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Rime Creative Director: "Reading Neogaf made me cry for two days"

The Dude

Member
like what?


I don't keep track specifically or anything just something I notice here and there.

I was bummed last night as I had one that got locked, it was a Nintendo Switch RPG Discussion... Just anything and everything rpg talk for Switch, the thread was a good read and I was enjoying it but came back to have some mod act as if the thread had some underlying agenda.

But I've seen other threads that just seemed like decent conversation get shut down and I am just a fan of good conversation as long as it's not just a bunch of ridiculous back and forth pointless bickering.
 
I wish more people would take my approach when it comes to the gaming side. I RARELY ever talk shit about something. Not because I'm afraid to voice my opinion but I just don't see any point to it. I just dislike being a parade shitter. Unless the thread is specifically to ask an opinion on somethings quality you will never see me do it. And even in those threads it'll be one comment.

It really doesn't take a whole lot of restraint either. Topic about a game I think sucks? I don't even care to click into it. Topic about a trailer to a hyped game? I'll give it a watch and skim some posts, if I didn't like it I'll quickly try to articulate my thoughts on it and leave it but more often than not I just hit back and continue onto something I like and want to talk about.

In OT I actually don't mind the shit slinging lol. I don't do it much but I don't mind it.
 

Audioboxer

Member
Look into Thatcherism and Reganism, and the changes in society in the 1980s, i.e. the birth of Neoliberalism. Thinking of ourselves as individual consumers rather than participants in a particular economic system is a core tenant of free market Neoliberalism. The point is to try and mask the political reality of our interaction with the market, and position us as
"hard working individuals who have the right to X Y and Z", the implication being that we have more of a right than other people. This is in contrast to the collectivist/social democratic goals of the welfare state, where universal benefits are based around an egalitarian approach to serving society.

You see the results of this in public reaction to stuff like strikes. "I pay my taxes, so why should I suffer when train drivers strike? Their pay and working conditions are their problem" etc. The consumer, in this case the passenger, doesn't realise that they are intrinsically linked to the train driver through our economic system. Because they view themselves as a totally atomised individual consumer, they can't sympathise or show solidarity with the conditions of the worker.

So it terms of video games, it's a bit more complex, but it boils down to the same thing- an unwillingness to critically engage with the damage that publishers and platform holders cause via their relentless drive for profit and the super exploitation of workers. Under this system, both the artists (the devs) and the audience (us) suffer equally, hence we're one and the same, and the dev vs. consumer binary is totally false.

Again, you're trying a bit too hard to almost shame consumers from criticising devs as it somehow means being complicit in corporate workplace abuses? These are not two totally interchangeable topics. If you work for a publisher who mistreats you, and then a product you put out sucks, you don't simply have free reign to say to every single person who says that game sucks "my working conditions mean you should shut your mouth because... Thatcherism and Reganism!".

We can have a conversation on corporate America/crunch culture whilst also having a conversation about why consumers don't like feeling abused/tricked/deceived/mis-sold/etc. I think you will find in most situations where workplace abuse is rumoured/proven nearly every damn poster on GAF will be on the devs side, even IF their products suck. Consumers can say both things at the same time! This product is hot garbage/this publisher is hot garbage for mistreating. No one likes the man crushing the employee, as most of us are there in our working lives, or have had jobs like that.

Sometimes though products just suck and/or devs just lie/mislead/put out broken shit. That is going to get harsh words, especially on an enthusiast gaming forum.
 

Ashtar

Member
I've seen people shit on games, then pretty much do a 180 when they realize the dev is a GAFer and active in the thread itself. Even if the dev doesn't reply to them specifically, just the realization that their words can reach the ears of the game's creator seems to spark some sort of epiphany and suddenly the game goes from "trash" to "very competent effort". I don't know if it's deference or just instinctive conflict avoidance.

It's actually pretty funny to see, in a cringe comedy kind of way. :)
I'll admit I've done this, it's easy to fall into tbt, I've been about to say some pretty mean things then a dev posts and I'm like hmmm maybe take it down a notch. The difference is yelling something into a void because let's be real most post don't deserve a passing thought and a real life person albeit on a keyboard on the other end
 

The Dude

Member
I simply hate how easy it is for people to just fire off online, it's so easy. I think it's more respectable to keep your cool, look at things from a constructive position and interact like a normal person. The shit pilers and hatred are a dime a dozen, It's pure forum fodder in my book.
 

