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[NotWii]

Okay, but still

Spoiler

why did they destroy all of the artifacts if they were archaeologists like Indy said they were?

Yeah, that didn't make a whole lot of sense either.
Someone should get Spielberg and Lucas in a room and get them to clear this stuff up.

Indy4 is probably part of the population acclimatisation program to get people thinking about

Spoiler

aliens before they supposedly show up in 2012

 

[MaverickX9]

Oscars don't mean shit, let's just say Raiders is a splendid movie, adventure fiction at its absolute finest, Oscar worthy if Oscars were worth a shit

:lol

Since when do Oscars not mean anything?

The Oscars aren't like the Grammy's. It takes more than popularity to win an Oscar.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

And why are people spoiler tagging the word

Spoiler

aliens

. It says in the trailer that the skull

Spoiler

was not made by human hands

:lol I am tagging it to avoid banning. I don't think it is a spoiler.

A) I for one avoided trailers to avoid spoilers.
B)

Spoiler

"Not made by human hands" could've meant yet another purely religious thing without explanation behind it.

While that kind of makes sense, the fact is that all three previous Indy films were based on religious or occult artifacts. The power of these artifacts came from gods or spirits. In Indy IV, the source of power is technological, which doesn't really fit in with the pattern from the first three films.

Ehh, it's not so much that they're necessarily different as that this time around we got a look behind the curtain.

Indy4 is probably part of the population acclimatisation program to get people thinking about

Spoiler

aliens before they supposedly show up in 2012

Spoiler

Spielberg's really been slacking off in this regard for the last quarter century or so!

 

[BigJonsson]

Maybe it read Spalko's mind and saw what she wanted the knowledge for and didn't approve.

As for why Ox and Indy decided to flee, no idea...

They didn't want to get sent to the next dimension DBZ style

 

[HAL_Laboratory]

So freakin' awful. I wanted to walk out about a half hour into it, but my kid was enjoying it. I have the same feeling of disappointment as I did after seeing The Phantom Menace. This film wasn't anything like the originals. So many cheesy scenes, awful dialogue, and the story was worse than I imagined it would be.

Gophers, swinging from the vines, ants, the fridge, the quicksand, etc....sigh.

I don't understand this point of view. I saw the movie today as well, and while it wasn't the best movie of the summer -- Wall E and The Dark Knight have yet to come out -- it does what it was meant to do just fine, and manages to evoke some of the original Lucas/Spielberg magic in the process. Sure it's not just like the originals, but they weren't exactly cheeseless either. Besides -- you're talking about films that were made 15-20 years ago. Anybody can put out fan service crap and make a buck, but instead they went with a movie that not only serves its loyalists, but ties up a great story in the process.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

While that kind of makes sense, the fact is that all three previous Indy films were based on religious or occult artifacts. The power of these artifacts came from gods or spirits. In Indy IV,

Spoiler

the source of power is technological, which doesn't really fit in with the pattern from the first three films.

Thinking about this again, I don't think we really learned that.

Spoiler

We never saw any technology behind the skull's powers; we just assume so because we have preconceived notions about aliens. If instead of talking about them as "interdimensional beings" they were referred to as "beings from the spirit world" it would be basically the same thing in a more flowery covering.

 

[SCULLIBUNDO]

:lol

Since when do Oscars not mean anything?

Since the 2006 Academy Awards when Crash won best picture.

 

[MaverickX9]

Since the 2006 Academy Awards when Crash won best picture.

Everyone makes an occasional mistake. At least they redeemed themselves in 2007.

 

[Goreomedy]

I went in with extremely low expectations after so much negative word.

I respect what they tried to do, fashion the Indy franchise into a late 50's early 60's schlock film homage(

Spoiler

Indiana standing at the base of a mushroom cloud was awesome imagery! Too bad he had to fridge-surf the shock wave to get there.

, but the script suffered from schizophrenia. David Koepp does not have the writing chops to mine several Indy drafts and meld it into a beloved franchise resurgence.

What the film offers is an above average actioner, carried by nostalgia, good actor chemistry, and a few great set pieces

Spoiler

(I loved the brief Mutt/Indiana London motorcycle chase sequence. More of this, and less Tarzan swings, 'kay?)

