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Project Draco unveiled and detailed: Kinect-only Panzer Dragoon successor on XBLA

kinect AND controller support on the side = more ppl buying it the end...

CoE bombed ? well how do you think it would have fared with kinect ONLY controls ?
 

Kuran

Banned
Hitoribhoshi said:
kinect AND controller support on the side = more ppl buying it the end...

CoE bombed ? well how do you think it would have fared with kinect ONLY controls ?

So it has optional controller support? Amazing.

I think I said this in the other Draco thread, but with Xbox Live Arcade coming to Windows 8..will we be able to play this on our PCs?
 

Data West

coaches in the WNBA
Phonomezer said:
"lol Kinect has no games!"

"Why is this a Kinect game?! :("
The story of motion controls.

I think Gunstringer looks awesome, but I understand why it's a Kinect game, and I'll have to miss out on it as such. It's just the way games work. I don't get the big deal.
 

ced

Member
soqquatto said:
2j0h354.jpg


excitement!

no controller = no sale

That's exactly how I looked when I figure out it was a Kinect game.
 
Kuran said:
So it has optional controller support? Amazing.

I think I said this in the other Draco thread, but with Xbox Live Arcade coming to Windows 8..will we be able to play this on our PCs?

it? Draco ? no, it's Kinect only for now (Child of eden is Kinect and controller, yes)

xbla on PC? I doubt that.
 
Kuran said:
So it has optional controller support? Amazing.

I think I said this in the other Draco thread, but with Xbox Live Arcade coming to Windows 8..will we be able to play this on our PCs?

Is this what we're going to be hearing for the next 2 years? Jesus wept.
 

Pooya

Member
Why Project Draco Doesn't Support the Default 360 Controller
http://www.1up.com/news/tgs-project-draco-doesnt-support-controller

"You're right -- it probably could be done physically on a controller if you tried. But that would totally throw off the game balance, difficulty?all that stuff. And it's not just difficulty and game balance in that sense, but it's also because all of the game decisions and level designs have been made from the ground up to be able to be enjoyed on Kinect. We have no idea if would be fun if you played on a controller -- we couldn't make any guarantees there. I'm sure really dedicated Panzer fans want to play on a controller, so I understand that feeling, but if I were to make a controller game it probably wouldn't be this game."

Taking that a step further, he explained that certain features like the camera work in the game, have been designed for Kinect in a way that would make less sense if you played on a controller. "Like for example, in the Panzer Dragoon series if you pressed the left or right trigger buttons, you could face anywhere you wanted," he said. "We cut that feature specifically because it doesn't work on Kinect."

"Also, because of the control scheme paradigm shift, it's obvious that how we handle the twitch skills of a shooter, and the difficulty that comes from that, is different because the controls are completely different," he continued. "So in order to mitigate that, we decided to add in an RPG/dragon raising layer to make the game scalable in difficulty without having to rely on controller twitch."

To be fair, comparing Project Draco to Child of Eden is complicated, because Draco will be a moderately-priced Xbox Live Arcade game whereas Child of Eden was a full-priced retail release, so Grounding -- which currently consists of around 15 people -- doesn't necessarily have the same budget and resources that Q Entertainment did.

To finish our conversation on the topic, I asked Futatsugi if he could, it he would want to make Draco using the Panzer Dragoon license (which Sega still owns). "Not really," he replied, "I guess because all the things that I wanted to do with Panzer I did already. So I'm not really fixated on that game so much anymore. If for example, I was tasked with a different job of making a Panzer Dragoon sequel, then I probably wouldn't even do it on Kinect. So that I would enjoy doing on its own, but it's a different thing."
 

Tomasooie

Member
duckroll said:
MS is probably not actually creatively invested in Panzer Dragoon, nor are they terribly concerned that most Panzer Dragoon fans might be more interested in playing it with a controller. They want to sell the Kinect, and they had a bunch of money to throw around, and they wanted to see if core gamers could be attracted by Kinect-only games which might appeal to them. That's all.
They definitely want to sell Kinects, but I think there are some real Saturn-heads over at MS. They did commission Treasure to bring back Radiant Silvergun, after all.

duckroll said:
Team Andromeda was dead before that. Smilebit made Orta.
Smilebit had quite a few ex-Team Andromeda members, though some core members (the ones working on this game) were no longer at Sega.

