Hcoregamer00
The 'H' stands for hentai.
Cooter said:
It makes sense.....
in backwards land
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Official March NPD Thread (The story? PS3 = weak, SW sales = insane)
- Thread starter sonycowboy
- Start date
It makes sense.....
Rancid Mildew said:
First off, im pretty sure Sony execs have come out and said straight up that Blu Ray is the reason for the high price. Secondly, no matter how much of a benefit BR is to the hardware and technology behind the games, it is really a non issue since it isnt profitable for third parties to develop exclusively for the PS3. Any game developed for PS3 by third parties must also be able to run on 360 in order for them to turn a profit on the game. Untill exclusives can turn a profit, expect the PS3 to continue to flownder.
Master Z said:
I just don't get the feeling Sony cares anymore. They've pretty much played the game the wrong way since day 1. I got caught up in launch hype (and I loved my PS2) and got one, and now I realize that due to mistakes Sony made along the way, the PS3 is going to end up with fewer and fewer third party exclusives (if any), and inferior versions of next-gen games due to the lack of PS3 being the leadplatform for the now multiplatform third party games.
Now, normally I wouldn't mind Western games doing this, but now Eastern games are as well as Sony completely botched the game there. Nintendo had its finger on the pulse of gaming in Japan (and this is increasingly becoming the same pulse as in America!) and played the game the way they felt the public would go. Sony just picked the wrong way and it's going to hurt them now.
The fact the PS3 is selling so poorly is only going to cement the "multiplatform domino effect," and it's a shame. I really, really like the PS3. It's a nice looking machine with a slick interface, and it will eventually be populated with games from all the Sony devs that I love. It's just obvious to me that it's going to be the equivalent of the GameCube for me...in many ways.
I'm kind of a little upset right now. I really have no problem with Nintendo running away with this whole war thing, but I'm a little peeved because of their stance on technology. I'm not "anti-waggle" for any inherent reason like a lot of people are, but I do like next-gen power and it is clearer by the day it's just not where the industry is headed.
Ultimately, I'm going to have all three consoles (I do already) with lots of games I want to play on each. I just think that each console fundamentally is missing some one thing that I wish it had. The PS2 was really the perfect machine.
...eh, it's not worth getting worked up over. I can't wait for the first "BITTER TEARS" reply, because really, there's nothing more derivative and clichéd at this point.
Y2Kevbug11 said:
Actually its a valid post, and no reason for the bitter tears.
I would say this though, There was no reason to expect PS2 like Software library on the PS3. This isnt even about its Price (Which is obviously way to high for the current market). The PS3 was simply not gonna get the smaller, niche/experimental type games simply because PS3 development is too expensive. Why make an "okami" type game when you can make Cars 3 or Sports Game 07 edition. From the get go, you should have seen this coming. Regardless of sales or console prices.
Norse
Member
Sony doesnt know what the hell they are doing...they spn so much they dont remember what excuse to use next....Blu ray is th next big theng they say.....we are laying off all these people due to digital distrobution they say......so why have bluray if you are moving to more digital distrobution? I thought you said blu ray was needed for next gen gaming?
Oh, and reember the big press release about the new Bond movie being the first blu ray to ship 100,000 units? Well, last total shown shows over half have yet to sell. LG making dual format players already and samsung shipping theirs in July....but smasungs will be 100% hd dvd compatibe, unlike LG model which just plays the hd dvd movieand no extras.
MS best course of action is to wait for ps3 to drop price first...at least until ps3 starts to threaten 360 monthly sales numbers.
Oh, and reember the big press release about the new Bond movie being the first blu ray to ship 100,000 units? Well, last total shown shows over half have yet to sell. LG making dual format players already and samsung shipping theirs in July....but smasungs will be 100% hd dvd compatibe, unlike LG model which just plays the hd dvd movieand no extras.
MS best course of action is to wait for ps3 to drop price first...at least until ps3 starts to threaten 360 monthly sales numbers.
