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[faceless007]

Also, I don't get to make "backups" of other goods. Drunk buddy throws my novel in the campfire when we are camping so I make him give me the money to buy a new one.
Things get destroyed, accidents happen. Why should we get a free pass?

The above is just a perspective.

In the U.S., I believe you are legally allowed to make a personal backup of any work you own to protect against loss. If you want to, you can Xerox an entire novel for your own personal use, copy a VHS tape onto a blank tape, rip your CDs, totally legally.

Back in the '90s, I remember reading the manuals for some PC games on floppies, and the installation instructions actually included "Back up your discs" as the first step.

 

[rainking187]

I'm kind of surprised that people aren't saying at least 4b and 4c are piracy. You're buying a game and basically copying it for a friend? How is that not piracy? And I'm sure he's "borrowing" the copy. Like you'd be absolutely devestated if he just held on to the copy and didn't give it back. Cause you spent so much money on it.

 

[chaostrophy]

If the person playing emulated mario bros never paid for mario bros, then it's piracy. The reason many people are okay with situations like the latter opposed to the former is because until virtual console, nintendo was not accepting money for super mario bros (there were many re-releases such as collections on the GBA, but those have been long out of print. Hunting down a copy and purchasing it legally will not net Nintendo any profits whatsoever) hence it's not going to put nintendo out of business if you were to pirate super mario bros. Nobody is going to lose their job, so there isn't any real world consequences.

Of course virtual console exists now, so the point to kinda moot for that game in particular.

What if I downloaded and played Super Mario Bros. then deleted the ROM before the Wii/VC came out? Is not buying the game now that it's available considered to be piracy?

 

[faceless007]

I am not sure on this, but in the U.S., I think all of 6-9 constitute illegal copyright infringement. Even if you lose your copy of something, you are only supposed to restore a work from your own personal backups, not just get them from pirates. Ethically I don't see a problem with them.

 

[MechaX]

I wonder how fan-translations and the like come into play when discussing piracy.

More often than not, you have titles that are either impossible to obtain, are ridiculously pricey, or have pretty big hurdles in terms of "legally" dumping yourself (self-dumping ROMs, backing up ISOs, etc). Provided that you don't own the original, untranslated copy (assuming that would even be something to fall back on in justification), do you just not go through the means to get a game version that would work with the translation and chalk it up to "piracy is piracy"? Are fan-translations merely another form of tampering/breaching with an established product? I'm just curious here, especially since almost all fan-translations require some unofficial method to play it which also opens the door for piracy-related stuff (for example, Tales of Innocence translation needing a ROM and a flashcard to play).

Moreover, we get cases where the actual corporations do one of three things:

1.) Give them a cease and desist (Which I've never actually seen done outside of rare moments like the Chrono Trigger Resurrection project, which was more of a complete homebrewed remake more than a translation)
2.) Do nothing (like a vast majority of projects)
3.) Publicly acknolwegde or even encourage said projects (in case point, the Front Mission director encouraging the fan-translation of Front Mission 5 and other unreleased FM games).

 

[Stumpokapow]

I'm kind of surprised that people aren't saying at least 4b and 4c are piracy. You're buying a game and basically copying it for a friend? How is that not piracy? And I'm sure he's "borrowing" the copy. Like you'd be absolutely devestated if he just held on to the copy and didn't give it back. Cause you spent so much money on it.

In the hypothetical, the person doesn't play the original and gets the copy back. If you're implying the hypothetical doesn't often happen in reality, sure, but that's not the point of the question in the OP.

What if I downloaded and played Super Mario Bros. then deleted the ROM before the Wii/VC came out? Is not buying the game now that it's available considered to be piracy?

It was piracy when you did it and when anyone did it, but not very many people gave a shit prior to the VC. It was still piracy.

 

[mclem]

From a pure personal-morals standpoint, I don't regard any of those as piracy. Each of them has exactly one purchase being linked to exactly one person playing the game at a given time, which is fine in my book.