Noobcraft

Member
Rime creator can take solace in the fact that we don't play games here at GAF. We argue about them and mess around in photomode, but we don't actually play them.
 
NeoGAF largely positive and encourages discussion? Have you been into a thread where a discussion gets completely derailed because of drive by first posts? A Nintendo thread where people hate a game and spread misinformation about something they never played? This place is especially toxic compared to some other forums I go to because of all the fanboy wankery.
tbf do you know how intellectually soft this is? How many excellent threads of wonderful discussion must be weighed against inflammatory list warz exercises? Is there a proper ratio? I offer the opposite, this place is especially fantastic for havens of fan discussions.

You all need to find some community threads for your favorite series and genres pronto mi amigos and amigas.
 

SargerusBR

I love Pokken!
Do Modbots cry? 🤔
Avengers+58+px20.JPG
 

Bronetta

Ask me about the moon landing or the temperature at which jet fuel burns. You may be surprised at what you learn.
I miss bishoptl. We need a no nonsense mod like that again.
 

lmimmfn

Member
Weird how a dev would take GAF opinions so seriously 70% will be negative, with the rest positive

Not being disrespectful, its just opinions and views are so polarizing. Not something you can really work with.

I mean this in terms of opinions/views not technically.
 

Son Of D

Member
I wish more people would take my approach when it comes to the gaming side. I RARELY ever talk shit about something. Not because I'm afraid to voice my opinion but I just don't see any point to it. I just dislike being a parade shitter. Unless the thread is specifically to ask an opinion on somethings quality you will never see me do it. And even in those threads it'll be one comment.

It really doesn't take a whole lot of restraint either. Topic about a game I think sucks? I don't even care to click into it. Topic about a trailer to a hyped game? I'll give it a watch and skim some posts, if I didn't like it I'll quickly try to articulate my thoughts on it and leave it but more often than not I just hit back and continue onto something I like and want to talk about.

In OT I actually don't mind the shit slinging lol. I don't do it much but I don't mind it.

This is the thinking I have too. You won't see me posting in threads about For Honor or Battlefield (to name two examples) since I have no interest in those games. Although I'll admit I try and avoid threads for games/franchises I do care about sometimes because of the fanbase (most notably FF threads, especially the newer FF games since they can go shit so fast).
 
The funny thing is... NeoGAF is probably the most considerate and adult mainstream gaming community on the web. And yet we're still occasionally incredibly toxic and vicious. God knows I've been swept up in it before.
 

Instro

Member
I simply hate how easy it is for people to just fire off online, it's so easy. I think it's more respectable to keep your cool, look at things from a constructive position and interact like a normal person. The shit pilers and hatred are a dime a dozen, It's pure forum fodder in my book.

I think part of the problem, and I know I'm guilty of this, is posting from a smartphone. It's just so much easier to drop a hot take or a truncated post, that might come off better when responding from a laptop or PC, than it is to type out lengthy well thought out discussion.
 

QisTopTier

XisBannedTier
The funny thing is... NeoGAF is probably the most considerate and adult mainstream gaming community on the web. And yet we're still occasionally incredibly toxic and vicious. God knows I've been swept up in it before.

Fingers at a keyboard tend to bring out inner thoughts of a person. It's like being in a room of drunks but less fun as there is no booze :p
 

Mik2121

Member
Having worked on a few projects that have received threads in this forum, you eventually get used to seeing a few people completely assuming the wrong thing and then acting like it was a fact and trying to convince others about it.

In most cases, it might partially be the developers/publishers' fault because of a lack of communication, in some cases is straight on malice. But as many people has said, this is the internet, so you gotta grow some thick skin. There have been a few instances where I really wanted to post something to reply, but yeah... that'd cause even more trouble (especially since I'm not working for myself but for a publisher).

Either way, for every person shitting on your game, you usually get a few people also praising it or at least liking some of what they see. I don't think there are really that many games that have been mainly shitted on except for things like No Man's Sky (and they got a lot of praise on their latest massive patch thread).
 
