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[ThatObviousUser]

I'm going through the vids now and on episode 2 they say they want to be "code complete" in "40 days." Assuming the absolute maximum of him saying that on the day they posted the video, that would be... two days ago.

Most likely, he said it far before the episode debuted. So is it just in super heavy QA at this point or are they still tweaking it? I'm genuinely curious.

I'd actually love a technical overview/postmortem (especially since that seems to be the focus for this site.)

 

[antitrop]

Why should you be able to criticize GB without having to deal with it? You can say Beatles are shit, but you will elicit opinions out of most people. If you argue with my points, you are racist by the way.

I know, I'm just kidding really.

 

[smr00]

You realize that you fulfilled their prophecy.

How can i fulfill their prophecy when i am not even a fan of GB?

These guys come off as hypocrites and douche bags and now i know why i have never heard of them until now, because they aren't worth knowing about.

 

[eznark]

Why should you be able to criticize GB without having to deal with it? You can say Beatles are shit, but you will elicit opinions out of most people. If you argue with my points, you are racist by the way.

Patrick is clearly Yoko

 

[Risible]

I like how one guy brought up the fact you can't bash GB here on GAF and then they go on an ignorant 10 minute rant on GB about how they changed, it's fat people playing games etc.

I am not a GB defender/knight, it's not the best site on the internet and i have my issues with GB but these guys are idiots.

Exactly my thoughts.

"LOL GAF is so stupid, they are dicks about everything!"
<Goes on to be total dicks about the GB crew>

Say what you want about the GB podcast but at least they understand the point of a podcast is to entertain the listener. They need to take a podcast masterclass from Vinny Caravella.

 

[Patryn]

I'm going through the vids now and on episode 2 they say they want to be "code complete" in "40 days." Assuming the absolute maximum of him saying that on the day they posted the video, that would be... two days ago.

Most likely, he said it far before the episode debuted. So is it just in super heavy QA at this point or are they still tweaking it? I'm genuinely curious.

I'd actually love a technical overview/postmortem (especially since that seems to be the focus for this site.)

Admittedly I work in software development and not website development, but I've always found that there's a huge difference between being code complete and being ready to ship.

 

[WrenchNinja]

http://fyfyi.com/2012/10/12/fyfyi-episode-159-geese/

So which Gaffer is this?

 

[infinityBCRT]

ROFL. I completely forgot my CTRL+V. My post made no sense.

http://ec.libsyn.com/p/5/6/1/561a3a...1ce3dae902ea1d01cd8734d7cd5c3983&c_id=5039820

This is what I was talking about. And these people are no friends of Arthur Gies. I'm an oldschool 1UP, Rebel FM, Geekbox etc. fan, I know who Anthony Giagos and Ryan Scott are, they weren't who I was referencing.

The comedy button folks? They used to work and podcast with Gies all the time. They are friends. Gies used to be on the GameSpy Debriefings quite regularly. And hell they troll Ryan Scott way more ("oh boy!")

 

[Cerebral Assassin]

I used the words "higher ups" in discussing who decided to do this filming adventure at Polygon, and you corrected me that it was Microsoft who started the idea. Would the higher ups at Polygon be the ones who made the final call on doing such a thing? Of course they would. My use of the word "higher ups" was simply to differentiate that it was not the writers who made this call, as Dangerstepp had said.

Your statement that this discrepancy was somehow comparable is intellectually dishonest. One was a bold faced lie, while the other is splitting hairs.

Both are factual inaccuracies & I fail to see how you can claim otherwise, it is clearly misleading to claim that this documentary was a Polygon idea(which is clearly a bare faced lie, regardless of your backtracking), when it clearly wasn't. Even if what you said was true, it would still paint Polygon in a bad light, it is hardly a step forward for journalism to let the upper management decide what content is the first thing that most people will see of the site.

 

[DangerStepp]

If you keep pulling his string...

He's going to continue not to make sense and be inaccurate.

 

[conman]

Say what you want about the GB podcast but at least they understand the point of a podcast is to entertain the listener.

