Support NeoGAF

[On Demand]

Your *sighing* doesn't change the fact that yes, so far Sony has yet to produce a single game that can be rightfully called a system seller yet for the PS4, which is quite unfortunate. Judging from the high sales, it seems like people will be easily satisfied so long as you can play the latest/best iterations of GTAs or Battlefields or CODs... not that there's anything wrong with it.

There's plenty of good exclusives out now, and upcoming, that potential buyers might like and choose to buy the system for. And that's also because it has the 3rd party games they want. I don't think it's just one game that always sells consoles. It's the accumulation of them. This year PS4 has tons.

You may not like Sony's first party output, everyone doesn't share your opinion.

And the fact that Nintendo has survived this long clearly refutes your first party exclusives don't sell systems hogwash. If it were true, Nintendo would have been long gone by now.

I am interested though, does anyone have data about how well Sony's 1st party exclusives performed in sales in comparison to games like BF4 or CODs?

How many WiiU's are sold each month? As popular as Nintendo's games are, you would think the WiiU would be able to keep up with PS4 and XB1. But it doesn't for obvious reasons.

What kind of updates are we talking about? I probably missed this.

I don't even remember. Sorry. I'll try searching for the thread.

 

[ShinMaruku]

I'm always amazed by people who do not personally like a system's library (that's completely fine, nothing wrong with that), and thus conclude that everyone buying it must be brainwashed by marketing or fan boys buying on hype or whatever other explanation they can come up with.

Any conclusion, other than "The games may not be for you, but perhaps lots of other people like them."

I think it's a side effect that people just listening to people they agree and going into echo chambers.

That distorts thinking and makes them see different tastes as threatening.

 

[Vibranium]

I mean they keep doing things that people think are super dumb, like harsh drm, uplay that nobody wants, and so forth.

It seems obvious that they would sell more units of their games if they simply took that stuff out -- but they don't want to. It's not like they're stupid dumb dumb heads that don't understand, it's just that they don't want to give up that control. They'd rather have more control and sell less than sell more and have less control.

Absolutely. Grow Home is a small Ubisoft Reflections Steamworks title with no Uplay though. They should at least keep doing that with their smaller games (I wish Child of Light and Valiant Hearts didn't have it)

 

[Laughing Banana]

There's plenty of good exclusives out now, and upcoming, that potential buyers might like and choose to buy the system for. And that's also because it has the 3rd party games they want. I don't think it's just one game that always sells consoles. It's the accumulation of them. This year PS4 has tons.

You may not like Sony's first party output, everyone doesn't share your opinion.

Now it's my turn to sigh.

A good/great quality game =/= a game that sells system. I am sure there are many heart-broken Bayonetta 2 fans in GAF that can tell you that.

In terms of Sony, the only franchise that I can think of that I think qualify for a system seller moniker would be perhaps Gran Turismo.

I agree however, to your assertion that it is a combination of A B C D E F G that sells PS4 so far. I just don't personally think Sony has a single A or B or C that is strong enough to be called a system seller, at least so far. Well, perhaps I am wrong.

How many WiiU's are sold each month? As popular as Nintendo's games are, you would think the WiiU would be able to keep up with PS4 and XB1. But it doesn't for obvious reasons.

Well, like I said, Nintendo has survived so far so long mainly due to the strength of its 1st party offerings. If their 1st party offerings don't have the strength to sell or support their system, I doubt they would have made it this far.

 

[The Artisan]

I can't help but think the only thing selling it is the age of the last generation and everyone's desire for it to end.

I've thought about this as well. I mean, I'm all for a console generation being 7+ years long, but seeing as how that's a year or two longer than how it normally is, it would make some sense that a lot of people got one of the new consoles because they just wanted something new.

 

[The_Dama]

Xbox One and Wii U sales? What about Vita?

 

[The Artisan]

Xbox One and Wii U sales? What about Vita?

it'd be nice if mS would publicly talk more about sold-through with the xbone. same with wii u, but... vita as far as I can tell seems to be a lost cause.

