KO Traveling Hobo
Member
The original Emil wasn't made to fight the aliums. He created his clones to help him fight the aliens.
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NieR: Automata Spoiler Thread
- Thread starter BRSxIgnition
- Start date
The original Emil wasn't made to fight the aliums. He created his clones to help him fight the aliens.
DrunkShogun
Member
Is this artbook limited to a special edition or Japanese only. Doesn't seem to have an English version from the quick search I've done.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
No, emil was a human weapon who was created way before humans knew about aliens. He just repurposed himself to fight them off.
Because they were still programmed to defeat the enemy. They were building it as a cannon as they were evolving, but then along the way decided that it's pointless and repurposed it into an orbital launcher for their ark.
The person who created yorha also wants to make sure no information is able to leak out. If the only link to the human server on the moon is destroyed, who can verify it? The one androids will just have no choice but to keep believing it
Do note that yorha stations are space stations and not on the moon.
Thr backdoor was always open with the intention of the machines knowing about it, but they aren't necessarily cooperating. The machines just didn't attack them earlier because they posed no danger and as seen they really like observing and messing with the androids. They only activated because yorha went to all out war mode.
Yeah most probably backups, but there's some outer lore stuff about how adam got partially absorbed into 9s through repeated hacking that is kinda... Eh.
The point is that they are backed up personalities and they offered 9s amnesty is because they no longer really had a reason for malice. The whole of D is showing the machines and 9s finally realising the pointlessness of this war, and instead of staying in this world tied to conflict they chose to either fly through the stars or land somewhere else to start anew.
Remembrance
Member
Has anyone figured out the significance of the Cruel Oath weapon story?
Considering that it's one of your starting weapons, but the story doesn't seem to correspond to anything...
Considering that it's one of your starting weapons, but the story doesn't seem to correspond to anything...
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
I mean it's 9s's multiple deaths.
Pretty big Gankutsuou vibes from Adam B, I love it.
Remembrance
Member
That's Cruel Blood Oath. Cruel Oath is 9S's starting sword and had the story about the seven boys where one was a traitor.
I mean, you could say it's about 9S dying a lot, but he wasn't killing himself. And why seven?
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Brah it's literally 2B talking about her relationship with 9S
Cruel oath.
Not cruel blood oath.
It's not that there's a traitor, it's more that they keep allowing themselves to get killed just to be with 2B, but each life wouldn't know sure to the memory wipe.
I'm not convinced Cruel Blood Oath is about them at all. Its parallel is Virtuous Treaty, and it makes no sense for either 2B or 9S to communicate like this:
The idea is that they complement each other and Virtuous Treaty will tell you what the end of Cruel Blood Oath means straight up. I think it's just a coincidence, to be honest.
The idea is that they complement each other and Virtuous Treaty will tell you what the end of Cruel Blood Oath means straight up. I think it's just a coincidence, to be honest.
hydrophilic attack
Member
The scene which you cannot use the share button on in the DLC sure was something
Remembrance
Member
Now that I think about it, there are a few things going on here.
When you got this sword, you were just confronting (across end credits, even) the paradox of machines having "brothers". And then this sword tells you about boys who considered each other brothers despite not being related by blood.
A fortune teller shows up. 6O dismissed her fortune reading back in route A, then got burned by it. The boys also met with tragedy when they disregarded their fortune teller's warning. In terms of the actual plot I guess you have A2 dropping in to warn of betrayal early on, which is disregarded with dire consequences.
The laughing survivor at the end with blood on his hands is clearly mirroring 9S at the end.
Overall, this might just be a stereotypical "cursed sword" legend (except it forgets to actually mention the sword) with a few details dropped in to mirror the story.
Ah, alright. I think I should probably read up on Nier Gestalt to refresh my memories a bit.
So they finished building the cannon before they realized humans were dead? I'm assuming so since, as you mentioned, the network were just pretty much toying with Yorha, who was their only real enemy. I felt the resistance was more concerned with just surviving as opposed to fighting the machines. Then again, they didn't delve too deep into the resistance workings.
I guess I can understand the reasoning behind leaving a backdoor open, but it just seems extremely short-sighted on the part of the creator. I mean having all the lives of the Yorha androids within the palms of the enemy seems pretty stupid, and the network might've used them against the resistance. Having the 2E units to kill any android who learned the truth seemed like enough.
Yeah, that makes sense, but why leave Earth to find someplace else? Did they just not want to fight the resistance anymore?
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
I don't know when they repurposed it, but even after learning the humans are dead they still know there's a human thing on the moon so they're still gonna try to destroy it. Presumably.
