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[teruterubozu]

It takes a few seconds to do a rough calculation and you could save thousands of dollars. That's anal? You must be the most chill brah around. (Or did I miss sarcasm?)

I'm actually surprised at just how much financial sense the Prius makes. I'm sure I did some kind of estimate before I bought mine but I didn't focus on it too much. I considered it worth it as long as it was roughly break-even over the life of the car. But just 30,000 miles to recoup the extra cost? Niiiiiice. I want to know which cars they're actually comparing to though. It just says "similar-sized" alternatives. I certainly wouldn't have bought a mid-size hatchback other than the Prius, so I'm more interested in how it compares to, say, the Corolla or Civic.

Yeah, but already in this thread people are disputing the calculations of this article alone. Who's calculations are correct? I guess if you're confident in your number crunching, it could put you at ease about the purchase. I mean, if you really want to know the true costs, you have to include oil changes, car insurance, registration fees, tire rotations, maintenance, possible fender-benders...who does that? A mere mileage calculation is a small part of the picture.

 

[ascii42]

I think they just assume you will be driving the car until it dies.

In that case the payoff duration only matters if it is longer than the car is going to last.

 

[ProfessorMoran]

It takes a few seconds to do a rough calculation and you could save thousands of dollars. That's anal? You must be the most chill brah around. (Or did I miss sarcasm?)

I'm actually surprised at just how much financial sense the Prius makes. I'm sure I did some kind of estimate before I bought mine but I didn't focus on it too much. I considered it worth it as long as it was roughly break-even over the life of the car. But just 30,000 miles to recoup the extra cost? Niiiiiice. I want to know which cars they're actually comparing to though. It just says "similar-sized" alternatives. I certainly wouldn't have bought a mid-size hatchback other than the Prius, so I'm more interested in how it compares to, say, the Corolla or Civic.

But then people aren't just looking at mileage, you can get a camry for less and it's probably a nicer ride with better acceleration on the highway. The Prius would be nice for city driving though, I wouldn't mind one just to get to work and back. The corolla costs way less right off the bat, and that's the problem with these hybrid cars, they can't compete in terms of price and a lot of people trade in after a few years.

 

[captive]

just want to pop in and say i love my TDI, wouldn't choose any other hybrid or electric over it.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

just want to pop in and say i love my TDI, wouldn't choose it over any other hybrid or electric.

I think you worded this poorly.

And I hope you got a good VW or just leased it. Horrible reliability ratings.

 

[Zaptruder]

We still have to generate the electricity with coal, gas and iranium, and you still have to extract those resources, we'll always need fuel, whether it's oil, coal, gas or nuclear, and we still need petroleum for manufacturing just about everything.

1. We certainly do. But nonetheless, electricity from power plants is more efficient than internal combustion engines.

2. Obviously, you'd want to do the same kind of accounting for power plants - you'll find that green is with externalities accounted for, a more economically rational approach to take over the long term.

3. Petroleum for plastics is a relatively small (and acceptable) percentage of total petroleum consumption. Plus, it's not burning the shit out of the stuff and releasing its GHG payload into an already overloaded atmosphere.

 

[verbum]

I have a true hybrid. I had to get a new car. I wanted the best mpg because I figured if gas went up, the more I would save.
I realize my mpg savings will not pay for the car but I do enjoy being able to spend less on gas driving a 1200 mile round trip to Chincoteague Island, VA or up to mountains to camp out. Plus the oil change interval is about 8000-9000 miles, so I do save a bit on that.
The "out the door" price of $20,000 would have been spent on something else.
I don't have great acceleration but I am finding out I don't need great acceleration.
I do have a comfortable ride. And at $4/gal for 11 gallons which equals $44, I can drive 400 miles on the highway.