The most important thing, it shows potential. I'd very much welcome a new Indiana/Mutt buddy adventure edition... but with a sharper script.

 

[Shalashaska]

After a couple days of thinking, the movie has grown on me a bit. I think as I get the chance to watch it a couple more times, I'll be quite fine with it. However, one thing I realized what was missing was that there really wasn't one big 'Indiana Jones' moment (the character not storywise). And there was very little whip action.

 

[CommanderQueen]

Everyone makes an occasional mistake. At least they redeemed themselves in 2007.

They awarded "Happy Feet" Best Animated Picture and finally gave Scorsese his due in 2006. And then they nominated Juno and Michael Clayton, that's hardly redeeming themselves.

 

[Flynn]

They awarded "Happy Feet" Best Animated Picture and finally gave Scorsese his due in 2006. And then they nominated Juno and Michael Clayton, that's hardly redeeming themselves.

If my old writing professor was any indication half of the academy doesn't watch any of the movies. He brought his ballot into class and let us pick his votes. I've heard that some members let friends, help, kids tick off the boxes.

 

[BobFromPikeCreek]

Everyone makes an occasional mistake. At least they redeemed themselves in 2007.

Juno? Really?

 

[Jack Scofield]

Just got home from seeing it. I went in without knowing the general consensus of the movie, whether it was bad or good or anything like that. I have to say I enjoyed it, though I had a few problems some parts. Things I had a problem with:

Spoiler

-Mutt Williams' Tarzan swinging and subsequent monkey attack. Just felt really out of place and forced.
-The whole alien thing at the end of the movie. I would have much preferred that the alien skull not be explained, and left to the audience's imagination whether or not it's from an extraterrestrial origin. However, they decided to beat us over the head at the end of the movie and let us know that it IS an alien skull, nothing else. The spaceship scene could have been left out, in my opinion, though it LOOKED really neat.

So, what's the general consensus here on gaf? Do people agree/disagree with me?

 

[Count Dookkake]

So, what's the general consensus here on gaf? Do people agree/disagree with me?

Everyone pretty much agrees that it is a masterpiece at least as good as Raiders.

 

[Exclamation-One]

Personally, I felt the film COULD have been second to Raiders. It had so many, many, great elements. Lucas decided to fuck it up and add implausible -Xtreme!- computer generated imagery. Koepp wrote lame expository dialogue that should have been excised. Speilberg phoned it in.

As it is, we have a film inferior to Temple of Doom.

 

[SantaC]

Anyone felt that the vine Tarzan swings from Mutt are rivald by that little girl's gymnastic move against the raptor in jurassic park 2? I really cringed when it happend.

 

[ProfessorLobo]

Anyone felt that the vine Tarzan swings from Mutt are rivald by that little girl's gymnastic move against the raptor in jurassic park 2? I really cringed when it happend.

It was worse. It would be like if a bunch of little dinosaurs started doing gymnastics and started attacking the velociraptors for the girl.

 

[NotWii]

Anyone felt that the vine Tarzan swings from Mutt are rivald by that little girl's gymnastic move against the raptor in jurassic park 2? I really cringed when it happend.

At least that bit was filmed in real life.

 

[SantaC]

It was worse. It would be like if a bunch of little dinosaurs started doing gymnastics and started attacking the velociraptors for the girl.

true

 

[OpinionatedCyborg]

This one scene is better than all of Crystal Skull combined:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=cEbQKTYeDis.

It has all the elements Crystal Skull lacked: the immense feeling of discovery and awe, amazing music, a real sense of tension and danger, and beautiful imagery.

No wonder I was disappointed.

 

[temp]

Exactly. If I had told you that in my opinion the Earth is flat, you wouldn't accept my opinion.

That's not an opinion, that's a belief. Opinions can't be wrong. I don't know if you're joking or not, but I see so many people making this mistake that I feel like I have to say something.

 

[Green Shinobi]

Since the 2006 Academy Awards when Crash won best picture.

I would say since the 2005 Oscars when Million Dollar Baby won and The Incredibles wasn't nominated.

That's not an opinion, that's a belief. Opinions can't be wrong. I don't know if you're joking or not, but I see so many people making this mistake that I feel like I have to say something.

Opinions can be wrong. Here's an example:

"Led Zeppelin/The Beatles/Pink Floyd fucking blows."