The GB method for podcasting: hit "record."

That's not entertainment. That's self-indulgence. I'll admit that Polygon's podcast is even more self-indulgent. But that doesn't give the GB dudes a pass.

 

[Cerebral Assassin]

The GB method for podcasting: hit "record."

That's not entertainment. That's self-indulgence. I'll admit that Polygon's podcast is even more self-indulgent. But that doesn't give the GB dudes a pass.

That's just your opinion, I find the Bombcast to be extremely entertaining.

 

[Jake Tower]

The GB method for podcasting: hit "record."

That's not entertainment. That's self-indulgence. I'll admit that Polygon's podcast is even more self-indulgent. But that doesn't give the GB dudes a pass.

 

[conman]

That's just your opinion, I find the Bombcast to be extremely entertaining.

Of course it's "just my opinion." This is still an internet forum, right?

I'm just not a fan of their off-the-cuff, undercooked, dudebro-slacker approach to pretty much everything on the site (podcast, quick looks, etc). Maybe I'm just too old, but I prefer to see/hear something with some actual thought and effort behind it. The GB podcast is the gaming equivalent of morning radio. It's just not my thing.

I wish Polygon could live up to its lofty goals. There are enough GB-like game sites in the world already. I'd like to see something more polished and professional.

 

[Neuromancer]

The GB method for podcasting: hit "record."

That's not entertainment. That's self-indulgence. I'll admit that Polygon's podcast is even more self-indulgent. But that doesn't give the GB dudes a pass.

Self indulgent means what to you, exactly? Pretty sure most podcasts (at leasts the ones I listen to) involve people hitting 'record' and then just talking about whatever they want.

 

[Foxtastical]

"If I have to review anymore games this year people in my life will kill me."
- Arthur on Rebel FM

I had a nice laugh at the comment in light of the whole back and forth last week on twitter

http://youtu.be/-0bOH8ABpco

 

[Bgamer90]

lol

 

[Team Filler]

Self indulgent means what to you, exactly? Pretty sure most podcasts (at leasts the ones I listen to) involve people hitting 'record' and then just talking about whatever they want.

Yep. Idle Thumbs and the Brodeo were super self-indulgent, and are generally considered the best out there. Clearly what a podcast needs are people who know what they're talking about and aren't always with their heads up their own asses, among other things like chemistry.

 

[famousmortimer]

I hope those guys read this thread so they can see this: Your podcast sucks.

Hi. I agree with you. But it's a lot of fun to make so we are ok with it sucking. James and I have no delusions that we are creating a top rate podcast though we do, obviously, try to get better and will continue to do so.

 

[Syriel]

Oh hey, look, Polygon did a nice in-depth interview with Nintendo's senior developers about the Wii U Gamepad!

http://www.theverge.com/gaming/2012...president-engineers-wii-u-gamepad-development

That's some serious work right there...or at least it would be if it was original work.

Nope, Polygon's writer didn't do anything for that interview. None of the quotes (or questions) are his. In fact, there's pretty much nothing in that piece that was created by the Polygon staff (except the pretty layout).

It's all lifted directly from Nintendo's website:

http://iwataasks.nintendo.com/interviews/#/wiiu/gamepad/0/0

I guess the secret to "reinventing games journalism" is to just reuse someone else's work and make it pretty?

How is that different from any other blog?

 

[pargonta]

Oh hey, look, Polygon did a nice in-depth interview with Nintendo's senior developers about the Wii U Gamepad!

http://www.theverge.com/gaming/2012...president-engineers-wii-u-gamepad-development

That's some serious work right there...or at least it would be if it was original work.

Nope, Polygon's writer didn't do anything for that interview. None of the quotes (or questions) are his. In fact, there's pretty much nothing in that piece that was created by the Polygon staff (except the pretty layout).

It's all lifted directly from Nintendo's website:

http://iwataasks.nintendo.com/interviews/#/wiiu/gamepad/0/0

I guess the secret to "reinventing games journalism" is to just reuse someone else's work and make it pretty?

