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[Noshino]

Anyways

ConsoleWinkel.nl managed to talk with PSjailbreak guys:

PSjailbreak is legal and contains no copyright code, that’s what the makers of the device are claiming. In a conversation forwarded to us, a Dutch retailer reveals that the creators of the device are insisting that Sony is just using ‘scare tactics’ to try and make people think twice before selling it. Moreover the creators are claiming that the device was primarily produced for homebrew on the PS3 console. Keep reading to check out the transcript, some names have been blanked out.

You actually think that they would EVER claim that their device is anything but legal?.... :lol

Also, as for "primarily produced for homebrew", bullshit, if that was so they wouldn't have released it this early on nor would they have advertise it the way they did.

Sony had the chance to do it right. But they've decided otherwise,
unfortunately. Instead of supporting the OtherOS, they've killed it
altogether. lol A fully supported OtherOS (incl. RSX) from the get-go and
there would be no argument for hacking the PS3 in bringing homebrew onto
the PS3. Whoever sits there at Sony having done this dick move in removing
the OtherOS will now have to face the consequences. There you go ...
motherfukkas!

I'm pretty sure that PSJailbreak is directly related to the OtherOS issue and
the lack of homebrew on the PS3. Since Sony has removed the OtherOS from the
Slim people became interested in hacking it. No? And with its entire removal
it only took half a year until the system was hacked. No? I think Sony never
thought it would happen since the system was secure for about three years.
Yeah, it was secure because no one was really trying.

So what's the cost in fixing all the sh!t, paying the lawyers, and taking
a possible loss due to piracy? What was the cost of the OtherOS again?
"But but but it cost us money and we have security concerns" am cry.
Ah c'mon, gimme a break!

- They did try to support OtherOS
- So not only you want support for OtherOS, you want FULL support for OtherOS, what's next?
- OtherOS or not, there would have been hacking, you, I and everyone else knows that
- Since when homebrew is a excuse for hacking?... did they ever promise you that?....
- The "dick move" seems to have been cause by the hackers.... why are you blaming Sony?...
- "Face the consequences"? wow.... talk about sense of entitlement

- PSJailBreak is directly related to the desire of some to hack the system, and of many of that "some" to pirate games.
- People were interested in hacking the PS3 even before the Slim was announced.... don't use the removal of OtherOS as a excuse for such acts
- No one really trying? come on! you are killing me here :lol

- Possible loss due to piracy?....possible?
- But the removal of OtherOS was due to security concerns....I dont know where you are going with that.... if anything, it was those poking around trying to hack the console that cause the removal of said feature



Anywaym hopefully some of the "good" hackers out there offer great applications while at the same time block the option to pirate games (although it will be inevitable, but hey, one can dream)

 

[bathala]

3.40 firmware.

no more upgrade for me

 

[Massa]

- Since when homebrew is a excuse for hacking?... did they ever promise you that?....

Actually yes, by including OtherOS with the PS3 Sony sold me a feature that allowed me to use the PS3 for homebrew purposes. Then they took it away and then their system was cracked. Makes me feel bad for the developers that will see their games stolen, but like someone said earlier in this thread... karma's a bitch.

 

[Thunderbear]

I personally find it odd that everyone got up in arms about OtherOS being taken away and this in some way having anything to do with it.

Before the PS3 launched I thought OtherOS would be used to do tonnes of cool homebrew software. But what happened? No one did? I kept looking to use Linux to use my PS3 as a bad ass homebrew machine, yet no one put in the effort. Was it because of the lack of access to all SPUs and RSX?

I just think the whole OtherOS argument is weak. I saw very few people using it, no one posted threads on NeoGaf except for a short while after launch. Maybe a few people really used it, but seriously, they were a small, small, minority.

I am getting this USB hack so I can store my games on the HD, that's a big deal to me to not have to go up and change discs. I would also love extended homebrew applications like emulators and XBMC type mods (even though the PS3 is doing fine for playing all my videos). Even better would be a fast, stable browser with full flash support.

Anyway, my main point is that to me it seems people are using OtherOS as an excuse to just hate on Sony when in reality I can't imagine the people posting/whining about it actually used OtherOS.

 

[Belfast]

It's not a USB stick. It has to be capable of running code (commands) on it's own.

I know it's not a traditional USB stick, but the technology can't possibly be worth bumping the price that much.

