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Now that we know price of Ocolus, which others are expected to cost more/less and why

It's suprising how many think that Sony will deliver the PSVR for so much less than the OR. Is this pure hopes, dreams, and fanboy wishing? Sony cannot afford to take a loss on this product. Anyone expecting the PSVR to be less than $450 is fooling themselves.

This is the same nonsense we heard when the PS4 was announced "8gb of GDDR5, 599 incoming!"


They have already stated it would be the same price as a system. It will be 399.

The spec of the Occulus is higher than PSVR, also Sony have decades of manufacturing behind them.

If anyone can make it and cheaper it will be Sony. It will be 399.
 

mrklaw

MrArseFace
I would never buy a gimmick piece of hardware from Sony because every imitation piece of hardware they've made has been for the purpose of checking a box. Saying "we have that too". VR is not important to them and you're a fool if you buy one from them.

The most you can hope for is some half-baked first party implementation for a single fiscal cycle and some indie game ports.

I don't understand this, and I hear it a lot - usually pointed at move. Move had some decent support in software from Sony, and it wasn't a super expensive peripheral. Kinect was expensive and didn't exactly set the world alight with amazing software support either?

And Sony has been investing in this area for a long time. Hasn't Richard Marx been with Sony for about 10 years? From the PS2 eye onwards,mtheyve invests in research around visual stuff like augmented reality (eye of judgement, invizimals) and motion control with move. andmolanning ahead with things like the light on the DS4 allowing it to be positionally tracked. Then they've also had their HMZ range for a few years too.

This is much more than a 'me too' product. They've already shown more investment in VR software than oculus or HTC (although oculus also seem serious about investing in exclusive titles)
 
I've tried both dev kits, and imo the vive is the better headset. Enough that you would be willing to pay more purely for the headset? I'm not sure, and the customer versions might be different anyway. What vive has going for it is the other peripherals. Once you've played something being able to walk around and physically touch objects it's a game changer.

Awesome. Thanks.

How do you like the Vive controllers? The Oculus Rift touch controllers look like they'd be much more useful in "games" versus glorified tech demos.

I'm thinking Valve support will be a real game changer in the long term.
 

Kosma

Banned
I dobt think psvr will be more than 399.

Sony will make money of the games, and I think with niche hardware (for now) they know the software attach rate will be pretty good among the hardcore crowd that buy in to tech this early.
 

majik13

Member
Originally I was thinking around $300-$400 for the PSVR, but if Oculus really isn't making money off of the Rift like they claim then I can't imagine the PSVR costing less than $500. The processing box is probably going to add quite a bit to the cost of the headset compared to the Rift which doesn't even use one.

Oh I asked this earlier, but got no reply. so they have claimed this? What did they say exactly?

They have already stated it would be the same price as a system. It will be 399.
.

They didnt say that though. Its a common misconception. They said it "will be priced as a new gaming platform". Meaning it is priced to not make a profit, and they will sell it at cost. But we do not know what their cost is. Shu later went on to clarify this. Not to say it wont be $350. I am hoping for $350-399
 
How bigger do you think the PSVR market will be and how many exclusive VR games they have to sell to make money from software for VR to cover all the cost with VR?

Before answering, look at the sales of 1st party games on the 35 million PS4.

The hell that's got to do with the BOM the PSVR. Sony will be selling their hardware at cost and make money on software you seem to be under the mistaken impression that Sony can't produce their VR headset at less then $500 cost to themselves.
 

cheezcake

Member
The hell that's got to do with the BOM the PSVR. Sony will be selling their hardware at cost and make money on software you seem to be under the mistaken impression that Sony can't produce their VR headset at less then $500 cost to themselves.

Yeh, I called $599 on the Rift and I'm calling $399 for the PSVR. Base SKU consisting of the VR unit, camera and a move controller.
 

Lady Gaia

Member
Psvr is gonna flop at 500 hell it will flop at 400.

It needs to make a positive impression more desperately than it needs to hit huge numbers in its first year. There's no way a $300 price point would be sufficient to make a compelling product at this point, doubly so given the external processing unit they've already unveiled. $400 is as low as I can imagine it launching, and that might not include the required camera or a Move controller.

I fully expect a $500 bundle with Move and camera. And I'd be willing to jump in at that price.
 