How is that different from any other blog?

"Nintendo president and engineers discuss development of Wii U GamePad"

"according to an interview between Nintendo president Satoru Iwata and some of the GamePad's engineers."

? it wasn't their piece... so they will report on it. what else could they do?

 

[iammeiam]

I guess the secret to "reinventing games journalism" is to just reuse someone else's work and make it pretty?

How is that different from any other blog?

They don't claim the interview was theirs, and they do source it at the end. No,regurgitating Iwata Asks isn't patricularly revolutionary journalism, but there's not really anything shady about it. Maybe the Asks should have been linked up at the top, instead of the bottom, but they never lie about their article just being a summary.

 

[Syriel]

"Nintendo president and engineers discuss development of Wii U GamePad"

"according to an interview between Nintendo president Satoru Iwata and some of the GamePad's engineers."

? it wasn't their piece... so they will report on it. what else could they do?

A few things:

1) You just write it up as if you were there, using someone else's work. That's the lazy way, but it's also what most blogs do. Fine, if you're another run-of-the-mill blog. But Polygon keeps telling us they're not. They're better. They want to bring professionalism back. So they shouldn't have done this.

2) If you want to make it into a story with meat (and originality) you get some of your own sources. All of us who write about games have contacts within the industry. Rather than just quickly flipping a Nintendo PR piece for the hits, Polygon could have reached out to other developers for comments. Then, they could have produced a story that takes what Nintendo says and balances it out with original work. No, it wouldn't have posted as soon, but it would have been a much better story.

3) You make it VERY clear from the start that you're using a PR piece if you're running it as the ONLY source for a feature. A quick glance at the page and it looks like original reporting. This is an interview that was generated by Nintendo's PR team and should be treated as such.

I'm being critical here because this is an example of the Polygon staff doing exactly what they said the site would not do.

If they just want to be "another videogame blog" that's cool. More power to them. But if they're going to be just that then they should just come out and say the whole "reinvention" thing was too hard and they're just going to do the blog thing.

 

[FStop7]

Why do they highlight passages between paragraphs in gigantic orange letters?

 

[EternalGamer]

The next part of their documentary is up. It's on "features":

http://www.theverge.com/gaming/2012/10/17/3515336/press-reset-episode-eight-tl-dr


I don't think there is anything incendiary in it (though the "He's from North Carolina. He Shoot's guns" line is pretty silly). The only thing I kept thinking while watching is "Nobody is going to read your 10,000 word features."

You know what is revolutionizing internet today? It's audio and video content. It has been the direction things have been going for sometime now. The reason Giant Bomb has been so successful is that they focus on video Quicklooks and their podcast. The text they write is largely a supplemental aside. The idea of delivering a magazine on the internet (which is the concept they continually pitch) isn't any good. Nobody is going to care. Or at least such a small audience will care that you can't possibly maintain funding catering to them.

 

[Patryn]

Yep. Idle Thumbs and the Brodeo were super self-indulgent, and are generally considered the best out there. Clearly what a podcast needs are people who know what they're talking about and aren't always with their heads up their own asses, among other things like chemistry.

The secret is finding the right ratio between funny bullshit and in-depth critical discussions. It's why Shawn Elliot was so good: He could easily segue between telling random and hilarious anecdotes about his time working in a grocery store and giving an insightful look into what exactly the nature of game reviews should be.

 

[newjeruse]

HE SHOOTS GUNS

 

[DangerStepp]

The secret is finding the right ratio between funny bullshit and in-depth critical discussions. It's why Shawn Elliot was so good: He could easily segue between telling random and hilarious anecdotes about his time working in a grocery store and giving an insightful look into what exactly the nature of game reviews should be.

I miss them so much.

;____ ;

Such fond memories...

 

[-COOLIO-]

Polygon gives MSFT game good score: 'omg they're biased'
Polygon gives MSFT game bad score: 'omg they're marking harshly to avoid accusation of bias'

Was perhaps kind of silly to take the money, could've predicted it would happen.