 

[Rich!]

I know it's not a traditional USB stick, but the technology can't possibly be worth bumping the price that much.

It's justified for the original sellers (psjailbreak), because this is their only chance to make big money. Once the clones come out, they're fucked and everyone will be able to buy dirt cheap ones anyhow.

 

[Equus Bellator Apex]

You actually think that they would EVER claim that their device is anything but legal?.... :lol

Also, as for "primarily produced for homebrew", bullshit, if that was so they wouldn't have released it this early on nor would they have advertise it the way they did.







- They did try to support OtherOS
- So not only you want support for OtherOS, you want FULL support for OtherOS, what's next?
- OtherOS or not, there would have been hacking, you, I and everyone else knows that
- Since when homebrew is a excuse for hacking?... did they ever promise you that?....
- The "dick move" seems to have been cause by the hackers.... why are you blaming Sony?...
- "Face the consequences"? wow.... talk about sense of entitlement

- PSJailBreak is directly related to the desire of some to hack the system, and of many of that "some" to pirate games.
- People were interested in hacking the PS3 even before the Slim was announced.... don't use the removal of OtherOS as a excuse for such acts
- No one really trying? come on! you are killing me here :lol

- Possible loss due to piracy?....possible?
- But the removal of OtherOS was due to security concerns....I dont know where you are going with that.... if anything, it was those poking around trying to hack the console that cause the removal of said feature



Anywaym hopefully some of the "good" hackers out there offer great applications while at the same time block the option to pirate games (although it will be inevitable, but hey, one can dream)

 

[phosphor112]

fixed

I personally prefer their business model over some others, but that's a different story.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

as I said b4 it's impossible.

yep. GG, Sony. homebrew can only be delayed; not defeated.

 

[Fafalada]

<shrug> As someone with half a foot in the industry, it does interest me a bit as it may affect me one day.

Non official channels are obviously not legal - from what I remember of devkit contracts, the hw is effectively on-loan, so reselling it to anyone is not something you're allowed to do.
How well that is enforced is another question though, as these things end up even on places like eBay now and then.

A fully supported OtherOS (incl. RSX) from the get-go

Would give people a way to publish commercial software on PS3 without paying a cent to Sony.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Would give people a way to publish commercial software on PS3 without paying a cent to Sony.

which could have been easily addressed through the legalese you agree to when installing any updated OS/firmware build.

 

[phosphor112]

I think Noshino said it best. Props to his post.

Actually yes, by including OtherOS with the PS3 Sony sold me a feature that allowed me to use the PS3 for homebrew purposes. Then they took it away and then their system was cracked. Makes me feel bad for the developers that will see their games stolen, but like someone said earlier in this thread... karma's a bitch.

How does Linux support include Homebrew support? That makes absolutely no sense. They advertised OtherOS support for early models, but was then abused, thus ending up with it's removal.

Linux != 1337z0rz h4x1n9 machine...

Linux IS open source, but the hardware that it's being used on isn't an open platform.

 

[elrechazado]

I think Noshino said it best. Props to his post.


How does Linux support include Homebrew support? That makes absolutely no sense. They advertised OtherOS support for early models, but was then abused, thus ending up with it's removal.

Linux != 1337z0rz h4x1n9 machine...

Linux IS open source, but the hardware that it's being used on isn't an open platform.

:lol This post
The customers were bad so they don't get the feature they paid for anymore. Bad!

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

I think Noshino said it best. Props to his post.


How does Linux support include Homebrew support? That makes absolutely no sense. They advertised OtherOS support for early models, but was then abused, thus ending up with it's removal.

Linux != 1337z0rz h4x1n9 machine...

Linux IS open source, but the hardware that it's being used on isn't an open platform.

Are you serious??? Abused?? So Sony should be able to disable a feature that was featured when I paid for the device because they didn't like what a few were doing with it? You can't be serious.

 

[elrechazado]

Are you serious??? Abused?? So Sony should be able to disable a feature that was featured when I paid for the device because they didn't like what a few were doing with it? You can't be serious.

He agreed with noshino, so I'd agree, no way he could be seriious.

 

[itxaka]

I think Noshino said it best. Props to his post.


How does Linux support include Homebrew support? That makes absolutely no sense. They advertised OtherOS support for early models, but was then abused, thus ending up with it's removal.