Rancid Mildew
Banned
JB1981 said:
Yeah. Lair looks like a killer and has me all giddy. However, if I were Sony and I had a chance to do this all over again for my company and investors, Cell would be the first on my chopping block.
Grecco said:
Oh, I wasn't even considering niche games. I'm very happy the PS2 got what it did, but primarily I loved the games that Sony either developed or had their paws all over (Soul Calibur 3, for example).
I had an expectation that they would "take care" of console owners like Microsoft was doing in securing exclusives, etc. Sony just has decided to go in a different direction, and I should have waited!
I'm not emotional or anything. In fact, I'm typing this inbetween doing some math homework. GAF is not usually a cathartic experience for me, so save the quips (not grecco).
Sometimes you're just surprised at the way things unfold is all.
Hcoregamer00
The 'H' stands for hentai.
Rancid Mildew said:
Mine would be Blu-Ray.
Ether_Snake
å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®
bc226 said:
YES YES THIS IS THE ULTIMATE PLAN! They are so clever at Sony they decided to release a console people won't buy even in Japan to lose a lucrative business in the hopes that these non-selling consoles will find themselves magically into people's houses and DEMAND to be fed with Blu-Ray discs. And how do they achieve this? With a throw of dice, the Paper-RPG kind of dice with 100 numbers, and they are better on the double 0.
Ingenious!
Of All Trades
Member
Do we know how much SSX Blur sold? I remember a few people claiming that the terrible sales in Feb were because of the short Feb sales period, and would be made up for by the full month of March..
Hcoregamer00 said:
the whole thing would have to be revisited
sony should have stayed at the bargaining table with toshiba long enough to work out a deal on the hi-def movie wars and left the ps3 out of it. then the sce guys should have budgeted for a system they could sell for $300 without losing an arm and leg while doing it. but that's hindsight, and there's no changing the past. the current ps3 is what they are going to have to live with and somehow figure out a way to make it work.
I don't understand why people are so upset over the PS3 when the 360 is doing well and SW sales are just awesome. I'm sure support for it will continue and any need you have for next-generation games can be easily be provided on the system. The only real reason to get a PS3 right now is first party games which are not looking better than MS's first party games until at least 2008 (since we still don't know what they are offering in 08 mostly).
Ether_Snake
å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®
Rancid Mildew said:
Careful people, the game is NOT out yet, don't jump to conclusions based on a few vids, we know shit really until it hits the shelves sadly.
And quite frankly I think all publishers would be happy if they heard that a new iteration of the PS3 with no BluRay support was released. Yeah the 5 games already released would get shafted, and the ones to be released soon would be screwed somewhat, but who cares when you might go the way of the Dreamcast.
Y2Kevbug11 said:
I understand your concern but I think you're overreacting a little bit here. It's still way too early to say that they're going to lose all their third party exclusives, or that in the future all multiplatform games will be inferior. Do you think that the development enviroment for PS3 will not improve? And sure, the Wii is dominating Japan but that doesn't mean that true next-gen games will not be made for the PS3. The PS3 has alot of great games (or games with great potential) coming out this year and next. I would just focus on that and have fun man!
Y2Kevbug11 said:
The more I think about all this. The more it reminds me of the 2D to 3D transition that the video game industry went through.
I read a post like yours. And I can't help but remember back when the PS1 and N64 launched. I was horrified at what they'd done to my beloved hobby. The games I lived and breathed were glorious sprite based 2D. Beautiful characters and complicated detailed art. Then they thrust huge polygons and flat textures down my throat and I gagged. I became disenfranchised with console gaming for a number of years, and didn't come back until late into the PS2s life.
Interestingly enough. I haven't had a problem with the 3D to 'waggle' transition. In fact I've taken to it with much enthusiasm.
It's quite an interesting time. And I wonder if many of the hardcore gamers of today will leave gaming for a while until the new style of gaming catches up with their visual presentation expectations (re: my feelings toward first generation 3D games).
Odysseus said:
Exactly what I would have done. When the Cell+Cell design fell through, I would have scrapped the entire thing.
