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[Astral]

Anyone figure out a way to make the game not too easy when replaying it on your current file? I was thinking of unequipping all chips and weapons in addition to playing on hard but that doesn't sound very fun.

 

[How About No]

What if the moon is just a giant Emil

What if the data server on the moon was just a farce as well and the moon itself is the remnants of humanity





HEY THERE FRIENDO

 

[KO Traveling Hobo]

At least Emil would be safe in outer space. Mostly. Assuming no more giant spacecannons are built.

 

[chrono01]

Anyone figure out a way to make the game not too easy when replaying it on your current file? I was thinking of unequipping all chips and weapons in addition to playing on hard but that doesn't sound very fun.

I'm working through my "primary" save right now, for 100%. When I do decide to replay the entire thing (which will likely be sooner rather than later), I'd just create a new save file so I can begin everything from scratch, as well as "offer" it to other people when I complete it (while still having access to my 100% file for eventual/possible DLC add-on's and such).

 

[spiritfox]

I feel like I'm missing out on a number of themes without a good background on philosophy.

 

[DreamedLint]

Why does Emil drive so fast?

Because he's running from the bad thoughts.

 

[Astral]

I'm working through my "primary" save right now, for 100%. When I do decide to replay the entire thing (which will likely be sooner rather than later), I'd just create a new save file so I can begin everything from scratch, as well as "offer" it to other people when I complete it (while still having access to my 100% file for eventual/possible DLC add-on's and such).

Damn I don't wanna do that because I love my upgraded weapons so much. One or two shotting horses of enemies I couldn't care less about. But killing bosses too quickly? Nah fam.

 

[Jintor]

This conversation just reminds me how poignant it is to rob, beat, and murder one of the most selfless, tragic, and beloved characters in the Taroverse while breaking him emotionally in the process for, like, some shitty clothing accessories, a weapon, and some text. And all of this is completely out of character for the protagonists. It's just pure, vile villainy on the part of the player because it's a videogame and you gotta kill and get all the things.

It's such a perfectly Taro design.

Honestly, I started doing the quest and then I read up on what I needed to do and said, nah. I'm good.

I didn't even play or watch the original Nier. I just don't want to do it.

 

[How About No]

Why does Emil drive so fast?

Because he's running from the bad thoughts.

But he always ends up right back where he was

 

[chrono01]

Damn I don't wanna do that because I love my upgraded weapons so much. One or two shotting horses of enemies I couldn't care less about. But killing bosses too quickly? Nah fam.

Haha, I can understand that.

Personally, I don't really get a lot of satisfaction out of utterly demolishing bosses. I prefer the back-and-forth struggle as it feels a lot more rewarding when you win, even if you've already cleared the encounter.

That being said, it's nice feeling like a God too when you go back for a re-match.

 

[Yabberwocky]

This conversation just reminds me how poignant it is to rob, beat, and murder one of the most selfless, tragic, and beloved characters in the Taroverse while breaking him emotionally in the process for, like, some shitty clothing accessories, a weapon, and some text. And all of this is completely out of character for the protagonists. It's just pure, vile villainy on the part of the player because it's a videogame and you gotta kill and get all the things.

It's such a perfectly Taro design.

Honestly, I started doing the quest and then I read up on what I needed to do and said, nah. I'm good.

I didn't even play or watch the original Nier. I just don't want to do it.

Lawd, picking up Emil's weapon for full weapon completion and his two boss fights were one of the few trophies I had left, and I hadn't realized the extent of what would happen to Emil. I still feel awful about one of the endings that required the annihilation of Pascal's Village. After I was done, I sat there going, 'why the fuck did I do that? That was horrible. That was pointless. Was it worth it just to pick up just a few bits of text for an ending?' (Oh, god, let alone the ending with the kids...)

