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Pokémon Sun & Moon | Info and speculation thread
- Thread starter Galava
- Start date
War Raichu
Member
waiting for them to introduce a psychiatrist character that helps a Pokemon through its Lonely nature and makes them Jolly.
That is true, but I can imagine some will use it to be a bit out there and wreck crap.
Not75Drops
Member
I'm wondering what range the base power of Z-moves will be. Will they all have the same BP and be Special moves, as well as having additional effects? You seem to get the Z-ring fairly early in the game, so while I would prefer it not being an easy OHKO against strong Pokemon, they also need to be useful throughout the game and in multiplayer so they don't feel tacked on.
Lil'DigiOp
Member
I think the player has 1 Mega and 1 Z Move a battle. I don't think its exclusive on usage.
They're also the less cumbersome to manipulate though. Just slap an everstone in that (Ditto) bitch.
Though, yeah. Without breeding they remain unable to change.
Brawly Likes to Brawl
Member
They better. Gamefreak's carelessness with M-Ray was one of the things that turned me off of Mega Evolution
I think Dark Void is fine. Its just not fine in the presence of the huge power swing brought on by: two Primals, a mega, and a legendary all allowed on the same team. That's just idiotic nonsense and the end result is a boring-samey VGC2016 with all the same teams.
I will be fully content if they just ban dumb shit like Primals. Nerf Mama Khan and Salamence a bit, and, maybe (but only a small maybe), make legendaries and Megas limited to only a single slot per team. So you have to pick between a mega or a legendary (and the other slot can go to Z moves for Gen 7).
That will greatly reinvigorate the meta as you don't just have either identical copy-pasta teams or hard-counter make-ups.
While I don't think they're going anywhere and I don't particularly care if they go away, hailing them as on the level of new Pokemon is such bull. The design alterations pale compared to a change that you would get from an actual evolution, their moveset is literally identical, access is item-dependent, and the form is only available during battle and can't be accessed in any other features. They're a form change, plain and simple, let's not pretend they're anything else to make a point.
I think they'll mostly keep the same BSTs, maybe some will be slightly higher or lower.
TBH, it'd be nice if GF just bit the bullet and started doing DLC-type stuff, free or otherwise, but that's probably not gonna happen even with all the changes with the new Generation.
Demoncarnotaur
Member
With everyone talking Megas, I figured I'd throw my wish into the mix (though it's never gonna happen).
Make them permanent alternatives to the form they evolve from. Evolve a Charmeleon? Charizard. Evolve a Charmeleon holding Charizardite X? 'Charizard X'. It basically would be a play on Alolan forms, but with Mega's.. though I sincerely doubt it will happen, as it would also require a lot of stat reworkings.
Make them permanent alternatives to the form they evolve from. Evolve a Charmeleon? Charizard. Evolve a Charmeleon holding Charizardite X? 'Charizard X'. It basically would be a play on Alolan forms, but with Mega's.. though I sincerely doubt it will happen, as it would also require a lot of stat reworkings.
Munch Poke
Member
I can't stand dark void personally. But as people have said it's normally because I'm running into Mega Kanga and a Darkrai at the same time. So I have to run my Espeon for the counter to Darkrai and then pray my Raichu encore set stops Kanga. It really does suck that 4 of my six pokes are simply there to counter legends/ubers.
Although I still get a huge smirk any time anyone let's me use my Golduck to take out their (bullshit) Shiny Primal Groudon.
Although I still get a huge smirk any time anyone let's me use my Golduck to take out their (bullshit) Shiny Primal Groudon.
Diprosalic
Banned
They won't take up a move spot. That would be incredibly stupid. I think they will be like supers in fighting games that slowly charge when you deal damage or get hit.
Seems they cost you an item slot.
Serpens007
Member
Just run a prankster with Taunt. Darkrais are too easy to take down.
The Abra line is rumoured to be getting an Alolan form and it has a mega.
How would that work then? Would the Alakazamite work with both?
They're different subspecies, so it'd probably only work with non-Alolan Alakazam. Which would work fine.
Shadow Broker
Banned
I was also thinking something along them lines.
The best way to do away with megas is by making the Megas a permanent evolution with a Dex entry. Evolve Charmander into Charizard then do some side mission to unlock what the Charizard will look like in the far future which is their current Mega evilution. Keep the stats and abilities.
It gives GameFreak a chance to Guage the fan base reactions towards new evolution to old Pokémon.
They have their own move slot. People noticed how there seemed to be space for a fifth move.
Meowstic or Klefki or Whinsicott all make Darkrai (and Smeargle) irrelevant.
Honestly, regarding the meta, I'd really like it if ubers weren't allowed at all. It makes watching the tournies really boring when every team is the same because of a bad power distribution. Megas are okay as long as it's not, like, Mega Mewtwo or Rayquaza. Primals can go too.
