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[Segata Sanshiro]

Well, I see it like this. Play is a perfect counter-balance to GAF. Play loves a lot, GAF hates damn near everything. I like the Yin/Yang personally.

Well, we sort of agree here in that I give GAF's consensus on games about the same worth as Play's.

 

[Oblivion]

Well, we sort of agree here in that I give GAF's consensus on games about the same worth as Play's.

I likes the cut of yer jib.


On the subject of Play, they remind me a lot of Pre-2006 IGN, giving an automatic 9, at least, for any game that had a functioning directional button.

 

[Yixian]

At least if you believe a GAFfer and end up playing the game you'll more likely end up happily surprised.

Play readers must get disappointed every time they pop in the disc.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

I likes the cut of yer jib.


On the subject of Play, they remind me a lot of Pre-2006 IGN, giving an automatic 9, at least, for any game that had a functioning directional button.

I dunno, they're different in a way. I always felt that IGN's scores didn't match up often with the review text, like someone changed the score post-hoc.

On the other hand, I feel like Play means every word they say and every score they give. They're incredibly enthusiastic, and I wouldn't want them to change because otherwise there'd be nothing to differentiate them. But they're like that friend you have that just loves everything. You still like to hear what they say about stuff, but you'd never buy something on their recommendation alone.

 

[DCharlie]

this thread is a mess.

Xbots who desperately want this game to be crap on the one hand, Sonytrons on the other side who already know the game is brilliant.

The only thing in common here beyond the obvious side taking is that hardly anyone has played the game yet everyone seems to know how great/awful it will be because Play gave it 90% / previous hype / previous negativity ..... :/

Watch as magazines get new credibility ratings depending on how they review this one... then when we get to the next big PS3 game, we can start aaaall over again.

 

[Kintaro]

this thread is a mess.

Xbots who desperately want this game to be crap on the one hand, Sonytrons on the other side who already know the game is brilliant.

The only thing in common here beyond the obvious side taking is that hardly anyone has played the game yet everyone seems to know how great/awful it will be because Play gave it 90% / previous hype / previous negativity ..... :/

Watch as magazines get new credibility ratings depending on how they review this one... then when we get to the next big PS3/360/Wii/DS game, we can start aaaall over again.

With that small fix, you, sir, have tapped into why I find this place so amazingly entertaining. The infinite ebb and flow of stupidity.

 

[nelsonroyale]

this thread is a mess.

Xbots who desperately want this game to be crap on the one hand, Sonytrons on the other side who already know the game is brilliant.

The only thing in common here beyond the obvious side taking is that hardly anyone has played the game yet everyone seems to know how great/awful it will be because Play gave it 90% / previous hype / previous negativity ..... :/

Watch as magazines get new credibility ratings depending on how they review this one... then when we get to the next big PS3 game, we can start aaaall over again.

eh, some people are looking forward to it because they like the idea of a dragon on an epic scale in a sand box environment.... As long as it get some decent reviews its mine...if I judge, its on the average of reviews...no single review generally sways me

 

[JB1981]

I can't wait to go through this for every single 1st party PS3 game that gets good reviews this fall/winter.

Actually, I'll be playing them. You guys can have your own fun.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

I can't wait to go through this for every single 1st party PS3 game that gets good reviews this fall/winter.

Actually, I'll be playing them. You guys can have your own fun.

Ah, don't be a baby. Every hyped game's first review thread is a cluster****. Yes, even ones not for Sony games.

 

[JB1981]

Ah, don't be a baby. Every hyped game's first review thread is a cluster****. Yes, even ones not for Sony games.

Hyped? I thought this game was the big bomb of the century? And keep the baby accusations to yourself. Do you even have enough money to buy a ps3?

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

Hyped? I thought this game was the big bomb of the century? And keep the baby accusations to yourself. Do you even have enough money to buy a ps3?

:lol

Let me see if I understand your position:

1) Only Sony games get their review threads ****ed up

2) Lair has not been hyped.

3) I'm too poor to buy a PS3.

Did I get all that right?

 

[PepsimanVsJoe]

The worst part is I actually agree with a ton of the PLAY scores mentioned in this thread.

I won't name specifics but eh.

That's the main reason why I've never considered writing reviews. I'm a pretty off the wall kind of person.

 

[macksplack]

Is the game even officialy gold or what?

 

[VonGak!]

Yeah but think on this for a second.

What kind of writtern impressions can you imagine reading for their Sonic next-gen review?