 

[Lys Skygge]

I'm going to have to side with Laughing Banana. PS4 has had some good exclusives but nothing great. I personally enjoyed Killzone and Driveclub has become one of my all time favorite racing games. But neither if those are system sellers by any means. Games like Second Son and The Order 1886 might have moved a few systems but I feel like PS fans are desperate for a great exclusive so they pick up any big exclusive despite being mediocre. I feel Bloodborne will be the first must-have exclusive but I doubt it'll sell many consoles. I think Uncharted 4 will be the first exclusive to be both critically and commercially successful.

In the meantime I'll enjoy Bloodborne later this month, some great indies, and some promising third party games!

 

[omonimo]

Now it's my turn to sigh.

A good/great quality game =/= a game that sells system. I am sure there are many heart-broken Bayonetta 2 fans in GAF that can tell you that.

In terms of Sony, the only franchise that I can think of that I think qualify for a system seller moniker would be perhaps Gran Turismo.

I agree however, to your assertion that it is a combination of A B C D E F G that sells PS4 so far. I just don't personally think Sony has a single A or B or C that is strong enough to be called a system seller, at least so far. Well, perhaps I am wrong.



Well, like I said, Nintendo has survived so far so long mainly due to the strength of its 1st party offerings. If their 1st party offerings don't have the strength to sell or support their system, I doubt they would have made it this far.

Not exist system sellers from awhile, in the console business. The success it's caused to different 'mixed' factors. Nintendo it's survived thanks to the first wii and the portable console successes not surely for their exclusives. You are very naive if you think so.

 

[kaching]

Ah, the old "system seller" argument, that people have been trying to sink Sony with since the day they got into selling game consoles. No more relevant now than it ever really was then.

GAF really needs some new material - I feel like I'm back on Usenet reading through rec.games.video all over again.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

I'm going to have to side with Laughing Banana. PS4 has had some good exclusives but nothing great. I personally enjoyed Killzone and Driveclub has become one of my all time favorite racing games. But neither if those are system sellers by any means. Games like Second Son and The Order 1886 might have moved a few systems but I feel like PS fans are desperate for a great exclusive so they pick up any big exclusive despite being mediocre. I feel Bloodborne will be the first must-have exclusive but I doubt it'll sell many consoles. I think Uncharted 4 will be the first exclusive to be both critically and commercially successful.

In the meantime I'll enjoy Bloodborne later this month, some great indies, and some promising third party games!

What you think is mediocre another person might like .
Saying people just buying games cause there desperate for a great exclusive is nonsense talk .
Also another funny thing about system sellers is that some of them vary from country to country or region to region .

 

[Mr_Antimatter]

Just because I personally don't think PS4 has a system seller doesn't mean that I don't think it has a good game. Hell, I've platinumed Second Son and Inquisition for it already and just recently completed The Last of Us Remastered + Left Behind and about to begin playing The Order 1886........

No need to be so sensitive as to make you see things that aren't actually there.

For you to (perhaps) think that I have an ulterior motive in dissing PS4 is actually quite funny for me since I am quite a big supporter of Sony. The regular people on the PSN thread can vouch for that (though I haven't visited that thread for quite a while...)

Oh, you seem to be using 'system seller' instead of 'iconic killer app'. A system seller is any game that well, sells someone on a system. An iconic killer app is a game that becomes 1:1 synonymous with the system in question.

They don't mean the same thing, which is why so many are confused here. Plenty of games have been system sellers, if you look at their effect on month to month sales. But so far few are absolutely iconic in regards to the system in question.

 

[JNA]

I just had a light bulb!

What if...the PS4 itself is the system seller!?

 

[Guevara]

I just had a light bulb!

What if...the PS4 itself is the system seller!?

"Do not try and make a system seller. That is impossible. Instead... only try to realize the truth.
"What truth?"
"There is no system seller."
"There is no system seller?"
"Then you'll see, that it is not the system seller that sells the system, it is only yourself."

 

[JNA]

"Do not try and make a system seller. That is impossible. Instead... only try to realize the truth.
"What truth?"
"There is no system seller."
"There is no system seller?"
"Then you'll see, that it is not the system seller that sells the system, it is only yourself."

- Project Morpheus

 

[Furyous]

This is great for Sony but they have to continue the pressure on Microsoft. Microsoft has to respond to this with changes to live and new add-ons for their console. Sony then responds and we all win with new content.

Consumers spoke with their wallets and choose Sony 20.2 million times. Good for gamers for making the right decision. This does not mean that gamers make wrong decisions in picking other platforms but that gamers literally did what they felt was right at the time. Competition is great for everyone.