I should point out that this is not the legal definition, as I understand it, and I think a number of those are in breach of various laws, but I wouldn't regard any of them as listed to be an unreasonable act.

(I should add that the various torrent-site options do have an implication that you're implicit in the less 'honest' - if that term can be used - approach to piracy through, in turn, passing your download on to others - and possibly they should be regarded as more offensive than those where you acquire the copy in a more 1:1 manner)

 

[disappeared]

I'm not sure what you mean by "license." The operative question is copyrighted or not copyrighted, and "abandonware" are games that are still under copyright but the owner doesn't know/doesn't care/is tied up in legal issues/otherwise isn't enforcing the copyright. Legally, it's no different from pirating Halo 3, but you might argue that it's a different ethical category if the company isn't around anymore.

Thanks for clearing that up. Yeah, I'm not completely versed in the whole adandonware thing.

I'm kind of surprised that people aren't saying at least 4b and 4c are piracy. You're buying a game and basically copying it for a friend? How is that not piracy? And I'm sure he's "borrowing" the copy. Like you'd be absolutely devestated if he just held on to the copy and didn't give it back. Cause you spent so much money on it.

It's the equivalent of dudes copying audio cassettes for their buddies or taping songs off the radio. It won't ever really go away. There's a certain threshold in that respect.

 

[Ranger X]

I thought Piracy is extremely simple:

Are you enjoying X thing you didn't create yourself without paying?

You answer YES = piracy.

You answer No = you're good.

Only exception of course is if you pay someone that did pirate the thing... you're still a pirate!

EDIT: well, another exception would be if you enjoy stuff that is free and provided through something legal... like listening to the radio per example.

.

 

[Yoshi]

I don't consider any of the above piracy, although in some cases (the a/b cases) it's really a tight matter. Piracy is copying games (to distribute them in any way) or downloading them without owning a copy. Some other things may be illegal, too, but I don't consider them morally wrong. I've once purchased an illegal copy of Yoshis Island for GBA btw, but it wasn't knowingly so. I've bought the original one, too. I did, however, give the illegal copy too a friend who didn't have any intent to buy the game (for free of course and not as a present to a birthday or anything like that) as he owns the SNES game and doesn't love the game all too much. This way he will play the game more often as he doesn't have to plug in the SNES. That, of course, is not really ok, but first, I've payed for this (and couldn't get a refund >.>) and second he wouldn't have bought the game a second time at any circumstance.

 

[freddy]

If a person buys the game new they should be able to dowhatever they like to it for their own personal use. If that means saving it so it plays off the hard drive without having to put the disc in and removing drm drivers so it installs or plays easier then that's good for them.
Also if a person can no longer play the title due to wear and tear on a disc or some fault or corruption of software they should have every right to obtain another copy for free. Also if the game they purchased is unplayable or not performing to expectations then they should have the right to obtain a version that allows them to play that software without limitation or a full refund should be given

 

[Mama Robotnik]

I thought Piracy is extremely simple:

Are you enjoying X thing you didn't create yourself without paying?

You answer YES = piracy.

You answer No = you're good.

When I was a kid my Dad bought me Sonic 2 for the Master System. After I finished it I lent it to a school friend so they could play it. His parents didn't buy him the game because of this. In return he lent me Sonic 1. My dad didn't have to buy it for me. Sega were down two sales.

Were we pirating under your definition? I don't think it is extremely simple.

Very much enjoying everyones responses, a really wide range of perspectives, exactly what I was hoping for.

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

This is a good thread, and finally provides the perfect time to ask this question.


Why does most of this forum consider downloading Gears of War piracy, but playing Super Mario Brothers on your PSP not piracy.

Discuss.

Because:

Noone else got caught for it

The game is old, so the creator already got their money

and/or

victimless crime.

So basically, bullshit reasons.

 

[Prime crotch]

When I was a kid my Dad bought me Sonic 2 for the Master System. After I finished it I lent it to a school friend so they could play it. His parents didn't buy him the game because of this. In return he lent me Sonic 1. My dad didn't have to buy it for me. Sega were down two sales.

