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[Sblargh]

This. Go take your boner for GAFs supposed suppression of Freedom of Speech and employ it somewhere like The_Donald or 4chan where it can be of some genuine use to humanity; instead of finding the one corner of the gaming forum world that's actually a bit liberal and wagging your finger at it. If you really cared about FOS that much you certainly wouldnt be HERE of all places attempting to plant your flag.

I do that. I wasted a good share of my life debating right wing people on all kinds of topic.

No one is blocking JonTron opinions, he's free to make them, he's not free to walk over their opinions without consequences. Be on a forum, be on a social platform, your opinions are going to have a consequence. If JonTron were defending human rights or women equality and then he was fired from YL for that, we could have a problem, but as society we agreed (well more or less) that equality is good and racism and xenophobia is bad.

So when JT exposes his extreme racist views, with vile, deshumanizing ideals made up of straight up lies and society reacts to it, is not a bad thing. And is not a bad thing he faces consequences for it.

And racism is not up to debate.

Ought is not is.
Racism ought not be up to debate because humans should be better than that. But we aren't, therefore it is.

Americans are racists. Therefore racism is a topic.

 

[Nanashrew]

And racism is not up to debate.

Yep.

I've been talking about how bad racism is and how it has been the foundation to many atrocities in world history, but these people don't listen. To them, racism is just an opinion and your thought policing. Shift it to JonTron "he's not racist, he just couldn't articulate what he wanted to say." Shifted to Sargon and their appraisal of the AfD and wanting them to be elected because "populist ideas could final fix some of Germany's problems" ignoring just about all the nazi problems with AfD.

JonTron said very racist things, he is now dealing with the consequences. Plain and simple. No debating necessary despite how much these people seem to want to debate.

Also their debating skills amount to the level of JonTron's.

 

[Death Penalty]

This Video explains where the Neogaf claim is coming from

https://youtu.be/sRNDnR9Za4M?t=192

It's your typical GamerGater "SJW Cucks are ruining Vidya games" nonsense.

Why did I watch that? It's absolutely infuriating.

 

[FinaruDensetsu]

"Divisiness from both sides"

Not the "both sides" argument...not that one again...

The one good thing that has come from the popularity of this pathetic excuse for a logical argument is that it almost always immediately lets you know the person's true shitty beliefs no matter how hard they try to mask it.

It simultaneously let's you know they are on the wrong side of both things being compared.

 

[LewieP]

Why did I watch that? It's absolutely infuriating.

Not to mention riddled with inaccuracies and (deliberate?) misunderstandings.

He got the name of the journo he quoted wrong, and the voice acting is all gobbledygook, it's not an insult towards JonTron's voice.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

He said divisiveness between both sides.

Is missquoted, still the concept of "both sides" is just wrong.

Ought is not is.
Racism ought not be up to debate because humans should be better than that. But we aren't, therefore it is.

Americans are racists. Therefore racism is a topic.

Racism might be a topic to talk about ("Why americans are racist?" for example) but is not a concept up to debate.

Debate implies that racism is an idea to be confronted, but is something that should be downright rejected. We already decided, as a society, that is bad and something we shouldn't do. Therefore, there's no place for a debate.

 

[Platy]

This Video explains where the Neogaf claim is coming from

https://youtu.be/sRNDnR9Za4M?t=192

It's your typical GamerGater "SJW Cucks are ruining Vidya games" nonsense.

I WISH this forum was a trans rights forum that only talked about white privilege =P

 

[Death Penalty]

Not to mention riddled with inaccuracies and (deliberate?) misunderstandings.

He got the name of the journo he quoted wrong, and the voice acting is all gobbledygook, it's not an insult towards JonTron's voice.

The misunderstandings have to be deliberate. They're riddled throughout the entirety of the video. Great at stirring up shit, really terrible at making a cogent argument.

 

[Sblargh]

There's nothing irrational about asking a company if they support the white nationalists they hired, or asking platforms like Twitter or YouTube to have greater enforcement against hate speech. If YouTube actually gave a fuck about this issue we wouldn't have to be worried about millions of kids being indoctrinated into crypto-fascist ideologies while watching Minecraft videos of all things. Let's get to that part first, then we can have the conversation about whether it's better to boo or argue with the strange guy with the iron cross necklace when he picks up a bullhorn outside the local state fair.