Is speculating on future changes to PSN as a result of this sales number allowed in this post?

 

[N.Domixis]

Ps4 doesn't need system sellers, it sells regardless. The biggest system seller will be the price drop.

 

[Elfstruck]

Games like Second Son and The Order 1886 might have moved a few systems but I feel like PS fans are desperate for a great exclusive so they pick up any big exclusive despite being mediocre.

That's a lot of assumptions there. Fans are always anticipated for great games, not just exclusives. You guys are forgetting that people buy console to play games in general, not solely on exclusives. Also, SS didnt move a few units, it moved a lot. PS4 outsold x1 (311k) that month.

 

[Metalingus5150]

- Project Morpheus

This is why I love Neogaf.

 

[Game4life]

Now it's my turn to sigh.

A good/great quality game =/= a game that sells system. I am sure there are many heart-broken Bayonetta 2 fans in GAF that can tell you that.

In terms of Sony, the only franchise that I can think of that I think qualify for a system seller moniker would be perhaps Gran Turismo.

I agree however, to your assertion that it is a combination of A B C D E F G that sells PS4 so far. I just don't personally think Sony has a single A or B or C that is strong enough to be called a system seller, at least so far. Well, perhaps I am wrong.



Well, like I said, Nintendo has survived so far so long mainly due to the strength of its 1st party offerings. If their 1st party offerings don't have the strength to sell or support their system, I doubt they would have made it this far.

It sold 20.2 million units. I dont think PS4 is the console needing any more system sellers. Also umm are you saying Uncharted is not a system seller? Watch it shred the holiday charts. It will outsell every exclusive barring Halo in Nintendo,Microsoft and Sony systems.

 

[manzo]

My advice to PC-only gamers on the subject of Bloodborne: do what you always do.

1. Wait X years
2. Salivate over the first emulator to show a boot screen of the game.
3. Declare the war won.
4. Go back to benchmarking.

You forgot create a petition.

https://www.change.org/p/ready-at-d...onalized-computing-platform?just_created=true

do not go gentle into that good night.

God damn it

 

[terrier]

People talk about systems sellers.... but how many of them are on other platforms? Because the only one i can think of, at least for its media presence and hype , since generation started would be titanfall and we all know that it sold well but not enough to be considered that.

PS4 is just the most balanced system: price, power, games (last generation showed that 3rd party games>first party most of the time for system sales) plus a loooong PS360 generation and people wanted new blood.
Exclusives will come, even if not really necessary at this point sales wise.

 

[BigDug13]

That's a lot of assumptions there. Fans are always anticipated for great games, not just exclusives. You guys are forgetting that people buy console to play games in general, not solely on exclusives. Also, SS didnt move a few units, it moved a lot. PS4 outsold x1 (311k) that month.

It outsold XBO by far more than that. NPD is but one region.

 

[orochi91]

I'm going to have to side with Laughing Banana. PS4 has had some good exclusives but nothing great. I personally enjoyed Killzone and Driveclub has become one of my all time favorite racing games. But neither if those are system sellers by any means. Games like Second Son and The Order 1886 might have moved a few systems but I feel like PS fans are desperate for a great exclusive so they pick up any big exclusive despite being mediocre. I feel Bloodborne will be the first must-have exclusive but I doubt it'll sell many consoles. I think Uncharted 4 will be the first exclusive to be both critically and commercially successful.

In the meantime I'll enjoy Bloodborne later this month, some great indies, and some promising third party games!

I just want some more compelling AAA games from Sony; it's why I buy their consoles.

So far I've only purchased I:SS and TLoU:R this gen. I plan on geting DC:GOTY edition because it's now pretty amazing compared to the state it launched in.

Sony WWS/SCE seriously need to pick it up with regards to AAA output; they keep pumping out glorified tech demos (Knack, KZ:SF, DC when it launched, The Order).

 

[Inuhanyou]

^ The order is not a Sony WWS game.

As for the topic...

system sellers depend on what is important to the gamer in question.

For many people 'system sellers' are not AAA exclusive games with metacritic over an arbitrary number. Its causal friendly games which a lot of people play.

