The Artisan
Member
the cancelling of preorders, i thought thats what you were talking aboutWhat goes both ways?
the cancelling of preorders, i thought thats what you were talking aboutWhat goes both ways?
the cancelling of preorders, i thought thats what you were talking about
oh. i didn't know it was a jokepost.My post was a joke because people always say that they canceled their pre-order.
I don't know they got you to buy their console without wasting extra money on a UHD Blu-ray drive, Sounds pretty smart to me.
I don't know they got you to buy their console without wasting extra money on a UHD Blu-ray drive, Sounds pretty smart to me.
My post was a joke because people always say that they canceled their pre-order.
I wasn't going to get one. But my wife bought me one for Christmas along with a separate 4K Blu-ray player... So yeah... Lol.I actually think some people pre-order something just to cancel it a minute later for the satisfaction of "pre-order cancelled" lol.
As for this topic, after now owning a Pro, and seeing sales I think I'll settle on, poor consumer move, good business move. I don't need it personally but it still can't be helped perception wise seeing MS offer it and Sony not is weak. Business wise they've proven its worked though as clearly those caring about it haven't turned up in big enough numbers that see the Pro flop out of the gate.
If Scorpio had been launching around the same time this might have been a bigger challenge. As it stands when Scorpio comes the Pros price can be even cheaper. In the meantime Sony have saved a tiny bit of money, which is all this is really about.
PS5 it is for 4K BR.
This is where we disagree. I can't get to the original source, but according to this page Playstation 3 sales quadrupled back in 2007, when Sony cut the price from 599 to 499.1. It would have to be slightly more expensive. I don't the average consumer would change their mind over a $20 difference
2. I obviously can't say how many consoles more, but it would be a positive number
This is where we disagree. I can't get to the original source, but according to this page Playstation 3 sales quadrupled back in 2007, when Sony cut the price from 599 to 499.
Of course, the pent up demand was there, but still, I don't think that at a highly price sensitive market a difference of 5% in price would lead to a reduction of less than a few percent (let's say 2%) in unit sales.
So, if Sony sold 300k Pros at $399 for a total revenue of ~$120M, at $419 the sales could have been something along the lines of 294k pieces for a total revenue of $123M. So far so good.
But, we also have to look at profit. Assuming that the UHD BD were included, the margin per piece would be the same (say, $10), so Sony would have made $60,000 less, not counting the lost game sales.
Furthermore, due to the production lines being pretty similar for standard and Pro models, the cost of the drive would have affected the BOM of every single standard PS4. In US alone, this would have resulted in lost profit of some $6M (assuming the very modest price difference of $5 per drive).
Do we have any evidence (like data about UHD BD movie sales) to support the assumption that the demand for UHD BD players is so huge, that PS4 Pro sales would have risen to make up the profit difference of six million bucks? In US? In December?
I would like to see your (or anybody else's, for that matter) calculations on how this would have been a smart move on Sony's part, considering that they sold more than five million PS4 consoles over the holidays globally, and maybe 20% of the were Pro models.
Why are you comparing a $100 difference to a $20 one and acting like it's remotely similar?
It's called price elasticity, and it applies to small price changes, too.
Compare:
16% price drop -> 300% increase in sales
5% price increase -> 2% drop in sales
Is the latter unreasonable?
That $20 is not my assumption, it's The Artisan's. I'm only adding an assumption that higher price has an adverse effect on unit sales. This is not an unheard of concept in marketing literature.When dealing with the difference between $100 and $20 to the average consumer, you don't really have an argument.
The latter is unreasonable because it doesn't prove anything other than that you make assumptions and run with them as if they are fact.
You assume that an initial price $20 more than what we got (which would be there as a value add since the system would be more capable, not to mention that this system is marketed as the more expensive and capable system and only marketed to people already willing to spend more than the PS4 Slim costs) would drop sales because a $100 decrease on a different system increased sales... The two scenarios are so completely different that you can't compare them in any meaningful way.