Obviously, everyone is entitled to have an opinion, but having that particular one makes you a miserable human being, and it's so far outside the realm of truth that it should pretty much subject you to ridicule until you learn the error of your ways.

There are many other examples.

 

[Flynn]

I would say since the 2005 Oscars when Million Dollar Baby won and The Incredibles wasn't nominated.

1942 - How Green Was My Valley won best picture over Citizen Kane.

 

[Green Shinobi]

1942 - How Green Was My Valley won best picture over Citizen Kane.

The world wasn't ready for Citizen Kane at that point.

 

[Defuser]

Spoiler

-The whole alien thing at the end of the movie. I would have much preferred that the alien skull not be explained, and left to the audience's imagination whether or not it's from an extraterrestrial origin. However, they decided to beat us over the head at the end of the movie and let us know that it IS an alien skull, nothing else.

Wut,it's already explained and shown during the middle of the movie.

 

[TAJ]

This one scene is better than all of Crystal Skull combined:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=cEbQKTYeDis.

That's a great scene, but his measurements would have been way off. He should have run his tape measure to the side of that bump and run it under the arches instead of over the top.

 

[Prime crotch]

Loved it, sometimes a bit too goofy though, like with Tarzan leboof, but overall a great sequel and a fun movie. One thing it made me realise is how good of an action director Spielberg is and Harrison is in way better shape than I though.

 

[SCULLIBUNDO]

That's not an opinion, that's a belief. Opinions can't be wrong. I don't know if you're joking or not, but I see so many people making this mistake that I feel like I have to say something.

I was joking.

However, opinions can be mis-informed. I don't accept that people are entitled to their opinions, because they're not. People are entitled to their informed opinions. Now considering most people bitching about the new movie seem to have a history with the old ones, I'd say most people are entitled to their opinions. But there are also clearly some people who rip on its merits as a piece of filmmaking who clearly have no knowledge of the subject and are essentially just running their mouths.

 

[SantaC]

Even Mummy 3 will shit all over this movie.

 

[temp]

I was joking.

However, opinions can be mis-informed. I don't accept that people are entitled to their opinions, because they're not. People are entitled to their informed opinions. Now considering most people bitching about the new movie seem to have a history with the old ones, I'd say most people are entitled to their opinions. But there are also clearly some people who rip on its merits as a piece of filmmaking who clearly have no knowledge of the subject and are essentially just running their mouths.

It seems to me that there are two kinds of ways to rate movies: artistic merit and merit of personal enjoyment. I'm not sure I really know how to articulate what artistic merit even is, but I'd say that people are entitled to their opinion of personal enjoyment no matter what. Actually I don't know if a rating of artistic merit can actually even be called an opinion instead of a belief. Sorry, man, I don't want to go off on a tangent here.

 

[SCULLIBUNDO]

It seems to me that there are two kinds of ways to rate movies: artistic merit and merit of personal enjoyment. I'm not sure I really know how to articulate what artistic merit even is, but I'd say that people are entitled to their opinion of personal enjoyment no matter what. I'm not sure if a rating of artistic merit can actually even be called an opinion instead of a belief. Sorry, man, I don't want to go off on a tangent here.

People can absolutely have an opinion that correlates to artistic merit, given that it's an informed opinion. One person might think the script was poorly paced and written, that the director showed good restraint or 'phoned it in' etc.

 

[Anasui Kishibe]

:lol

Since when do Oscars not mean anything?

The Oscars aren't like the Grammy's. It takes more than popularity to win an Oscar.

since Scorsese's best movies. I'll be generous and say the eighties

or Hitchcock.

 

[FunkyMunkey]

LOL at there being INDIANA JONES elitists.

Fuck you guys. Learn to go the movies and have fun, jesus. I can just imagine you haters sitting by yourself with your indiana jones watches on and lotion ready expecting the same shit from 20 years ago.

"OMG LIEK

Spoiler

aliens

?! This has TOTALLY ruined the jones franchise and i've seen better shit in in gas station bathrooms! Mummy 1 was better than this crap! Wah wah wahhhhhhhh"

Point is this: Normal people who went in to have fun did just that, they had fun. The movie will gross millions and another will arrive i'm sure. Indy is waaay older. He has aged and changed and the movie formula will too. If you want the EXACT same thing from years ago, watch the movies from years ago.

