and victims of each game:

DR1:
Villain: Junko Enoshima, Victims: 78th Class of Hope's Peak Academy
DR2:
Villains: Ultimate Despair, Victims: Ultimate Despair
DR53: Villain: Danganronpa, Victims: The Fans

I would say DR2 victims are
Ultimate Despair + Monomi. Poor Monomi.
 
I dunno, I think the characters of DR1 still stand up for the most part, it's just the later casts have been even better. I think the two things the original really lacked was a member of the cast to act as sort of a thematic foil to the protagonist, and an actual understanding of what Hope and Despair really mean.

WRT the foil, DR1 *sorta* had that in Byakuya, but I dunno how I feel about him in the end; I get his role as the Kaiba-esqe rival but he doesn't have the Thematic Oomph that Hopeman and Kokkichi gave in their antagonistic roles. Obviously as the first game Monokuma himself is supposed to have the central antagonist role, but since he's doing it all for the sadistic lulz it's not a lot to thematically latch onto.

And that get's me to the second point, which is... I don't really think Kodaka really thought much about what 'hope and despair' really meant when he wrote DR1 and I think he's actually spent a lot of time since then actually really considering it. In DR1 Hope essentially just means plucky determination whereas despair is... not plucky determination? Not that the situation isn't overwhelming, but I don't think Kodaka truly digs into what despair means until the later games, because in DR1 it basically amounts to 'accepting a shitty situation', which is a very superficial understanding of despair and I think something later games rectify.
 
I sorta think
Ultimate Analyst fits really well thematically with Junko.
It explains why she is incapable of experiencing hope; it's impossible to hope for anything when you know exactly how things will turn out, which metastasized into a sadistic nihilism. I really should re-read DR0 one of these days; how much insight do you think Ryoko gives into Junko's nature?

(Danganronpa/Zero disussion)

Oh, don't misunderstand me. I love the fact that the Junko's actual talent is (the OP Danganronpa version of) analysis.
As you said, it made her fixation on despair understandable from her PoV: she is basically the superhuman she claimed to be in the final trial of the first game to the point that every outcome that can come from a particular situation is old news to her. Such an existence might as well had been a drag for her until she found that despair brought out chaotic reactions that not even her had calculated; her rendezvous with Kamukura (the highlight of DR3) clearly exposes such a school of thought. The depravity we see at DR1 was her being completely consumed by despair, to the point that the possibility of reveling in that feeling completely overrides the predictability of the final chapter of the game.

Ryoko is an interesting existence as she is the closest thing in canon to a "sane" Junko. Her nihilism just takes another form, with her Matsuda-inflicted condition separating her ego from her past and her future, ultimately making her careless and emotionless about the world surrounding her except for the obsession with Matsuda and her reliance on what's written on the diary. As a fluctuating existence of the present, Ryoko is freed from her story and falling back into the clutch that despair is for Junko while avoiding the philosophical questions that arose from the prospective of a stimulation-free life. She is effectively removed from the Hope-Despair dichotomy that pervades the Hope's Peak saga as the center of her universe is one Yasuke Matsuda - a situation that comes to its conclusion at the climax of the second book and was perfectly manipulated by Junko.

Nevertheless, the fact that Ryoko was still bonkers even after going through the treatment (with egoistic motivations from all sides involved) paints her short stint in a melancholic tone - Enoshima's talent is effectively her greatest blessing and her biggest curse, preventing her from ever having a normal development. It makes Zero interesting by humanizing the Ultimate Despair, giving her a Freudian excuse that was entirely disregarded by the actual Junko Enoshima. After all (and ignoring the disaster that was DR3!Junko) she had always been presented a force of nature clearly in control of the situation at all times, so seeing a branching possibility even for a moment was captivating and completely despair-inducing.
 
(Danganronpa/Zero disussion)

Oh, don't misunderstand me. I love the fact that the Junko's actual talent is (the OP Danganronpa version of) analysis.
As you said, it made her fixation on despair understandable from her PoV: she is basically the superhuman she claimed to be in the final trial of the first game to the point that every outcome that can come from a particular situation is old news to her. Such an existence might as well had been a drag for her until she found that despair brought out chaotic reactions that not even her had calculated; her rendezvous with Kamukura (the highlight of DR3) clearly exposes such a school of thought. The depravity we see at DR1 was her being completely consumed by despair, to the point that the possibility of reveling in that feeling completely overrides the predictability of the final chapter of the game.