Do I buy the trophies, and leave my bb Emil alone? Do I leave the game un-Platinum'd? Do I go through with it for the trophies, and roll back my save so like a hypocrite so I can pretend I never did those terrible things to Emil? (Even though the trophy screengrabs would know what I'd done...) Before I realized what would happen to Emil, I'd already collected all the other weapons and levelled all of them up. My inner completionist is currently deeply conflicted with my conscience.

Urgh, I don't think I could stand killing Emil. Taro, enjoy your mic-drop.

 

[OniBarubary]

But he always ends up right back where he was

Daaaaaaaaawwwwwwwwww

 

[Astrael]

Been lurking in this thread awhile, just absorbing all these amazing theories and connections. Anyways, since NieR Automata hasn't let me sleep normally for a week now since I finished ending E, I have a random musing here, regarding the Game Dev Level 1-3 questline that has been in the back of my mind:

The game dev machine sets up at the tower of TVs in the Amusement Park basement that most people have called a Persona 4 reference, but there's also another much more interesting visual reference possible: Cowboy Bebop Episode 23 "Brain Scratch". The one about the transhumanist death cult SCRATCH that spreads the word of enlightenment through a hyponotizing video game, which effectively takes a player's consciousness data and turns it into computer data. The cult's goal is for people to continue living as electrons outside of their body.
I love this episode because Ein is the one who ends up hacking the cult because it's too hard even for Ed and saves the day lol. The connection to that episode only hit me just today with how much it references.

The game dev machine itself is somewhat intriguing (with all the subtext heavy sidequests I wanted to know where this one tied in) though I haven't quite figured out where it fits so I have a few ideas kicking around. Two of the cables he asks you to collect have real-world analogs: tri/3-color = composite and 5-color = component, which can refer to the evolution of gaming visual fidelity (composite generally picked up in SNES/Genesis era and component was a 6th gen console focus). I like how he then stops "at the top of his game" parallel to when a lot of console game devs would start struggling with the move to HD consoles. But it might just be less on-the-nose and be a simple comment about game design stagnation as systems become more advanced, or a simple mirror to the staggered evolution of the machine lifeforms.

I dunno though, just some ideas. BTW, I love that it's Pascal that quotes and delivers the critique of Nietzsche lol.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Why did Emil head quit fighting the war and become a merchant anyways lol.

Also anyone else disappointed that there was no night time? After playing a lot of zelda I kinda want a giant Emil moon to come up.

Moon size Emil vs independence day style alien motherships.

No night was part of the story.

 

[A-V-B]

BTW, how many people here noticed the shut-in kid in the village was still alive after the attack? I accidentally killed him while I was at his door

 

[Dreams-Visions]

My personal theory is that the machine lifeforms all have big bowling ball coverings for heads because the aliens fought Emil and assumed he was the dominant species on the planet and based them on him.

I mean that's sort of what was said in the game. Machine lifeform heads being spheres is because of their experiences against Emil. That was explicitly stated somewhere.

 

[Astrael]

BTW, how many people here noticed the shut-in kid in the village was still alive after the attack? I accidentally killed him while I was at his door

I did last night, and I accidentally killed him too Luckily he respawns. Is he still alive if you do the final subquest there with 9S before the village goes crazy? I missed it because I did A2's story straight through before switching to 9S, so the village was already toast before I had the chance. Still, hard not to laugh that the only survivor is the one who locked himself in his room.

 

[DreamedLint]

I did last night, and I accidentally killed him too Luckily he respawns. Is he still alive if you do the final subquest there with 9S before the village goes crazy? I missed it because I did A2's story straight through before switching to 9S, so the village was already toast before I had the chance. Still, hard not to laugh that the only survivor is the one who locked himself in his room.

It wouldn't let me hack the door.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

I mean that's sort of what was said in the game. Machine lifeform heads being spheres is because of their experiences against Emil. That was explicitly stated somewhere.