Were we pirating under your definition? I don't think it is extremely simple.

Yes, by definition you both were.
The real question should be if it's morally objectionable, which isn't in this case.

 

[FireFly]

Yes, by definition you both were.
The real question should be if it's morally objectionable, which isn't in this case.

What about buying used copies then? Isn't that piracy under this definition? In both cases you're depriving the content creator of a 'sale'.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

Lending is piracy now? When did this happen?

 

[Like the hat?]

if you purchased/rented/borrowed/was given a legit retail copy that someone paid for originally, it's not piracy.

 

[The Faceless Master]

if you possess the original and make the backup yourself, it may be a DMCA violation, but it's not piracy.

 

[chaostrophy]

It was piracy when you did it and when anyone did it, but not very many people gave a shit prior to the VC. It was still piracy.

I actually bought Final Fantasy Chronicles when it came out despite not owning a Playstation at the time, because I had played FFV on an emulator before its first official English release, and I thought I got more than $40 worth of enjoyment out of the game and I owed the developers my support.

 

[Ranger X]

When I was a kid my Dad bought me Sonic 2 for the Master System. After I finished it I lent it to a school friend so they could play it. His parents didn't buy him the game because of this. In return he lent me Sonic 1. My dad didn't have to buy it for me. Sega were down two sales.

Were we pirating under your definition? I don't think it is extremely simple.

Very much enjoying everyones responses, a really wide range of perspectives, exactly what I was hoping for.

What I think is that reasonability and laws are (sadly) 2 different things that doesn't necessarily make sense when put side to side.
In the eye of the law, exchanging your game with another person IS a form a piracy. However, in all honestly, you weren't doing something bad. Let's say I answered this thread according law but not according what I would find reasonable or not.

.

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

Lending is piracy now? When did this happen?

Yeah, don't agree with that at all.

Once you bought it, what you do with it is of your discretion (unless you duplicate it).

 

[Pociask]

I too think the interesting question is when is piracy okay - and for a variety of reasons, I think the answer is never.

We have a gut feeling that when a piece of software is abandoned - not available for legal buying anywhere, it's not harming anyone to download it and play it for free. After all, no harm, no foul, right?

However, a quick analogy shows how wrong this is. If a book is released in 1990, and has a very limited first run, it may very well be hard to find a legal copy in 2010. However, I don't think anyone would think that it's then okay to go out and download an illegal version of the text available online. Why the difference? I think there are two differences, which come from the relative infancy of the video game industry.

First, there's not a very well developed second-hand market for video games. Gamestop is it - and if you want anything older than last generation(and even then, the selection is terrible), you're pretty much out of luck. This, combined with the deterioration of the stuff video games come on(old floppies, intellevision carts, whatever), makes the second hand market function very ineffeciently. With a book, we believe it should be available to buy even limited, rare editions, just for the right price. With video games, this hasn't necessarily been true - but then again, with the rise of Ebay, Amazon, etc., it's more and more becoming the case. So this reason is disappearing.

The second reason, I think, is that with the rapid advances in video game technology, there's been a general feeling that those old games will never make any money for the makers anyway. Who's going to buy a new version of Secret Weapons of the Luftwaffe, anyway? Whereas with a book, as long as the book is under copyright, there will always be a market for second editions, etc. However, this basic assumption is also proving more unsound as time goes on. Retro compilations, Virtual Console services - I mean, you can get a copy of Burger Time that will play on the Wii! So these old copyrights, these old intellectual properties, are proving to be not the worthless husks video game enthusiasts once thought.

Look at an old game like Prince of Persia. Here was a quintessential dead franchise - untouched for how long. And now, several modern games and a movie later, it's proven to be very valuable intellectual property. As people more and more recognize the worth of older copyrights, I think that the feeling it's okay to download a game just because it's old will lessen to a degree. Of course, since piracy is rampant and wide-spread on current generation games which are easily available to purchase, it's obviously foolish to think that it will ever stop. I just don't think it will be as justifiable.