Looking back at it, there was no reason the PS3 had to be rushed to market. Sony probably could have skipped a cycle if they wanted to; hell, the PS2's performance in the American market demonstrates that people still want the thing.
I would have used parts designed to be developer friendly. I would have put it into a small case. I would have given it a lot of RAM and I would have sold it at 299. This is regardless of whether or not it matches the 360...but considering the PS3 came out a year later, it probably could have done that!
edit: Please don't paint me with too harsh a brush. I have no problem with waggle and I enjoy the wii a lot. I simply wish it was a little more capable technically. I don't think it's equivalent to the 2d->3d transition.
Really, I think that would make people pissed off. I mean, if the new version of the PS3 was cheaper, then the consumers would naturally go for that one if it had the same games as the blu-ray version. Furthermore, the tens of thousands of unsold copy of blu-ray games would most likely NOT be sold since people would rather get the DVD versions to play on their DVD version PS3s. Maybe the publishers wouldn't care because they would have already sold them to the retailers, but I'm sure the retailers wouldn't be happy knowing that the chances of them selling off their blu-ray ps3 game stock would be slim.Ether_Snake said:
Rancid Mildew
Banned
Ravager61 said:
You think BR is the only reason why it's so expensive? Recent breakdowns of the component cost indicate that while expensive, it is nowhere near as much of a burden as it was in November. With the blue laser diode manufacturing process now perfected and getting cheaper every day, it wouldn't have been unreasonable for Sony to take a low risk bet and price the PS3 100-200 dollars lower at launch, making the competition irrelevant and winning the format war faster. Of course with all the money Sony poured into research, that would have been unacceptable but if they had gone with something other than Cell, there would have been revenue available to make that bet.
If Sony had been price competitive and sold millions right out of the gate, you wouldn't see the hesitancy to announce new PS3 titles or the withdrawl of exclusives since the massive userbase would make BD development viable and profitable. Of course this is just an exercise in fantasy but to me, it just makes more sense than the launch strategy. Right now, it all seems futile since the snowball has begun to roll but when we get retrospective pieces in the future on Sony's overnight decline, BR would not be a fair item to pounce on especially since it will be the new gaming standard in the future.
I'm not sure the latter parts of your post make sense. The PS3 may get the more definitive and detailed versions of the game. It isn't that hard to downscale or use multiple disks.
Attack You
Member
Well, since we're back on the topic of Blu-Ray, maybe we can get some opinion on something I don't feel like making a new thread about.
A lot of arguments for 25GB Blu-Ray have been for high-res artwork, uncompressed audio, and uncompromised assets or whatever. And, in extreme cases, we have 50GB Blu-Ray discs. I have at least that much correct, don't I? So, do we have PC games that have 20+GB installs? Don't they generally have high-res art assets to take advantage of the typical display? Even when multi-disc games have a lot of redundant data, a hard drive for installs can render disc swaps irrelevant. Is the PS3 really supposed to regularly have even higher quality assets than a competent PC effort? If so, why is everyone saying that PS3 graphics are already rendered obsolete by DX10 via Crysis? Does anyone know the install reqs. on Crysis?
I think Sony largely overestimated its need to supply such a huge, "unconstrained" canvas for artists to work with. Disregarding the Wii entirely, the 360 is still being tapped into and probably will be for the remainder of the decade (if the PS2 and God of War 2 is any indication). Something doesn't quite add up in regards for the need of Blu-Ray. It rubs me wrong -- not just because of it being an added expense factored into the console's price, but because it feels excessive.
A lot of arguments for 25GB Blu-Ray have been for high-res artwork, uncompressed audio, and uncompromised assets or whatever. And, in extreme cases, we have 50GB Blu-Ray discs. I have at least that much correct, don't I? So, do we have PC games that have 20+GB installs? Don't they generally have high-res art assets to take advantage of the typical display? Even when multi-disc games have a lot of redundant data, a hard drive for installs can render disc swaps irrelevant. Is the PS3 really supposed to regularly have even higher quality assets than a competent PC effort? If so, why is everyone saying that PS3 graphics are already rendered obsolete by DX10 via Crysis? Does anyone know the install reqs. on Crysis?
