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[Schopenhauer]

I have pretty much already written Tierkreis off as being a DS cash-in/ not much of a Suikoden game, but I guess I would be willing to give it a chance if there are enough positive opinions to the contrary from people who have actually played the game.

I still can't believe they decided to go with that assy DS 3-D when 2-D sprites would look so much better.

 

[Synless]

I didn't even know about this, it looks really good!!! I have to get this!!!!

 

[Neil]

Damn, I completely forgot about this game!
Just pre-ordered

 

[Coverly]

This or Avalon Code? So hard to decide.

 

[Alcander]

Suikoden is my favorite RPG series of all time, and its really sad how this one will probably perform really poorly. Hell, I didn't even know it was coming out so soon...

I'll do my part though! It looks awesome

...I still want a now-gen Suiko though, on the Wii or otherwise. I've just never really been able to get into handheld RPGs as much as console.

 

[D-Pad]

My first Suikoden game! I honestly can't wait--it looks awesome!

This. I was instantly hooked from the previews and the pre-order goodies (everyone talked about the soundtrack). Can't wait to slip this in and play around with it. Also, I hope that low sells don't mean no more Suikoden on the DS.

 

[B.K.]

Because past Suikoden's have brought up different worlds.

I don't think that's the reason. I think that Konami just didn't know what to do with the series, so they made this one take place in another world. With the series creator gone, they probably have no idea what to do next. That's probably why IV and V were prequels.

 

[BikoBiko]

It looks awesome and I like hearing people trying to pronounce "Tierkreis". Will buy.

 

[mjc]

I've got mine reserved already, looking forward to it.

 

[soldat7]

So is this a spiritual remake of the first game? I was also interested in downloading the PS1 game on my PS3...

 

[Like the hat?]

i am going to make hundreds of hours of love to this game.

 

[Wallach]

I got the soundtrack CD a few days ago.

It's pretty good. Mind you, I've been detached from the series since the original Suikoden (outside of a brief love affair with Suikoden III), but from what I can tell it's not the same composer. It doesn't sound like it anyway; the flow of many songs is similar, but many of the strings have been replaced in favor of flutes and other winds.

Still... I am psyched to get back into Suikoden again. The original is probably still my favorite "traditional" JRPG and one of the few JRPGs I am able to go back and replay very easily.

 

[Hobbun]

Isn't the release date for this March 17? I called my local Gamestop and they aren't selling it until the 17th, which makes more sense than the 13th, as I have almost never seen games released on a Friday.

 

[B.K.]

So is this a spiritual remake of the first game?

No.

 

[Symytry]

amazon.ca not even carrying this? that's a shame...

 

[bryehn]

amazon.ca not even carrying this? that's a shame...

I pre'd mine from videogamesplus.ca, but it's $45. Shipping out March 17 along with Rune Factory Wii. Both kinda snuck up on me.

 

[leroidys]

I'm pissed about them not putting in some of the things that make suikoden suikoden, but this game just looks SO FUCKING GOOD. Day 0.

 

[decoyplatypus]

Because past Suikoden's have brought up different worlds.

Not really. I mean, it's true that other Suikoden games have introduced the idea of multiple worlds, but that's not the reason Tierkreis abandons the setting of the previous installments. The actual motivation has far more to do with sales and audience.

See this interview 1up interview with Masayuki Saruta http://www.1up.com/do/previewPage?cId=3171794&p=39:

"However, it's also true that previous Suikoden releases have been relatively niche titles. We want as many people as possible to enjoy Suikoden: Tierkreis, which is why we chose to create a new game universe, as it won't be burdened by backstory that new players wouldn't have an understanding of."

So there it is. Konami is trading in the series' greatest appeal for long-time fans on the marginal hope of creating a breakaway hit in a turn-based RPG. No use telling them that jRPGs are an irretrievably niche genre (with the obvious exceptions).

Of course, the way Saruta describes the situation, it doesn't sound like Konami had much of a choice but to attempt to reboot and capture a new audience. It reminds me a bit of what happened with Veronica Mars. The show had a loyal but tiny audience. The creators had to get the ratings up to keep the show alive, so by the third season they chucked the complicated, season-long arcs in favor of mini-arcs to accompany each mystery of the week. It didn't work. There may have been any number of reasons why the changes were ineffective, but one common argument was that a show like Veronica Mars was never going to sell to a mainstream audience (probably not true, but you see where I'm going with this). Konami may be heading in the same direction. Simplify Suikoden as much as you like, unload all that cumbersome history that intimidates new players, but the expanded audience you're looking for may not exist for this type of game. It might have been wiser to go low-budget and take advantage of the audience Suikoden already has. After all, if Atlus can turn a profit off Etrian Odyssey, Konami should be able to do just fine with Suikoden.

 

[Llyranor]

Is there any special gameplay feature about this particular combat system?