That $20 is not my assumption, it's The Artisan's. I'm only adding an assumption that higher price has an adverse effect on unit sales. This is not an unheard of concept in marketing literature.
But let me ask you: are you suggesting that a $20 price increase has no effect whatsoever on sales?
It depends on the market.
Nah, $399 is very important to Sony. It's the pricepoint they feel consumers want for consoles and there is a big psychological barrier to even bump to $400.Other than a few outliers, the consumers who wouldn't buy it because of the $20, likely wouldn't have bought it anyway. They're more likely to go for the PS4 Slim.
Conversely, people who bought a PS4 Slim orXbox One S may have had incentive to buy the PS4Pro instead had it played 4K Blu-ray.
Well, I presented my assumptions and the calculations based on those on how -- in my opinion -- adding a UHD BD drive would not have been a profitable move for Sony.
I am interested in seeing calculations (and underlying assumptions) that indicate the opposite.
Nah, $399 is very important to Sony. It's the pricepoint they feel consumers want for consoles and there is a big psychological barrier to even bump to $400.
You didn't present anything relevant, though? Like seriously, my response was a direct response to yours. There were no realistic calculations to respond to.
Your entire argument is based on a reality in which a lower cost option for people who don't want to spend extra money doesn't already exist.
The reality is the PS4 Slim is on the market. The PS4 Pro exists explicitly to be sold to people who don't mind spending extra money for more features.
Again, this would only matter if the PS4 Slim didn't exist.
Can anyone argue with any of these points?
I feel like this is just where we're at. The value of a pro is very situational imo.
OK, so obviously Sony didn't see the need to include a 4k blu ray drive.
Can we agree on the facts thought?
1. It's still a good value if you don't own a ps4
2. It's a good value if you own a ps4, but really want to get a locked 30fps in titles that drop frames, and if you have a very large (65+) screen that can easily show the benefits in resolution from normal living room distance.
3. There are a fuck ton of people who didn't buy this specifically because it doesn't have a 4k blu-ray drive. Sure maybe not hundreds of thousands, but that number exists, as is evident by the hundreds of people in this very thread who said they didn't buy it because of this.
Can anyone argue with any of these points?
I feel like this is just where we're at. The value of a pro is very situational imo.
Not surprised with how popular digital media is.
It depends on your definition of a fuckton vs. Numbers that are impossible to obtain though.Number 3. It's not a fuck ton. It's negligible and that's why they left it out.
OK, so obviously Sony didn't see the need to include a 4k blu ray drive.
Can we agree on the facts thought?
1. It's still a good value if you don't own a ps4
2. It's a good value if you own a ps4, but really want to get a locked 30fps in titles that drop frames, and if you have a very large (65+) screen that can easily show the benefits in resolution from normal living room distance.
3. There are a fuck ton of people who didn't buy this specifically because it doesn't have a 4k blu-ray drive. Sure maybe not hundreds of thousands, but that number exists, as is evident by the hundreds of people in this very thread who said they didn't buy it because of this.
Can anyone argue with any of these points?
I feel like this is just where we're at. The value of a pro is very situational imo.
A "fuck ton" of people? Did you count the individual users here that passed on a Pro to come.up with that HUNDREDS number? And how did you verify that they are not concern trolling?
Number 3. It's not a fuck ton. It's negligible and that's why they left it out.
So we going to unban Rigby if we get 4k bluray in FW right.?
Why. They still want to SELL the PS4 Pro. Pricing still matters and a Pro at $399 will sell better than a Pro at 400+ also, one of the points of the Pro and what allows them to keep costs for BOTH down is the fact they share parts between the two SKUs to increase economies of scale. The entire BD assembly is shared between the two units and so either they'd have to make a UHD assembly just for the Pro that would probably now sell even less because of its increased cost, while making less money from being more expensive to produce. (Sony's decision here is whether they get much of a ROI on that essentially) OR, they would have to add the UHD drive to the slim which would drive down the cost of the drive substantially but also decrease their margins on both albeit less so than the scenario of doing it just for the Pro.Again, this would only matter if the PS4 Slim didn't exist.