I think it is a strategy with an expiration date.
I don't even disagree with them, but I do think there should be some escape valve. It is better to have even dehumanizing opinions voiced in some kind of controled environment where they can be exposed for what they are then playing wack-a-mole with the Internet.

 

[Sblargh]

Racism might be a topic to talk about ("Why americans are racist?" for example) but is not a concept up to debate.

Debate implies that racism is an idea to be confronted, but is something that should be downright rejected. We already decided, as a society, that is bad and something we shouldn't do. Therefore, there's no place for a debate.

Our democratically elected lawmakers are racist. So is our Police and our judges.
I think your premise is wrong and self defeating.

If our Society is racist, it seems clear to me that our Society have not decided anything. Society is divided (in more than two sides).

 

[Gator86]

This current topic has nothing to do with free speech. Nobody in this situation has been prevented from exercising their rights.

If you're against what Playtronic is doing here, you're actually more of an enemy of free speech and frankly basic freedom than you are for it. Playtronic has rights. Respect them.

When people discuss free speech, they never actually mean the constitutionally guaranteed right to freedom of expression without government persecution. They mean the right to say whatever dumb shit they want without consequences. I can't remember the last time I heard a discussion about actual free speech, only the dumbass kind espoused by people with the reasoning of a Will Ferrell character.

 

[KaoteK]

The fact that GG is so anti-GAF is one of the reasons I decided to create an account here. Really only says good things about this place.

Yeah GAF's stance on social issues in general is one of the reasons I spend a hell of a lot of time here.

I can deal with conservative view points, but I can't fucking stand bigotry in any form, and I love that GAF doesn't let that shit fly.

 

[tuxfool]

Our democratically elected lawmakers are racist. So is our Police and our judges.
I think your premise is wrong and self defeating.

If our Society is racist, it seems clear to me that our Society have not decided anything. Society is divided (in more than two sides).

Except people in power reject the fact that they are racists. They do everything they can to escape that label. So it is clear that to them it is also that under society it is undesirable to be considered racist.

 

[Wallach]

When people discuss free speech, they never actually mean the constitutionally guaranteed right to freedom of expression without government persecution. They mean the right to say whatever dumb shit they want without consequences. I can't remember the last time I heard a discussion about actual free speech, only the dumbass kind espoused by people with the reasoning of a Will Ferrell character.

Yeah I know, and it's exactly that ignorance that these fake ass "moderates" - better known as invertebrates like Boogie - use to try and act like the kind of shit Jafari was advocating is just a "different point of view" and not hatred aimed at hurting or destroying some of my fellow citizens.

It's not a simple misunderstanding, it's in opposition to a major part of why our country exists. People have to stop letting it slide. These people are not advocates of free speech, and you can't let them get away with claiming otherwise.

 

[liezryou]

So i actually watched that absolutely retarded 11 minute rant from that kotaku guy on youtube. Did he mention that he was a son of iranian immigrants? I guess that makes sense, his last name is Jafari. Jafari basically means anyone that follows a school of shia muslim law founded by Jafar as-Sadiq, sixth imam of the shiite muslims.

So while he may not resonate with his ancestry, the dude is not even fucking white himself. So this dude is a white supremacist while ignoring the fact that he's not even fucking white?

 

[metalslimer]

A libertarian voicing displeasure with a corporation for their own decisions...? Hmmm

 

[Corpekata]

So i actually watched that absolutely retarded 11 minute rant from that kotaku guy on youtube. Did he mention that he was a son of iranian immigrants? I guess that makes sense, his last name is Jafari. Jafari basically means anyone that follows a school of shia muslim law founded by Jafar as-Sadiq, sixth imam of the shiite muslims.

So while he may not resonate with his ancestry, the dude is not even fucking white himself. So this dude is a white supremacist while ignoring the fact that he's not even fucking white?

Look up what Tila Tequila's been up to lately. It's not exactly something unheard of.