PS4 through a combination of factors including wildcard new markets that have opened up to gaming in ways never seen previously, has sold itself globally to the consumer base as "the console" to primarily play games on. The same way the PS1 was, the same way the PS2 was, and the 360 in America was.

Once you become "the console" to play games on be it multis or not, there's no real going back from that, your gonna take whatever market that has been ensnared by that mindset.

 

[Alo0oy]

It sold 20.2 million units. I dont think PS4 is the console needing any more system sellers. Also umm are you saying Uncharted is not a system seller? Watch it shred the holiday charts. It will outsell every exclusive barring Halo in Nintendo,Microsoft and Sony systems.

It will still outsell Halo easily, even if Uncharted 4 does not show any growth AT ALL & sells only as many units as UC3, Halo 5 would still need a 55-60% attache rate to even equal it. If it shows the same growth UC3 showed, then good luck to Halo 5 having a ~75% attache rate.

Let's not forget that the XB1 installbase when Halo 5 launches could be anywhere between ~14 million (if September) to ~16 million (if November), while the PS4 could easily be over 30 million by then.

 

[Huggers]

I absolutely agree with laughing banana. I have a PS4 but it's a multitude of factors that have been the reason behind it's success. Thirst for a new console after a long previous gen. It's competitors missteps. Etc etc.

No one game has made the system a must have imo. That to me is what a system seller is

 

[Lys Skygge]

That's a lot of assumptions there. Fans are always anticipated for great games, not just exclusives. You guys are forgetting that people buy console to play games in general, not solely on exclusives.

Well I guess I'm more speaking from personal experience. I fell for the hype of Second Son and felt it was going to be the first must-have PS4 exclusive. While the game was a lot of fun, I managed to platinum it in only two days. I was a bit disappointed and I felt I should have just rented it. I nearly made the same mistake again with The Order 1886 but at the last moment I decided to rent instead of purchasing it and I'm really glad I did.

The reason I wanted either of those games is because I just want a great PS4 exclusive that I can sink a lot of my time into. I really do enjoy Driveclub though.

I hope I'm not coming across as a fanboy who doesn't like Sony. I really do enjoy my PS4 and I'm a big fan of Sony! I'm just stating my observations and personal experience

 

[Nozem]

Banana is right. It's not a problem for me though, as I'm having a lot of fun with the smaller indie titles.

 

[WarpathDC]

I am actually surprised at this number. Last year I thought it could happen but after a couple of their exclusives bombed (DC, LBP3) and MS was cranking out software and reducing the price I thought PS4s sales would slow in proportion to the MS growth. Good for Sony, I am looking forward to playing more on my PS4 but I personally think they have shit the bed to date on their feature set (suspend/resume) and the lack of external hdd support makes me salty as my HDD is full and i am too lazy to replace the internal one.

 

[Apt101]

- Project Morpheus

It's these moments I visit GAF for.

 

[GribbleGrunger]

I am actually surprised at this number. Last year I thought it could happen but after a couple of their exclusives bombed (DC, LBP3) and MS was cranking out software and reducing the price I thought PS4s sales would slow in proportion to the MS growth. Good for Sony, I am looking forward to playing more on my PS4 but I personally think they have shit the bed to date on their feature set (suspend/resume) and the lack of external hdd support makes me salty as my HDD is full and i am too lazy to replace the internal one.

Neither of those games 'bombed' though. I think the problem is people look at sales of games like COD and GTA and think that's the definition of 'successful'.

 

[Laughing Banana]

It sold 20.2 million units. I dont think PS4 is the console needing any more system sellers. Also umm are you saying Uncharted is not a system seller? Watch it shred the holiday charts. It will outsell every exclusive barring Halo in Nintendo,Microsoft and Sony systems.

Heh, I actually for some reason forgot about Uncharted, so you got me there.

 

[jiggle]

I just had a light bulb!

What if...the PS4 itself is the system seller!?

 

[samar11]

I am surprised how much their shares/market cap has gone up over the course of 1 year .

 

[Game4life]

It will still outsell Halo easily, even if Uncharted 4 does not show any growth AT ALL & sells only as many units as UC3, Halo 5 would still need a 55-60% attache rate to even equal it. If it shows the same growth UC3 showed, then good luck to Halo 5 having a ~75% attache rate.