 

[gregor7777]

I refuse to believe it.

This is not happening.

Spoiler

Never played a Suikoden game, but that kind of shit usually is not a good thing.

 

[Augemitbutter]

I still can't believe they decided to go with that assy DS 3-D when 2-D sprites would look so much better.

exactly my opinion. they ruined a perfect opportunity to go back to the old lovely style. the backgrounds are very pretty, so why resort to your average ugly DS characters? damn.

 

[Munin]

I don't get the fanboy fuss. Who cares "which" world exactly it is as long as it's...you know, good?

 

[Aeana]

I don't get the fanboy fuss. Who cares "which" world exactly it is as long as it's...you know, good?

Because one of the major things Suikoden had going for it was its consistent world. It had been significantly developed over time.

 

[Krelian]

Not really. I mean, it's true that other Suikoden games have introduced the idea of multiple worlds, but that's not the reason Tierkreis abandons the setting of the previous installments. The actual motivation has far more to do with sales and audience.

See this interview 1up interview with Masayuki Saruta http://www.1up.com/do/previewPage?cId=3171794&p=39:

"However, it's also true that previous Suikoden releases have been relatively niche titles. We want as many people as possible to enjoy Suikoden: Tierkreis, which is why we chose to create a new game universe, as it won't be burdened by backstory that new players wouldn't have an understanding of."

So there it is. Konami is trading in the series' greatest appeal for long-time fans on the marginal hope of creating a breakaway hit in a turn-based RPG. No use telling them that jRPGs are an irretrievably niche genre (with the obvious exceptions).

Of course, the way Saruta describes the situation, it doesn't sound like Konami had much of a choice but to attempt to reboot and capture a new audience. It reminds me a bit of what happened with Veronica Mars. The show had a loyal but tiny audience. The creators had to get the ratings up to keep the show alive, so by the third season they chucked the complicated, season-long arcs in favor of mini-arcs to accompany each mystery of the week. It didn't work. There may have been any number of reasons why the changes were ineffective, but one common argument was that a show like Veronica Mars was never going to sell to a mainstream audience (probably not true, but you see where I'm going with this). Konami may be heading in the same direction. Simplify Suikoden as much as you like, unload all that cumbersome history that intimidates new players, but the expanded audience you're looking for may not exist for this type of game. It might have been wiser to go low-budget and take advantage of the audience Suikoden already has. After all, if Atlus can turn a profit off Etrian Odyssey, Konami should be able to do just fine with Suikoden.

That sucks....
I want a Suikoden VI...

 

[Urban Scholar]

Oh come on people, Tierkreis is a reboot on a new console. Personally if you are a long time fan I can understand why you'd be disappointed. Ok so there's no connection to the other games really. This doesn't necessarily mean the next game won't right? Plus there's a very high chance of new fans as a result. If you really enjoy the games shouldn't you at least see what's offered with this game? Can't say I'm a "real" fan having only played 3(liked it by the way) in full but I'm getting for 2 reasons.

1)To me it looks like a DS RPG cut above the others being offered this month
2)I see Suikoden right on the box.

We shouldn't fear new here folks, embrace it , move on, and better/more will come as a result(mostly).

 

[xs_mini_neo]

I refuse to believe it.

This is not happening.

Spoiler

Well, you're not alone in your disappointment...

 

[Freyjadour]

I'm a huge fan of Suikoden, but I really don't mind the shift (not that the last few have been particularly great anyhow). I honestly expect the series to die for good with every new installment, so I'm just happy to see it still kicking.

 

[Mejilan]

Greatly looking forward to this. I already have the game preordered on Amazon for the bonus goodies. That said, I probably won't get to this game for at least another 3 or so months. My portable RPG backlog is ri-cock-ulous at the moment.

 

[Sqorgar]

No use telling them that jRPGs are an irretrievably niche genre (with the obvious exceptions).

There are plenty of "obvious exceptions", especially in Japan, to the point where I don't think anyone can blame Konami for wanting Suikoden to be part of that. Suikoden is a good series and having FIVE games with a continuous storyline through TWO consoles is pretty much unheard of in a game industry that literally stops numbering games after 3 (Raven can't even count past 2). It was a good run, but let's face, Suikoden certain has the chops to be more successful than it has become and such a reboot was inevitable.

 

[Mejilan]

BTW, very nice OP, Himuro. And holy shit at the game's awesome graphics! VERY NICE!

 

[Wes]

Some of those images in the OP are beautiful. This could be the game I unwind with once my dissertation is in.

 

[BluWacky]

I'm interested in picking this up for a lot of the reasons other people are put off.

I only ever played a little of Suikoden II (I paid a ridiculous amount for it brand new from CEX or something like that in the PS2 era) and felt that time had not been kind to it, to be honest. I've never played any of the others in the series but I couldn't really see the attraction at the time.