 

[MajinSweet4]

So i actually watched that absolutely retarded 11 minute rant from that kotaku guy on youtube. Did he mention that he was a son of iranian immigrants? I guess that makes sense, his last name is Jafari. Jafari basically means anyone that follows a school of shia muslim law founded by Jafar as-Sadiq, sixth imam of the shiite muslims.

So while he may not resonate with his ancestry, the dude is not even fucking white himself. So this dude is a white supremacist while ignoring the fact that he's not even fucking white?

Yeah, that got brought up during the debate with Destiny. Jon tried to play the victim and said Destiny was trying to "Take the white out of him".

 

[Famassu]

So i actually watched that absolutely retarded 11 minute rant from that kotaku guy on youtube. Did he mention that he was a son of iranian immigrants? I guess that makes sense, his last name is Jafari. Jafari basically means anyone that follows a school of shia muslim law founded by Jafar as-Sadiq, sixth imam of the shiite muslims.

So while he may not resonate with his ancestry, the dude is not even fucking white himself. So this dude is a white supremacist while ignoring the fact that he's not even fucking white?

Black people can be racist towards black people, gay people can be homophobes. Not surprising, really, people are all kinds of dumb when they lack the capacity of even remotely critical thinking, introspection & empathy.

 

[Ms.Galaxy]

Our democratically elected lawmakers are racist. So is our Police and our judges.
I think your premise is wrong and self defeating.

If our Society is racist, it seems clear to me that our Society have not decided anything. Society is divided (in more than two sides).

In the scientific community, scientific racism has been debunked and completely invalidated, it is no longer worth debate. In many first world nations, equal right regardless of race has also been implemented. We as a society have decided that racism is wrong, by majority.

There is no debate to be have, there's nothing valid about race superiority. There's no facts, no science, nothing to back it up. Therefore, it's non-debatable in all counts, it's an irrational ideology based on fear and hate that is not worth discussion.

 

[Sblargh]

Except people in power reject the fact that they are racists. They do everything they can to escape that label. So it is clear that to them it is also that under society it is undesirable to be considered racist.

Yet they murder and jail based on skin color.
They hire and fire based on skin color.

I don't think racism is "just a viewpoint". I think it is murder. It causes death. It breeds a violent and unjust society unable to protect itself from abuses of power.

But my faith in the call out culture is shaken. It seems we solved very little problems affecting minorities, but replaced it with a culture of dog whistles and hypocrisy.

In the scientific community, scientific racism has been debunked and completely invalidated, it is no longer worth debate. In many first world nations, equal right regardless of race has also been implemented. We as a society have decided that racism is wrong, by majority.

There is no debate to be have, there's nothing valid about race superiority. There's no facts, no science, nothing to back it up. Therefore, it's non-debatable in all counts, it's an irrational ideology based on fear and hate that is not worth discussion.

I agree 100%, which is why I think the best bet is education and oppenness, we have the truth on our side.

 

[Fisty]

So i actually watched that absolutely retarded 11 minute rant from that kotaku guy on youtube. Did he mention that he was a son of iranian immigrants? I guess that makes sense, his last name is Jafari. Jafari basically means anyone that follows a school of shia muslim law founded by Jafar as-Sadiq, sixth imam of the shiite muslims.

So while he may not resonate with his ancestry, the dude is not even fucking white himself. So this dude is a white supremacist while ignoring the fact that he's not even fucking white?

Remember Milo? Instead of being a target for these racist Nazi assholes, they decide to become one. I guess they skipped the part in history books where being "one of the good ones" only buys you an extra 6 months tops in their little white fantasy utopia

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

Our democratically elected lawmakers are racist. So is our Police and our judges.
I think your premise is wrong and self defeating.

If our Society is racist, it seems clear to me that our Society have not decided anything. Society is divided (in more than two sides).

Except people defended, back in 2016, that Trump wasn't a racist. And probably you can find similar articles even today.

I'd say that the negative connotation of racism is clear in the society and after all US had a black american as a president for 8 years. The problem is how people sees racism: how bad can be and what actually can constitute as racism or what normalizing means or what institutional racism is and how deep it runs.

If you asked people in the street:"You think racism is bad?" Most of them would asnwer yes. If you asked them:"do you think institutional racism exists?" How many of them would even know what it means?.