 

[BrettHD]

I have a true hybrid. I had to get a new car. I wanted the best mpg because I figured if gas went up, the more I would save.
I realize my mpg savings will not pay for the car but I do enjoy being able to spend less on gas driving a 1200 mile round trip to Chincoteague Island, VA or up to mountains to camp out. Plus the oil change interval is about 8000-9000 miles, so I do save a bit on that.
The "out the door" price of $20,000 would have been spent on something else.
I don't have great acceleration but I am finding out I don't need great acceleration.
I do have a comfortable ride. And at $4/gal for 12 gallons which equals $48, I can drive 400 miles on the highway.

What car is this ?

 

[captive]

I think you worded this poorly.

And I hope you got a good VW or just leased it. Horrible reliability ratings.

you are correct i did word it poorly.


Don't know about these mythical unreliable jetta's i have one, my dad has one and my mom has one with probably close to 250-300k miles on them, still running fine.

 

[verbum]

What car is this ?

2011 Honda Insight

 

[sk3]

2011 Honda Insight

You chose... Poorly.

 

[Meier]

Why in the world would you compare an entry luxury vehicle to the Chevy Volt? Even then, the BMW starts at $35,000, is a bigger and much more powerful vehicle.

The whole point is to compare it to a car similar in quality and size. The Chevy Cruze and Volt are nearly identical in size. Except the Cruze starts at half the MSRP that the Volt does --- AFTER the tax rebate. That's a huge gap to cover.

The people spending $35,000 on one car versus another are making this decision so comparing the two is more comparable. Someone in the market for a Volt is not in the market for a Cruze in all likelihood. How much does one save on gas costs in a Volt versus a car that costs the same is a more accurate comparison.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

The people spending $35,000 on one car versus another are making this decision so comparing the two is more comparable. Someone in the market for a Volt is not in the market for a Cruze in all likelihood. How much does one save on gas costs in a Volt versus a car that costs the same is a more accurate comparison.

Agree with this.

 

[derder]

You chose... Poorly.

What's wrong with the Insight?

 

[Vilix]

I just want a vehicle that is reliable, durable, and will last. I have a 98 4Runner with 250K miles and it runs and looks just as good as when I bought it new. If a hybrid, or a vehicle that runs on camel shit, can stand up to the everyday grit, then I'll buy it.

 

[ascii42]

I just want a vehicle that is reliable, durable, and will last. I have a 98 4Runner with 250K miles and it runs and looks just as good as when I bought it new. If a hybrid, or a vehicle that runs on camel shit, can stand up to the everyday grit, then I'll buy it.

Consumer Reports tested a 9 year old Prius with 206,000 miles on it, and found that performance and fuel economy hardly changed at all.

 

[reilo]

The people spending $35,000 on one car versus another are making this decision so comparing the two is more comparable. Someone in the market for a Volt is not in the market for a Cruze in all likelihood. How much does one save on gas costs in a Volt versus a car that costs the same is a more accurate comparison.

It's a downright silly comparison because you are comparing price points and not the vehicles themselves. If you take away the Volt's advanced drivetrain you are left with a Chevy Cruze. If someone has the money to spend $35-40k on a car, why wouldn't they just save $16k and buy the Cruze?

The Volt, at the moment, is completely priced out of the budget of the people that it would benefit the most. Well-to-do people don't care about saving money on gas.

 

[verbum]

You chose... Poorly.

Not the best car, but I have enjoyed it so far in the 7 months I have driven it.
I like the storage compared to the Prius.
I am averaging 44 mpg gal so far.
Terrible view out the back, so I have to be really careful backing up.
Piss poor acceleration, but I have adapted.
Driving around town, I am averaging between 39-41 mpg.
For what I use it for, commuting and long trips twice a month, I feel OK with the purchase. Plus the loan interest of 0.5% is good. Good warranty.
Last weekend I drove up to Stone Mountain State Park north of Charlotte, NC and camped out for two days. About 540 miles round trip. I used 1 and 3/8 tank of gas going 72-78 mph on I-20 and I-77. Did a detour to North Wilksboro, NC to Stone Mountain from north of Charlotte because of stalled traffic on I-77/Hwy 21 on Friday afternoon.
Maybe not the best car, but I'm fairly happy with it especially for $20,000 out the door.