We went through this same shit when Star Wars ep 1-3 came out, I swear.

 

[temp]

People can absolutely have an opinion that correlates to artistic merit, given that it's an informed opinion. One person might think the script was poorly paced and written, that the director showed good restraint or 'phoned it in' etc.

Yeah but to say that you have to say what artistic merit is. What's a well-paced or written script if it isn't a script that, I don't know, is conducive to being enjoyed and appreciated by audiences? I mean, if you assume that's what artistic merit is, then it's something you could quantify and analyze and state facts about, and what a lot of people call an "opinion" about the artistic merit of a movie would just be their belief of what the true artistic merit of it actually is.

I honestly don't really know what artistic merit is, though. I think if you really think about it you'd have problems putting it into words, too. But I think there's a distinction between opinions and beliefs, and an argument about artistic merit can't be wholly subjective. If you say that it is subjective, then the artistic merit of a movie would vary from person to person, and then it just becomes the same thing as personal enjoyment, which doesn't really make sense.

 

[Amir0x]

Koepp just stitched together previous scripts into this one. The main three wanted to make a 4th Indy movie so bad that they eventually gave up trying to find a script that all 3 would like and instead hired Koepp to put together the best pieces from the rejected drafts. This happened shortly after Lucas rejected Frank Darabont's script which apparently Spielberg and Ford like quite a lot. Jeff Nathanson's script was apparently the backbone, as he got a story credit, but there are also pieces from other scripts, in particular Jeb Stuart's Indiana Jones and the Saucer Men From Mars script. Hence where that line in the movie came from. I have no idea how much of Darabont's script made it in as no one has ever said what his entailed other than that it included Marion. Which is a shame since Frank claims that Spielberg called it "the best draft of anything since Raiders of the Lost Ark." And for the record, Shyamalan never even wrote a script.

I fucking hate George Lucas.

I literally want all his life's riches taken away from him, and him to live squalid the rest of his fucking days on this Earth. Ruiner of good!

 

[Anasui Kishibe]

I don't blame Lucas for the prequels since I put em up there with the sequels, quality wise, but ruining Indiana Jones is a hard thing to swallow.
Here's Darabont exact quotes

"“It was a tremendous disappointment and a waste of a year,” Darabont told MTV. “It showed me how badly things can go. I spent a year of very determined effort on something I was very excited about, working very closely with Steven Spielberg and coming up with a result that I and he felt was terrific. He wanted to direct it as his next movie, and then suddenly the whole thing goes down in flames because George Lucas doesn’t like the script.”


“I told him he was crazy. I said, ‘You have a fantastic script. I think you’re insane, George.’ You can say things like that to George, and he doesn’t even blink. He’s one of the most stubborn men I know.”


I consider Darabont overrated, but the fact Spielberg liked it really makes me think what this movie could have been, and that's a damn shame

 

[Spotless Mind]

Yeah reading those Darabont quotes saddens me. No doubts in my mind that Darabont's would have been much better than what we got.

What really brought down this version from being truly great was the obvious George Lucas influences that infested the script.

 

[DaMan121]

Just came back, and overall loved it. Dunno where to place it among the rest, but it IS Indy. Loved pretty much all of it except the first meeting between Indy and Spalko - the dialogue was awful and Ford's delivery was very wooden, after that though, it was spot on. The action set pieces rocked, loved them all... ok, maybe the monkey swinging bit was too much, but it was obvious that each part of the movie was basically an ode to Raiders,Doom and Crusade, that particularly bit was the over the top Doom in every way.

 

[layzie1989]

This one scene is better than all of Crystal Skull combined:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=cEbQKTYeDis.

It has all the elements Crystal Skull lacked: the immense feeling of discovery and awe, amazing music, a real sense of tension and danger, and beautiful imagery.

No wonder I was disappointed.

Spoiler

I thought the part leading up to and them being inside the alien chamber for the first time with all the skeletons was freaking amazing. My jaw was dropped at that point. When the skull jumped towards the skeleton and it started to move, I was blown away by how cool that part was.

i really really liked the action sequences in this movie. I liked the rocket scene, the car scene, the ant scene, but not the monkey scene. The car chase was awesome, and I felt a lot of suspense watching this movie.