From the 1UP Panzer Dragoon Cover Story:

16 ex-Team Andromeda members worked directly/indirectly on Panzer Dragoon Orta.

To put things into perspective:
The original Panzer Dragoon had a staff of 15.
Panzer Dragoon II had a staff of 20.
Panzer Dragoon Saga had a staff of 40.
 
yo, i'm aaaaaaaaaall for designing this game first and foremost for kinect.

but dont these dudes like money?

why on earth would you cut out such a huge potential market by excluding a controller option?
 

Furoba

Member
Barkley's Justice said:
yo, i'm aaaaaaaaaall for designing this game first and foremost for kinect.

but dont these dudes like money?

why on earth would you cut out such a huge potential market by excluding a controller option?

Limited budget?
Kinect is still unproven so it's easier to throw money at I suppose.

Orta failed pretty hard, despite it being one of the best Xbox titles.
 

Tomasooie

Member
Barkley's Justice said:
yo, i'm aaaaaaaaaall for designing this game first and foremost for kinect.

but dont these dudes like money?

why on earth would you cut out such a huge potential market by excluding a controller option?
This could get people who won't ordinarily play a game like this to try it just because it's a Kinect game. The other Kinect XBLA games seem to be selling well. There are a lot of Kinect owners who'll check out the game and buy it if it's enjoyable.

As evidenced by this thread, a lot of us will also be buying a Kinect just for this game. I think there are almost enough good Kinect games to warrant a purchase, but I'll wait till a price drop first.
 

Amir0x

Banned
Fuck my life. Panzer Dragoon on the finicky, laggy, imprecise Kinect? PANZER DRAGOON!?

*kicks a table, knocks over magazine rack, storms out of thread*
 
Might check this out. No way I am buying a Kinect for it though, fortunately I can manage to borrow one. I can't imagine this playing all that awesome with just my arms in the air, but I'm open for Panzer Dragoon. They can try me. But why not just a regular Panzer Dragoon.. :(
 
Amir0x said:
Fuck my life. Panzer Dragoon on the finicky, laggy, imprecise Kinect? PANZER DRAGOON!?

*kicks a table, knocks over magazine rack, storms out of thread*

Close the door behind you, sweetheart.
 

nasos_333

Member
Kuran said:
So it has optional controller support? Amazing.

I think I said this in the other Draco thread, but with Xbox Live Arcade coming to Windows 8..will we be able to play this on our PCs?

I am not 100% sure, but games would have to be remade for PC controls before can be played on PC

Like the XBLA in Windows 7 Phone, all games are remade for the phone first

As for this game, it is an instant buy, cant wait :)

Project Draco, Steel Batalion, Gunstringer, Ryse, Fable Journey, Mass Effect 3, Forza 4 are my top Kinect games so far


I was dissapointed with Codename D though, i mean Diabolical Pitch ? How did they come up with that idea ?
 

eve241

Member
People insist on calling this Panzer Dragoon but it takes more than a rail shooter with dragons to make it a PD game.

It's a shame Futatsugi will most likely never have access to the PD IP again because that world needed more exploring. I KNOW there would be a way to make a kick ass game with Sega + Futatsugi + other TA members (Kusonoki in particular) and make it actually sell (if it were an RPG for example). The "dying Saturn" and "a rail-shooter in Microsoft's first console" is no longer an excuse for such a project to not be marketable and actually sell.

I'm not one to dwell on the past too much and hate rehashing of old IPs for the sake of it....but godmanit, when it comes to PD it makes me sad it didn't get the attention it deserved.
 
soultron said:
I thought SEGA would be publishing this, but they're not? Is MGS publishing it then?
Yes MS is publishing. Sega has nothing to do with it.

Amir0x said:
Fuck my life. Panzer Dragoon on the finicky, laggy, imprecise Kinect? PANZER DRAGOON!?

*kicks a table, knocks over magazine rack, storms out of thread*
Haha oh Amir0x.
 