I'd rather see a bigger variety of Pokemon as a spectator.
I'd rather see a bigger variety of Pokemon as a spectator.
Agreed. Ive never liked seeing the exact same line up in a final thats so crazy to me to see. Id love to see it be more along those lines.
We don't know for sure either way, but if they did have that restriction, it would help tone down the power creep.
Of course, I don't expect it to happen, because Game Freak has consistently acted as enablers for power creep.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Ph D Pika
If that were true we would still have gems.
This sounds really broken.
So voltorb to electrode is a new Pokemon but mega Charizard x is a slight design alteration? Movesets still the same...I agree though megas are basically forms but even then what's the problem with that? Only different in function..they still had to design a Pokemon and figure out its stats and ability and everything
Okay 1) Voltorb to Electrode is cherry-picking as fuck. And 2) I don't generally consider new forms to be new Pokemon (I might count the Alola variants as an exception depending on how they turn out, but so far I don't consider any forms as unique Pokemon) especially ones that can only be accessed in battle.
Like, I don't consider Shaymin and Shaymin-Sky different Pokemon and their abilities, moves, stats, and appearances differ from one another, why does putting 'Mega' in front suddenly make people go "Oh yeah but I mean it's totally a completely different Pokemon" when literally the only difference here is that Shaymin-S' stats are redistributed and a Mega gets an extra 100 BST.
Considering them to be whole other Pokemon just seems silly to me. They're not naturally available anywhere and they're not permanent. The devs think they're too OP so for the most part they're just completely absent from the main game. I have been given literally no reason to think of these new forms as new Pokemon.
also i change my mind, one mega should be removed from the game: @gamefreak plz wipe mega charizard x from this world, the world does not deserve this level of gen 1 pandering in the form of such an ugly creature
Shadow Broker
Banned
I remember reading quite a while back a bit of back lash when Rhyperior and Magmortar was revealed/shown/whatever I can't remember exactly how they first appeared.
Mega evolutions is a great way to gauge how a new evolution design for a old Pokémon would go with the fan base.
At first it would be broken once they start doing it but it gives them a chance to correct, readjust stats, and make more of their lesser known Pokémon viable both in game and introduce them in the competitive scene.
There's zero chance of them doing it, I'm not delusional. I just see it as an opportunity.
Oh, well I guess that makes up for Choice items, Life Orbs, Mega Evolutions, ever-increasing quantities of legendaries, higher and higher offensive stats with each generation, compounding insane Abilities, both regular and Hidden, better boosting moves with better distribution, myriad tutors giving strong coverage moves a large distribution, and now apparently once-per-match insta-nukes.
So your idea of fixing the meta is basically ending the meta? ok lol
Gen 5 is the only one with a legendary "issue" and I'm expecting Nerfs regarding Mega Pokemon. Also, a lot of the things you listed are available to the older Pokemon as well lol.
What?
Yeah, there's a couple of things that older 'mons and mechanics and have to offer them occasional niches, sure.
But this has gotten pretty far from my original point (making Z-Moves and Mega Evolution mutually exclusive on a team), so I'm dropping it.
GiantBreadbug
Member
I disagree that this is okay.
If you're giving Alolan forms to Pokemon that have Megas, then they need to have their own Megas.
If Alolan Alakazam is still Alakazam in species and name, then it looks wrong for Alakazam (A) to not have its own Mega Alakazam (A). I don't like the way it appears, because it kind of breaks with the idea that regional forms are supposed to be the same species as the normal forms.
I think they should avoid giving Alolan forms to Pokemon with Megas anyway, but if they do it then I think it looks off for each one not to have its own distinct mega.
I think when people say they are basically new pokemon we are referring to the amount of work put into creating them...so not that they are completely new pokemon in the same vein as lurantis, more that they aren't too off from being "like" adding new pokemon, like it's really not that different from cross gen evos, just different mechanics. The idea. Like you're trying to push. That somehow megas are barely even designed different from their predecessors, especially citing designs as if they didn't even have to try or just add a horn and call it a day, is silly. Doesn't matter if I'm cherry picking with voltorb you and me both know there are plenty of other examples of Pokemon who don't look too different from the prevo. I feel where you're coming from though for sure. They're not totally new pokemon they're closer to forms but if youre trying to argue that they're on some totally different planet than new cross gen evos, I mean, it's barely different. Just works differently. Megas could literally be a new evo, and no one would question it. Look at tangrowth lol
So yeah. Wanting more new pokemon. As opposed to more megas. Is a valid desire and opinion. Trying to argue that megas don't count or are somehow not worthy additions for a bunch of arbitrary reasons is reaching very hard. Megas count and are worthy additions and basically like new pokemon evolutions. If you wanna call em forms that's fair. But that's not really a reason to not like them. Very arbitrary. It would be more accurate to say that you would rather not see them add megas because you dont like them.