Lots of people on GAF complained about it and the audiences are different too. Using the WiiU as an example is odd too given it's done like, Dreamcast numbers.Its interesting no one batted an eye when the wii u cant even play dvds... Seems hypocritical to complain so much about this when sales of blu rays are down. I haven't bought a bluray in years... Cause of Netflix... Yet this thread wants people to believe that there is so much demand for 4k bluray? When 4k tvs aren't even a mainstream item yet? This thread is the definition of beating a dead horse. Xbox 1 isn't seeing unprecedented support because it has a 4k bluray drive.. Lol
Its interesting no one batted an eye when the wii u cant even play dvds... Seems hypocritical to complain so much about this when sales of blu rays are down. I haven't bought a bluray in years... Cause of Netflix... Yet this thread wants people to believe that there is so much demand for 4k bluray? When 4k tvs aren't even a mainstream item yet? This thread is the definition of beating a dead horse. Xbox 1 isn't seeing unprecedented support because it has a 4k bluray drive.. Lol
Pro not having 4K Bluray player, maybe that contributed to soft sales of this console last 2 months.
Yet this thread wants people to believe that there is so much demand for 4k blura Xbox 1 isn't seeing unprecedented support because it has a 4k bluray drive.. Lol
The Xbox One S is selling just fine with a UHD Bluray player. Selling a bit better than The Xbox One without the player did.Why. They still want to SELL the PS4 Pro. Pricing still matters and a Pro at $399 will sell better than a Pro at 400+ also, one of the points of the Pro and what allows them to keep costs for BOTH down is the fact they share parts between the two SKUs to increase economies of scale. The entire BD assembly is shared between the two units and so either they'd have to make a UHD assembly just for the Pro that would probably now sell even less because of its increased cost, while making less money from being more expensive to produce. (Sony's decision here is whether they get much of a ROI on that essentially) OR, they would have to add the UHD drive to the slim which would drive down the cost of the drive substantially but also decrease their margins on both albeit less so than the scenario of doing it just for the Pro.
According to The Guardian Xbox One sales increased 1000% in the UK when they added 4K Blu-ray.
That's not a typo. Three 0s.
It's still weaker and slower than the bog standard PS4. It's really not.that's because the S itself is the fucking bomb
This. There may be dozens, maybe hundreds of people who decided to not buy Pro because of the lack of UHD BD drive. I seriously doubt we are talking about a five figure number.
It's still weaker and slower than the bog standard PS4. It's really not.
The only thing it really has on the PS4 is UHD Bluray.
That's because of cost. And I am not sure if I'd call being outsold 2:1 is a great accomplishment, it was selling abysmally before and is already back to declining, down YOY for 2016 in general. It's even worse when you consider than that entry level $250-299 model is probably just about breaking even or losing money for them. Sony is very happy about the Slim.According to The Guardian Xbox One sales increased 1000% in the UK when they added 4K Blu-ray.
That's not a typo. Three 0s.
The Xbox One S is selling just fine with a UHD Bluray player. Selling a bit better than The Xbox One without the player did.
Wanna know something funny.When 4k tvs aren't even a mainstream item yet?
It's still weaker and slower than the bog standard PS4. It's really not.
The only thing it really has on the PS4 is UHD Bluray.
mS just announced scorpio will have 4K bluray (although I think this was a common expectation)
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1351238
mS just announced scorpio will have 4K bluray (although I think this was a common expectation)
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1351238
Lol. What a bump. UHD is irrelevant.
yeah that's why there's 5+ paged thread of mS's announcement of scorpio having it and a 100+ page thread of sony's announcement of pro's lack thereof...Lol. What a bump. UHD is irrelevant.
i immediately thought of this thread when i saw scorpio'sDid you just bump this thread from the other one? Wow. You even put the edit saying you did! Too funny.