Tierkreis doesn't come with any of the baggage, but it does come with an interesting sounding plot (

Spoiler

my understanding was that it's not just one parallel world, the whole game is about lots of different parallel worlds intersecting, which is my favourite kind of ridiculous jRPG-style plot - although if this is bollocks someone please disabuse me of this awesome notion

) and great production values. I can appreciate that for long term fans of the series invested in the story that's been built up it's probably disappointing, but for me it's a nice chance to get a fresh start with a game that does at least have a recognisable name attached to it.

And bugger me sideways, it's out in the UK on Friday (and Germany on Thursday - France is next week, don't know about Spain or Italy etc.)! Take that, Squenix/Bamco and your crappy late localisations, there's even a fair amount of voice in Tierkreis that has presumably been localised!

 

[Mejilan]

Square-Enix has largely been doing right by EU fans recently... at least as far as Dragon Quest is concerned.

 

[BluWacky]

Square-Enix has largely been doing right by EU fans recently... at least as far as Dragon Quest is concerned.

To be fair, you're right, we haven't done too badly recently. But as Star Ocean 4's just been delayed to June/July I'm feeling a little less charitable than I might have otherwise done (and I was perfectly fine with the original April release date!)

 

[Tabris]

I preordered this months ago, so I should be getting it whenever it ships from Amazon. I'm looking forward to it. Anything that causes Tabris so much pain and sorrow has to be good on some level, plus it's a new Suikoden game.

Just remember me when you're playing it. You'll be all like "I must like this game because Tabris hates it!"

I'm still conflicted on whether to get it or not. Does Himuro still post or is he banned? If he still posts, I'll wait for his opinion as he's a huge Suikoden fan.

Also for whoever posted the video for La passione commouve la storia, it really is such a perfect ending song. Here are the lyrics translated:

~All the soldiers
~Fathers, children, and fiances
~Returned to those who waited for them

~All the corpses
~Like flowers, trees, and grass
~Returned to warm nature

~Passion moves history
~The sands of time run
~Children play on the hills
~One day the pain will end

Those lyrics epitomize what every Suikoden should end like.

 

[Mejilan]

Himuro created this thread.

 

[speedpop]

Does Himuro still post or is he banned?

Himuro = Duck Amuck.


Here's to Suikoden Tierkreis 2!

 

[Johnas]

Himuro = Duck Amuck.

I wouldn't mind knowing why the name change, Himu, if it's OK to ask. You're definitely one of the more well known posters here.

Slightly more on topic, I have only barely played one Suikoden game (I think it was a demo of IV), I feel like I've been missing out. I'd like to play the first two games someday.

 

[speedpop]

I highly recommend going through the first two games. I did this a year or so ago as they were the only ones I had not played in the series before and it was worth it.

 

[Mejilan]

I plan on doing that on my PSP one of these months, and likely before hitting up this game for real.

 

[firex]

Just remember me when you're playing it. You'll be all like "I must like this game because Tabris hates it!"

I just think it's funny that we're getting a new Suikoden game and it's exactly what you didn't want (DS, 3d instead of full 2d) after all your demands when a new Suikoden was just a rumor. I brought it up because I like seeing your dreams crushed and it's just refreshing to see that karma really does exist.

 

[Mejilan]

On that note, I remember when this was still a Suiko 6 PSP rumor.
Can't say that I'm all that disappointed by this relatively recent trend of announcing games only once the brunt of development is over. I also greatly appreciate whatever efforts the major pubs have been making in getting their games localized and released in multiple territories in as short a time frame as possible.

 

[Erdrick]

I understand why they are rebooting the Suikoden series, as explained in that posted interview. I also think it's because Murayama (Sp?) has been gone for some half a decade now and they really don't know where else to go with the series.

I will buy this to support Suikoden. I am sure the game will be a quality one, as long as it retains the basic things that make Suikoden... Suikoden. A fortress, collecting troops for armies, interesting characters...

But... you see, for me, the entire flowing WORLD itself of Suikoden was the star character of the series itself. It was the only RPG series other than Dragon Quest that kept a persistent world going for so long. (DQ is usually branched into trilogies or each game has various connections to past ones, similar to how Suikoden was.)

I hope to all who are in power over this series that they DO NOT just throw away the series' rich history and characters. I hope that they will make a Suikoden VI on a console and I hope they keep making the games, period, as they are some of my favorite, ever.

I understand, howver the situation that the series is in now, and that money must be made to continue. I am disgusted with this turnabout in the sense that it is a slap to my face as a fan who has stood by this series since I bought the original in January 1997.

But this series is not Dragon Quest. The core creators, unlike with DQ are not around anymore, so it makes sense how things have turned out.

I'm basically buying this, aside from the fact that it will likely still be a very good game on it's own, because I want to prove to Konami that there are still fans of the franchise and it is worth for them to continue.