Like what kind of hipster shit is hating mega Charizard just because it appeals to a lot of people?
There's no reason why this is "necessary" other than your own OCD.
Besides, look at Gallade. He didn't have a Mega Evolution until ORAS, despite being an alternate evolution for Kirlia and despite Gardevoir getting a Mega as early as XY.
But again, moot point, because there's no functional reason why the Alolan forms would need to have Megas like their traditional forms (or vice-versa). They formed differently in different regions and thus may not have the same number of forms (or forms discovered yet).
XY and ORAS were both stupidly easy, Mega Evolutions are far from their only problem. I'd rather see Mega Evolution far removed from the story of Sun and Moon because I'm more than sick of having Mega Evolution this and Mega Evolution that thrown all over the place. Save it for the post-game, because I sure as hell ain't using it during the story. Sitting through the Mega Evolution sequence once was once enough.
As for liking/disliking Mega Evolution, I like the result of it but am put off by the premise(read: the animation/temporary aspect). In my book, buffing old Pokemon was the right call to make and if Mega Evolution was the means to do so, great! Charizard? He neds it! Blastoise? Dope! Pinsir? Yes please! Beedrill? At last, a good early Bug Pokemon!
....then they went and buffed Legendaries and already OU shit like Mewtwo, Salamence, Gengar, and Garchomp. And then, Mega Rayquaza. Why.
Now I'm of the opinion that Mega Evolution as implemented was a mistake. If their goal was making things go Super Saiyan for Super Saiyan's sake, they dun goofed. If their goal was to improve old Pokemon, they should have gone about things differently so as to not buff already strong Pokemon. If Mega Evolution were to be gone....eh. No tears lost. If they were to rebalance or reimplement what was known as Mega Evolution back in Gen VI, I'd be happy. If they double down on Megas.....meh. I expected it, and it's not like I even play competitively. Just don't shove it down my throat.
NeonZ
Member
I think it'll be really odd if the Alolan Vulpix can still evolve with a Fire Stone into an Ice Ninetails. So, in spite of being considered the same species, I hope they aren't worried about breaking some rules. That applies to Mega Evolution too, but I think the Fire Stone issue shows how counter-intuitive it'd be to attempt to treat them as the same Pokemon in every way aside from stats/moveset.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
People that cry about megas will never get old. I get it you don't really like playing pokemon anymore but still do anyways. Megas are one of the biggest things gamefreak has done to help players stick with their favorites I don't see how someone could be a fan and hate this
Fan service
Brawly Likes to Brawl
Member
I dislike the execution a lot.
GiantBreadbug
Member
Gallade is a totally different species from Gardevior. That's why it makes sense for it to not get a mega when Gardevoir did. They're totally separate in the way they're identified.
However, Alolan forms are not entirely "new" Pokemon. There's nothing to suggest that Mega evolution has anything to do with how a Pokemon develops. Which Pokemon do and don't get them seems arbitrary and not based on their ecosystem in any way.
Alakazam and Alakazam (A) are the same species, just with different flavors. The Mega evolution "lore" (what of it exists) ties mega evolution to the species kind of, at least how I've interpreted it. Alakazam has the mega evolution capability in it innately by virtue of its species, so it logically follows that all variations of Alakazam should be able to do the same, because they're all Alakazam. But the variations will reflect in the Megas as well.
I don't think that line of logic is the result of OCD. It just makes sense given what we know about Megas.
Mega Evolution is no more innate to a species than A-Exeggutor's Dragon typing is innate to regular Exeggutor.
The Alolan forms are functionally all-new creatures in every way except Pokedex number and name. They have new designs, new typing, new abilities, new moves, new stat distributions, even new animations. They formed differently in different regions and may very well have different potential as a result.
There's no logical requirement that the Alolan forms must have (or lack) Megas based on what their traditional counterparts have (or don't have).
This is really just you wanting things to be nice and symmetrical.
PreyingShark
Member
They could just alter the mega stones' item descriptions from "Works on ____" to "Works on Kantoian ____" or whatever.
GiantBreadbug
Member
Okay, well
I disagree that Mega Evolution relates to a Pokemon's species in the same way as a type, evolution method, or anything else really. Mega Evolution is, as I said, innate to a species because we have no proof that it's anything to the contrary. Alakazam could mega evolve before people discovered that it can, because it's a trait innate to the Pokemon.
What makes Alolan Sandslash a "Sandslash?" Design elements? Because that's the only discernible thing to me. So if these Alolan forms came from the species that we already know, that means they share some basic biology with them, and I believe mega evolution is part of that (because of how we've been told that's the case more or less).