Huh, I never saw that. All I saw was the unit data often talked about the machines being similar to toys or people, and the artwork at the end of the memories quest showing that Emil fought the aliens before they used machines.

 

[Jiraiza]

Anyone figure out a way to make the game not too easy when replaying it on your current file? I was thinking of unequipping all chips and weapons in addition to playing on hard but that doesn't sound very fun.

Making a new file and beating the game without leveling as much as possible seems to be the way to go.

 

[KO Traveling Hobo]

Honestly, I started doing the quest and then I read up on what I needed to do and said, nah. I'm good.

I didn't even play or watch the original Nier. I just don't want to do it.

Lawd, picking up Emil's weapon for full weapon completion and his two boss fights were one of the few trophies I had left, and I hadn't realized the extent of what would happen to Emil. I still feel awful about one of the endings that required the annihilation of Pascal's Village. After I was done, I sat there going, 'why the fuck did I do that? That was horrible. That was pointless. Was it worth it just to pick up just a few bits of text for an ending?' (Oh, god, let alone the ending with the kids...)

Do I buy the trophies, and leave my bb Emil alone? Do I leave the game un-Platinum'd? Do I go through with it for the trophies, and roll back my save so like a hypocrite so I can pretend I never did those terrible things to Emil? (Even though the trophy screengrabs would know what I'd done...) Before I realized what would happen to Emil, I'd already collected all the other weapons and levelled all of them up. My inner completionist is currently deeply conflicted with my conscience.

Urgh, I don't think I could stand killing Emil. Taro, enjoy your mic-drop.

I'm glad I'm not the only one! It was originally my intention to complete the Emil fights on my replay, since from what I've heard, the emotional moneyshot is immense, but I don't think I can do it.

One thing I'm sure of is that out of respect for Emil and Taro, I'm not going to youtube it. If I really just have to get that mainline shot of FEELS, I won't leave it to someone else to do the dirty work.

BTW, how many people here noticed the shut-in kid in the village was still alive after the attack? I accidentally killed him while I was at his door

I noticed it while the attack was taking place, and it actually took me out of it a bit because I was so amused. Reminds me of this:

 

[Yabberwocky]

I'm glad I'm not the only one! It was originally my intention to complete the Emil fights on my replay, since from what I've heard, the emotional moneyshot is immense, but I don't think I can do it.

One thing I'm sure of is that out of respect for Emil and Taro, I'm not going to youtube it. If I really just have to get that mainline shot of FEELS, I won't leave it to someone else to do the dirty work.

I completely agree with the not Youtubing. It seems worse to watch someone else do it, especially if I couldn't bring myself to kill Emil myself. I had the exact same conundrum with Undertale, and have still never seen the variation for some of the routes because it seemed wrong to Youtube them. I still have no idea what the boss battles actually entail! A disgruntled thank you to Taro and Toby Fox for giving me video game moral quandaries about watching gameplay videos like they are on a par with a snuff film.

I'd be planning to finish off the platinum for Automata this weekend before Persona 5, but argh, I think I need to think on it for awhile.

 

[Mr. Smiley]

yo, when does this track play?
https://youtu.be/Tk8w1cw6xSI

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Huh, I never saw that. All I saw was the unit data often talked about the machines being similar to toys or people, and the artwork at the end of the memories quest showing that Emil fought the aliens before they used machines.

I saw it somewhere...now I can't remember where.

 

[XANDER CAGE]

yo, when does this track play?
https://youtu.be/Tk8w1cw6xSI

I think it's a side quest one. Can't remember which though.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

yo, when does this track play?
https://youtu.be/Tk8w1cw6xSI

I believe it plays at the end of a sad sidequest.

*might* be the one that plays after you set up the makeshift grave for 2B around the lunar flowers.

 

[Astrael]

yo, when does this track play?
https://youtu.be/Tk8w1cw6xSI

This sounds like the song that plays after you do 21O's sidequest in Route B to get photos of human objects in the desert housing. I remember it being one I hadn't heard much. I am probably wrong though.