I don't keep track specifically or anything just something I notice here and there.

I was bummed last night as I had one that got locked, it was a Nintendo Switch RPG Discussion... Just anything and everything rpg talk for Switch, the thread was a good read and I was enjoying it but came back to have some mod act as if the thread had some underlying agenda.

But I've seen other threads that just seemed like decent conversation get shut down and I am just a fan of good conversation as long as it's not just a bunch of ridiculous back and forth pointless bickering.

C'mon dude, that thread devolved into port begging and was centered around a singular console. I don't think any other console gets to do that as well - usually it's just JRPG thread No. 23.
 
I mean there are crappy people everywhere, is this really a surprise? Any place that has a good amount of people gathering will have issues. I find the mods do a pretty good job of not letting things go too far, they can't police everyone though, eventually we gotta take responsibility for our own actions.
 
Here's what I know - this is a website filled with a diverse collection of passionate hobbyists. Most people joined because they were passionate about video games and the industry at large. I know I joined because I felt like my personal friends weren't very passionate or knowledgeable about gaming and it was enticing to have a board filled with seemingly like-minded people where we could conversate about the hobby in both a positive and critical manner.

Once you go down the rabbit hole, it becomes apparent that the forum, whether it be the gaming board, off topic, wherever - it's very reflective of the general population off of the forum - you get both positive, well educated people as well as people who aire on a wilder side and tend to have a negative skew. GAF definitely has a prominent position in the industry where both members and lurkers come from studios working on the games we discuss as well as people like myself who are hobbyists and simply enjoy discussing the hobby with similarly educated individuals who know details of the industry, the hobby and the people within it.

While I think it's unfortunate that developers sometimes feel targeted or attacked by members of the forum, I think it's important to remember that at the end of the day, this was a forum started by a guy who loved talking about games and pop culture as a whole and was later populated by individuals with a similar passion and their own unique opinions. If you drop any few people at a round table, the discussion, while likely to be held in a civil manner by educated individuals, will wind up breeding conflict and differing opinions. Much like in general society, people convey their opinions passionately and sometimes defend them with extreme and perhaps unnecessary behavior - that's human nature. We're passionate about our passions, sometimes for better, sometimes for worse.

When you break it down, we're just a community of people from different walks of life, of all genders and religions, all with an uncommon education on topics we're all incredibly passionate about. For whatever reason, our little board drew the attention of the people creating the items we often agonize and scrutinize over and like with any creative medium, it is very hard to cope with criticism on something you have put your heart and soul into. Of course there are those of us who tend to be more extreme while expressing our thoughts on matters presented to us often with limited information, sometimes with incorrect information, but more often than not, those who cross lines of decency while expressing their opinions are dealt with by the moderation team.

It's hard to determine exactly who or what set off the strongest emotional response for the creative director of this game - but if history managed to repeat itself, it's safe to say that if anything was unreasonably unfair or unnecessarily vicious, the moderators most likely dealt with it accordingly.
I can only speak for myself when I say that my time on the forum has shown me both extremely positive and shockingly negative experiences, both of which I hadn't expected to see years ago when I had signed up for the site. What I know for a fact though is that the positive experiences the forum has fostered has far outweighed whatever negative experiences I encountered and in almost every case of a negative event, it was dealt with fairly and swiftly by moderators and the actions performed by negative individuals were often condemned by the majority of the members who had also bore witness to it.

NeoGAF is a diverse place of passionate people, sometimes that can breed tension or negativity. It's hardly a secret that passion can create friction. But for the countless hours I have spent on the site, either participating directly in discussion or simply by spectating, I have seen more kindness, generosity, knowledge and commitment to accuracy, morality and decency than I have in any other community online or otherwise. I don't keep the site open on my phone 24/7 for nothing. I just wish that the individual cited in the OP could have been privy to all of the positivity I regularly encounter as an active member instead of the occasional negative spells.
 

meerak

Member
GAF and the rest of the internet will never care about people.

It's just more "funny" and "cool" to shit on things in this pathetic culture.