A nice ratings view of the hybrids:
http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/rankings/Hybrid-Cars/

 

[Rich Uncle Skeleton]

The corolla costs way less right off the bat, and that's the problem with these hybrid cars, they can't compete in terms of price and a lot of people trade in after a few years.

"Can't compete"? This is just not true. I went back and fiddled around with the numbers again and came back to what I found when I was buying my car. It's something close to break-even if you keep your car long enough. A Corolla or Civic is getting something like 30mpg (depending of course on how much city driving you do), so at $4/gallon gas the cost to drive 10,000 miles is something like 4(10,000/50) = 800 for the Prius and something like 4(10,000/30) = 1333 for those other cars. So if you drive your car for 120,000 miles (not unreasonable) you make up the roughly $6,000 difference in sticker price. Not nearly as rosy as that article made things sound (again, they were apparently comparing to cars with really shitty fuel economy), but still, like I said, in the ballpark of break-even. When you take into account the effects each decision has on the environment, it's more than worth it to get the Prius in my view.

Edit: Didn't take into account the interest you'd be getting on that $6,000 sitting in the bank for those years, so maybe another 20,000 miles needed. Still not unreasonable.

 

[reilo]

"Can't compete"? This is just not true. I went back and fiddled around with the numbers again and came back to what I found when I was buying my car. It's something close to break-even if you keep your car long enough. A Corolla or Civic is getting something like 30mpg (depending of course on how much city driving you do), so at $4/gallon gas the cost to drive 10,000 miles is something like 4(10,000/50) = 800 for the Prius and something like 4(10,000/30) = 1333 for those other cars. So if you drive your car for 120,000 miles (not unreasonable) you make up the roughly $6,000 difference in sticker price. Not nearly as rosy as that article made things sound (again, they were apparently comparing to cars with really shitty fuel economy), but still, like I said, in the ballpark of break-even. When you take into account the effects each decision has on the environment, it's more than worth it to get the Prius in my view.

120,000 miles is an ungodly amount of miles to drive in order to recoup the money saved on gas. My head is spinning from your justifications for this.

EDIT: FYI, the average annual miles driven per drive in the US (link) is 13,476. You are arguing that it would take 8.9 years to break even on the purchase of a hybrid. That's 3 years longer than the average American owns their car for.

 

[ascii42]

120,000 miles is an ungodly amount of miles to drive in order to recoup the money saved on gas. My head is spinning from your justifications for this.

EDIT: FYI, the average annual miles driven per drive in the US (link) is 13,476. You are arguing that it would take 8.9 years to break even on the purchase of a hybrid. That's 3 years longer than the average American owns their car for.

Why use averages when you are questioning a single person's decision? Ask him how many miles he drives, and how long he plans to keep the car. If he sells it before he has recouped the cost, it's possible that he could make up some if not all of the difference in increased resale value. If he sells it after he recoups the cost, then why does it matter how long it took?

 

[Meier]

The Volt, at the moment, is completely priced out of the budget of the people that it would benefit the most. Well-to-do people don't care about saving money on gas.

I agree that it is priced out of the budget of the people that it would benefit the most. In the current market, people who buy hybrids are wealthy by nature though (due to their price) -- and many of them are concerned about the environmental impact in addition to the cost savings. That is harder to place a value on.

Hybrids need to come down in price to more realistic levels but they don't sell enough to lower manufacturing costs. It's an unfortunate situation that hopefully can be rectified because it's a step that we need to take.

 

[reilo]

Why use averages when you are questioning a single person's decision? Ask him how many miles he drives, and how long he plans to keep the car. If he sells it before he has recouped the cost, it's possible that he could make up some if not all of the difference in increased resale value. If he sells it after he recoups the cost, then why does it matter how long it took?