Linux != 1337z0rz h4x1n9 machine...

Linux IS open source, but the hardware that it's being used on isn't an open platform.

:lol :lol



Wait, aré you serious? Let me laugh harder then :lol :lol :lol

- They did try to support OtherOS

How? Removing it?

- So not only you want support for OtherOS, you want FULL support for OtherOS, what's next?

What? What???? What the fuck are you talking about? Support for a feauture we paid? What is this madness!

 

[Brofist]

I think Noshino said it best. Props to his post.


How does Linux support include Homebrew support? That makes absolutely no sense. They advertised OtherOS support for early models, but was then abused, thus ending up with it's removal.

Linux != 1337z0rz h4x1n9 machine...

Linux IS open source, but the hardware that it's being used on isn't an open platform.

 

[Fafalada]

which could have been easily addressed through the legalese you agree to when installing any updated OS/firmware build.

If that actually worked, they wouldn't have any need to take action against JigKick distributors right now either.

 

[spwolf]

Are you serious??? Abused?? So Sony should be able to disable a feature that was featured when I paid for the device because they didn't like what a few were doing with it? You can't be serious.

not that anything ever happened with homebrew on otheros anyway, it mounted to researchers using it as cheapo super computer, but did we actually get anything homebrew? there was never a single thing worth mentioning... still doesnt excuse the fact that something was remuved, but imho it is much easier when most people never knew it was there.


but hey, this thing could give back otheros and now everyone will buy it for that, and install linux so they can all use their favourite homebrew!

 

[Lonewolf_92]

You know, I've been thinking. If Sony thought they could just block this with a change in the firmware as many of the pro-sony chorus in this thread hope, why go through the trouble of releasing their law dogs on OzMod and company? Just kick out a firmware update before the Jigkick streets and be done with it. Makes me think they either have doubts about their ability to do so (so needed to delay it hitting the market while they investigate it) or they can't (so are going after the resellers to limit their availability).

 

[kittoo]

You know, I've been thinking. If Sony thought they could just block this with a change in the firmware as many of the pro-sony chorus in this thread hope, why go through the trouble of releasing their law dogs on OzMod and company? Just kick out a firmware update before the Jigkick streets and be done with it. Makes me think they either have doubts about their ability to do so (so needed to delay it hitting the market while they investigate it) or they can't (so are going after the resellers to limit their availability).

I agree, it seems to be the case, even though I wholeheartedly want Sony to be able to stop it by firmware etc. Cause while it would be nice to see some homebrew, there is no doubt that 80% of people (please dont take it personally, of course there are those, many of GAF, who will use it for legitimate purposes) will use it for pirated games.

 

[Igo]

You know, I've been thinking. If Sony thought they could just block this with a change in the firmware as many of the pro-sony chorus in this thread hope, why go through the trouble of releasing their law dogs on OzMod and company? Just kick out a firmware update before the Jigkick streets and be done with it. Makes me think they either have doubts about their ability to do so (so needed to delay it hitting the market while they investigate it) or they can't (so are going after the resellers to limit their availability).

You really think they can just "kick out a fireware update"? This stuff probably takes weeks, especially for something like this. Personally, I think they're going to hide the fix in some major update that most people won't want to miss.

 

[spwolf]

I agree, it seems to be the case, even though I wholeheartedly want Sony to be able to stop it by firmware etc. Cause while it would be nice to see some homebrew, there is no doubt that 80% of people (please dont take it personally, of course there are those, many of GAF, who will use it for legitimate purposes) will use it for pirated games.

a lot of people will simply not update their firmware, and at worst, just not play online games. i can guarantee you this being an huge hit in europe.

fuck even people who want it for homebrew, and use as media center or something, will probably fold in and try a game or two. it is just human nature.

 

[phosphor112]

Are you serious??? Abused?? So Sony should be able to disable a feature that was featured when I paid for the device because they didn't like what a few were doing with it? You can't be serious.

Yeah, and Terrorists ruined many of my Constitutional rights as an American. TILL THIS DAY, I still have the FBI occasionally come over to my house. Are you dense?

"HERP DERP, I DIDN'T DO SHIT SO THEY CAN'T PUNISH ME." Yeah, stop being 12 and thinking you are entitled to everything.