Polygon gives MSFT game comparatively average score: they're trying to fit in!

 

[conman]

Oh hey, look, Polygon did a nice in-depth interview with Nintendo's senior developers about the Wii U Gamepad!

http://www.theverge.com/gaming/2012...president-engineers-wii-u-gamepad-development

That's some serious work right there...or at least it would be if it was original work.

Nope, Polygon's writer didn't do anything for that interview. None of the quotes (or questions) are his. In fact, there's pretty much nothing in that piece that was created by the Polygon staff (except the pretty layout).

It's all lifted directly from Nintendo's website:

http://iwataasks.nintendo.com/interviews/#/wiiu/gamepad/0/0

I guess the secret to "reinventing games journalism" is to just reuse someone else's work and make it pretty?

How is that different from any other blog?

I don't think you understand how this works. Not only do they say explicitly that this was "an interview between Nintendo president Satoru Iwata and some of the GamePad's engineers," but also it's typical for media outlets (not just in the games industry) to report things this way. You'll also find that many "interviews" are actually done collectively rather than one-on-one. You'll see that a lot of different sites have the same responses in interviews with the same people. That's not because they're "stealing" anything. It's simply one of the common ways that media interviews are done.

 

[Quentyn]

If you want to complain about articles on Polygon, complain about stuff like that. I know it´s only a typo, but it´s in the freaking title. How stuff like that gets published and stays online as long as it has right now is beyond me.

On a more positive note, they had a good feature on the composer of Dead Space today. They even have a nice video where he shows off his studio. That´s how they should have used their video team from day one.

 

[Wario64]

If you want to complain about articles on Polygon, complain about stuff like that. I know it´s only a typo, but it´s in the freaking title. How stuff like that gets published and stays online as long as it has right now is beyond me.

On a more positive note, they had a good feature on the composer of Dead Space today. They even have a nice video where he shows off his studio. That´s how they should have used their video team from day one.

I feel dumb for taking 40 seconds to figure out the misspelling. Heh

 

[DangerStepp]

I feel dumb for taking 40 seconds to figure out the misspelling. Heh

Me too.. yeesh. Felt like a mind puzzle; Polygon could brush it off as being a stylistic 'X'.

They're all hip and savvy risktakers like that.

 

[Empty]

gaf features in this episode (visually!)

The next part of their documentary is up. It's on "features":

http://www.theverge.com/gaming/2012/10/17/3515336/press-reset-episode-eight-tl-dr


I don't think there is anything incendiary in it (though the "He's from North Carolina. He Shoot's guns" line is pretty silly). The only thing I kept thinking while watching is "Nobody is going to read your 10,000 word features."

You know what is revolutionizing internet today? It's audio and video content. It has been the direction things have been going for sometime now. The reason Giant Bomb has been so successful is that they focus on video Quicklooks and their podcast. The text they write is largely a supplemental aside. The idea of delivering a magazine on the internet (which is the concept they continually pitch) isn't any good. Nobody is going to care. Or at least such a small audience will care that you can't possibly maintain funding catering to them.

now you're just looking to hate more. they have lots of money so i'm not worried about their liquidity - as such it's fucking great that they're doing stuff that isn't as commercially viable yet is to a high standard and trying to create an audience for more intelligent coverage. idk it's like moaning when hbo continued to renew the wire because there's no-one watching and it didn't directly make money, when this is a positive thing for non shareholders. you can't simultaneously hate their low standard reviews and news then complain that they're dumb for attempting to raise the bar because gamers don't like long form articles.

plus it's not that unviable. good features "creates" orginal news which gets all the other sites talking and mentioning their site - very useful if you're new like polygon and people don't need to. i mean i agree that they need to do better at embracing the stuff that giant bomb and 1up did outside of a laughable, pompous, self-indulgent doc that they savage all haters of online and create a better connection with readers but it's not one or the other.

 

[chogidogs]

I'm just not a fan of their off-the-cuff, undercooked, dudebro-slacker approach to pretty much everything on the site (podcast, quick looks, etc). Maybe I'm just too old, but I prefer to see/hear something with some actual thought and effort behind it. The GB podcast is the gaming equivalent of morning radio. It's just not my thing.