Now, is it better for me to ignore this and send them the message that this was the wrong move, and to wait for a proper Suikoden sequel? Or would doing so just be the final quiet death-knell on one of the best RPG series that people should have played more of? I want the series to survive, and if this is what it must be, then it is the lesser of two evils. I'd rather have a rebooted Suikoden than no Suikoden at all.

Besides, Maybe now this will give some of the series staff some fresh air instead of being tied to the old series roots. They could create characters and stories equal to or better than previous games. It's not like the series has ever been the same since II/Suikogaiden anyway to me. III was good, but disappointing to me after II, IV was an interesting failure, V was the first PS2 Suikoden that actually felt close to I and II, and Tactics was... well, all I recall of that was Crispan Freeman saying "SEE YOU IN HELL!!!!" in one fight and it was loaded to the gills with Fishmen. (It was not a bad game, really, and I liked the connections between IV and V.)

So, I am going into this game with a fresh mind, I guess. I expect a solid good RPG. I've gotten past the fact that it will be not connected to previous games. I look forward to it, in that sense. Lets see what Konami's Suikoden team is capable now that they have no more excuses on the scenario and character front.

Just don't forget about us longtime fans... Ok Konami? I guess, judging by previous sales of the last few games, there is not that many of us left now though...

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

Tabris is the Gremio to my McDohl. :S

<3

 

[Mamesj]

*looks at thread title*

okay, now I kinda care. Congrats himu, you got me to pay attention to the review/impressions cycle. Can *always* use a new good handheld RPG.

 

[matmanx1]

Just remember me when you're playing it. You'll be all like "I must like this game because Tabris hates it!"

I'm still conflicted on whether to get it or not. Does Himuro still post or is he banned? If he still posts, I'll wait for his opinion as he's a huge Suikoden fan.

Also for whoever posted the video for La passione commouve la storia, it really is such a perfect ending song. Here are the lyrics translated:

~All the soldiers
~Fathers, children, and fiances
~Returned to those who waited for them

~All the corpses
~Like flowers, trees, and grass
~Returned to warm nature

~Passion moves history
~The sands of time run
~Children play on the hills
~One day the pain will end

Those lyrics epitomize what every Suikoden should end like.

Is this the same song used at the end of Tierkreis? It's called 108 stars on the soundtrack but the lyrics are almost certainly in Latin (at least that's what it sounds like to me) and it's being sung by what sounds like a girl child. It's kind of sad and sweet at the same time.

 

[Augemitbutter]

I don't get the fanboy fuss. Who cares "which" world exactly it is as long as it's...you know, good?

let me guess:

you've never played a suikoden before? thats no fanboy fuss, its essential.

 

[Hours Left]

Ideal Situation: Tierkreis sells enough to motivate Konami continuing the series while not selling enough to warrent them to stay in the Tierkreis world. I'm hoping for just above mediocre sales.

And Konami's reasoning for Tierkreis's new setting doesn't even really make sense. They want to attract new players to the series, but if they decide to pursue it beyond Tierkreis, they are going to have to become familiar with the original setting and characters anyway.

Every interview I've seen about the game since the news of the new setting was released has featured the interviewers asking why they moved to this new world, and when we will return to the previous setting. The fanbase has been quite vocal about this so I can't see Konami ignoring us since Suikoden is such a cult series.

 

[decoyplatypus]

It's called 108 stars on the soundtrack but the lyrics are almost certainly in Latin (at least that's what it sounds like to me) and it's being sung by what sounds like a girl child.

Any chance it's Portuguese?

They want to attract new players to the series, but if they decide to pursue it beyond Tierkreis, they are going to have to become familiar with the original setting and characters anyway.

Or, if the Tierkreis model really is the answer, then logically Konami would create a new world for each new Suikoden game while retaining the 108 Stars, HQ, and ... I don't even know what else they consider essential if they threw out duels, strategy battles, and true runes along with the old world.

I'm still on the fence about this game. On the one hand, I don't want to support some bastardized version of Suikoden that lacks most of the series' unique attributes. On the other hand, I'm sensitive to the argument that if Tierkreis doesn't sell there won't be a Suikoden VI. We can't know of course, but I don't doubt that the situation is as bad for the series as people say. What might tip the scale for me is the fact that once you remove history, returning characters, duels, strategy battles, and the traditional map/city exploration, and then add awful character designs and bad voice acting, I'm not sure that Tierkreis is a game I would be rushing out to play if it didn't have the Suikoden label. If the reviews insist that the game is worth my time even for all the changes, then I'll pick it up and try to set aside my frustrated expectations. Otherwise, I may find myself standing shamefully by while Konami heaps dirt on Suikoden's grave.

 

[Boss Doggie]

I need Diulf pics. =/