Until that changes, forget it.
 
not having bish around in the run up to 2016 has probably made this place shittier in the long term

I usually keep quiet about these things, but I have indeed noticed this same thing. That's not to diminish the work of other honest, hard-working mods, but there's definitely been a change around here lately. And not for the better :-(
 

entremet

Member
I think people forget that in all creative endeavors there is a personal investment that creates a very strong attachment to the creator.

People saying the developer shouldn't cry or take it personally are missing the fucking the point. If someone put tons of time, effort, and heart in a project, of course they're going to respond emotionally to criticism. People are human.

Moreover, this appears to the developers first big project. Developing a thick skin to criticism takes time. Jeez, people.
 
GAF and the rest of the internet will never care about people.

It's just more "funny" and "cool" to shit on things in this pathetic culture.

Until that changes, forget it.
“The children now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise.” - Socrates
 

QisTopTier

XisBannedTier
GAF and the rest of the internet will never care about people.

It's just more "funny" and "cool" to shit on things in this pathetic culture.

Until that changes, forget it.

Nah I'm gonna call bullshit on you here, as someone who FGC GAF helped get to EVO twice covering my full expenses when I never even asked for it to begin with.
 
C'mon dude, that thread devolved into port begging and was centered around a singular console. I don't think any other console gets to do that as well - usually it's just JRPG thread No. 23.
We've had Switch threads locked when discussing specific developers claiming they're bringing their games to the platform yet that Sega one for PC has been going for years. Port begging is odd as most of the time "I hope they bring this to Steam" is ok but "I hope they bring this to Switch" isn't. As long as the conversation is healthy and isn't aimlessly begging for exclusives that have no chance of coming to a platform I personally don't see a problem.
 

Toparaman

Banned
The funny thing is... NeoGAF is probably the most considerate and adult mainstream gaming community on the web. And yet we're still occasionally incredibly toxic and vicious. God knows I've been swept up in it before.

I generally try not to say anything on here that I wouldn't say in person, but I've probably fucked up at least once in the last month alone.

It's hard to have tact when you're (semi) anonymous and you know you won't face social consequences for being a snarky asshole.
 
If you work for a publisher who mistreats you, and then a product you put out sucks, you don't simply have free reign to say to every single person who says that game sucks "my working conditions mean you should shut your mouth because... Thatcherism and Reganism!".

I didn't mean simply workplace abuses, it's about the economic system which makes those abuses inevitable. And also, I'm all for giving opinions on games, but it's the way that a lot of gamers take it personally, and so deal out personal abuse towards devs. It's not personal. Something just went wrong during the making of the game.

The idea that devs 'lie' in the personal, emotive sense that some gamers mean, is absolutely laughable. Tin foil hat stuff. The stupid exaggeration or macho hyping up that you occasionally see during the marketing of a game is fueled by publishers, platform holders and the aggressive nature of the industry, not by individual bad devs who just want to hoodwink 'consumers'.

Also, the stuff you said in your previous post: "In a realm where so much money is blown on marketing, vertical slices, careful demos, PR, previews/reviews and so on, consumers are often surrounded by a minefield of information"- that is to do with publishers and platform holders, and not the people who actually make games. We should be joining up with the people who make games to fight shit like this. Same goes with broken games etc. I'm pretty sure the instances of creative teams who had loads of resources and time and still messed up are far fewer than those of creative teams who were denied resources then forced to put out an incomplete game by their publisher.
 

Alucrid

Banned
We've had Switch threads locked when discussing specific developers claiming they're bringing their games to the platform yet that Sega one for PC has been going for years. Port begging is odd as most of the time "I hope they bring this to Steam" is ok but "I hope they bring this to Switch" isn't. As long as the conversation is healthy and isn't aimlessly begging for exclusives that have no chance of coming to a platform I personally don't see a problem.

an all inclusive switch rpg thread just seems pointless. games that are out will have their own OT. games that aren't out get new threads for new news. what's left for a switch rpg thread?
 
Oh, can you elaborate what happened?

There's nothing to elaborate on really. One day Evilore announced bishoptl's services were no longer needed, but no more explanation than that from him. For what it's worth the announcement followed a previous mass ban so you could reach some conclusions about that but at this point it's pure speculation.
 
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