I think Sony largely overestimated its need to supply such a huge, "unconstrained" canvas for artists to work with. Disregarding the Wii entirely, the 360 is still being tapped into and probably will be for the remainder of the decade (if the PS2 and God of War 2 is any indication). Something doesn't quite add up in regards for the need of Blu-Ray. It rubs me wrong -- not just because of it being an added expense factored into the console's price, but because it feels excessive.
Eh, I'm not going to worry about any of this. I didn't expect a $600 system to come flooding out of the gates with DS type numbers. Admittedly, I didn't expect it to be this low either. I figured it would sort of be in the middle.
I have a PS3 and a 360 (and PS2 of course), so right now, I'm fine. PS2 is still chugging away with a gang of RPGs on the way and more I still need to pick up, 360 is getting good games (provided mine doesn't die on me, in which case I WON'T be replacing it), and PS3 has and will have it's games too.
Even looking at the absolutely worst scenerio here, which is stupid since the system is 5 months old, how bad off would the PS3 be? Sega Saturn type of bad? Shit, considering how people LOVE to proclaim their love for that machine from the rooftops, that wouldn't be that bad at all (I still need to snipe one of those off ebay too...).
I figure between PS2, PS3, and 360. I'm good.
I have a PS3 and a 360 (and PS2 of course), so right now, I'm fine. PS2 is still chugging away with a gang of RPGs on the way and more I still need to pick up, 360 is getting good games (provided mine doesn't die on me, in which case I WON'T be replacing it), and PS3 has and will have it's games too.
Even looking at the absolutely worst scenerio here, which is stupid since the system is 5 months old, how bad off would the PS3 be? Sega Saturn type of bad? Shit, considering how people LOVE to proclaim their love for that machine from the rooftops, that wouldn't be that bad at all (I still need to snipe one of those off ebay too...).
I figure between PS2, PS3, and 360. I'm good.
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
GOW2 owns!! :O
Ether_Snake
å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®
They had ABSOLUTELY NO REASON to attempt to make a kickass console as far as the included tech was concerned. They just had to match MS, and beat it with an equal or lower price, and rely on their brand power to remain number one.
Everything would be different right now, their situation would be a much better in Japan too, and they could focus more on the PSP/PS2/PS3 trio. They would have had a much higher support from developers and publishers. They would not be in this mess.
The worst in all this is how this will affect the market's expansion. If Sony is out, MS will NOT have the brand-recognition to keep on attracting more people to game world. Whenever people go buy a TV, a Laptop, etc., they are also exposed to the Playstation brand. MS has a lot more difficulties to get new people into the gaming market, most of their "converts" are from the PC gaming scene, they are not new gamers.
Nintendo alone can't do it, the Sony/Nintendo scene is what is responsible for making the market continue to expand as it has until now.
Everything would be different right now, their situation would be a much better in Japan too, and they could focus more on the PSP/PS2/PS3 trio. They would have had a much higher support from developers and publishers. They would not be in this mess.
The worst in all this is how this will affect the market's expansion. If Sony is out, MS will NOT have the brand-recognition to keep on attracting more people to game world. Whenever people go buy a TV, a Laptop, etc., they are also exposed to the Playstation brand. MS has a lot more difficulties to get new people into the gaming market, most of their "converts" are from the PC gaming scene, they are not new gamers.
Nintendo alone can't do it, the Sony/Nintendo scene is what is responsible for making the market continue to expand as it has until now.
I'm actually wondering if it's really worth Sony's time removing the Blu-Ray player in the PS3, I mean is removing the ability to play the movies really going to make it that much cheaper? They can't remove the drive altogether because all PS3 games already take advantage of it. In fact it would probably hurt future games more if they did given how Kojima and S-E have been talking about taking advantage of the space.