Ryoko is an interesting existence as she is the closest thing in canon to a "sane" Junko. Her nihilism just takes another form, with her Matsuda-inflicted condition separating her ego from her past and her future, ultimately making her careless and emotionless about the world surrounding her except for the obsession with Matsuda and her reliance on what's written on the diary. As a fluctuating existence of the present, Ryoko is freed from her story and falling back into the clutch that despair is for Junko while avoiding the philosophical questions that arose from the prospective of a stimulation-free life. She is effectively removed from the Hope-Despair dichotomy that pervades the Hope's Peak saga as the center of her universe is one Yasuke Matsuda - a situation that comes to its conclusion at the climax of the second book and was perfectly manipulated by Junko.

Nevertheless, the fact that Ryoko was still bonkers even after going through the treatment (with egoistic motivations from all sides involved) paints her short stint in a melancholic tone - Enoshima's talent is effectively her greatest blessing and her biggest curse, preventing her from ever having a normal development. It makes Zero interesting by humanizing the Ultimate Despair, giving her a Freudian excuse that was entirely disregarded by the actual Junko Enoshima. After all (and ignoring the disaster that was DR3!Junko) she had always been presented a force of nature clearly in control of the situation at all times, so seeing a branching possibility even for a moment was captivating and completely despair-inducing.

I think wrt Ryoko it's because once you remove the despair what you have left of Junko is her passing fancies and Media junkiness. I really need to re-read it now with the whole DR series behind me. I remember finding it a bit tedious at times but I should re-read it with an eye to the fact Ryoko is Junko.

Kiiiinda curious to hear your thoughts on DR3 Junko, since I similarly rather like her elsewhere but found her insufferable in Despair Arc. To me she felt like fucking Poochie, she could go anywhere and do anything because... reasons. And she just wasn't entertaining and her reasons made no sense compared to everything else I knew about her. Disrupting the School's Harmony? Really?

I sort of thought the genius of DR2, for example, is that Junko sort of has a point; Hope's Peak isn't this beacon that's guiding mankind to a new dawn, but an institution that crushes people all in the name of a self-serving false hope. You sort of get why people might buy into her nihilism. DR3... pretty much completely ignores that and treats her like she's doing this completely for shits and giggles, which isn't *entirely* wrong but I think sells what was actually going on short.
 

Abdiel

Member
So I haven't played the game, but the final episode of the anime went live, concluding that arc for the main cast from the originals and the remnants of despair. I enjoyed it. Figured this was the best thread to mention it since I didn't see it anywhere else
 

NotLiquid

Member
I just don't see why they would bleep out Shuichi's name in the audition tape when he is introducing himself if it wasn't to hide his real name.

On the other hand, censoring his name makes it ambiguous as to whether or not the identity of "Shuichi Saihara" was fake. It goes both ways. Even if you subscribe to the notion that Tsumugi wasn't lying about how they willingly signed up for the killing game, and that them being excited about being "chosen" for it actually happened, the prologue where Shuichi and Kaede introduce themselves by name is still something that happened. It would've made no sense to hit them with a flashback light, have them go through all that confusion of waking up in the school to normal memories, and then "reset" them with new personalities to do the exact same thing but now in Ultimate personalities. Even if you want to make the case that the Monokubs did screw up the memory implant, Tsumugi's account directly contradicts that, as she says that once they got their Ultimate attire, they immediately respond with joy of being selected.

I feel that, if you read into Tsumugi's entire master stroke being piling lie on top of a lie with complete disregard, which was essentially what the flashback lights did throughout the game, most of the contradictions that start cropping up are the ones she reveals to us. It's a ten pound bullshit serving that keeps hiding the truth, when in reality you gotta consider the occam's razor. After all, she's an obsessed fangirl; she wants to "cosplay the world", while the one opening we can trust through our own experience is just way much more down to earth featuring regular highschoolers reacting in regular ways.