I mean the backdoor had to be opened for the plan. YorHa needed to be gone entirely as an organisation. Whether or not it is necessary is debatable, but it is presented as the safest bet. There's an out-of-game lore that goes more in-depth into why the creator wants to make sure all Yorha are dead, but that's how it's presented in game.
Also all the E models in the game are pretty much emotionally broken from having to kill lol. I don't think it's a viable long term plan.
And yeah, the machines left earth because they want to start anew.
I mean the backdoor had to be opened for the plan. YorHa needed to be gone entirely as an organisation. Whether or not it is necessary is debatable, but it is presented as the safest bet. There's an out-of-game lore that goes more in-depth into why the creator wants to make sure all Yorha are dead, but that's how it's presented in game.
Also all the E models in the game are pretty much emotionally broken from having to kill lol. I don't think it's a viable long term plan.
And yeah, the machines left earth because they want to start anew.
Just finished. Confused re: ending A and B and the fate of 9s. His mind goes into the machines and then.....nothing comes of it? Starting C I was half expecting the 9S we played as to be another "fresh" 9S or somethinng and 9s being in the network to come into play in a major way. So they just popped him out of the machines and didn't explore that angle?
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
The whole of B was him going into machines so I'm guessing it's no big thing? I thought it was more like him backing up to nearby harddrives instead of the bunker cloud.
Remembrance
Member
I think it's just one more step in breaking down his discrimination against machines.
First, "an android? No, this is a machine!" The irony being that 9S can never understand how ridiculous that sounds from a human perspective.
Next, "but you still don't have a heart." Pascal refrains from pointing out the obvious that androids also have no hearts.
Next, the talk with Adam in the copied city.
Next, he pops up out of nowhere in the factory as a machine.
Next, he backs himself up over multiplexed machines and comes out reconstituted as himself. Still doesn't get it.
And finally he realizes that he is a machine core. I think some time after replacing his arm with a machine arm he finally managed to process that in the last moments in ending D.
avrophantasm
Member
Well, each weapon is associated with a picture that helps clue into what they're alluding to. Cruel Oath actually has an image of 9S and 2B featured on it, so it looks like they wanted the weapon story to refer to their predicament. (The 9S and 2B image is shared with Virtuous Contract, which is obviously from 2B's POV) The main theme of the story is underhanded betrayal...but the only instance of backstabbing I can think of concerning 9S has to do with his predecessor, #9. It could be a reference to how #9 was willing to kill everyone he knew and loved just to give himself a cause worth dying for since he hated being alive, and how he used his cunning to achieve that goal.
#9 was one of the main people responsible for making YoRHA the cruel organization it is, if not the most important one. He designed the Logic Virus Backdoor and the YoRHa android producing process. And no doubt the secretive nature of YoRHA has caused 9S more than his fair share of grief. It could be that the brothers are 9S and the killer is #9.
Looks like the weapon story was originally in katakana? It's sometimes used to denote robotic speech and gets rendered in all caps.
Well, the black boxes are made of Machine Lifeform cores. They used to be their own being and all. Perhaps this spiral of life and death has been going on since even before 2B and 9S were YoRHa androids?
Remembrance
Member
I keep seeing these references to characters from supplemental material. I assume it's all up on nier2.com, but I can never find anything on that site.
And yet another character made to reinforce the theme of having something to fight for. Interesting, thanks.
Remembrance
Member
No one has really commented on the in-your-face Arthur C. Clarke reference once you hit ending D. Calling your ending "Childhood's End" is almost as blatant as calling it "2001: A Space Odyssey". So what is Yoko Taro getting at by invoking one of the most famous classic SF novels?
For one thing, the novel is about the human race going extinct, giving rise to a new generation of children that becomes... as gods. They destroy the Earth and ascend to a higher plane of existence. Science had yet to reach space at the time of writing, so of course this was just one of many visions of how the human race would finally depart the planet.
But the humans of Nier died out unceremoniously long ago, and by ending D the androids, the children mankind made, have also more-or-less wiped themselves out. Mankind's "children" end up being the machines, a fatally flawed imitation of humanity, who nevertheless finally reach the stars that the human race denied itself.
The machines undermined themselves by design and ended up trapped in cycles of repeating mankind's failures, though the actual human race is no less guilty of failing to learn from its mistakes. And, in the end, they transcend the failures of this world to find a new start, where we could not. What does that say about humanity?
(What it says about humanity might have to do with original sin, which this game keeps invoking. It also claims that machines are without sin, but leaves it up for debate whether that's actually true.)
For one thing, the novel is about the human race going extinct, giving rise to a new generation of children that becomes... as gods. They destroy the Earth and ascend to a higher plane of existence. Science had yet to reach space at the time of writing, so of course this was just one of many visions of how the human race would finally depart the planet.