It just doesn't make sense for an Alolan Pokemon, which literally descended from the old ones, to not have the same access to a mega form that the previous iteration has. I'm not saying they'll do it, but according to how the existing mechanics and storytelling work, all new Alola forms share the "Mega" trait with their ancestors. It's logic. The newly discovered form should have a mega that reflects the biological changes of the Pokemon because it's the same species.
Mega is not relatable to anything else, at all, like Exeggutor's type or the evolution method to get from Vulpix to Ninetails.
Alakazam -> Mega Alakazam when holding Alakazite
Alakazam (A) -> Mega Alakazam (A) when holding Alakazite (A)
NeonZ
Member
Mega is much less of an inherent characteristic of a species than something like using a Fire Stone to make them evolve to their next natural step. They were created due to a specific event, and only work in conjunction with a human and (if you go by the in-game text from XY, rather than gameplay,) a special bond between the trainer and the Pokemon, in addition to a stone that synchronizes with the specific Pokemon. They aren't forms that these species can reach by themselves.
It's very easy to believe that the changes these regional variants went through would make them incompatible with the Mega Stone used by their previous form. It doesn't mean they somehow lost the potential for Mega, it just means they'd theoretically need a different stone to trigger it. I don't see how you think that Mega should more inherent to a Pokemon than typing and standard evolution methods.
Hyperactivity
Banned
I'd take permanent weather and Specs Hydro Pumps from (Modest lol) Keldeo special 2HKO'ing defensive Celebi under rain after SR if could get Megas, as they are now, to go away
I just really really hate power creep. Every gen, it feels like some old barrier was just broken, like 100 base speed going from godlike in gen 1 to fast by gen 5. Attack & SAttack stats etc.
And then every time I see another Mega's stats and they're astronomically high and it just frustrates me more. Most megas are basically legendaries
Tbf, gen 6 brought stall back from the brink of extinction iirc, but I wanted that to happen through nerfs, not ridiculous defenses. And then every pokemon having amazing coverage. Started playing at DPPt, but I sorta like the idea that pokemon had to use Hidden Power and coverage for STAB back in RSE (although stuff like Silver Wind being the best STAB bug types had was dumb). Being forced to cover for coverage weaknesses in a pokemon ith other teammates is much more appealing in general to me.
Alolan forms is 100x better in every way. Just stat redistribution would be good enough for me, and tbh, I'd like almost every pokemon to get it.
Shit feels like this sometimes:
There's other stuff that I would like but feel much less strongly about (like wanting team preview gone, so leads and scouts are more of a thing again, although with Megas this would be broken now), but the general power creep is what mainly bothers me.
And it's a shame, because I really like the pokemon that were introduced in gen 6, and most of them iirc never gave me this feeling either (asides from probably Aegislash)
I doubt Z-Moves would be too useful if this were the case.
Tbh, I'm fine with Z-Moves. Them being 1-shot, the item loss hurting more, relying more on surprise, and being negated by something like Protect balances the whole "haha got the one counter preventing me from sweeping" thing.
It's an amped up version of a dedicated lure or coverage option.
I just really really hate power creep. Every gen, it feels like some old barrier was just broken, like 100 base speed going from godlike in gen 1 to fast by gen 5. Attack & SAttack stats etc.
And then every time I see another Mega's stats and they're astronomically high and it just frustrates me more. Most megas are basically legendaries
Tbf, gen 6 brought stall back from the brink of extinction iirc, but I wanted that to happen through nerfs, not ridiculous defenses. And then every pokemon having amazing coverage. Started playing at DPPt, but I sorta like the idea that pokemon had to use Hidden Power and coverage for STAB back in RSE (although stuff like Silver Wind being the best STAB bug types had was dumb). Being forced to cover for coverage weaknesses in a pokemon ith other teammates is much more appealing in general to me.
Alolan forms is 100x better in every way. Just stat redistribution would be good enough for me, and tbh, I'd like almost every pokemon to get it.
Shit feels like this sometimes:
There's other stuff that I would like but feel much less strongly about (like wanting team preview gone, so leads and scouts are more of a thing again, although with Megas this would be broken now), but the general power creep is what mainly bothers me.
And it's a shame, because I really like the pokemon that were introduced in gen 6, and most of them iirc never gave me this feeling either (asides from probably Aegislash)
I doubt Z-Moves would be too useful if this were the case.
Tbh, I'm fine with Z-Moves. Them being 1-shot, the item loss hurting more, relying more on surprise, and being negated by something like Protect balances the whole "haha got the one counter preventing me from sweeping" thing.
It's an amped up version of a dedicated lure or coverage option.
I think "changing too much from the base species to retain the mega evolution trait" would be a good enough reason for Alolan species to not have them, should Gamefreak decide to provide an excuse at all. Heck, they could even say that the base species developed that trait outside of Alola. I don't see why Alolan forms absolutely need to conform to the base species in such a way, they're different things.