"The load times aren't the greatest"
"There's a bug every now and then"
"The controls take a little while to get used to"

Or let's say Bullet Witch:

"Framerate isn't perfect but it's definitely playable"
"The aiming feels off sometimes but not always"
"The main character is hot. If you don't find her attractive it's probably because you're already dead!"

I just made all of those up but hmm. The reviews in PLAY are written while completely blinded by fanboyism whether it's for(Sonic) or against(GTA) the game in question. While blinded Dave(or most of the other staff for that matter) doesn't seem interested in being completely accurate. "The load times aren't the greatest" in the real world actually means "The load times are the worst of any game ever." and "The aiming feels off sometimes but not always" could really mean "The aiming is never 100% and it makes the game very frustrating".

It doesn't help that most of the quotes are basically made up of stuff like "ooh this looks so good" and such. Play has created such a stigma about their reviews that I can't even take their word on the framerate. For all I know it could run as well as Panzer Dragoon on the Saturn.

And again I am not knocking LAIR. It should be a great game and I expect it to score 8s & 9s or hell even 10s from other reviewers. But Play? Forget it. They should just pack every issue with a syringe so you can inject the salt straight into your veins.

Takuhi's impressions sound great though. I'd rather he(or she?) put out a review. I hate escort missions but otherwise I'm too nuts for Dragons to pass on this game.

I haven't said that you knocked Lair nor do I claim to ever have read Play (never spent money on gaming mag and got plans of changing that), my only issue was writing off the person's impressions without really telling why like the reviewer having a doubtful history.

The written impressions are encouraging, and moreso since it was Casey and not some of the more...frothing...writers at Play, but it wouldn't be the first or last time that Play has glossed problems because they enjoyed a game so much.

Play (as an overall magazine) loves almost everything. It's a genuine love to be sure, but it's not particularly conducive to useful reviews.

But that can be said about many gaming outlets and one have to judge from case to case and in this specific one there was a lot of interesting info like the game being bad at guiding one.
To me it seemed like a solid review, well the parts quoted and the elaboration afterwards.

---
Sorry it has been a big Tour day today so I'm a bit on and off the net.

 

[Decado]

While this is a good sign, PLAY isn't a very reliable source, as others have mentioned.

The lack of gameplay details also makes me wonder how much of the game they played.

 

[MassiveAttack]

I can't wait to go through this for every single 1st party PS3 game that gets good reviews this fall/winter.

Actually, I'll be playing them. You guys can have your own fun.

PS3 games aren't permitted to have good reviews. Justifying a $499 price tag is simply inexcusable.

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

PS3 games aren't permitted to have good reviews. Justifying a $499 price tag is simply inexcusable.

Instead of using the woe is me routine that is routinely applied in these threads, Play magazine doesn't have a credible reviewing scale as meaning the reviews (words) never match the scores.

This is from this particular magazine review of Lair

i learned to love it
an enjoyable game can emerge from the chaos
it's difficult to tell what's going on at any given moment, thanks in part to the fact that all dragons, good or evil, look basically identical
the lack of any on-screen map or radar is frustrating
Confusing navigation and poorly explained objectives

When someone says this, that's a 9 to you? I love Killer 7 for all of it's faults, but it's at best, an 8. This review sounds apologetic.

 

[MassiveAttack]

Instead of using the woe is me routine that is routinely applied in these threads, Play magazine doesn't have a credible reviewing scale as meaning the reviews (words) never match the scores.

This is from this particular magazine review of Lair

i learned to love it
an enjoyable game can emerge from the chaos
it's difficult to tell what's going on at any given moment, thanks in part to the fact that all dragons, good or evil, look basically identical
the lack of any on-screen map or radar is frustrating
Confusing navigation and poorly explained objectives

When someone says this, that's a 9 to you? I love Killer 7 for all of it's faults, but it's at best, an 8. This review sounds apologetic.

I don't give a damn about Play. I don't buy or read any games magazines except Edge.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

I don't give a damn about Play. I don't buy or read any games magazines except Edge.

I'm a bit confused here, then. You posted in this thread...why?

 

[Madman]

I'm a bit confused here, then. You posted in this thread...why?

Now you know how I feel about the majority posts in Lair threads.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

Now you know how I feel about the majority posts in Lair threads.

I'm right behind you on this stuff, Madman. I hate it when games get sucked into system wars. They deserve better than being bullet-points in a fanman crusade.

 

[kaching]

I'm a bit confused here, then. You posted in this thread...why?

I don't particularly give a damn about Play either, but they've apparently got the first official review of a game I'm interested in...you okay with my participation?