I know this verges on off-topic, but it's a thought I've had on my mind for a while, and this seemed as good a place as any to put it.

 

[Pociask]

In the eye of the law, exchanging your game with another person IS a form a piracy.

This is not true. You can do what you want with the copy of intellectual property that you bought - sell it, barter it, etc. You can't make new copies of it, however.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

What I think is that reasonability and laws are (sadly) 2 different things that doesn't necessarily make sense when put side to side.
In the eye of the law, exchanging your game with another person IS a form a piracy. However, in all honestly, you weren't doing something bad. Let's say I answered this thread according law but not according what I would find reasonable or not.

.

Since when?

 

[The Faceless Master]

I too think the interesting question is when is piracy okay - and for a variety of reasons, I think the answer is never.

We have a gut feeling that when a piece of software is abandoned - not available for legal buying anywhere, it's not harming anyone to download it and play it for free. After all, no harm, no foul, right?

However, a quick analogy shows how wrong this is. If a book is released in 1990, and has a very limited first run, it may very well be hard to find a legal copy in 2010. However, I don't think anyone would think that it's then okay to go out and download an illegal version of the text available online.

wait, what?

can i get a show of hands on this?

 

[manueldelalas]

I don't think any of the OPs cases are piracy; those are fair uses of software.

What happens with games like Mother 3 (fully translated ROM, and unless you are a madman, you won't import it, dump it and play it) or other japanese only games that are almost impossible to get here (I have never played Mother 3, but way back in the day I played DQ5, 6 and Tales of Phantasia on emulators; and now I got the DQ remakes on the DS, and the awful remake of TOP on the GBA)?

 

[Snuggles]

Yeah, don't agree with that at all.

Once you bought it, what you do with it is of your discretion (unless you duplicate it).

Yep, if you lend the game to someone else, you no longer own it for as long as he or she has it. I don't see why it's even up for debate.

 

[Ranger X]

This is not true. You can do what you want with the copy of intellectual property that you bought - sell it, barter it, etc. You can't make new copies of it, however.

:lol

hmm... true. Consider I am smoking some really good stuff today it seems.

 

[Stumpokapow]

Because: Noone else got caught for it The game is old, so the creator already got their money and/or victimless crime. So basically, bullshit reasons.

Do you also think that everyone on GAF who emulates stuff is a pirate?

 

[Grayman]

8b is the only one i feel slightly south of "no it is 100% fine" about.

 

[Grayman]

This is a good thread, and finally provides the perfect time to ask this question.


Why does most of this forum consider downloading Gears of War piracy, but playing Super Mario Brothers on your PSP not piracy.

Discuss.

You own the bytes of super mario, if they should so happen to end on your psp...

 

[Corto]

As of this moment in my country it's legal to make backups for your personal use of software that you bought and own. That's a good compromise I guess.

 

[PepsimanVsJoe]

Oftentimes when I buy games off the VC I just end up playing them on the PC.

Convenience goes such a long way for me.

 

[Gravijah]

[4b] Purchasing a game NEW, making a backup, and letting your friend borrow your backup? (the original is still preserved and never used)

[4c] Purchasing a game USED, making a backup, and letting your friend borrow your backup? (the used original is still preserved and never used)



Those are piracy to me.

Edit: Actually, I misread. Those aren't piracy if the originals aren't used in my eyes.

 

[viewtiful_dru]

Some super broad definitions here. Playing a game I didn't buy is piracy? Goddamn I must have been quite the pirate as a kid, with all the gifts on birthdays and Christmases and the borrowing and the like... :lol

[1] Purchasing a game NEW, then using a No CD crack because DRM/driver/compatability issues are causing you difficulties running from the disk?
[2] Purchasing a game NEW, then using a NO CD crack because you don't want to keep inserting and removing the disk?
Technically this is piracy, but on a personal level, it isn't really that bad, you still paid for your media.