But the humans of Nier died out unceremoniously long ago, and by ending D the androids, the children mankind made, have also more-or-less wiped themselves out. Mankind's "children" end up being the machines, a fatally flawed imitation of humanity, who nevertheless finally reach the stars that the human race denied itself.
The machines undermined themselves by design and ended up trapped in cycles of repeating mankind's failures, though the actual human race is no less guilty of failing to learn from its mistakes. And, in the end, they transcend the failures of this world to find a new start, where we could not. What does that say about humanity?
(What it says about humanity might have to do with original sin, which this game keeps invoking. It also claims that machines are without sin, but leaves it up for debate whether that's actually true.)
I've got a comprehensive Nier Automata lore/side material guide on r/nier now
https://www.reddit.com/r/nier/wiki/lore
There is pretty much everything that we got translated from different sources plus a suggested reading order at the end of the page.
this site is a mess to navigate and is no longer a single translation source for nier lore. There are quite a lot of people willing to translate from japanese on reddit and all recent translations come mostly from them.
hydrophilic attack
Member
Wow, this is great. Thanks for sharing and putting it together
Charles Alan Ratliff
Member
Thanks! In the moment while playing I thought there was a possibility it would erase all my save data, so I made sure not to give up. After finishing it and reaching that prompt, however, I started to doubt that's what would happen and figured you just had to do it again or something.
Remembrance
Member
Memory Cage and Memory Thorn are an amazing conceit, although splitting the story across the two books like that feels like a cruel move. I had to skim the two stories because of the radically different translation styles, but the idea got through anyway.
And is the strategy guide really written in character? I saw some excerpts to suggest that, but it's not clear.
as far as I understand only comments to in-game chapters are written from the character's perspective.
Just got Ending C/D/E tonight. Man I liked this game a lot.
Probably will discuss more things later.
I really liked the way the ending of Route C ended up, was pretty cool.
Also another random thing...probably only negative thing I can think of honestly right now is that I wish I didn't have to play as 9S so much.
Probably will discuss more things later.
I really liked the way the ending of Route C ended up, was pretty cool.
Also another random thing...probably only negative thing I can think of honestly right now is that I wish I didn't have to play as 9S so much.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Hmm, they could streamline B a bit, but in a way this story is quite a bit about 9S. You only really get into the existential crisis sidequests that mirrors what he has to deal with in C when you play B.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Fair enough. It's a pretty divisive point for the fanbase.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
The pods specifically mentioned that tgey gotball their memories back.
The concert... complicates things a bit if you want to read up on it.
The concert... complicates things a bit if you want to read up on it.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Read this first knowing that yoko taro sold and released the script a full 2 weeks before the concert recital.
https://pastebin.com/c33Vha00
Then read this knowing this is what is shown in the recital.
http://nier2.com/blog/2017/05/07/nierautomata-concert-evening-show-may-5th/
Then imagine how the fanbase felt for 2 weeks.
The reddit wiki has a pretty good collection of lore stuff.
https://www.reddit.com/r/nier/wiki/lore#wiki_recital_drama
Remembrance
Member
I didn't actually think through why ending C happened the way it did until just now.
A2 obviously doesn't know how to remove a virus, so she had to destroy the tower to destroy the virus with it. She could save 9S but not herself because Pod 153 was still incapacitated by 9S's last command, leaving only Pod 042 to carry someone to safety. That's a whole other layer of tragedy.
Except ending E only happens because everyone died between C and E. I guess we have to assume 9S died anyway despite being carried to safety and the virus being destroyed.
...And we immediately see in ending E that all three versions of each pod can coexist and carry stuff at the same time, which seems to undercut some of that tragedy.
I just heard 042 in Japanese for the first time and finally realized that he was the deep-voiced guy in the concert. Seeing it live at the time I imagined he was "voice of God" or something like that.
A2 obviously doesn't know how to remove a virus, so she had to destroy the tower to destroy the virus with it. She could save 9S but not herself because Pod 153 was still incapacitated by 9S's last command, leaving only Pod 042 to carry someone to safety. That's a whole other layer of tragedy.
Except ending E only happens because everyone died between C and E. I guess we have to assume 9S died anyway despite being carried to safety and the virus being destroyed.
...And we immediately see in ending E that all three versions of each pod can coexist and carry stuff at the same time, which seems to undercut some of that tragedy.
I just heard 042 in Japanese for the first time and finally realized that he was the deep-voiced guy in the concert. Seeing it live at the time I imagined he was "voice of God" or something like that.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
I've always assumed that the pillar of light was the machine network.