The problem is information, part of the media (and others) has been doing a terrific job by normalizing racist behavior or downright denying it as racist, or how we should accept racist politics so we can be safe.

But all that is a different matter than the actual concept of racism.

 

[Bastables]

YouTube is apparently losing advertisers as they realise some of their adverts are appearing next to hate speech videos.
https://www.theguardian.com/technol...ube-advertising-extremist-content-att-verizon

Looks like it started with UK firms and now US firms are pulling their advert spots from YouTube.

It started when the UK The times reported on adverts appearing next to neo nazi videos back in early February (paywall blocked but the first two paragraphs are peeking over the wall).
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/google-faces-questions-over-videos-on-youtube-3km257v8d
Note The Times is a Murdoch paper and has traditionally even before his involvement been a conservative paper.

 

[Fisty]

YouTube is apparently losing advertisers as they realise some of their adverts are appearing next to hate speech videos.
https://www.theguardian.com/technol...ube-advertising-extremist-content-att-verizon

Looks like it started with UK firms and now US firms are pulling their advert spots from YouTube.

Burn it down

 

[Heroman]

YouTube is apparently losing advertisers as they realise some of their adverts are appearing next to hate speech videos.
https://www.theguardian.com/technol...ube-advertising-extremist-content-att-verizon

Looks like it started with UK firms and now US firms are pulling their advert spots from YouTube.

Good.

 

[liezryou]

Look up what Tila Tequila's been up to lately. It's not exactly something unheard of.

I... I am actually speechless. I literally am at a loss of words after looking up some of her shit.

Black people can be racist towards black people, gay people can be homophobes. Not surprising, really, people are all kinds of dumb when they lack the capacity of even remotely critical thinking, introspection & empathy.

Sure i guess but that's not really the same thing. You can't just will yourself to be another race. Jontron isn't saying he hates his own race, he is literally trying to become white. In my experience people like that (who try to shed their skin color for another) have very deep seated psychological issues.

Yeah, that got brought up during the debate with Destiny. Jon tried to play the victim and said Destiny was trying to "Take the white out of him".

Lmao so what is he? Like a cream filled turd? Brown on the outside, white on the inside?

 

[Nanashrew]

YouTube is apparently losing advertisers as they realise some of their adverts are appearing next to hate speech videos.
https://www.theguardian.com/technol...ube-advertising-extremist-content-att-verizon

Looks like it started with UK firms and now US firms are pulling their advert spots from YouTube.

It started when the UK The times reported on adverts appearing next to neo nazi videos back in early February (paywall blocked but the first two paragraphs are peeking over the wall).
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/google-faces-questions-over-videos-on-youtube-3km257v8d

You mess with the cash flow maybe it just might force their hand to actually uphold their own policies. If YouTube doesn't do something that's less money for YouTube and less money for all YouTubers making a living on their platform.

 

[Fisty]

I... I am actually speechless. I literally am at a loss of words after looking up some of her shit.



Sure i guess but that's not really the same thing. You can't just will yourself to be another race. Jontron isn't saying he hates his own race, he is literally trying to become white. In my experience people like that (who try to shed their skin color for another) have very deep seated psychological issues.



Lmao so what is he? Like a cream filled turd? Brown on the outside, white on the inside?

I read a Yahoo answers post that was supposed to be him, maybe try looking that up. Not sure if it was confirmed him but it might add a little perspective to Jontron

 

[EatinOlives]

Accidentally clicked on some asshole's video who was railing against Playtonic and the comments were just as terrible. "Something something free speech how could you kick him out if you support diversity".

YouTube is very, very quickly becoming a cesspool. Not surprised advertisers are pulling out fast.

 

[Sponge]

As someone who's wanted a game like this for what feels like ages, I've been bummed seeing all the controversy this has caused. Really hope this doesn't effect the games sale.

 

[EatinOlives]

As someone who's wanted a game like this for what feels like ages, I've been bummed seeing all the controversy this has caused. Really hope this doesn't effect the games sale.