 

[sonicmj1]

Honestly, I started doing the quest and then I read up on what I needed to do and said, nah. I'm good.

I didn't even play or watch the original Nier. I just don't want to do it.

I went through with the Emil stuff, but I couldn't bring myself to do any of the endings involving murdering Pascal's villagers.

 

[KO Traveling Hobo]

I completely agree with the not Youtubing. It seems worse to watch someone else do it, especially if I couldn't bring myself to kill Emil myself. I had the exact same conundrum with Undertale, and have still never seen the variation for some of the routes because it seemed wrong to Youtube them. I still have no idea what the boss battles actually entail! A disgruntled thank you to Taro and Toby Fox for giving me video game moral quandaries about watching gameplay videos like they are on a par with a snuff film.

I'd be planning to finish off the platinum for Automata this weekend before Persona 5, but argh, I think I need to think on it for awhile.

I'm in a similar boat. Really can't make up my mind whether to continue with my replay or to just put it on the shelf until I'm done with Persona 5, so that I can come at it with a fresher perspective.

I saw it somewhere...now I can't remember where.

I remember reading something like that somewhere, too.

 

[Mr. Smiley]

I believe it plays at the end of a sad sidequest.

*might* be the one that plays after you set up the makeshift grave for 2B around the lunar flowers.

Nah, Kaine's salvation still plays in that mission.

This sounds like the song that plays after you do 21O's sidequest in Route B to get photos of human objects in the desert housing. I remember it being one I hadn't heard much. I am probably wrong though.

Close. That's the "Cold Rain" version, the same one that plays after 6O's quest.

Man I'm just stunned falling in love with Emi's voice again. And the violins, GOD

 

[chrono01]

I posted this in the OT but man, this game.

So I'm finishing up side-quests I missed my first time through the game, and just completed "YoRHa Betrayers". It's really interesting when you know everything that's going on, as the dialogue behind the characters have a different meaning. It's clear that the "YoRHa Betrayers" were YoRHa members that learned the truth behind humanity's destruction and the fact that they no longer exist, and decided to separate and live their own lives. The Commander couldn't have that, not with that knowledge out there, so she instituted a lie about them having deserted and stealing supplies from The Resistance, which turned out not to be true. Then, 9S's inquiry afterwards to his Operator, 210, who seemed flustered, not being able to provide him with any information regarding it, advising him to "be careful". It's clear she was concerned for him, knowing that if he asked more questions he'd get closer to the truth that would result in his current self being destroyed and re-booted. 2B saying afterwards that "we're here to fight, that's all" was also likely a ploy to get 9S back on track.

Damn. I love this kind of things in games, the more I play/learn, the more I get out of it all.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

I posted this in the OT but man, this game.

So I'm finishing up side-quests I missed my first time through the game, and just completed "YoRHa Betrayers". It's really interesting when you know everything that's going on, as the dialogue behind the characters have a different meaning. It's clear that the "YoRHa Betrayers" were YoRHa members that learned the truth behind humanity's destruction and the fact that they no longer exist, and decided to separate and live their own lives. The Commander couldn't have that, not with that knowledge out there, so she instituted a lie about them having deserted and stealing supplies from The Resistance, which turned out not to be true. Then, 9S's inquiry afterwards to his Operator, 210, who seemed flustered, not being able to provide him with any information regarding it, advising him to "be careful". It's clear she was concerned for him, knowing that if he asked more questions he'd get closer to the truth that would result in his current self being destroyed and re-booted. 2B saying afterwards that "we're here to fight, that's all" was also likely a ploy to get 9S back on track.

Damn. I love this kind of things in games, the more I play/learn, the more I get out of it all.

Part of the reason I'm looking forward to starting over. Everything will have new context and will subsequently feel different, I suspect.

 

[LotusHD]

I posted this in the OT but man, this game.