[3] Purchasing a game NEW, then making a backup and playing from this to preserve your original purchase.
Um, isn't this stated as being allowed by law? You just can't distribute the backup (which I think is the most commmon case of piracy). according to US law at least?

[4] Purchasing a game NEW, then letting a friend borrow this original?
[4a] Purchasing a game USED, then letting a friend borrow this original?
Can't say how these would be considered piracy, though I understand why it was included on the list.

[4b] Purchasing a game NEW, making a backup, and letting your friend borrow your backup? (the original is still preserved and never used)
[4c] Purchasing a game USED, making a backup, and letting your friend borrow your backup? (the used original is still preserved and never used)
Piracy. It's illegal to distribute backups.


[5] Purchasing a game NEW, your original is destroyed in an accident and playing from your backup?
[6] Purchasing a game NEW, your original is destroyed in an accident and you make a copy of a friend's disk to continue playing?
I wonder about these, since it is legal to make backups of what you own. I think this is a grey area. I think the idea of making the backup is to have it in case you original copy breaks or if you want to preserve the original.

[7] Purchasing a game NEW, your original is destroyed in an accident, and you download an ISO from a torrent site to continue playing?
[7a] Purchasing a game USED, your original is destroyed in an accident, and you download an ISO from a torrent site to replace it?
LOL, but I certainly understand why somebody would do this.


[8] Dumping a ROM from a cartridge you purchased a decade ago, then using various emulators and hardware to play this ROM?
Is this any different than number three on the list other than the difference in media?

[8a] Downloading a ROM dump from a torrent site of a game cartridge you purchased a decade ago?
Technically illegal, since ROMs hosted on a website count as distributed backups. They are for personal use only right? But again, I can understand why somebody would want to do it.

[8b] Downloading a ROM dump from a torrent site of a game cartridge you purchased a decade ago, but have since lost?
I guess it's a grey area but since you lost the media (you don't own it anymore), I think you lost your rights to use backups of it. I'm pretty sure it's illegal under copyright law.

[9] Downloading multiple ROM hacks of a retro game, when you have purchased the original game itself as part of a recent retro compilation disk.
I think you need to have dumped your code/ROM, but are ROM hacks legal at all? I thought that you own the media but whatever data is actually on the disc/cart is property of the copyright holders, so tampering with it would be illegal. Personally, I feel that if you own the game then you should be able to modify it as long as you don't distribute it for commercial purposes or if the license allows you to.

bold responses

In general though I think that if you buy a legit copy of a game (or receive it as a gift or borrow it) it's cool. While numbers 7 and 7a are certainly acts of piracy, in the end, it looks like the same result as if you had made the backup yourself. Just the law is ambiguous in that area.

 

[Speevy]

Do you also think that everyone on GAF who emulates stuff is a pirate?

Why are you trying to bait people into getting themselves banned?


You offered up a perfectly fine definition of piracy earlier in the thread. So anything falling within that definition would therefore be piracy.

No ifs, ands, or buts.

 

[Cheerilee]

Why are you trying to bait people into getting themselves banned?


You offered up a perfectly fine definition of piracy earlier in the thread. So anything falling within that definition would therefore be piracy.

No ifs, ands, or buts.

Stumpy made it pretty clear that if you buy the game, it's not piracy, but if you steal the game, it's piracy.

You asked why it's okay for people to be playing Mario on their PSPs. Stumpy restated his position. If they own Mario, it's okay.

You asserted that the majority of people emulating Mario on PSP don't own it, that they're pirates. As someone who legally dumps his own games, I find that blanket statement offensive, and while I admit that people with their own SNES copiers are a minority, the people who own SNES carts are not. It's my belief that the majority of people emulating Mario on PSP do own the physical cart, although I wouldn't try to prove it. As Stumpy said, if you believe that the majority of people playing Mario on PSP are pirates, call someone out. It should be as easy as shooting fish in a barrel. But false accusations of piracy tend to carry consequences as strict as piracy itself around here.