I think the folks at Playtonic are headstrong enough that this isn't going to bother them. They know they made the right choice.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

As someone who's wanted a game like this for what feels like ages, I've been bummed seeing all the controversy this has caused. Really hope this doesn't effect the games sale.

Why not be happy and proud they did the right thing and didn't try to minimize it in hopes of not affecting the game sales

Like

This might be a bold statement here, but

maybe there are more important things than a single game

 

[Nanashrew]

Accidentally clicked on some asshole's video who was railing against Playtonic and the comments were just as terrible. "Something something free speech how could you kick him out if you support diversity".

YouTube is very, very quickly becoming a cesspool. Not surprised advertisers are pulling out fast.

Yeah. I've noticed more like this idea of having more diversity of thought, but not diversity of people. Diversity of thought being racist views, of course. If you try to counter what they're saying with something actually intellectual, you are the thought police. It's messed up.

They take everything at face value and have no interest in depth or nuance. All someone has to do is make enough sense, speak well, and that's it. The YTer could lie through their teeth for hours and these people will repeat everything they say in full belief without any facts.

 

[Skyzard]

I think it's because they're 14.

 

[Nanashrew]

I think it's because they're 14.

Tbh, I don't think that's much better as they're being molded by these people. But there are full grown adults among them as well who have already solidified their views.

 

[GrimDarkDarrel]

One sort of unpleasant thing I noticed is that some of the people who commented here mentioned that they were tweeting Playtonic even though they had no intention of actually playing the game.

I understand people with a vested interest raising a fuss about JonTron being in their game, but if you never had any intention of playing the game then you had no place tweeting them about it IMO. It feels to me like ugly mob mentality. Even if the mob is making a valid point and JonTron genuinely deserves to be ostracized for his views (and to be clear, I think he does) I find even "righteous" applications of mob mentality offputting.

I mean... in principle anyway. I dislike mobs, but I can't get too offended about those views in particular being persecuted.

 

[Platy]

Accidentally clicked on some asshole's video who was railing against Playtonic and the comments were just as terrible. "Something something free speech how could you kick him out if you support diversity".

YouTube is very, very quickly becoming a cesspool. Not surprised advertisers are pulling out fast.

How can you kick him if you support diversity since he has a diverse way of thinking like hating diversity, how diverse people should not be free to go where they want or diverse couples should not exist because it means less pure race being born ?

 

[LewieP]

One sort of unpleasant thing I noticed is that some of the people who commented here mentioned that they were tweeting Playtonic even though they had no intention of actually playing the game.

I understand people with a vested interest raising a fuss about JonTron being in their game, but if you never had any intention of playing the game then you had no place tweeting them about it IMO. It feels to me like ugly mob mentality. Even if the mob is making a valid point and JonTron genuinely deserves to be ostracized for his views (and to be clear, I think he does) I find even "righteous" applications of mob mentality offputting.

I mean... in principle anyway. I dislike mobs, but I can't get too offended about those views in particular being persecuted.

I disagree. I'm not sure if I'm buying it or not (will depend on reviews), but I don't want the industry at large to be welcoming to white supremacists. It's entirely possible to not care about this game in particular but still want to send a message to JonTron and those that share his views.

 

[dock]

I understand people with a vested interest raising a fuss about JonTron being in their game, but if you never had any intention of playing the game then you had no place tweeting them about it IMO.

I think it's dangerous to say that no-one but the customer gets to ask questions.

Being courteous and respectful with any correspondence is paramount, however.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

So i actually watched that absolutely retarded 11 minute rant from that kotaku guy on youtube. Did he mention that he was a son of iranian immigrants? I guess that makes sense, his last name is Jafari. Jafari basically means anyone that follows a school of shia muslim law founded by Jafar as-Sadiq, sixth imam of the shiite muslims.

So while he may not resonate with his ancestry, the dude is not even fucking white himself. So this dude is a white supremacist while ignoring the fact that he's not even fucking white?

Something about George Washington being white, therefore he is white as well.

 

[GrimDarkDarrel]

I disagree. I'm not sure if I'm buying it or not (will depend on reviews), but I don't want the industry at large to be welcoming to white supremacists. It's entirely possible to not care about this game in particular but still want to send a message to JonTron and those that share his views.