Let's not forget that the XB1 installbase when Halo 5 launches could be anywhere between ~14 million (if September) to ~16 million (if November), while the PS4 could easily be over 30 million by then.

Well when you put it that way I guess I could be wrong. it could outsell Halo. But Halo will most certainly still have the better attach rate. It is the bigger franchise.

 

[Elfstruck]

Well when you put it that way I guess I could be wrong. it could outsell Halo. But Halo will most certainly still have the better attach rate. It is the bigger franchise.

At this point, I'm not sure if UC is any less of a franchise compared to Halo.

 

[Nightengale]

At this point, I'm not sure if UC is any less of a franchise compared to Halo.

Well, assuming everything proceeds accordingly, we'll know in 8-9 months time.

 

[Phoenician_Viking]

^ The order is not a Sony WWS game.

Yes it is so is Bloodborne. Yoshida always considers these games as first party game like Uncharted, GOW, etc... Yoshida introduces them as first party. Sony fully owns, finance these IP, therefor they are part of WWS and are considered as much first party as any other game made by WWS.

 

[EGM1966]

Well when you put it that way I guess I could be wrong. it could outsell Halo. But Halo will most certainly still have the better attach rate. It is the bigger franchise.

I think the consoles themselves will be the deciding factor.

Purely going by games/developer id expect U4 to be anywhere from 6 to 8 million and Halo 5 to be anywhere from 8 to 11 million.

But... with the different install base timing sales could get skewed by that.

Both though are undeniably big, key franchises. Halo has been established for longer with more titles while Uncharted is newer and a bit smaller as a franchise overall.

Both will sell well but they'll be a real test of current gen market dynamics.

 

[amar212]

I just had a light bulb!

What if...the PS4 itself is the system seller!?

"Do not try and make a system seller. That is impossible. Instead... only try to realize the truth.
"What truth?"
"There is no system seller."
"There is no system seller?"
"Then you'll see, that it is not the system seller that sells the system, it is only yourself."

- Project Morpheus

Beautiful.

 

[Coulomb_Barrier]

Oh, you seem to be using 'system seller' instead of 'iconic killer app'. A system seller is any game that well, sells someone on a system. An iconic killer app is a game that becomes 1:1 synonymous with the system in question.

They don't mean the same thing, which is why so many are confused here. Plenty of games have been system sellers, if you look at their effect on month to month sales. But so far few are absolutely iconic in regards to the system in question.

This is a good point, and what I think he really means. Iconic killer apps are extremely rare - Tekken, Wipeout, Mario 64, Gran Turismo 3, Halo (interestingly I would say PS1 had a fair few because of the jump from 2D to 3D leaving a lot of people's jaw on the floor and increasing this factor).

I would also say there hasn't been one of these types of titles this gen. It could be U4 but I believe it may be a new i.p. Perhaps that dino Horizon game from Guerilla? No Man's Sky? I can but dream.

EDIT: Thinking about it, the true killer app this gen is likely to come from Morpheus. Or be Morpheus VR itself.

 

[slavesnyder]

I've thought about this as well. I mean, I'm all for a console generation being 7+ years long, but seeing as how that's a year or two longer than how it normally is, it would make some sense that a lot of people got one of the new consoles because they just wanted something new.

this is it.
but part 2 of the story is: they wanted something new and most people chose one of the two contenders who started at the same time.
also, the no.1 system seller of the ps4 is the diversity. when people say bloodborne is no system seller and LBP is no system seller and this and that is no system seller and MLB is no system seller they might be right. But it's in the mix.
for the informed people we also have the outlook. players can be sure, from announvcement and history of the ps3 that the console will be futureproof.
and it had the better marketing and communication. this is not about selling snake oil but being able to speak properly to your audience without spitting in their face while talking.

 

[Inuhanyou]

Yes it is so is Bloodborne. Yoshida always considers these games as first party game like Uncharted, GOW, etc... Yoshida introduces them as first party. Sony fully owns, finance these IP, therefor they are part of WWS and are considered as much first party as any other game made by WWS.

Do you know what Sony WWS is? It is a distinct arm of SCE, it has nothing to do with third party games, even helped or published by Sony. That's like saying Beyond or Heavy Rain are Sony WWS games. Your factually wrong

 

[pixelpatch]

Pretty impressive as I felt Xbox 360 dominated PS3 so to turn it around has been immense. Wonder if they can keep it up with PS5?!