Fox_Mulder

Rockefellers. Skull and Bones. Microsoft. Al Qaeda. A Cabal of Bankers. The melting point of steel. What do these things have in common? Wake up sheeple, the landfill wasn't even REAL!
I have the impression that less than 399$ is only a dream
 

Raist

Banned
It's suprising how many think that Sony will deliver the PSVR for so much less than the OR. Is this pure hopes, dreams, and fanboy wishing? Sony cannot afford to take a loss on this product. Anyone expecting the PSVR to be less than $450 is fooling themselves.

They can absolutely take a loss. That's how it works.
Oculus and HTC however can't, because they won't make money out of it once it's out in the consumers' hands.

I'm sure someone will follow with a better source, but...

"To reiterate, we are not making money on Rift hardware. High end VR is expensive, but Rift is obscenely cheap for what it is." - Palmer Luckey
https://twitter.com/PalmerLuckey/status/684809421675872256

I have a really hard time believing this. What are they going to make money on then?
 

KingSnake

The Birthday Skeleton
The hell that's got to do with the BOM the PSVR. Sony will be selling their hardware at cost and make money on software you seem to be under the mistaken impression that Sony can't produce their VR headset at less then $500 cost to themselves.

Where did I say Sony can't sell PSVR at less than $500?

I only challenge the idea that the VR market for Sony can produce enough money to cover for selling below cost (as it is insinuated in this thread several times). At cost, yes.
 

Teletraan1

Banned
PSVR is going to be $399. It is a slightly less robust headset packaged in a cardboard fucking box. They will probably take a $50-75 loss on each unit but make that up in software. A breakout box is not going to inflate the price in any meaningful way. It is just a fancy AV splitter.

I have no idea about the Vive but I am going to make a completely uneducated guess and say it will be more expensive but include more immersive controls or some tech that the rift is not packing in its initial release and be something that is aped in the 2.0 model.
 

Elfstruck

Member
It's suprising how many think that Sony will deliver the PSVR for so much less than the OR. Is this pure hopes, dreams, and fanboy wishing? Sony cannot afford to take a loss on this product. Anyone expecting the PSVR to be less than $450 is fooling themselves.

I guess you are one of those who believe that Sony cant afford to sell PS4 at $400 when they revealed the spec. :>
 
I think OR=Vive>PSVR

OR has 2 games with, and MS controllers.
Most importantly though, OR doesn't have the access to manufacturing that either of the other companies have.

Vive, does have that access, but will also have expensive controllers. I'm expecting the same price.

PSVR will be much cheaper I think. A lot of the R&D is likely included in PS Move, because they both use the same types of technology. Sony obviously has access to manufacturing. Sony will probably also be more likely to take some of the costs themselves. Whereas (HTC) Vive, and OR are mostly hardware, Sony has software to make money off too. It fits their usual models.
 

Nesther

Member
Hope I can get a cheaper version of PSVR, seeing as I already have a PScam an Move.
That could easily move it from 399 to 299.
 

Sinistral

Member
$349 for PSVR (Headset only). Bundles will be more.

Sony can cherry pick displays from their phone/display division, they can manufacture parts in house, assemble and do quality assurance in cheaper established markets, and have shipping chains in place. No competitor on the console market with an established market place/eco system.

Any more and it will be too much for potential buyers (console gamers).

Oculus has to source out everything it seems and build up a brand new marketplace. Will also introduce controllers later this year.

Vive.... is tricky. Valve has the marketplace and eco system in place with Steam. Although HTC is making their own. HTC has the manufacturing/asembling/quality/shipping infastructure in place already. HTC will probably need to profit per unit sold to appease shareholders. The Vive will be the premium complete package when it comes.

I'd like them to match the Rift at $599 for some real competition but I expect high end smart phone prices at $699.
 

kirby_fox

Banned
I was hoping Oculus to attempt to corner the VR market and go for a reduced cost to try to do that in a mass market appeal. It's pretty obvious that isn't going to come from any of the big 3 we're talking about here with Oculus having a very high price.

Instead it looks like Oculus is going to take the Apple approach: price high and refresh after a year to get consumers buying consistently but having lower tech approach that is compatible and more affordable as time progresses before pulling support on the original tech (3-4 years). That's going to really push it into a niche market I think, with consumers buying in initially but not upgrading whatsoever.