I've speculated once before but I'm thinking the entire business of having those audition tapes, and having them do the business of running through the school, before gaining their identities, is Team Danganronpa's "insurance policy". If we suppose that there is a massive audience out there that enjoys watching the killing games, we have to assume that to maintain the audience's moral right to enjoy it, everyone needs to be a willing participant ready to die or kill. But like Shuichi said, even though these are people who might enjoy the show or have heard of it (Rantaro and Kaede's dialogue in the prologue implies they have a good idea what's about to happen, meaning that they're aware of Danganronpa), it's hard to believe that the cast willingly signed up for it. They would rather enjoy the show as voyeurs but never want to be embroiled in the notion of putting their life on the line (something the game highlights the hypocrisy of), and as such I wouldn't be surprised that, even if Danganronpa might have some willing signups, most of the participants are taken against their will. They're then forced to go through a short initiation process in order to create a fake scenario that they can manipulate for the audience, hence the audition tapes, hence Tsumugi revealing that they were all of a sudden overjoyed after the Ultimate selection. It's all there so that, in the off chance that the game goes south - which it did in the case of V3 - they have something to fall back on to regain audience's trust. Because if it ever got out that these kids were forcibly drafted, people would likely outrage over Team DR essentially fostering a glorified serial killing enterprise.
 
On the other hand, censoring his name makes it ambiguous as to whether or not the identity of "Shuichi Saihara" was fake. It goes both ways. Even if you subscribe to the notion that Tsumugi wasn't lying about how they willingly signed up for the killing game, and that them being excited about being "chosen" for it actually happened, the prologue where Shuichi and Kaede introduce themselves by name is still something that happened. It would've made no sense to hit them with a flashback light, have them go through all that confusion of waking up in the school to normal memories, and then "reset" them with new personalities to do the exact same thing but now in Ultimate personalities. Even if you want to make the case that the Monokubs did screw up the memory implant, Tsumugi's account directly contradicts that, as she says that once they got their Ultimate attire, they immediately respond with joy of being selected.

I feel that, if you read into Tsumugi's entire master stroke being piling lie on top of a lie with complete disregard, which was essentially what the flashback lights did throughout the game, most of the contradictions that start cropping up are the ones she reveals to us. It's a ten pound bullshit serving that keeps hiding the truth, when in reality you gotta consider the occam's razor. After all, she's an obsessed fangirl; she wants to "cosplay the world", while the one opening we can trust through our own experience is just way much more down to earth featuring regular highschoolers reacting in regular ways.

I've speculated once before but I'm thinking the entire business of having those audition tapes, and having them do the business of running through the school, before gaining their identities, is Team Danganronpa's "insurance policy". If we suppose that there is a massive audience out there that enjoys watching the killing games, we have to assume that to maintain the audience's moral right to enjoy it, everyone needs to be a willing participant ready to die or kill. But like Shuichi said, even though these are people who might enjoy the show or have heard of it (Rantaro and Kaede's dialogue in the prologue implies they have a good idea what's about to happen, meaning that they're aware of Danganronpa), it's hard to believe that the cast willingly signed up for it. They would rather enjoy the show as voyeurs but never want to be embroiled in the notion of putting their life on the line (something the game highlights the hypocrisy of), and as such I wouldn't be surprised that, even if Danganronpa might have some willing signups, most of the participants are taken against their will. They're then forced to go through a short initiation process in order to create a fake scenario that they can manipulate for the audience, hence the audition tapes, hence Tsumugi revealing that they were all of a sudden overjoyed after the Ultimate selection. It's all there so that, in the off chance that the game goes south - which it did in the case of V3 - they have something to fall back on to regain audience's trust. Because if it ever got out that these kids were forcibly drafted, people would likely outrage over Team DR essentially fostering a glorified serial killing enterprise.

I disagree. Kaito specifically mentions how he was definitely going to kill everyone and win the game.

And even others were overjoyed when they found out they were selected. I don't see it as "why would anyone sign up for that shit?" and more of "I want to do it for the fame and the popularity, and to be a part of my favorite show." Fans are obsessive, and in this case, it's possible that that devotion may cost them their lives, but I can see them signing up regardless.

I suspect the participants often want out once they lose their memories (which is why they record them, to prove the truth), which fuels the killing game even more. It's just like in DR1. They forgot that they WANTED to be sheltered in the academy, and only when they didn't understand, they panicked and tried to get out.

If Danganronpa has a worldwide following, as we know now that it does, surely it would have been revealed after 53 seasons that the participants were unwilling, if that were the case.
 

MrCinos

Member
The fact that they aren't willingly participating in the game becomes apparent if you remember that Kaede was kidnapped prior to the start of the game. I doubt kidnapping had some random goal other than against her will to force her in participation. IIRC it happened before memory manipulation began, right?