We might be at polar opposites here but that's exactly why I love that site so much. To me videogames are aren't suppose to be taken seriously. It's such a waste of time and money but I love it and I love their approah on covering it, because it's often as if not just as dumb as the thing I enjoy.

So that's probably why Polygon rubs me the wrong way as well. If you're so serious about "journalism," use your talents for something that would be more relevent to the world.

 

[DocSeuss]

The next part of their documentary is up. It's on "features":

http://www.theverge.com/gaming/2012/10/17/3515336/press-reset-episode-eight-tl-dr


I don't think there is anything incendiary in it (though the "He's from North Carolina. He Shoot's guns" line is pretty silly). The only thing I kept thinking while watching is "Nobody is going to read your 10,000 word features."

You know what is revolutionizing internet today? It's audio and video content. It has been the direction things have been going for sometime now. The reason Giant Bomb has been so successful is that they focus on video Quicklooks and their podcast. The text they write is largely a supplemental aside. The idea of delivering a magazine on the internet (which is the concept they continually pitch) isn't any good. Nobody is going to care. Or at least such a small audience will care that you can't possibly maintain funding catering to them.

Guess what: this documentary series is video content. They do a little thing called Cooperatives that's video content. They will be doing more video content.

They also do these incredible, slick-as-hell articles. Have you bothered to read some of them? Judging by the silly "nobody is going to read your 10,000 word features," no, I guess not.

I happen to enjoy reading lengthy, in-depth features on games. It's why I actually visit Polygon. I don't really care about their news articles, but those features? Damn good stuff. Absolutely love reading them. The Mirror Men of Arkane is right up there with the LMNO thing (oh, they hired the guy who wrote that? AWESOME)

Honestly, as far as I can tell, they're dedicated to consistently doing these features in a much more substantial, interesting way than most. This is what I've been looking for, and so far, I've not found it as much as I'd like. Polygon's doing a lot of them.

Polygon says they're going to change things? Well, video content like everyone else isn't what's going to do it. Features, on the other hand... the way they're doing them, yeah, I think it'll set them apart.

We might be at polar opposites here but that's exactly why I love that site so much. To me videogames are aren't suppose to be taken seriously. It's such a waste of time and money but I love it and I love their approah on covering it, because it's often as if not just as dumb as the thing I enjoy.

So that's probably why Polygon rubs me the wrong way as well. If you're so serious about "journalism," use your talents for something that would be more relevent to the world.

Any artistic endeavor should be taken seriously.

 

[Jake Tower]

The secret is finding the right ratio between funny bullshit and in-depth critical discussions. It's why Shawn Elliot was so good: He could easily segue between telling random and hilarious anecdotes about his time working in a grocery store and giving an insightful look into what exactly the nature of game reviews should be.

*Brodeo Fist*

 

[Cerebral Assassin]

They also do these incredible, slick-as-hell articles. Have you bothered to read some of them? Judging by the silly "nobody is going to read your 10,000 word features," no, I guess not.

I happen to enjoy reading lengthy, in-depth features on games. It's why I actually visit Polygon. I don't really care about their news articles, but those features? Damn good stuff. Absolutely love reading them. The Mirror Men of Arkane is right up there with the LMNO thing (oh, they hired the guy who wrote that? AWESOME)

Honestly, as far as I can tell, they're dedicated to consistently doing these features in a much more substantial, interesting way than most. This is what I've been looking for, and so far, I've not found it as much as I'd like. Polygon's doing a lot of them.

Polygon says they're going to change things? Well, video content like everyone else isn't what's going to do it. Features, on the other hand... the way they're doing them, yeah, I think it'll set them apart.
.

Long form writing on videogames is nothing new, I appreciate another outlet providing it but it in no way justifies the rubbish that has been spouted by the Polygonal staff.

 

[DocSeuss]

Long form writing on videogames is nothing new, I appreciate another outlet providing it but it in no way justifies the rubbish that has been spouted by the Polygonal staff.