Sony I feel isn't going to do that. PSVR is an attempt to make more on the PS4 and all the tech they have to do that and it's a one time purchase that may carry on to the PS5. Because of this, it's hard to guess what the pricing could be. If they wanted more to sell-- they would price low and take a hit in order to keep people in their ecosystem if VR takes off in other areas ($250 max in that case). Or they could price high, and claim that because of the tech and how new it is this is what you should expect pricing to be (max would be same pricing as Oculus). Pricing high is because it's a 1 time buy for consumers in their ecosystem and they believe it can sell on its own.

HTC/Valve I don't see coming at it wanting to corner the market either. HTC doesn't have the money to lose on a product like this, and Valve is unlikely to support subsidizing the costs. Because of that, I would take a guess it'll be priced similar to Oculus as well if not more.
 
Awesome. Thanks.

How do you like the Vive controllers? The Oculus Rift touch controllers look like they'd be much more useful in "games" versus glorified tech demos.

I'm thinking Valve support will be a real game changer in the long term.

They're quite large and bulky (devkit at least), imagine an extra couple of inches on a move controller. I imagine if you were sat at a desk they may be too big, but if you're playing in a space they don't get in the way.

They are very intuitive though. You don't even need to see your hands in fact. In the game I was playing you couldn't see your hands, but because they're relative to you I was reaching around and hitting buttons and flipping levers in seconds. I could even juggle-ish. Imagine you're interacting with everything using your fists.

Now developers can interpret movements to decide what your hands are doing, and I imagine they'll get pretty good at that. So maybe you'll eventually not even notice you have no finger movement. I've not tried the oculus touch but that extra dexterity may feel as big a leap as the vive does right now. I could see it, but I'm suspicious about how much they'll cost.
 

wig

Member
I'm most certain PSVR will cost $400. If Vive ends up costing more, then it will make PSVR look mighty appealing.
 

LordofPwn

Member
I really can't see Sony launching PSVR without a camera in the box. I know anybody can just buy one for like $60 if they dont have one already, but the last thing you want is for someone to buy a PSVR, bring it home, hook it up, and then realize they need to go back to the store and pick up the camera.
 
It has to be. Every product in the Playstation that ain't a home console sells pretty bad compared to their counter parts. PSP and the PS Vita never reach the status of worthy companion for the PS2,PS3 and ps4.


PSP sold 82M WW son!

PS3 is only a few mil over that worldwide to date.

But GAF will be GAF I guess.
 

RibMan

Member
The cost probably won't put one over another at this point. Mainstream demand just isn't there, and likely won't be for some time.

(Long post ahead)

I strongly disagree. I think the uncertainty of the technology means the pricing of the headset will be the deciding factor behind mainstream adoption.

It's very important to remember that demand can be heavily influenced by early adopters. This is why it's extremely important to 'get it right' at launch. If word of mouth is extremely positive, then you will see demand shoot up. People will Google stuff and go shopping for a VR headset, and it is at that point where the cheaper device wins. The cheapest VR device simply has to be 'good enough' and have access to popular VR content in order to earn a purchase.

The mainstream/casual consumer will simply not care about refresh rates and whether or not the headset has a high-end OLED screen. Price, accessibility, content, popularity, comfortability, looks -- this is, whether we like it or not, the criteria that the average consumer will set in place for purchasing one of these headsets.

Based on what Oculus has announced, what Sony are doing, and what the Vive seems to be doing, I will say that there are two big mistakes that each company is making that will affect mainstream adoption and perception:

Oculus
Mistake #1 = Not having Oculus Machines. Let's face it -- having pre-built machines that are 100% compatible with the Rift would save a lot of time and headaches for the average consumer. When a major part of the Oculus conversation is whether or not you can actually use the device, then I can guarantee you that the average consumer will gravitate towards the VR solution that is 100% usable. I understand the complexities behind pre-building machines (the shipping alone can be nightmarish), but with Facebook behind the product, you would assume the extra muscle would eliminate a lot of those difficulties.

Mistake #2 = The Xbox One controller. The Xbox One controller is the Xbox One controller. From a promotion and marketing standpoint, when you see an X logo on a controller, you instantly assume the controller is meant to be used on an Xbox console. This wouldn't be a problem if the Oculus Rift was built for the One. It's a problem because it's a device built for the PC. The average consumer is going to see the Xbox One controller in Oculus promo materials and think "This is an Xbox thing". This association is valuable to Microsoft, but it's a world of customer support phone calls for Oculus.