Edit: Based on all the protests about Play, I take it I and MA aren't really the only ones in this thread who don't give a damn.

 

[Y2Kev]

I think it's wrong to attack Play Magazine here instead of the reviewer. Apparently the reviewer has a good track record and he's even come here to further elaborate.

But play really is skewed high, so the doubt is reasonable I guess.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

I don't particularly give a damn about Play either, but they've apparently got the first official review of a game I'm interested in...you okay with my participation?

Edit: Based on all the protests about Play, I take it I and MA aren't really the only one's in this thread who don't give a damn.

Well, MA came into the thread, took a shot at people who were saying "Play isn't very reliable for reviews", provided no counter-argument, and when pressed, only offered up "I don't care about Play". So what was the point?

 

[lupin23rd]

Hmmm that's odd I can't seem to quote DCharlie.

The same XBots who want it to be shit would probably be hyping it to no end if it were on the opposite side of things. And then even if it was shit, they'd all still buy it - XBox360 mandatory attach-ratio rule FTL!

 

[WickedLaharl]

Hyped? I thought this game was the big bomb of the century? And keep the baby accusations to yourself. Do you even have enough money to buy a ps3?

lol, the "you're too poor to buy a ps3!" accusation wrapped up in question form. i love it.

 

[kaching]

took a shot at people who were saying "Play isn't very reliable for reviews"

His shot was lot more generalized than that.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

His shot was lot more generalized than that.

He said: "PS3 games aren't permitted to have good reviews. Justifying a $499 price tag is simply inexcusable."

The only people in this thread I see taking issue with the review are doing so because it's Play. I see a whole lot of general trolling of Lair in here, but interestingly almost none of it mentions the titular review.

 

[Speevy]

Use Halo 3 as an example.

What's a 9?

What if Edge gave Halo 3 a 9? I'd say that's pretty good.

What if IGN gave Halo 3 a 9.0? I'd call that pretty disappointing.


We expect different things from different reviewers.

 

[CrushDance]

*Sigh* Thank God for Junkwaffle:

 

[neojubei]

funny picture.

 

[kaching]

He said: "PS3 games aren't permitted to have good reviews. Justifying a $499 price tag is simply inexcusable."

Which was in response to JB1981 bemoaning going through this same exercise for *any* good reviews of PS3 games coming out the rest of the year, not necessarily only Play reviews of PS3 games.

 

[shenmue mugen]

If Lair really turns out to have a flawless framerate during at leat 95% of the game this is gonna be one inevitable purchase

 

[JB1981]

Instead of using the woe is me routine that is routinely applied in these threads, Play magazine doesn't have a credible reviewing scale as meaning the reviews (words) never match the scores.

This is from this particular magazine review of Lair

i learned to love it
an enjoyable game can emerge from the chaos
it's difficult to tell what's going on at any given moment, thanks in part to the fact that all dragons, good or evil, look basically identical
the lack of any on-screen map or radar is frustrating
Confusing navigation and poorly explained objectives

When someone says this, that's a 9 to you? I love Killer 7 for all of it's faults, but it's at best, an 8. This review sounds apologetic.

Somehow if the review score was low, I don't think you'd be trying this hard to discredit the reviewer.

Anyway, I stopped listening to reviews a long time ago. In the age of demos and walkthrus, etc. I simply have very little need for them.

 

[Kintaro]

While this is a good sign, PLAY isn't a very reliable source, as others have mentioned.

There are no reliable sources in this industry. For every instance people cite Play for overrating something, I can do the same for every single website/magazine/blog. If that's all it takes, there's nowhere to turn. We're doomed! DOOMED!

 

[kaching]

If anyone is really interested in determining just how much Play's corrupting influence impacts the reviewer and the review in this case, we could be discussing the review history I posted a page or so back. CL's biggest discrepancy in relation to the general consensus is his much more favorable review of Yakuza, but this is almost balanced out by his relative dislike of MGA2 as compared to the general consensus in that case. Overall, he does seem to like his RPGs a bit more than others.

 

[Tiduz]

Lets wait judging the game after we actually played a demo, shall we? it could be a nice surprise, and maybe, just maybe youll actually like the game instead of judging it based on ANOTHER PERSONS definition of good or bad.

 

[Mojovonio]

Oh GAF, never change.

Btw, Speevy, weren't you complaining about people trolling the Halo 3 thread a while back?

 

[spwolf]

Somehow if the review score was low, I don't think you'd be trying this hard to discredit the reviewer.
Anyway, I stopped listening to reviews a long time ago. In the age of demos and walkthrus, etc. I simply have very little need for them.

how true

 

[Speevy]

Oh GAF, never change.