So I'm finishing up side-quests I missed my first time through the game, and just completed "YoRHa Betrayers". It's really interesting when you know everything that's going on, as the dialogue behind the characters have a different meaning. It's clear that the "YoRHa Betrayers" were YoRHa members that learned the truth behind humanity's destruction and the fact that they no longer exist, and decided to separate and live their own lives. The Commander couldn't have that, not with that knowledge out there, so she instituted a lie about them having deserted and stealing supplies from The Resistance, which turned out not to be true. Then, 9S's inquiry afterwards to his Operator, 210, who seemed flustered, not being able to provide him with any information regarding it, advising him to "be careful". It's clear she was concerned for him, knowing that if he asked more questions he'd get closer to the truth that would result in his current self being destroyed and re-booted. 2B saying afterwards that "we're here to fight, that's all" was also likely a ploy to get 9S back on track.

Damn. I love this kind of things in games, the more I play/learn, the more I get out of it all.

This is part of why several of the sidequests are absolutely worth doing. I still wished I had bothered to do Amnesia before finding out 2B was 2E lol

 

[chrono01]

Part of the reason I'm looking forward to starting over. Everything will have new context and will subsequently feel different, I suspect.

For sure.

I'm already excited to play through the whole thing again, but right now I'm aiming to Platinum the game before Persona 5 releases so I can finish that first, and then I'll likely return to Automata. It's strange for me to want to replay something that I just finished, but this one is that special to me.

This is part of why several of the sidequests are absolutely worth doing. I still wished I had bothered to do Amnesia before finding out 2B was 2E lol

Yeah, thankfully I did the Amnesia quest beforehand, so when I heard A2 mention that 2B was Model Type-E, I was immediately like "O_O!". That's actually one of the side-quests I'm most interested in playing through again on a new file, since I'm curious to see if I can pick up on hidden mannerisms from 2B that I missed the first time.

I can't get enough of this game. It really is a masterpiece.

 

[Astrael]

Close. That's the "Cold Rain" version, the same one that plays after 6O's quest.

Man I'm just stunned falling in love with Emi's voice again. And the violins, GOD

Ahh I hear the difference now, now I'm really curious where it pops up, too. I thought if the melody Vague Hope was associated to the two operators that the "Spring Rain" version might be, too, but couldn't find a match with the major 6O/21O scenes that I could remember. Guess I'll just have to play the game through again!

Couldn't agree more though, this track is so good and Emi's voice is just incredible. Can't wait for my OST CDs to arrive.

 

[Shahadan]

Yay another day of post partum depression

 

[Philippo]

Why were the black boxes built with machine cores? What was the gain in giving YoRHa faster emotional evolution?

Also, is there a decent explanation of the themes covered in the game? Because i want to talk about it with a friend, but having never studied these things in my life, i understand the concept but would never be able to explain theme to someone else.

 

[Baalzebup]

Why were the black boxes built with machine cores? What was the gain in giving YoRHa faster emotional evolution?

The powers that be reasoned that it would be un-ethical and/or immoral to use standard android systems for the YoRHa models since they were meant to be disposed of from the get go. They made the YoRHa models purposefully 'other' to justify them being disposable assets. It was addressed in one of the intel pieces concerning the details of project YoRHa.

 

[grimmiq]

Just finished endings D and E..GOTY for me so far, easily. Only issues I had with the game were performance problems while moving quickly through the world. Finished with 68% trophies complete, going to take a couple days off to let some stuff process then go for the platinum. Those ending credits got nuts around Square-Enix, got to there with no hits then died a dozen times, felt no shame in accepting the rescue.

 

[AllenShrz]

I guess Im very jaded toward this story, I did not feel moved about their existential problems.

But B2 being killed kind of half way the game, Pascal and the scene with the robot childrens and 9s losing his memories were the stand out moments of the game for me.