PSVR
Mistake #1 = The Move controller. The Move was a controller for the PS3. It's very handy (pun unintended) that the controller can be 'forward compatible', however, casual and mainstream consumers do not want to be associated with been-there-done-that experiences. The Move is a been-there-done-that device. The Dualshock 4 isn't -- it is a new controller. Sony has not effectively communicated that the Dualshock 4 is compatible with the PSVR. The average consumer does not care about the increased fidelity of the Move controller, so with that in mind, Sony needs to communicate that the PSVR games are playable on the DS4. It's imperative that this new and fresh experience isn't tied to old and done experiences.

Mistake #2 = Playing it safe. If the PSVR is meant to be both a device for gaming and experiences, then Sony needs to stop ignoring the experiences part. There was a developer on a Giantbomb video who joked about making a Vomit Simulator for VR. Now, I'm not saying that Sony should make a Vomit Simulator. What I'm saying is I can guarantee you that an out of the box idea for PSVR will generate astronomically more interest in the mainstream than Tekken #7 having VR support. If they want this thing to fly off shelves then they need to invest in the things that will make your mother and 4th grade English teacher want to experience. Cutting My Hair: The Game, Holy F*** I'm Flying to Space Simulator, Hunting with Grandma, Zanzibar Simulator, Become the President, One on One with Serena, Get Out of a Boring Meeting 2016, etc. This is the stuff that will -- again, whether we like it or not -- go far beyond the pages of Gamefaqs and land on the HuffingtonPost's, HollywoodLife's, and Bleacherreport's of the world. I cannot stress how important it is for (what is looking like the cheapest and most accessible headset) the PSVR to have experiences designed for more than just us. I remember it like it was yesterday when Nintendogs, Brain Age, and Wii Sports were mocked to death for their simplicity and non-hardcoreness. In hindsight, those titles quite literally made the mainstream associate every ounce of casual gaming with Nintendo, leading to record amounts of sales, interest, and support for Nintendo products.

Vive
Mistake #1 = Freedom of movement as a selling point. Mainstream consumers will absolutely bite at the 'coolness' of being able to walk around a virtual room, but they won't swallow when you tell them you have to rearrange your furniture to make it all work. This is the Kinect problem reborn with Steam's logo. The novelty of being able to physically move around wears off the second you realize there are severe limitations to the movement. Furthermore, when your eyes are completely obfuscated from the real world around you, the last thing you want to do is start walking around and possibly trip over Mimsy, the family dog. You can test this out for yourself. Hold your phone close enough to your face that you can only see your phone. Then, make an attempt to walk to your kitchen and back to where you're seated. If done correctly, you will immediately realize why a stationary VR experience will be significantly more appealing to a mainstream audience.

Mistake #2 = Branding the Vive as a premium device. This one is really straight-forward. There is nothing that the Vive has shown or revealed that warrants the premium tag. The headset isn't wireless, the resolution isn't leaps and bounds better than the competition, the controllers don't transform and have bright lights on them, the cameras aren't able to sing the national anthem, nothing. Guess which audience of consumers will invest time and energy into criticizing your product for not being what you claim it to be? Enthusiasts. Basically, Vive is targeting an audience of people who can smell BS from a mile away, and once they smell it, they will take note of the time and place they smelt it and warn others of the stench. Furthermore, the enthusiast market simply cares more about the Rift than the Vive because the Vive is perceived as a me-too device. There is a tremendous amount of goodwill that comes with being the 'first' one to do something, and it is the enthusiast market that generates and distributes a lot of that goodwill. In other words, HTC has an extraordinarily slim chance of being the #1 headset for enthusiasts...which leaves the mainstream market.The mainstream market prioritizes pricing over everything. If you have branded your product as the 'premium' device, and you have priced it as a premium device, then you will need a miracle and a half to attract the price-conscious market. In other words, HTC has an extraordinarily slim chance of being the #1 headset for casuals. In summary, the branding of their device cannot satisfy the needs of either audience. It would be tremendously short-sighted to write the Vive off, but the market is just not siding with the headset.

In closing (and in the spirit of the thread), I will say that I think Sony has the best chance of being the market leader in VR due to price, access, content, and popularity. I think the PSVR will start at $299.99 and have options that go into the $399.99 range. I think the Vive will launch at the same price as Oculus, but due to the lack of outstanding features and software, it will be the least-adopted VR headset out of the three. Furthermore, I think StarVR will compete with the Ouya in sales-figures and messageboard jokes, and the fact that there are hardcore gamers who didn't know this is an actual thing should tell you how much of a shot it has in the marketplace.
 