GhaleonEB

Member
Panzer Dragoon is one of my true gaming loves, the other being Halo. Panzer Dragoon was the reason I bought a Saturn the day it came out, and I get weepy just thinking about Saga. The imported two-disc OST is incredible.

I'm utterly crushed this is a Kinect game. Beyond having horrible controls, it will barely be a PD game:

Taking that a step further, he explained that certain features like the camera work in the game, have been designed for Kinect in a way that would make less sense if you played on a controller. "Like for example, in the Panzer Dragoon series if you pressed the left or right trigger buttons, you could face anywhere you wanted," he said. "We cut that feature specifically because it doesn't work on Kinect."
The four-side camera viewing (and later, positioning around enemies and bosses) is as defining a feature as the interplay between the rapid forward gun and the lock on attack methods. It's not Panzer Dragoon if you can't look around, immersed in battle on all sides. I hate Kinect (and own it, for my kids), but now it's destroying sequels to my favorite games, too.

element said:
looking at this makes me want an HD remake of Panzer Dragoon Saga so bad.
Yup. I've been pining for a Panzer Dragoon sequel for over a decade. "Where are you, Edge?" is my Live motto, from day one. I want to know. I don't think I'll ever find out, and that makes me so damn sad.
 
This thread pisses me off only because when I am quickly reading down the thread list and read Panzer Dragoon and XBLA, I get excited and it's not what I wanted to expect.
 

feel

Member
Isn't this something unrelated to Panzer Dragoon?? If so someone should change the thread title so people can stop overreacting. This would be the equivalent of Halo fans bitching that Bungie's new FPS franchise does not play exactly the same as Halo.
 
Letters said:
Isn't this something unrelated to Panzer Dragoon?? If so someone should change the thread title so people can stop overreacting. This would be the equivalent of Halo fans bitching that Bungie's new FPS franchise does not play exactly the same as Halo.

Er, the game is being developed by the guy who made Panzer Dragoon and it has dragons in it. I don't think the OP is out of line labeling this game a sucessor to Pazner Dragoon Orta.
 
Letters said:
Isn't this something unrelated to Panzer Dragoon?? If so someone should change the thread title so people can stop overreacting. This would be the equivalent of Halo fans bitching that Bungie's new FPS franchise does not play exactly the same as Halo.
It's like Rez/Child of Eden. Different names, different publishers, same creator and general concepts.
 

feel

Member
The Wise Old Man said:
Er, the game is being developed by the guy who made Panzer Dragoon and it has dragons in it. I don't think the OP is out of line labeling this game a sucessor to Pazner Dragoon Orta.
But this game was created for the kinect from the ground up as a new experience. Not as a proper succesor to the beloved controller games who then got kinect controls tacked on. People interested in this game shouldn't have to suffer trough the sea of complaints from fans of a different franchise who only has the creator and dragons on rails in common with this.
 

JaggedSac

Member
Not sure why they don't allow you to control the camera. Child of Eden handled that pretty well. People shouldn't be worried about the rail shooter aspect of the game as Child of Eden controls very well with Kinect.
 

Alx

Member
JaggedSac said:
Not sure why they don't allow you to control the camera. Child of Eden handled that pretty well. People shouldn't be worried about the rail shooter aspect of the game as Child of Eden controls very well with Kinect.

Well the good thing is that they put some thought into it, at least. Having the game designed around kinect is much better than trying to fit an arbitrary gameplay to new controls.
Their comments remind me of those of the Dance Central developers, when they explained that they tried many different solutions for menu browsing. And as it turned out, it became a reference in kinect games.
 
Letters said:
But this game was created for the kinect from the ground up as a new experience. Not as a proper succesor to the beloved controller games who then got kinect controls tacked on. People interested in this game shouldn't have to suffer trough the sea of complaints from fans of a different franchise who only has the creator and dragons on rails in common with this.

As a big fan of both CoE and Pazer Dragoon Orta I personally like the idea of forcing kinect technology. CoE used Kinect to sheer perfection. I like Kinect. A lot. (and get a wee bit pissed when people slam it). It'll be great to have a beloved franchise demmand that players use Kinect.
 