It was probably discussed already, but isn't this detail basically nullifies everything Tsumugi said? If she said such an obvious lie, most of her testimony doesn't shed any light on the state of events in DR world.

I'm really on a fence about the next game, I want both continuation to see what actually happened within DR world and on the other hand I want an actual reboot this time as well.
 

NotLiquid

Member
I disagree. Kaito specifically mentions how he was definitely going to kill everyone and win the game.

And even others were overjoyed when they found out they were selected. I don't see it as "why would anyone sign up for that shit?" and more of "I want to do it for the fame and the popularity, and to be a part of my favorite show." Fans are obsessive, and in this case, it's possible that that devotion may cost them their lives, but I can see them signing up regardless.

But if we assume that tape was fabricated it's no reason to believe that is something most people actually believe. It's just as likely that this is another one of Tsumugi's lies, because she's basically a consummate liar who wants to be a "cosplaycat criminal".

Like I said, and like the game even ponders about - people like to watch killing games. That doesn't mean they want to be in one. It's all an extension of the whole meta take of, sure, we all like to play Danganronpa games, but would any of us actually want to be in a real one where we put our lives on the line? Some may be, but people like Tsumugi who are so obsessed that they dedicate their actual life to recreate the flesh and blood experience, are likely in the minority.

It's kinda like how a lot of celebrities and actors back in the day wish they could've been involved in one of the Saw movies because they wanna see themselves dying in cool looking ways, but actually willingly partaking in a real life trap would've likely not been something they want to do.
 
But if we assume that tape was fabricated it's no reason to believe that is something most people actually believe. It's just as likely that this is another one of Tsumugi's lies, because she's basically a consummate liar who wants to be a "cosplaycat criminal".

Like I said, and like the game even ponders about - people like to watch killing games. That doesn't mean they want to be in one. It's all an extension of the whole meta take of, sure, we all like to play Danganronpa games, but would any of us actually want to be in a real one where we put our lives on the line? Some may be, but people like Tsumugi who are so obsessed that they dedicate their actual life to recreate the flesh and blood experience, are likely in the minority.

It's kinda like how a lot of celebrities and actors back in the day wish they could've been involved in one of the Saw movies because they wanna see themselves dying in cool looking ways, but actually willingly partaking in a real life trap would've likely not been something they want to do.

If it was unwilling, why would people even support the show? It's not like they're being made to watch. If people were forced into a killing game, I can guarantee SOMEONE in power would have stopped it / the masses wouldn't have supported it.

I believe the tapes are legit. They wouldn't have been able to get such a genuine reaction if they were coerced or forced.

I view the kidnapping thing as just part of the reality show experience. Like where people break into your house to surprise you by renovating your kitchen or some shit.
 

NotLiquid

Member
If it was unwilling, why would people even support the show? It's not like they're being made to watch.

I believe the tapes are legit. They wouldn't have been able to get such a genuine reaction if they were coerced or forced.

I view the kidnapping thing as just part of the reality show experience. Like where people break into your house to surprise you by renovating your kitchen or some shit.

That's why I said the business of kidnapping and making those tapes isn't to convince the participants; it's to convince the audience that it's actually okay to support the show. In the off chance that the participants discover they're part of some big ploy or if someone starts questioning the ethical ramifications of high schoolers murdering each other, they can just pop up those tapes to say "it's okay guys they agreed to it anyway. See ya in Danganronpa 54."

Shuichi notices it in Tsumugi's choice of words during the epilogue, where she carefully spells out that she'll have succeeded in becoming a "cosplaycat criminal", and this is after the audience has given up and stopped watching Danganronpa. That's information only the students get to hear. The choice of the word "criminal" implies that what she did was something unlawful and illegal; and kidnapping, as well as assisted/forced murder would obviously fall under that category.
 
That's why I said the business of kidnapping and making those tapes isn't to convince the participants; it's to convince the audience that it's actually okay to support the show. In the off chance that the participants discover they're part of some big ploy or if someone starts questioning the ethical ramifications of high schoolers murdering each other, they can just pop up those tapes to say "it's okay guys they agreed to it anyway. See ya in Danganronpa 54."

Shuichi notices it in Tsumugi's choice of words during the epilogue, where she carefully spells out that she'll have succeeded in becoming a "cosplaycat criminal", and this is after the audience has given up and stopped watching Danganronpa. That's information only the students get to hear. The choice of the word "criminal" implies that what she did was something unlawful and illegal; and kidnapping, as well as assisted/forced murder would obviously fall under that category.