 

[Mr_Antimatter]

Pretty impressive as I felt Xbox 360 dominated PS3 so to turn it around has been immense. Wonder if they can keep it up with PS5?!

In some ways it did, and in others, it didn't. As a PC gamer, I lost a lot of interest in the 360 as the generation went on, while I gained an appreciation for what sony was bringing to the table.

Still played a ton of 360 at friends houses though, mainly rock band nights with my friends.

 

[terrier]

this is it.
but part 2 of the story is: they wanted something new and most people chose one of the two contenders who started at the same time.
also, the no.1 system seller of the ps4 is the diversity. when people say bloodborne is no system seller and LBP is no system seller and this and that is no system seller and MLB is no system seller they might be right. But it's in the mix.
for the informed people we also have the outlook. players can be sure, from announvcement and history of the ps3 that the console will be futureproof.
and it had the better marketing and communication. this is not about selling snake oil but being able to speak properly to your audience without spitting in their face while talking.

Agree, playstation platforms have always been about diversity, iconic exclusive games are icing on the cake. It is like NIntendo portable consoles, not only great for nintendo first party but because they usually get a lot of content from 3rd parties too, unlike home consoles since n64. 360 did that very well too, and XBO does too, but being weaker, and more expensive for a long time explains its low performance vs ps4

 

[NeloAnjelo]

A lot of talk about system sellers on each platform in terms of Sony's offering vs MS.

What system sellers did MS actually MAKE to sell XB1s? There is MCC and Forza. All other exclusives were made by third party studios funded by MS. DR, Ryse, Crismson Dragon... were these good games? Subjective, but nothing really mind blowing. TF, SO and TR are games MS have funded to bring people to their platform. Will this exclusivity be permanent?

Sony's own studios are making games... these may not be system sellers but they will NEVER be on other systems. In other words you can only ever play them on Playstaion. This is a key difference people are missing. Gamers also remember the 360 and it's great start of exclusives and hardcore games... this however was forgotten in the last 5 years on that console's life. the PS3 however had a massive string of exclusives, offering variety, fresh ideas and genuine quality. MS have been refreshing Forza/Gears, Fable/Halo every 2 years, along with the marketing deals with COD and AC. It's the same cycle over and over. People see this and may be choose accordingly. Sony's only really started third party relations in a massive way this gen.

MS are finally making moves in bringing games to their platform... paying for them not making them. Is this sustainable? Will this sell systems? Maybe in the short term but across the entire gen? True first part exclusives are the only real system sellers. They may not be gangbuster money makers but it's the mindshare.... "look that's another game not on XB". Indies are also key here.

 

[benny_a]

A lot of talk about system sellers on each platform in terms of Sony's offering vs MS.

What system sellers did MS actually MAKE to sell XB1s? There is MCC and Forza. All other exclusives were made by third party studios funded by MS. DR, Ryse, Crismson Dragon... were these good games? Subjective, but nothing really mind blowing. TF, SO and TR are games MS have funded to bring people to their platform. Will this exclusivity be permanent?

^ Sunset Overdrive is like Ryse as opposed to like Titanfall or Tomb Raider.

Insomniac was contracted to work on a first-party title directly by Microsoft Studios.

Respawn was contracted by Electronic Arts to make a game, and Microsoft helped out financially to make it get made and then struck a deal with EA to keep it forever off PlayStation.
Tomb Raider is also done via a third party publisher and that Microsoft wasn't the deciding factor to have it get made is obvious from the announcement without platforms and the timed exclusive statements.

 

[slavesnyder]

A lot of talk about system sellers on each platform in terms of Sony's offering vs MS.

What system sellers did MS actually MAKE to sell XB1s? There is MCC and Forza. All other exclusives were made by third party studios funded by MS. DR, Ryse, Crismson Dragon... were these good games? Subjective, but nothing really mind blowing. TF, SO and TR are games MS have funded to bring people to their platform. Will this exclusivity be permanent?

This is not relevant for consumers at all. only for us enthusiasts. maybe.
an exclusive game is an exclusive game.
even if it is timed, most do not realise it. hell, even a marketing partnership for a game that gets released on both consoles will appear exclusive for the most consumers.