DeaconKnowledge echoed your sentiment. Stumpy asked a question. Does he think the majority of people are pirates, or is it just emulation he has a problem with? Reading his "bullshit excuses", I expect that like you, he thinks all people/the majority are pirates. Again, call someone out if you think it's so prevalent.

 

[Speevy]

I think piracy runs rampant throughout the world, but I have no desire to make such accusations.

Further, why does a statement so obvious elicit such a defensive response?

It's like "Hey a lot of people do drugs."

and someone responding "You can't prove that! Unless you can prove that, SHUT UP!"

It's a bizarre way to approach an issue which should be wide open.

 

[H_Prestige]

I think it's piracy when you start making copies and selling or distributing them to others.

I don't think it's piracy if you're just making a backup of a game you bought for yourself to use.

 

[Shambles]

It becomes piracy when I need an LRAD to fend you off from stealing my cargo. Otherwise, it's (not) copyright infringement.

 

[Haunted]

1) not piracy
2) not piracy
3) not piracy
4) not piracy if you're using it for local lan play regardless of user agreements, piracy if you're both playing on an ongoing bases
4a) same as 4
4b) not piracy
4c) not piracy
5) not piracy
6) not piracy
7) not piracy, but you should turn off uploading, because that's participating in piracy
7a) same as 7
8) not piracy
8a) not piracy, but you should avoid downloading "omg every single game on a console" torrents because you don't own the other games
8b) not piracy
9) not piracy

A mod said it, so it's the law. Put this in the ToS, we're done here.

 

[Reikon]

Everything other than 3, 4, 4a, and 5 are illegal or at least legal greyzones in the US. However, I don't consider any of them to be ethically wrong or akin to piracy. They're what we used to consider fair use until media companies got super aggressive on taking away what we can do with what we bought.

I believe piracy is playing a game you don't have a license to play in any form.

 

[Jucksalbe]

[1] Not piracy, but illegal.
[2] Not piracy, but illegal
[3] Not piracy, but illegal in Germany.
[4] Not piracy, that would be dumb.
[4a] I don't see the difference between a new and a used game
[4b] That's a bit strange, not piracy, but only in this very limited scenario.
[4c] same as above
[5] Piracy, as you don't own the game anymore.
[6] Piracy
[7] Piracy
[7a] Piracy
[8] Depends. First if you still own the console, I don't think it's piracy. though dumping the ROM might be illegal. In Germany it is if you consider catridges a form of copy protection.
[8a] not piracy
[8b] piracy
[9] piracy, because you don't own the game, you own a different version of it (if by retro compilation you mean something like the Sega Genesis Collection)

 

[jvm]

It becomes piracy when I need an LRAD to fend you off from stealing my cargo. Otherwise, it's (not) copyright infringement.

Good post.

Adopting the word "piracy", as generally pushed by the copyright cartels (movie industry, music industry), is accepting their more restrictive idea of copyright and fair use. Use copyright infringement when you mean "making copies under potentially dubious circumstances".

Moreover, there is a distinction between making a copy (e.g. the very act of ripping an ISO) and distribution (uploading a copy of that ISO to a site accessible by others).

The whole mess is very ugly, and it generally should be discussed on a case-by-case basis. Throwing out a bunch of examples will only cloud the issue, IMO, whereas putting up a single example at a time for discussion is a better approach.

 

[onken]

To be honest I usually base my actions on my own morale guidelines not some spurious bullshit made up for the benefit of corporations that differs anyway from country to country.

I would regard none of those as piracy. In fact, I think if you are no longer able to purchase it new (not from some scalping reseller) then it's fair game.

 

[Gravijah]

[5] Piracy, as you don't own the game anymore.

What's the point of a personal backup if you can't use it when the original is destroyed? What if I kept the original in tiny pieces, do I still not own it?