 

[Astrael]

Everytime I look into the smallest detail I find out so much. So the philosophy book, Pensées, you retreive from Anemone that immediately triggers the events leading to the death of Pascal's village was written by the actual philosopher Blaise Pascal. Even more interesting, this book wasn't finished by the time the real Pascal died, so it was published posthumously with reservations on which order the notes were intended to be read.

With that in mind, it's probably no coincidence that Pascal never got to receive this book from A2 before having his memories erased/dying. Definitely would have been an ominous book title if I had known what it signified beforehand lol.

I just can't get over how much subtext is hidden throughout this game's smallest details. Definitely going to be either my personal GOTY or at least 2nd.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Everytime I look into the smallest detail I find out so much. So the philosophy book, Pensées, you retreive from Anemone that immediately triggers the events leading to the death of Pascal's village was written by the actual philosopher Blaise Pascal. Even more interesting, this book wasn't finished by the time the real Pascal died, so it was published posthumously with reservations on which order the notes were intended to be read.

With that in mind, it's probably no coincidence that Pascal never got to receive this book from A2 before having his memories erased/dying. Definitely would have been an ominous book title if I had known what it signified beforehand lol.

I just can't get over how much subtext is hidden throughout this game's smallest details. Definitely going to be either my personal GOTY or at least 2nd.

:OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

 

[Baalzebup]

Everytime I look into the smallest detail I find out so much. So the philosophy book, Pensées, you retreive from Anemone that immediately triggers the events leading to the death of Pascal's village was written by the actual philosopher Blaise Pascal. Even more interesting, this book wasn't finished by the time the real Pascal died, so it was published posthumously with reservations on which order the notes were intended to be read.

With that in mind, it's probably no coincidence that Pascal never got to receive this book from A2 before having his memories erased/dying. Definitely would have been an ominous book title if I had known what it signified beforehand lol.

I just can't get over how much subtext is hidden throughout this game's smallest details. Definitely going to be either my personal GOTY or at least 2nd.

That is some really cray-cray level stuff right there.

 

[Ghazi]

I took a bunch of screenshots while playing and totally forgot about them. This game is very beautiful at some parts.

 

[Sumio Mondo]

So, were those the last units of Devola and Popola and the last Emil still around? Were the rest all dead? Or is there other Devola and Popola units out there and original Emil still out there somewhere?

 

[Bowlie]

After splitting himself 900 million times, I'm afraid there is no "original" Emil anymore.

But you use two Emils as bracers, and one Emil as a helmet, and there are the big Emils in the desert, so there probably are others laying around.

 

[Astral]

Everytime I look into the smallest detail I find out so much. So the philosophy book, Pensées, you retreive from Anemone that immediately triggers the events leading to the death of Pascal's village was written by the actual philosopher Blaise Pascal. Even more interesting, this book wasn't finished by the time the real Pascal died, so it was published posthumously with reservations on which order the notes were intended to be read.

With that in mind, it's probably no coincidence that Pascal never got to receive this book from A2 before having his memories erased/dying. Definitely would have been an ominous book title if I had known what it signified beforehand lol.

I just can't get over how much subtext is hidden throughout this game's smallest details. Definitely going to be either my personal GOTY or at least 2nd.

What the fuck is with your username?

 

[Eumi]

After splitting himself 900 million times, I'm afraid there is no "original" Emil anymore.

But you use two Emils as bracers, and one Emil as a helmet, and there are the big Emils in the desert, so there probably are others laying around.

There's very explicitly at least one sentient Emil rolling around 500 years later.

 

[Bowlie]

There's very explicitly at least one sentient Emil rolling around 500 years later.

Ah yeah, from the bracers' description. That one too!

 

[Jeffrey]

Emil is the mcguffin of self despair. He will suffer in some form forever.

BTW what is the timeline post nier?

Gestalt and replicants all die. Data was sent to the moon for storage. Aliens come. Emil fights with the androids against them?