Y2Kevbug11 said:
that's the thing. with sony being an electronics company, i have to believe their engineers and partners could have easily designed something comparable to xbox 360 with that additional year of development time and they could have made it for less. does that mean they wouldn't lose money on each unit at the beginning? of course not, but that's par for the non-nintendo course in this industry. the ps3 didn't need to be what it is, but sony's decision to forego settlement with toshiba pushed it this direction, and (of course) krazy ken's lack of a leash pushed it even more. the 2006 version of 2000's ps2 is all they needed for six or seven more years of domination, but they chose to make something else. well, good luck with that.
Ether_Snake
å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®
Attack You said:
They could have huge textures on disc, but then you are stuck with 512mb of ram, so unless you are playing a game where you move from empty rooms to empty rooms, you will run out of RAM (a 1024x1024 texture can take up to 1mb of space, just to give you an idea, now add all the textures, models, animations, and stuff needed for the engine, you are busting that tiny 512mb real quickly).
Bearillusion
Banned
You're a fickle bunch.
I think for PC games, things are usually compressed, by a lot I think. I mean, I don't think there are any game installs that take up 10 GB of space. We all know that there are games on consoles that exceed that.Attack You said:
Uncompressing data takes up CPU cycles which could be used for other things. That may be fine for PCs because naturally their processors are more likely better at decompressing data while doing other things. Console CPUs were designed for much thinner array of processes and therefore might not be as adept at decompressing data and playing games at the same time as PCs are.
This is all a guess, but it's the only thing I can think of for as to how PCs games are compressed so much without it being too burdening for the system.
Odysseus said:
Mostly agree, but I don't know if Sony would necessarily dominate, at least in Japan. I know some of it is price, but I do think Nintendo has tapped into something pretty special with the controller. I think Nintendo would be doing very well. 360...would be destroyed.
schuelma said:
Yeah, that's basically what I think. I think Nintendo and Sony would have divided up the globe or what have you (or divided up each country even) and Microsoft would be in a bit of trouble.
Instead, Nintendo did what it wanted and basically is cheaper than everyone else and Sony ate all its perceived and real advantages in taking on MS.
Ether_Snake
å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®
Another thing, since the PS3 has so little RAM when you consider how much space is available on disc; what CAN you use the disc space for? Well you could put MORE textures, MORE assets, MORE characters and animations, but that implies making bigger games, and for what? If FFXII was three times bigger would it have sold more? Unlikely. Then you think about how games are often ported, how would they port a game of such size to the 360? They couldn't just compress the added assets because they are already at the equivalent size of the average 360 game, there is just more of them. So it would end up on multiple discs on 360. Therefore what would the Blu-Ray give us as an advantage? Not having to swap discs.
Yay. That was worth it.
EDIT: Also am I the only who thinks the recent jobcuts announcement in Europe are a sign of things to come; either Sony is trying to make its losses back, or they are trying to save cash for a price drop?
Yay. That was worth it.
EDIT: Also am I the only who thinks the recent jobcuts announcement in Europe are a sign of things to come; either Sony is trying to make its losses back, or they are trying to save cash for a price drop?
Y2Kevbug11 said:
that's the other thing, we'll basically never know.
wii is benefiting from a number of factors. warning: anecdotal evidence below.
a guy i work with told me this week that he bought a wii. dude owned a ps2 and mostly bought stuff he could enjoy with his kids. he told me about all the cool things he could do with a wii, talked about wii bowling and being able to download games (which he thought was a unique feature, but nevermind that), and all the usual stuff. then he literally listed the reasons he bought it. it's new, it's something different, and it's not overly expensive. i didn't ask him to prioritize his reasons because it ultimately isn't important. but my assumption is that a ps3 priced in the same neighborhood as the ps2 at launch would have kept him and many others on board with the playstation family. but maybe not. we'll just never know.
what we do know is that he's gone, he has switched. and he's not someone likely to go out and buy a ps3 in the future once the price has come down because he's not the type of gamer that is going to want to own multiple systems.
Ether_Snake said:
This is a funny post considering 1) your avatar and 2) Kojima saying he loves to have BR to work with.