I saw the "criminal" as she's a copycat cosplayer and therefore a criminal / scum in that community. Because her characters weren't authentic enough. Not that she's actually a criminal.
 

CrazyDude

Member
That's why I said the business of kidnapping and making those tapes isn't to convince the participants; it's to convince the audience that it's actually okay to support the show. In the off chance that the participants discover they're part of some big ploy or if someone starts questioning the ethical ramifications of high schoolers murdering each other, they can just pop up those tapes to say "it's okay guys they agreed to it anyway. See ya in Danganronpa 54."

I don't think 53 seasons they really need to convince the audience anymore. These are the kind of things the audience needs to be convinced of in the first few seasons of the show. The fact that Kaede was kidnapped and people did nothing to help kind of prove that the public supports the show in some way.

Also Tsumugi isn't really the mastermind of the whole thing though, it's the Danganronpa team that is the one who are in charge. She is pretty much the creative force of the whole show. So when she says Cosplaycat criminal, I felt that meant more that this kind of game might have happened in real life in a non show way.
 

NotLiquid

Member
I saw the "criminal" as she's a copycat cosplayer and therefore a criminal / scum in that community. Because her characters weren't authentic enough. Not that she's actually a criminal.

That wouldn't make sense. She's the "Ultimate Cosplayer", and her backstory is that she dislikes how cosplay has been diluted into simply wearing uniforms rather than honoring characters. If anything she's so authentic that she managed to turn the entire killing game into one big cosplay, and the entire trial proved how authentic she was. Plus the play on words is a pun on "copycat criminal", someone who replicates someone else's crimes and misdeeds.

Kinda forgot to address this point as well;

I suspect the participants often want out once they lose their memories (which is why they record them, to prove the truth), which fuels the killing game even more. It's just like in DR1. They forgot that they WANTED to be sheltered in the academy, and only when they didn't understand, they panicked and tried to get out.

The reason it made sense in DR1 for everyone to want to be locked in is because a) the shelter wasn't a "killing game" at that point, and b) the shelter was only intended to house the students until the outside world became safe. Junko wasn't going to let anyone leave the academy ever though, and the characters after 2 years of lost memories felt there was enough ambiguity about the state of the outside world where they'd rather just leave the thing behind. Even if they had agreed to it at one point, they had all the reason to not agree to it anymore after all the circumstances changed.

That's kinda very different from the characters of V3 agreeing to kill each other for fun and profit, and lest we forget, even throughout the game, as well as the Chapter 6 investigation, Tsumugi makes it a point to fuel everyone with red herrings to give everyone a false impression that V3 was going to rehash DR1's twists, when in reality the game turns out to be way more apprehensive about them. Things like "Kaede has a twin sister", "we were students of Hope's Peak", and yes, even "we all agreed to this" could potentially fall into one of many things the game tries to convince you it's going back to redo, but ultimately doesn't. That thread of ambiguity is the one thing Danganronpa games have been wholly consistent about; the implication that the world itself may not in as irrevocable of a state as the mastermind may imply - until a lot of the supplemental material just kinda undid all of that anyway but I can't imagine V3 is going to be getting the same kind of treatment.

I don't think 53 seasons they really need to convince the audience anymore. These are the kind of things the audience needs to be convinced of in the first few seasons of the show. The fact that Kaede was kidnapped and people did nothing to help kind of prove that the public supports the show in some way.

You do have a point that a world saturated by Danganronpa may be jaded enough to not care, and that may be why no one cared about Kaede being kidnapped (even though you can probably find real life parallels to make this a believable situation regardless of the show's impact). It's an interesting point I haven't considered. Having said that, considering V3 manages to make a point about the characters of that season "changing the world", I feel like the risk had to have always been there for the showrunners that the audience may come to grow a conscience, and as such need to have damage control ready at all times. The world may not change, but like any big enterprise, they need to have a contingency in the case that it does.
 

CrazyDude

Member
That wouldn't make sense. She's the "Ultimate Cosplayer", and her backstory is that she dislikes how cosplay has been diluted into simply wearing uniforms rather than honoring characters. If anything she's so authentic that she managed to turn the entire killing game into one big cosplay, and the entire trial proved how authentic she was. Plus the play on words is a pun on "copycat criminal", someone who replicates someone else's crimes and misdeeds.