I hear ya. Let me rephrase myself: I dislike the idea of people complaining about anything in a game they aren't going to play, but the danger of allowing white supremacist views to become normal does outweigh that concern here.

I think it's dangerous to say that no-one but the customer gets to ask questions.

Being courteous and respectful with any correspondence is paramount, however.

It's not that I think only customers should ask questions, I'm just wary of mob behaviour in general, even when the mob happens to be in the right.

 

[necrosis]

awesome

jontron & the alt-reich racist hivemind can get fucked

 

[Admiral Woofington]

One sort of unpleasant thing I noticed is that some of the people who commented here mentioned that they were tweeting Playtonic even though they had no intention of actually playing the game.

I understand people with a vested interest raising a fuss about JonTron being in their game, but if you never had any intention of playing the game then you had no place tweeting them about it IMO. It feels to me like ugly mob mentality. Even if the mob is making a valid point and JonTron genuinely deserves to be ostracized for his views (and to be clear, I think he does) I find even "righteous" applications of mob mentality offputting.

I mean... in principle anyway. I dislike mobs, but I can't get too offended about those views in particular being persecuted.

Have you seen the flipside where people on the opposite end who weren't planning on getting the game are now rallying to cry about this?

 

[Einchy]

Was this posted? Nice guy Boogie still batting for Jon by claiming peeps are out to get him.

Boogie is an enigma of a man, he wants to be centralists so badly but people point out how this is damaging, and he agrees, and then continues to be a fencesitter.

 

[Mung]

YouTube is apparently losing advertisers as they realise some of their adverts are appearing next to hate speech videos.
https://www.theguardian.com/technol...ube-advertising-extremist-content-att-verizon

Looks like it started with UK firms and now US firms are pulling their advert spots from YouTube.

It started when the UK The times reported on adverts appearing next to neo nazi videos back in early February (paywall blocked but the first two paragraphs are peeking over the wall).
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/google-faces-questions-over-videos-on-youtube-3km257v8d
Note The Times is a Murdoch paper and has traditionally even before his involvement been a conservative paper.

Youtube (and twitter) have been benefiting from convenient poor policing for too long. These fuckers are part of the reason that some think that comments on the Internet should have no real life consequences. They are as guilty as any one of these assholes.

 

[Admiral Woofington]

Boogie is an enigma of a man, he wants to be centralists so badly but people point out how this is damaging, and he agrees, and then continues to be a fencesitter.

It's simple

He has self esteem issues. So he plays both sides to get as many people to like him. Then when somebody isn't taking that crap, he immediately begs their forgiveness and says they're right so they still like him. Guy seeks approval like a madman

 

[The Living Tribunal]

Was this posted? Nice guy Boogie still batting for Jon by claiming peeps are out to get him.

“Won't somebody please think of the racists???“

I would unsub you again if i could, you fat turd.

 

[EatinOlives]

Yeah. I've noticed more like this idea of having more diversity of thought, but not diversity of people. Diversity of thought being racist views, of course. If you try to counter what they're saying with something actually intellectual, you are the thought police. It's messed up.

They take everything at face value and have no interest in depth or nuance. All someone has to do is make enough sense, speak well, and that's it. The YTer could lie through their teeth for hours and these people will repeat everything they say in full belief without any facts.

It's just incredibly stupid people thinking they've found a "loophole" in the diversity initiative. Shitty people thinking it's a carte blanche to spread their putrid views unfettered.

Unfortunately for them this is a battle they lost before they even stepped into the ring. Playtonic removed Jon, and the crying brigade from these jackasses is not going to make a considerable dent into the game's sales, because most people aren't fucking crazy. All they can do is bleat into a microphone and make angry YouTube comments, that's it.

Was this posted? Nice guy Boogie still batting for Jon by claiming peeps are out to get him.

It's hilarious he vomits shit like this and pretends he's still a centrist. Who the fuck says this and pretends they're reasonable?

 

[Phased]

Can't these 'people' please stop trying to destroy this racists career? Why can't we all just forget that time when he spouted ignorant bullshit and made up statistics to support his ignorant beliefs and go back to laughing at his videos?!?