The Wise Old Man said:
As a big fan of both CoE and Pazer Dragoon Orta I personally like the idea of forcing kinect technology. CoE used Kinect to sheer perfection. I like Kinect. A lot. (and get a wee bit pissed when people slam it). It'll be great to have a beloved franchise demmand that players use Kinect.
Yeah I'm really looking forward to it too. Still though I can understand why people may not want to dish out $100+ for a Kinect just to play it.
 
JaggedSac said:
Not sure why they don't allow you to control the camera. Child of Eden handled that pretty well. People shouldn't be worried about the rail shooter aspect of the game as Child of Eden controls very well with Kinect.
I imagine that the game focuses on getting your body posture and movement to dodge fire and navigate obstacles, so fully controlling the camera at the same time would be haphazard without some assists built for the game's dangers, like an autofollow behavior for the camera to deal with nearest/most dangerous target or attacks. Just the fact that this game is being built with online co-op and more focused, shorter mission designs means it's distinctly its own brand of flying dragon shooter.
 
Letters said:
Isn't this something unrelated to Panzer Dragoon?? If so someone should change the thread title so people can stop overreacting. This would be the equivalent of Halo fans bitching that Bungie's new FPS franchise does not play exactly the same as Halo.
You make it sound like it's a game about platforming mechas in lolicon world when it looks just like an Orta spiritual successor using Kinect judging by all the evidence.
 

Pie and Beans

Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
The Wise Old Man said:
As a big fan of both CoE and Pazer Dragoon Orta I personally like the idea of forcing kinect technology. CoE used Kinect to sheer perfection. I like Kinect. A lot. (and get a wee bit pissed when people slam it). It'll be great to have a beloved franchise demmand that players use Kinect.

This is no longer that "beloved franchise":
It turned out to be a bad idea so now this game is a traditional rail shooter where the dragon moves on its own. Also, it is tiring if you move your hands around too much, so the ideal pace for a Kinect game is about 5 minutes for a single quest.
I'm sure really dedicated Panzer fans want to play on a controller, so I understand that feeling, but if I were to make a controller game it probably wouldn't be this game."
in the Panzer Dragoon series if you pressed the left or right trigger buttons, you could face anywhere you wanted," he said. "We cut that feature specifically because it doesn't work on Kinect."
"Also, because of the control scheme paradigm shift, it's obvious that how we handle the twitch skills of a shooter, and the difficulty that comes from that, is different because the controls are completely different," he continued. "So in order to mitigate that, we decided to add in an RPG/dragon raising layer to make the game scalable in difficulty without having to rely on controller twitch."

Its a bit like seeing a super fine old crush in a crowd, calling out and catching up to her and she turns to face you:
Ft0DG.jpg

"I-i'm sorry miss. I appear to have made a mistake..." :(
 

LiK

Member
Neuromancer said:
Yeah I'm really looking forward to it too. Still though I can understand why people may not want to dish out $100+ for a Kinect just to play it.
Not about price for me, I just hate playing with Kinect.
 

.la1n

Member
LiK said:
Not about price for me, I just hate playing with Kinect.

Child of Eden was truly the only enjoyable experience I've had with the hardware, everything else would be better with a controller. IMO IMO IMO
 

JaggedSac

Member
"Also, because of the control scheme paradigm shift, it's obvious that how we handle the twitch skills of a shooter, and the difficulty that comes from that, is different because the controls are completely different," he continued. "So in order to mitigate that, we decided to add in an RPG/dragon raising layer to make the game scalable in difficulty without having to rely on controller twitch."

Interesting that they would say this. CoE whoops my ass on the harder difficulty level and they seemed to take the traditional approach to scaling difficulty, ie throwing more and faster shit at you. I think the RPG/dragon raising is cool regardless though. Always enjoy leveling stuff up.


Well the good thing is that they put some thought into it, at least. Having the game designed around kinect is much better than trying to fit an arbitrary gameplay to new controls.
Their comments remind me of those of the Dance Central developers, when they explained that they tried many different solutions for menu browsing. And as it turned out, it became a reference in kinect games.

Definitely.
 
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