A statement of intent is not rubbish. This is probably the thing that bugs more more than anything else: they're saying "we're going to do this, we want to do this," and so on and so forth, and people are whining NO YOU AREN'T. God, wait until the site has been out for a while.

It's frustrating that over the past few years, I've noticed an increasing tendency to mistake ambition for pretension. To Polygon, I say go for it. Try to change things.

While long-form writing is nothing new, Polygon pushes it out quickly and consistently, with very high quality.

 

[ThatObviousUser]

Yeah, knocking something for trying to do "professional writing" for writing... long-form articles doesn't really make sense. Neither does saying "the landscape has changed, it's all about dat video now."

Polygon's goal is admirable and it likely has the technical foundation to execute on it, but from what I can tell, the biggest issue is the content and those contributing to it. Luckily this is an area where opinions can be changed, but only over time and only if they commit to it.

IMO they should model themselves after the old The Escapist e-zine with thought-provoking game articles, interviews, and essays. There's really no need for more reviews and news in this day and age, while there's a huge dearth of critical analysis of the industry. They could carve out a very well-respected niche by doing that. If however, they want to be a prettier Kotaku, then that would just be disappointing.

 

[Cerebral Assassin]

A statement of intent is not rubbish. This is probably the thing that bugs more more than anything else: they're saying "we're going to do this, we want to do this," and so on and so forth, and people are whining NO YOU AREN'T. God, wait until the site has been out for a while.

It's frustrating that over the past few years, I've noticed an increasing tendency to mistake ambition for pretension. To Polygon, I say go for it. Try to change things.

While long-form writing is nothing new, Polygon pushes it out quickly and consistently, with very high quality.

Or perhaps they should have waited until they had a body of work worth talking about before making such outlandish claims, I can only judge them on what they have produced)or their records before joining Polygon, which for most of the staff is pretty poor) & the shoddy editing on the site doesn't exactly bode well for the future(they have had too many articles with simple errors in them for me to consider their output as "high-quality",).

The issue is made worse when you consider that even if their site was full of wonderful feature articles, that would still not come close to meeting their hyperbolic claims.

 

[Delusibeta]

You know what is revolutionizing internet today? It's audio and video content. It has been the direction things have been going for sometime now. The reason Giant Bomb has been so successful is that they focus on video Quicklooks and their podcast. The text they write is largely a supplemental aside. The idea of delivering a magazine on the internet (which is the concept they continually pitch) isn't any good. Nobody is going to care. Or at least such a small audience will care that you can't possibly maintain funding catering to them.

Yeah. I can't help but feel that Polygon is an Escapist clone minus Yahtzee, Loading Ready Run and Moviebob (i.e. the only reasons anyone bothers to go to the Escapist), all of which are video producers. Like the Escapist, Polygon's news is pretty much worthless and while the features tend to be decent, nobody's going to read them.

 

[famousmortimer]

It would be awesome if Polygon did video stuff. They could do a weekly advice segment where Gies answers reader's questions about life while he gets a tribal tattoo on his bicep.

 

[eznark]

Any artistic endeavor should be taken seriously.

True. I think Van Gogh got his start paraphrasing press releases.

 

[MiniBossBattle]

I got excited because I saw Dan Hsu for one frame in the last episode.

 

[tusken77]

May Payne 3, huh? How is this even possible? McElroy said it himself in the teaser for the trailer for the documentary about the website. They're the "absolute best people in the world" doing this!

 

[Interficium]

It's why I actually visit Polygon.

Polygon can't be visited yet.

 

[jooey]

So we went from analyses of credibility to pointing out every typo one person makes? uh, real progress there guys

 

[firehawk12]

So we went from analyses of credibility to pointing out every typo one person makes? uh, real progress there guys

If writing is your profession, typographic errors do undermine your credibility.

 

[eznark]

So we went from analyses of credibility to pointing out every typo one person makes? uh, real progress there guys

The perils of blowing your own editing horn