One of my favorite moments was him walking in front of the mushroom cloud. That was an amazing shot, worthy of a special edition cover

I think the movie was great with tiny exceptions at the end.

Spoiler

the part with blanchett's character dying just didnt settle right with me. it seemed too uninspired, like they tried to go raiders but didnt have the balls to melt her face.

also the refrigerator scene didnt make sense to me. just because it's lead lined doesnt mean it's indestructable

 

[Cheebs]

I consider Darabont overrated, but the fact Spielberg liked it really makes me think what this movie could have been, and that's a damn shame

Darabonts script had the aliens and the flying fridge you know.

I read the giant making of book. Lucas's story outline contained nearly every problem you have with the movie in 1992. And they all were in Darabonts script. Everyone stuck to Lucas's story outline. Darabont had the ants, the fridge, the doom town, the rocket sled, the alien....etc

About the only story element Darabont came up with himself was Marion. The Russians in the story outline kidnapped a archeologist female that had no relation to Indy before and they fell in love and still got married.

And she was a single mom still, but her kid was a 13 year old girl. It was changed to Mutt well after the Darabont draft.

The story was VERY consistently the same since Lucas's outline in 1992. Darabont would not have saved any of the problem you had with it at all.

 

[Prime crotch]

also the refrigerator scene didnt make sense to me. just because it's lead lined doesnt mean it's indestructable

The lead was to protect Indy from the radiation, and fridges were sturdier back then but sure it would probably break apart when it came crashing down but it would ruin such a fun scene.

 

[Cheebs]

Also guys if you think Lucas has lost his touch now wait till Indy 5. Cause he came up with nearly all the set pieces and the McGuffin for this one well before he did the prequels.

Indy 5 is ALL post-prequels George Lucas.

Oh and boxoffice whores: Indiana Jones held stronger on Sat. than expected and is now projected to make $152.78M in its opening memorial day 5 day weekend.

 

[SantaC]

the best scene in the entire movie was when they went down that grave or whatever, and even that had its ridiculous moments.

Spoiler

So you wouldnt feel pain at all even if you were stung by a bigger scorpion?

 

[AniHawk]

Also guys if you think Lucas has lost his touch now wait till Indy 5. Cause he came up with nearly all the set pieces and the McGuffin for this one well before he did the prequels.

Indy 5 is ALL post-prequels George Lucas.

Oh and boxoffice whores: Indiana Jones held stronger on Sat. than expected and is now projected to make $152.78M in its opening memorial day 5 day weekend.

Should make more than any other entry to the series.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

the best scene in the entire movie was when they went down that grave or whatever, and even that had its ridiculous moments.

Spoiler

So you wouldnt feel pain at all even if you were stung by a bigger scorpion?

Spoiler

Sure there'd be pain, but tons of things in these movies cause pain without being fatal. A quick check on Wikipedia about how venomous scorpions are says "Scorpion venoms are optimized for action upon other arthropods and therefore most scorpions are relatively harmless to humans; stings produce only local effects (such as pain, numbness or swelling)." I guess perhaps it would've been more realistic if Mutt had reminded us of his numbness and swelling while they were cutting up conquistadorial burial cloths, but hey.

 

[Cheebs]

Should make more than any other entry to the series.

Well ticket prices were a lot different back then. Even so it will break 300 million. Which is even when adjusted for inflation the best Harrison Ford has done in a long long long long time.

 

[PrivateWHudson]

Here's to hoping that the next movie (Indiana Jones V or

Spoiler

Mutt Jones I

) will go back to an easily recognizable treasure. I really like "Oh shit Indy's looking for the _______!" moments in the odd numbered movies. As mentioned in this thread, Atlantis would be fun, but I wonder if they could do it justice visually without going overboard on CGI.

It really was fun enough to keep me interested in the franchise and I'm looking forward to a follow up, unlike the Star Wars prequels.

 

[DarkJediKnight]

I love the Indiana Jones movies and this one felt too forced and way too comical. A very average movie IMO.

 

[Cheebs]

It really was fun enough to keep me interested in the franchise and I'm looking forward to a follow up, unlike the Star Wars prequels.

I also think since Indy 5 wont be their first in nearly 20 years they wont be nearly so rusty. Not to say I didn't enjoy Indy IV, it was fun.