Btw, Speevy, weren't you complaining about people trolling the Halo 3 thread a while back?

I'm not trolling anything here. I've never played Lair. Apparently this reviewer has. And I've made no such comments to indicate I think I'm more qualified to critique this game.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

Somehow if the review score was low, I don't think you'd be trying this hard to discredit the reviewer.

There's a few things I need to address in this discussion, specifically Kintaro and kaching, I want to get back to your points because they are good ones, but I have to run. This thing here of JB's is a bit quicker to address and I see spwolf's on it, so I'll tackle it quickly before I go.

Since Play has a reputation for overrating games, not underrating them, it wouldn't make logical sense for someone to discredit a low review based on Play's reputation. Though you are right that there are some that will pretend to care about an issue because it suits their agenda.

 

[Mojovonio]

I'm not trolling anything here. I've never played Lair. Apparently this reviewer has. And I've made no such comments to indicate I think I'm more qualified to critique this game.

eh

How many polygons do you reckon exist in Master Chief?

How many effects are going off in the background?

If I looked closer, would I see that glistening, gigantic salt water simulation?

Are there hundreds of soldiers in the distance, readying their guns for me?

This stuff is UNPRECEDENTED in one seamless game.


And it's still ugly.

Ugly, ugly, ugly.



Ugly.

If that was posted in a Halo 3 thread, I doubt you would accept it as constructive criticism.

 

[Speevy]

If that was posted in a Halo 3 thread, I doubt you would accept it as constructive criticism.

75% of this forum thinks Halo 3 looks like an Xbox game in high definition. If I tried to take them all on, I wouldn't have time to do anything else.


Your example is poor.

 

[PepsimanVsJoe]

If anyone is really interested in determining just how much Play's corrupting influence impacts the reviewer and the review in this case, we could be discussing the review history I posted a page or so back. CL's biggest discrepancy in relation to the general consensus is his much more favorable review of Yakuza, but this is almost balanced out by his relative dislike of MGA2 as compared to the general consensus in that case. Overall, he does seem to like his RPGs a bit more than others.

Casey Loe's review history with Play:

Atelier Iris 2 7.5
Atelier Iris 3 7.5
Grandia III 9
Grim Grimoire 8.5
Metal Gear AC!D 2 6.5
Ninja Gaiden ∑ 8.5
Onimusha: Dawn of Dreams 8.5
Shadow Hearts 8.5
Snoopy vs. The Red Baron 8
Tales of the Abyss 9
Tales of the World 7
The Legend of Zelda:TP 9.5
Xenosaga Episode III 8.5
Yakuza 9.5

Well looking over this one could determine that even as a non-RPG Lair reviews really well. Then again the only remotely similar game I see in this review history to Lair is um...Snoopy vs. The Red Baron. Using Gamerankings(bad idea I know) I see that the game averages about 73%, with mostly 7.5s in the review scores.

So using some useless and idiotic speculation I figure Lair will rate about an 8.5 to a 9 or so for the rest of the world. So hey look we're right back where we started.

*shrugs* Well at least we came full circle. Sure it's much ado about nothing but I'd be wrong to lump Casey in with the rest of Play.

No wonder I'm a Pizza delivery guy. :/

 

[JB1981]

75% of this forum thinks Halo 3 looks like an Xbox game in high definition. If I tried to take them all on, I wouldn't have time to do anything else.


Your example is poor.

I know there are some very vocal Halo critics here but 75% is ridiculous. :lol

The Halo 3 beta thread didn't get as big as it did because people were unhappy with it.

 

[Y2Kev]

DELICIOUS THIS THREAD IS

 

[Sharp]

Whoa how did this thread get this long?

 

[Speevy]

DELICIOUS THIS THREAD IS

Closed it will be.

 

[Pistolero]

The Washington Post, obviously.

:lol

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

My first post in this thread

This is why when you see Play in Barnes & Nobles, you look at the pretty pics, because they do have better pics than most. Once you've seen all of the pics, move along. Lair just might be a great game, but Play isn't going to be the one to tell you that going on their previous reviewing history.

This is before and after all of the many Xbot assertions in this thread. People get so emotional. That was before I learned of the actual content of the review. Then these stupid ass statements.

Somehow if the review score was low, I don't think you'd be trying this hard to discredit the reviewer.

how true

Kiss my ass with your general ****ing assumptions. My critique is on Play magazine, no more, no less. Quit crying like ****in girls.