:lol :lol
Wait, aré you serious? Let me laugh harder then :lol :lol :lol:

You want to elaborate on what's so funny? Tell me, how does the inclusion of Linux say "Hey, work on homebrew." They obviously locked the majority of the hardware while using linux for a reason.

 

[gofreak]

You know, I've been thinking. If Sony thought they could just block this with a change in the firmware as many of the pro-sony chorus in this thread hope, why go through the trouble of releasing their law dogs on OzMod and company?

Sony releasing a firmware update is meaningless for those who will simply ignore the update.

Sony putting their lawyers onto stores selling this does potentially frustrate access to the jailbreak however. The genie is out of the bottle, but the fewer places that stock and promote this, the better it is for Sony. So I would expect them to try and reduce the options open to people to get one.

Let's put it this way - if an action brings with it ANY chance of reducing access to the jailbreak, any at all, I would expect Sony to pursue it.

 

[hirokazu]

Yeah, and Terrorists ruined many of my Constitutional rights as an American. TILL THIS DAY, I still have the FBI occasionally come over to my house. Are you dense?

"HERP DERP, I DIDN'T DO SHIT SO THEY CAN'T PUNISH ME." Yeah, stop being 12 and thinking you are entitled to everything.

You are entitled to the advertised features in a product that you bought. What that has to do with terrorism and the FBI, I don't know.

 

[Gravijah]

You are entitled to the advertised features in a product that you bought. What that has to do with terrorism and the FBI, I don't know.

Terrorists pirate video games, duh.

 

[The Faceless Master]

I know it's not a traditional USB stick, but the technology can't possibly be worth bumping the price that much.

it's not, the main component costs about $3 a piece in bulk.

 

[JADS]

"HERP DERP, I DIDN'T DO SHIT SO THEY CAN'T PUNISH ME." Yeah, stop being 12 and thinking you are entitled to everything.

You want to elaborate on what's so funny? Tell me, how does the inclusion of Linux say "Hey, work on homebrew." They obviously locked the majority of the hardware while using linux for a reason.

So I bought a product advertised with feature X and I'am not "entitled" to it? What the fuck do I have to do then? :lol Tell me if the inclusion of Linux was not for running and creating homebrew, what was it for?

Edit:
Izumi Kawanishi, Sony, May 2006:
"Because we have plans for having Linux on board [the PS3], we also recognize Linux programming activities... Other than game studios tied to official developer licenses, we'd like to see various individuals participate in content creation for the PS3." - http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=9290%20

 

[SolidusDave]

How? Removing it?

They continued to support OtherOS/Linux even after the PS3 launch by e.g. including the bootloader installer into the firmware so you didn't have to download&install separate files before you could actually start the linux installation.

 

[PetriP-TNT]

:lol This post
The customers were bad so they don't get the feature they paid for anymore. Bad!

For what it is worth, I didn't pay for OtherOS, I paid for the GameOS and OtherOS was just extra

 

[missile]

Hacking the PS3 as such doesn't depend on the OtherOS feature, no question
about that. But its removal has obviously lead to a full-stop of any homebrew
effort on the PS3 and may as such have intensified the action to hack the
system to enable homebrew again. Saying that the removal of the OtherOS had
no effect on hacking the PS3 is, it least, laughable. The PSJailbreak guys
are claiming that they primarily produced the device for homebrew on the PS3.
You may say they are all lairs, but that's up to you.
It was known since ages that if it becomes possible to run unsigned code on
the PS3 within the GameOS that this would also allow for piracy. This insight
was clear from the PS3 debug units, since these units can run unsigned code
and also can start games from the HDD. The Backup Manager was not written
for PSJailbreak to show off how you can copy games. The Backup Manager is
used on debug units since ages. You may perhaps find a pages / forum on the
web where the debug unit and all its software and possibilities are
discussed.

It can't be said that with the existence of OtherOS feature there won't be
any attempts in hacking the PS3. However, with a proper and continues support
of the OtherOS feature there won't be any argument hacking the system for
homebrew. With the removal of OtherOS feature there was finally a trophy to
go for -- being the first bringing homebrew onto the PS3.

The day the OtherOS feature was removed from the Slim was actually the day
where hacking the PS3 for homebrew was a serious goal. I've followed many
messages boards during that time (esp. Fixstars' (YDL) and the cbe-oss-dev
mailing list). One my even find some interesting comments from some very
well known developers over there. One year later all the prediction came true.