 

[DaBuddaDa]

Anything you do that would otherwise prevent someone else or yourself from having to pay for the game is piracy. I see no distinction between used and new. Sometimes the distinction between what is "piracy" and what is "moral" is tough:

[1] Purchasing a game NEW, then using a No CD crack because DRM/driver/compatability issues are causing you difficulties running from the disk?
No sale is lost therefore it is not piracy.

[2] Purchasing a game NEW, then using a NO CD crack because you don't want to keep inserting and removing the disk?
No sale is lost therefore it is not piracy.

[3] Purchasing a game NEW, then making a backup and playing from this to preserve your original purchase.
No sale is lost therefore it is not piracy.

[4] Purchasing a game NEW, then letting a friend borrow this original?
Questionable. People have been doing it for decades with vinyl, tapes, cds, movies, etc. My counter-question would be: does everyone have to pay for everything that's given to them? Lets say a friend comes over and wants to borrow the lawnmower. Should I not let him borrow it because it would be taking a sale away from John Deere? How is that any different from loaning a video game, or a CD, or anything that isn't consumable, like food?

[4a] Purchasing a game USED, then letting a friend borrow this original?
Same as 4

[4b] Purchasing a game NEW, making a backup, and letting your friend borrow your backup? (the original is still preserved and never used)
As long as the original is never used (highly unlikely), then I would call this piracy but it's "ok" piracy.

[4c] Purchasing a game USED, making a backup, and letting your friend borrow your backup? (the used original is still preserved and never used)
See 4b

[5] Purchasing a game NEW, your original is destroyed in an accident and playing from your backup?
A sale is lost therefore it is piracy

[6] Purchasing a game NEW, your original is destroyed in an accident and you make a copy of a friend's disk to continue playing?
A sale is lost therefore it is piracy

[7] Purchasing a game NEW, your original is destroyed in an accident, and you download an ISO from a torrent site to continue playing?
A sale is lost therefore it is piracy

[7a] Purchasing a game USED, your original is destroyed in an accident, and you download an ISO from a torrent site to replace it?
A sale is lost therefore it is piracy

[8]Dumping a ROM from a cartridge you purchased a decade ago, then using various emulators and hardware to play this ROM?
A sale is not lost therefore it is not piracy

[8a]Downloading a ROM dump from a torrent site of a game cartridge you purchased a decade ago?
If you still have the game, then a sale is not lost therefore it is not piracy. If you don't have the cartridge anymore then a sale is lost therefore it is piracy.

[8b]Downloading a ROM dump from a torrent site of a game cartridge you purchased a decade ago, but have since lost?
A sale is lost therefore it is piracy

[9] Downloading multiple ROM hacks of a retro game, when you have purchased the original game itself as part of a recent retro compilation disk.
A sale (of the original game cartridge/cd/whatever) is lost therefore it is piracy

 

[onken]

[3] Purchasing a game NEW, then making a backup and playing from this to preserve your original purchase.
No sale is lost therefore it is not piracy.
[5] Purchasing a game NEW, your original is destroyed in an accident and playing from your backup?
A sale is lost therefore it is piracy

Firstly, these contradict each other. What's the point of being able to make a backup if you're not allowed to use it?

Also the problem with this line of reasoning is that it's not necessarily a lost sale. If one of my old game discs breaks and I have a choice between buying another copy or just not playing it, the majority of the time I'd probably take the latter.

 

[Christine]

So, if I understand correctly, letting a friend borrow one of your games is illegal?

What if they play it at your home instead of theirs?

I can't believe you're even entertaining this concept. The body of law in question is COPYright. If no copying occurs, how can it possibly apply? 4 and 4a shouldn't even be on the list.

 

[DaBuddaDa]

Yeah the problem with this line of reasoning it is not necessarily a lost sale. If one of my old game discs breaks and I have a choice between buying another copy or just not playing it, the majority of the time I'd probably take the latter.

If you take the latter, then you're not pirating anything...so it's ok! I'm not saying they're necessarily lost sales, I'm saying: if you wish to continue playing the game, another copy of the game must be purchased in order to continue (you may not want to play the game anymore, so then you simply won't purchase another).