AgentP

Thinks mods influence posters politics. Promoted to QAnon Editor.
300 will be too much for a lot of people.

You can say that about any price for a toy. Sony is not trying to sell massive units, I'm sure they have internal projections of a few million based on their price. At $399 with good word of mouth they could sell a few million to the core crowd and tech junkies.
 
I think it will also be $599 or just under....sony never price stuff below their competitors until a year from release....theres also not that many games in the pipeline for it so you will get that usual 1 or 2 year wait for decent games which is when they will drop the price and bundle it.
 

Joejoe123

Neo Member
I'm on-board the VR hype train, but $599 for a piece of first generation hardware that will likely be obsolete in less than a year seems a bit pricey.

I think the Vive will match the rift at $599 and the PSVR will be $349.
 

border

Member
I have a really hard time believing this. What are they going to make money on then?

Oculus Version 5.0 in 2022.

Most startup companies spend years losing money, even when they don't have Facebook's bank account to borrow from.
 

KingSnake

The Birthday Skeleton
Vive
Mistake #1 = Freedom of movement as a selling point. Mainstream consumers will absolutely bite at the 'coolness' of being able to walk around a virtual room, but they won't swallow when you tell them you have to rearrange your furniture to make it all work. This is the Kinect problem reborn with Steam's logo. The novelty of being able to physically move around wears off the second you realize there are severe limitations to the movement. Furthermore, when your eyes are completely obfuscated from the real world around you, the last thing you want to do is start walking around and possibly trip over Mimsy, the family dog. You can test this out for yourself. Hold your phone close enough to your face that you can only see your phone. Then, make an attempt to walk to your kitchen and back to where you're seated. If done correctly, you will immediately realize why a stationary VR experience will be significantly more appealing to a mainstream audience.

Vive just fixed so called mistake with the 2nd devkit (and the consumer version will be similar).
 

RibMan

Member
Vive just fixed so called mistake with the 2nd devkit (and the consumer version will be similar).

No way! Well then, it looks like the Vive just became significantly better.

Edit: Re-read my original post. In case there's confusion, when I say Oculus should make Oculus Machines I'm referring to hardware that's actually made by Oculus and Facebook, and not the Valve model of putting their logo on Alienware machines.
 
What are the spec differences between PSVR and Oculus?

I would assume that if PSVR can mostly be powered by a PS4. And that Oculus requires a PC that is, let's say bottom line at least $1000, then I'd have to guess PSVR will be cheaper.
 

eXMomoj

Member
Oculus Rift = $599
HTC Vive = $699
PSVR = $399

PSVR will more than likely be the weakest of the three (unless Sony has something up their sleeve).
 

Raonak

Banned
PSVR will be the cheapest, cause it is the weakest and sony can subsidise by selling at loss and making it up via games.
 

Random17

Member
I disagree with the $399 figures for the PSVR, I have a feeling that Sony may push it to $450 or $499. No more than $500, though.

Vive will probably be $700ish.
 

Jimrpg

Member
I just don't think PSVR using the PS4 and an additional processing box can match my PC (i5/GTX970) so regardless of whether one is more expensive than the other, I'll be getting it for the PC.

However if PSVR has compelling software then I could very well jump on that.
 

Razzorn34

Member
I'll be watching from afar for quite a while. The biggest thing with dedicated peripherals is not how good they are, but how well they are supported. Considering the track record and high cost barrier of entry, VR has an extremely high chance of dying like most have.
 
http://www.roadtovr.com/following-o...-customers-will-be-happy-with-the-investment/

When asked for a comment on today’s reveal of the Oculus Rift price of $600, Ryan Hoopingarner, director of VR product marketing at HTC, seemed to sympathize with the company by comparing the purchase to an investment.

“We realize that the initial purchase of a VR system is definitely an investment,” said Hoopingarner. “We feel like [customers will] be happy with the investment they’ve made in the Vive.”

Although the company hasn’t set a firm price for the Vive, HTC has alluded that it will be positioned as a premium platform among VR systems.
 

mclem

Member
I expect PSVR to be considerably less, owing to being heavily subsidised by Sony; it's in their interests to try to make it as consumer-friendly a product as possible.

Vive, I'm not sure about. I think there's merit in aiming for the middle ground between PSVR and Oculus, but I'm unclear how achievable that is.
 
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