Kinda forgot to address this point as well;



The reason it made sense in DR1 for everyone to want to be locked in is because a) the shelter wasn't a "killing game" at that point, and b) the shelter was only intended to house the students until the outside world became safe. Junko wasn't going to let anyone leave the academy ever though, and the characters after 2 years of lost memories felt there was enough ambiguity about the state of the outside world where they'd rather just leave the thing behind. Even if they had agreed to it at one point, they had all the reason to not agree to it anymore after all the circumstances changed.

That's kinda very different from the characters of V3 agreeing to kill each other for fun and profit, and lest we forget, even throughout the game, as well as the Chapter 6 investigation, Tsumugi makes it a point to fuel everyone with red herrings to give everyone a false impression that V3 was going to rehash DR1's twists, when in reality the game turns out to be way more apprehensive about them. Things like "Kaede has a twin sister", "we were students of Hope's Peak", and yes, even "we all agreed to this" could potentially fall into one of many things the game tries to convince you it's going back to redo, but ultimately doesn't. That thread of ambiguity is the one thing Danganronpa games have been wholly consistent about; the implication that the world itself may not in as irrevocable of a state as the mastermind may imply - until a lot of the supplemental material just kinda undid all of that anyway but I can't imagine V3 is going to be getting the same kind of treatment.
I don't think it's hard to believe people would sign up for a killing game for the fame and glory. That is basically what happened with Colosseum fights, it started as something people were forced into doing(slave), but later ended being something freemen volunteered to do.
 

NSESN

Member
I think if there is one thing I learned with this game is to not take fiction works that seriously. Of course almost no fan get to the point the game shows but just the fact that the ending was so divisive and the overall hate the anime gets shows to me that large part of the fanbase wasn't prepared to developments that weren't of their liking.

The anime still isn't good, but that doesn't mean the rest of the hope's peak arc is retroactively bad because of it. The same way DRV3 doesn't change anything about it because it is treating the arc like fiction.
 

NotLiquid

Member
I don't think it's hard to believe people would sign up for a killing game for the fame and glory. That is basically what happened with Colosseum fights, it started as something people were forced into doing(slave), but later ended being something freemen volunteered to do.

It's obviously not impossible but in the context of the plot and what the game shows us it feels highly improbable, especially when the crux of the entire twist is built on the hypocrisy of voyeurism.
 
That wouldn't make sense. She's the "Ultimate Cosplayer", and her backstory is that she dislikes how cosplay has been diluted into simply wearing uniforms rather than honoring characters. If anything she's so authentic that she managed to turn the entire killing game into one big cosplay, and the entire trial proved how authentic she was. Plus the play on words is a pun on "copycat criminal", someone who replicates someone else's crimes and misdeeds.

Kinda forgot to address this point as well;



The reason it made sense in DR1 for everyone to want to be locked in is because a) the shelter wasn't a "killing game" at that point, and b) the shelter was only intended to house the students until the outside world became safe. Junko wasn't going to let anyone leave the academy ever though, and the characters after 2 years of lost memories felt there was enough ambiguity about the state of the outside world where they'd rather just leave the thing behind. Even if they had agreed to it at one point, they had all the reason to not agree to it anymore after all the circumstances changed.

That's kinda very different from the characters of V3 agreeing to kill each other for fun and profit, and lest we forget, even throughout the game, as well as the Chapter 6 investigation, Tsumugi makes it a point to fuel everyone with red herrings to give everyone a false impression that V3 was going to rehash DR1's twists, when in reality the game turns out to be way more apprehensive about them. Things like "Kaede has a twin sister", "we were students of Hope's Peak", and yes, even "we all agreed to this" could potentially fall into one of many things the game tries to convince you it's going back to redo, but ultimately doesn't. That thread of ambiguity is the one thing Danganronpa games have been wholly consistent about; the implication that the world itself may not in as irrevocable of a state as the mastermind may imply - until a lot of the supplemental material just kinda undid all of that anyway but I can't imagine V3 is going to be getting the same kind of treatment.



You do have a point that a world saturated by Danganronpa may be jaded enough to not care, and that may be why no one cared about Kaede being kidnapped (even though you can probably find real life parallels to make this a believable situation regardless of the show's impact). It's an interesting point I haven't considered. Having said that, considering V3 manages to make a point about the characters of that season "changing the world", I feel like the risk had to have always been there for the showrunners that the audience may come to grow a conscience, and as such need to have damage control ready at all times. The world may not change, but like any big enterprise, they need to have a contingency in the case that it does.