Just finished the game and i really got to thank all the poor game saves consumed in order to help me finish it
I wasn't strong enough to send help just yet
I feel like shit.
I've spent almost twenty minutes thinking of nice words to help people they way they did for me and then i've found out about the deleting save part. I couldn't do it. I still got some endings to do
The game was wonderful though, it's going to take a while to recover from this one @-@
I wasn't strong enough to send help just yet
I feel like shit.
I've spent almost twenty minutes thinking of nice words to help people they way they did for me and then i've found out about the deleting save part. I couldn't do it. I still got some endings to do
The game was wonderful though, it's going to take a while to recover from this one @-@
Remembrance
Member
I've spent almost twenty minutes thinking of nice words to help people they way they did for me and then i've found out about the deleting save part. I couldn't do it. I still got some endings to do
The game is wonderfully consistent in never judging you for your choices, in both words and consequences. Any rationalizing you make has to be something you will live with, because the game doesn't care.
You even get to force NPCs to make agonizing choices and then tell them they have to live with their reasons. How many games let you turn the tables on the game itself like that?
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Yeah, it's awesome!
It didn't make me feel broken inside like undertale but I did like the way choices were handled because the tone got way more mature tha Ut
I also like how the game used the violence... there are a lot of scenes that would be nonsensical and bad anume level if we got them out of context, but in game everything was there for a reason ( though ending D could've been handled better, c'mon, nines fell over his own sword?)
It's just that the help part made me feel like there ARE good people out there willing to sacrifice their gametime hours for me(though i do know you can backup the saves)
I'll try it again once i finish more stuffs :/
Now i'm gonna read all these files because i need more nier @-@
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Nines fell onto 2B's sword, which was handed over to A2 by 2B.
My bad, when i wrote this i was still waking up... what i meant was that the way the scene was handled that was awkward, there could have been a better way to animate that :/
Falling over a sword can look a bit stupid y'know
Yup, i understand the action and why it had to be that way, it just felt a bit awkward seeing it in the game because of the way it was animated... the problem it's the way how he fell, the angle was a bit awkward for me. But i know i'm nitpicking a bit
I didn't have a problem with the flailing part, it was kinda awesome and it made more sense to me as an android death than A2's peaceful fall. It showed how ok she was with dying that way, while 9S felt a bit pathetic and desperate, especially considering he had just completed the goals he set for himself. It was really fitting and painful to watch
avrophantasm
Member
Yup, i understand the action and why it had to be that way, it just felt a bit awkward seeing it in the game because of the way it was animated... the problem it's the way how he fell, the angle was a bit awkward for me. But i know i'm nitpicking a bit
I didn't have a problem with the flailing part, it was kinda awesome and it made more sense to me as an android death than A2's peaceful fall. It showed how ok she was with dying that way, while 9S felt a bit pathetic and desperate, especially considering he had just completed the goals he set for himself. It was really fitting and painful to watch
I agree. The angle in which he fell on it was a bit weird/unnatural, but that would be something that would be in the cutscene director's hands. Personally, I felt that they've done a great job so far, so I guess I couldn't be too mad about it.
The flailing puts route D over C for me. (Even though C was great, too) 9S was so obsessed with what he felt his purpose was that he was blind to things ending without violence. And he paid the price; his end was his own doing. There aren't many creators that have the guts to do that to their protagonists, let alone in the gaming sphere.
So the dual erotic asphyxiation/grinding wasn't enough for him? Greedy boy.
You want to get ****ed by 2B.
I can't complain much about this game, aside from the girls' outfits(can't take ending A seriously when 2b's skirt is half rip apart) and self destruct my only issue was the animation on that scene, actually(as far as i remember, at least)
And 9s was greedy, you guys DID see that stabbing 2b scene,right? That was meant to have some sexual innuendo(another awesome scene, dammit)
avrophantasm
Member
Ultimadrago
Member
Before I knew who Emil really was, I just thought, "Man, that face is ugly!"
Now after I watched a summary on their past and finished most of their quests in Automata before beating the game (Finding the Lunar Tears, Stealing their items for a fight, etc.), I just want to hug them! ;__;
I played in the Japanese dub, so that's what I know them by and they are too adorable. Hell, their store song is too adorable! Their presence was easily one of the better parts of Automata (and about the best part of the optional content) and I didn't even play the original Nier. Crazy.
Now after I watched a summary on their past and finished most of their quests in Automata before beating the game (Finding the Lunar Tears, Stealing their items for a fight, etc.), I just want to hug them! ;__;
I played in the Japanese dub, so that's what I know them by and they are too adorable. Hell, their store song is too adorable! Their presence was easily one of the better parts of Automata (and about the best part of the optional content) and I didn't even play the original Nier. Crazy.
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