I'm giving it some time. Who knows what can happen in 2-3 years time. The PS3 could be dead by then, or Sony drops the zelbomben and drops the price to $250, blows the roof off, and still make a profit on the consoles. Who knows.
Yep. It's true when it is said that Sony could only really LOSE consumers this gen because of their record-setting performance last gen, but I do think they could have minimized it by stressing "Playstation continuity."
Someone who liked PS2 for casual games or family experiences is probably going to Wii, hardcore has obviously already picked up a 360, and PS3 kind of has this nebulous identity that says nothing except, "I'm like a 360, but I'm hella expensive. Oh and I have those Sony games you love."
I just think the vast majority of people don't know enough about games to give a crap about manufacturers. It's why Nintendo couldn't do it with the N64 and why Sony won't be able to with the PS3.
Not that it won't be a great console, but the PS3 has lost the continuity we saw in PS1->PS2.
Someone who liked PS2 for casual games or family experiences is probably going to Wii, hardcore has obviously already picked up a 360, and PS3 kind of has this nebulous identity that says nothing except, "I'm like a 360, but I'm hella expensive. Oh and I have those Sony games you love."
I just think the vast majority of people don't know enough about games to give a crap about manufacturers. It's why Nintendo couldn't do it with the N64 and why Sony won't be able to with the PS3.
Not that it won't be a great console, but the PS3 has lost the continuity we saw in PS1->PS2.
Odysseus said:
No, I think we will have a pretty good idea if Nintendo brought new people into gaming or not.
But I agree that they would not have won so easily if the other two were putting up a fight.
Although, at the other hand just look at the number of cards they still have not played:
no leveraging of DS connectivity
no Wii Music
no Wii Health
no online
no colors
CONSTRAINED PRODUCTION
I wonder what would happen if Nintendo went all out as opposed to what they are doing right now.
Hcoregamer00
The 'H' stands for hentai.
Odysseus said:
That's the funny part.
Hindsight is 20/20.
5 years down the line when we are talking about "what did sony do wrong?" After coming fresh from the highest selling console ever made and the highest attach ratio ever seen on a console to the PS3.
There is no doubt that what happened from its price announcement from E3 2006 onwards will be broken down an analyzed from here to eternity.
Ether_Snake
å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®
Kintaro said:This is a funny post considering 1) your avatar and 2) Kojima saying he loves to have BR to work with.
I'm giving it some time. Who knows what can happen in 2-3 years time. The PS3 could be dead by then, or Sony drops the zelbomben and drops the price to $250, blows the roof off, and still make a profit on the consoles. Who knows.
Yeah a big MGS fan (and FF fan), but I'm not buying a PS3 until things clear up, and I don't like it when Sony makes stupid moves. Plus, Kojima says a lot of stuff
As for the PS3's future, I do want a price cut, but they have to announce one SOON, otherwise developers and publishers will have already readjusted their sight and the future will be set, they won't go back to make exclusives or whatever if Sony waits much longer before lowering the price. The games will be set, people will have their consoles already, publishers and developers will have made up their minds. Worst of all many might really think that "next-gen" gaming in of itself is ****ed, they'll make "cheaper" games in the hopes of making more money, and I bet they'll just screw up anyway because when everyone puts their eggs in the same basket they start to crush one another.
Hcoregamer00
The 'H' stands for hentai.
Odysseus said:
Of all the consoles I have I got more games for the PS2 than any other one, that is because they got me with the amazing RPG lineup it had.
I would love to buy a PS3 if they kept the same pricing scheme and strategy because it would all but ensure that it would have everything I liked from the PS1 and PS2. Large 3rd party, great first party software, large RPG lineup, and much much more.
I wouldn't care it if was more of the same because PS1 and PS2 had some of the best RPG's ever released on it and more of this same in this instance would have been to its benefit. Having the PS3 at $600 with a sparse game lineup is not "more of the same." Hell, have any dating sims been announced for the PS3? The PS2 and PS1 had a flood of those games.