My point is, in regards to DR1, that they wanted to be stuck in Hope's Peak. But when they had their memories taken and they forgot why, they panicked. They had no idea about the world outside and how they ended up where they were st that moment. It has nothing to do with Junko.

The same thing applies here. They wanted to be on the killing game show, but when they lost their memories and forgot WHY they were there in the first place, they panicked. Wouldn't you, if you were shoved into a killing game you had no memory of agreeing to be a part of? You'd want out, which is what happened here.

If they had remembered, I bet you anything they would have willingly killed each other. But then it's not as entertaining to the viewer, cause the mystery on the behalf of the players is gone.
 

PK Gaming

Member
The audition tapes hold a lot of power in the narrative. Without them, the characters are simply victims which while sad, is also boring. The audition tapes give the characters accountability and it's one of the reasons why we're so fucking slammed by the twist, because the characters themselves feel betrayed... by themselves. It's unique, it's insane, it's depressing, it's DanganRonpa. It felt like Kodaka was trying to have his cake and eat it too. "Hey these kids might have loved DanganRonpa, but they weren't crazy enough to willingly sign themselves up! Maybe."

Also if we're going to subscribe to occam's razor, then Kaede and Shuichi introducing themselves with their real names in the prologue is straight up a plot hole. No real point in bringing it up.
 

Viale

Member
I don't think it's hard to believe people would sign up for a killing game for the fame and glory. That is basically what happened with Colosseum fights, it started as something people were forced into doing(slave), but later ended being something freemen volunteered to do.

The notion of someone signing up isn't super weird necessarily, the prologue is very strange though once you take into context the idea that they did it willingly. Kaede and Rentaro slowly figure it out, but it didn't look like they were filled with excitement, and it seems strange that of these 16 people who are such super fans and ready to throw their lives away for this show, only Rentaro is the one to figure out immediately that it's a killing game because of the amount of people and the setting. I feel like super fans would all have had that thought go through their mind instantly upon seeing the situation.
 

Vamphuntr

Member
The audition tapes hold a lot of power in the narrative. Without them, the characters are simply victims which while sad, is also boring. The audition tapes give the characters accountability and it's one of the reasons why we're so fucking slammed by the twist, because the characters themselves feel betrayed... by themselves. It's unique, it's insane, it's depressing, it's DanganRonpa. It felt like Kodaka was trying to have his cake and eat it too. "Hey these kids might have loved DanganRonpa, but they weren't crazy enough to willingly sign themselves up! Maybe."

Also if we're going to subscribe to occam's razor, then Kaede and Shuichi introducing themselves with their real names in the prologue is straight up a plot hole. No real point in bringing it up.

It's so unique they've used the tapes too in DR1 :) . They all believed they were held there against their will but they had all agreed on tape to lock themselves up there.

I remember someone saying in this thread that it was a missed opportunity to not have Kyo survive so that they would live with a serial killer and it would be a unique opportunity . It's like Genocide Jill never happened.

It makes the meta ending and reveal much more funny. 53 indeed.

It's a pretty good thing to shake things up.
 

Steel

Banned
The notion of someone signing up isn't super weird necessarily, the prologue is very strange though once you take into context the idea that they did it willingly. Kaede and Rentaro slowly figure it out, but it didn't look like they were filled with excitement, and it seems strange that of these 16 people who are such super fans and ready to throw their lives away for this show, only Rentaro is the one to figure out immediately that it's a killing game because of the amount of people and the setting. I feel like super fans would all have had that thought go through their mind instantly upon seeing the situation.

It is weird that Rantaro simultaneously seems to know it's a killing game and doesn't know who's setting up the killing game in the prologue.
 

GoldStarz

Member
The notion of someone signing up isn't super weird necessarily, the prologue is very strange though once you take into context the idea that they did it willingly. Kaede and Rentaro slowly figure it out, but it didn't look like they were filled with excitement, and it seems strange that of these 16 people who are such super fans and ready to throw their lives away for this show, only Rentaro is the one to figure out immediately that it's a killing game because of the amount of people and the setting. I feel like super fans would all have had that thought go through their mind instantly upon seeing the situation.

Because they're in the game by that point.
 
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