Because we are having a discussion about whether it is worth for consumers to purchase a hybrid over its cheaper non-hybrid counter-part? That's the whole point of the article? Otherwise we'd just run around in circles with people dismissing a general argument because it does not suite their life.

 

[Cyan]

How the hell is this news? I mean, who didn't already know this?

 

[Rich Uncle Skeleton]

Why use averages when you are questioning a single person's decision? Ask him how many miles he drives, and how long he plans to keep the car. If he sells it before he has recouped the cost, it's possible that he could make up some if not all of the difference in increased resale value. If he sells it after he recoups the cost, then why does it matter how long it took?

Exactly. I was responding to a claim that hybrids "couldn't compete" on price, and sharing my own decision-making process. If you want to get rid of your car after putting less than 80,000 miles on it, have a party.

Again, for some of us, price is not the only concern, so if the cost analysis shows that two cars are in the same ballpark, we'll take the one doing less damage to our environment.

 

[Vicetrailia]

If everyone in the united states had a hybrid, the collective savings would be massive.

From Civic - Civic Hybrid, maybe there isn't some huge savings immediately apparent for an individual, but regardless, you still notice the savings every time you fill up your vehicle. Little by little son.

 

[Krauser Kat]

I was America would get on the diesel train. The mpg on small diesel cars is almost to 70 on mini cooper sized cars and 50-60. Not to mention you can convert over to biodiesel.

 

[Archer]

I was America would get on the diesel train. The mpg on small diesel cars is almost to 70 on mini cooper sized cars and 50-60. Not to mention you can convert over to biodiesel.

I had a Cooper S w/ supercharger for a while. They scream at high speed on the open highway, still pulling in 35mpg at very near triple digit speeds.

Good times.

 

[Jobiensis]

Hybrids generally have cheaper and easier maintenance than normal cars. The batteries last a hell of a lot longer than most people think, and have long warranties as well.

Financially speaking, it is far better to drive the car into the ground, and in that case a hybrid will pay itself off long before the car dies. Saying it makes no financial sense if you trade in the car in three years is moronic. It never makes financial sense to sell a car that soon.

Diesel costs more and has increased sulfur emissions. It is not a panacea.

 

[BrettWeir]

This is why I have my eye on a Prius C. $18,950 (starting...which is what I would get) at 53/46? Hell, my 2003 Toyota Celica was $18,000 at 23/30......which I am still driving.

 

[captive]

Hybrids generally have cheaper and easier maintenance than normal cars. The batteries last a hell of a lot longer than most people think, and have long warranties as well.

Citations needed for everything here. I would be very suprised for the maintenance to not only be easier but cheaper considering you now have two motors in one car.

Diesel costs more and has increased sulfur emissions. It is not a panacea.

i see you're not familiar with clean diesel. Or the fact that they can be run on biodiesel or vegetable oil if you want.

 

[Yoritomo]

I think the wording is weird.

Probably the most environmentally friendly and efficient thing you can do is just buy small efficient used vehicles (provided they were made after whatever new emissions regulations happened to be enforced). But the article isn't talking about efficiency, it's talking about hybrids.

This is why I have my eye on a Prius C. $18,950 (starting...which is what I would get) at 53/46? Hell, my 2003 Toyota Celica was $18,000 at 23/30......which I am still driving.

That thing looks great! I think this is the first hybrid I'd be excited about. It's still almost a 5k premium over a yaris though.

 

[Jobiensis]

Citations needed for everything here. I would be very suprised for the maintenance to not only be easier but cheaper considering you now have two motors in one car.

Electric motors don't typically require maintenance other than maybe bearings after many years. The gasoline motor is leagues smaller than what the put in a standard car. The transmission on some hybrids is fairly fool proof compared to a normal auto/manual transmission.

i see you're not familiar with clean diesel. Or the fact that they can be run on biodiesel or vegetable oil if you want.

Biodiesel is not widely available. Good luck with your warranty if you run veg oil in most diesel motors.