 

[PetriP-TNT]

The PSJailbreak guys
are claiming that they primarily produced the device for homebrew on the PS3.

If their primary goal was allowing homebrew on PS3 their first homebrew application wouldn't have been a """"back up""" loader

And bit offtopic but your haiku format of posting makes your posts incredibly difficult to follow

 

[Metalmurphy]

If their primary goal was allowing homebrew on PS3 their first homebrew application wouldn't have been a """"back up""" loader

And bit offtopic but your haiku format of posting makes your posts incredibly difficult to follow

Your not the first to tell him that. But he just refuses to listen and says it's the opposite, it makes them easier to follow :lol

 

[Stumpokapow]

If their primary goal was allowing homebrew on PS3 their first homebrew application wouldn't have been a """"back up""" loader

What would their first homebrew application have been?

 

[Gravijah]

it would be awesome if he typed all of his posts
like this. Seriously. It would be awesome.​

whoa that's scary

 

[Metalmurphy]

What would their first homebrew application have been?

Hello world is usually the first, followed by snes emulators lol

 

[Fafalada]

The PSJailbreak guys are claiming that they primarily produced the device for homebrew on the PS3.

125 US Dollars.

 

[Stumpokapow]

Hello world is usually the first, followed by snes emulators lol

They pretty obviously did do the former--but why release it when you're able to release something more substantial, and SNES emulators are just as dual-use as backup loaders, so I'm not sure how that would be any different.

 

[Foffy]

Hello world is usually the first, followed by emulators.

While both of those would be cool to show off for homebrew, I feel they showed off the ability to install games to get a lot of attention for the device. They sure caught Sony's attention. :lol

 

[PetriP-TNT]

What would their first homebrew application have been?

my point was that they could have easily (I guess?) make it so you can only launch products that you actually own (ala Microsofts laucher) instead of any content you can get your hands on

 

[wsippel]

Would give people a way to publish commercial software on PS3 without paying a cent to Sony.

At least one of Sony's partners did. It wasn't a game, though, so I don't think Sony cared.

 

[missile]

If their primary goal was allowing homebrew on PS3 their first homebrew application wouldn't have been a """"back up""" loader

And bit offtopic but your haiku format of posting makes your posts incredibly difficult to follow

If you would know a lil about the debug unit, then you would know that the
Backup Manager was used to show off that the PS3 now runs in debug mode, a
feature very well know from any debug unit.

offtopic:
80 chars ftw. Kinda of a habit (mailing lists, mails, text files). But let
me tell you that I don't like the layout of the board software. Still waiting
for a proper typesetting system for the web. Well, I primarily use Latex
for documents and 80 char for plain text files.

@Fafalada: Isn't it too easy today to say that 'each and everyone' hacking a
system does it for piracy? I don't know....

 

[Stumpokapow]

my point was that they could have easily (I guess?) make it so you can only launch products that you actually own (ala Microsofts laucher) instead of any content you can get your hands on

No, you're not getting away from it that easily.

What homebrew were they supposed to release to satisfy your standards?

 

[PetriP-TNT]

No, you're not getting away from it that easily.

What homebrew were they supposed to release to satisfy your standards?

Like I said, if their main intention was not to allow easy access to piracy, their first application could have been something else than easy access to piracy

The backup launcher is/was 100% made by PSJailbreak guys right?

@missile: ok, I understand

 

[SolidusDave]

And bit offtopic but your haiku format of posting makes your posts incredibly difficult to follow

I just pretend it looks something like this:

It helps.

 

[Stumpokapow]

Like I said, if their main intention was not to allow easy access to piracy, their first application could have been something else than easy access to piracy

Still didn't answer the question, you just reiterated your point that people who like piracy would make a backup loader. What would people who don't like piracy make? What should they have done to legitimize themselves to you?

 

[Nemo]

Man if they ever do some custom firmware out of this I'd love to have updates for PS2 emulation for the gimped BC PS3s Damn Sony stopped long ago with those

 

[Fuzzy]

Still didn't answer the question, you just reiterated your point that people who like piracy would make a backup loader. What would people who don't like piracy make? What should they have done to legitimize themselves to you?

A PS2 emulator duh.

 

[missile]

...

...

Oh jesus! LOL!!!!!! :lol :lol