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[Drencrom]

We can't make you be nice.

For the various folks who'd like to blame moderation for allowing people to act cruelly, that's something you should probably know. More to the point, you don't want us to try and make you be nice, because we have blunt tools, and the way we'd do it is tighten up on banning negative, hostile comments.

You don't want us to do that, because you're guilty of it. Go look in your reading history right now. If you can't find a single comment that someone might think was nasty or unpleasant, I will be deeply surprised. That means the rest of you would be banned.

No rule we can put up, no pogrom of bans, no effort on our part can make you change the way you talk to other people. I've spent a lot of time on OT trying to convince people not to be assholes directly to each other, with little success, so the idea that we're going to stop people from being assholes about someone who isn't here or made promises they didn't keep, is a fantasy.

The only person that can make you behave better, make you remember that there are people on the other side of the keyboard, is you. And you can't make anyone else behave better, either. Each of us can only be responsible for ourselves.

It's easy to blame "GAF" as if the software and hardware were making the comments. It's easy to blame moderation, although it's you guys who create all the content, not us. It's less easy to take a look at your own posting and make changes. But if you want GAF to be a nicer place, that's literally your only option, because GAF is a collective of thousands of different voices, and those voices create the chorus that people perceive.

So keep throwing stones -- at developers, at moderators, at your fellow posters -- but you're part of the problem, and rather than deal with your part in the problem, you're engaging in negativity about other posters, the forum, and its staff. Try, instead, treating fellow posters, developers, and staff as if they were people. Consider that your funny, cruel joke is less funny and more cruel, and maybe don't post it. Moderate your language and instead of calling people scam artists, or shoving your head up your ass in self-righteousness about your consumer rights, consider that the company you're railing against is really just people trying to make something neat and failing rather than a conspiracy to rob you and make you play bad games.

This is a damn good post

 

[QisTopTier]

I have tried for the last 3 years to get along with people here, but I decided that putting people on ignore is just a more enjoyable experience. If someone is a massive jerk or constantly condescending/passive aggressive, I don't want to read what you have to say.

The last few months have been liberating because of this.

This is the best way to go about things if certain posters upset you, sadly it still shows that they posted but there is a chrome mod I believe that gets rid of that.

I have a ton of posters I don't really agree with and feel they can be a bit too extreme at times in one way or another but personally I don't use the ignore feature because I just like the idea of absorbing different viewpoints on things in the world even if I don't agree with them or like the idea of some of them even being a thing.

 

[fabricated backlash]

We can't make you be nice.

For the various folks who'd like to blame moderation for allowing people to act cruelly, that's something you should probably know. More to the point, you don't want us to try and make you be nice, because we have blunt tools, and the way we'd do it is tighten up on banning negative, hostile comments.

You don't want us to do that, because you're guilty of it. Go look in your reading history right now. If you can't find a single comment that someone might think was nasty or unpleasant, I will be deeply surprised. That means the rest of you would be banned.

No rule we can put up, no pogrom of bans, no effort on our part can make you change the way you talk to other people. I've spent a lot of time on OT trying to convince people not to be assholes directly to each other, with little success, so the idea that we're going to stop people from being assholes about someone who isn't here or made promises they didn't keep, is a fantasy.

The only person that can make you behave better, make you remember that there are people on the other side of the keyboard, is you. And you can't make anyone else behave better, either. Each of us can only be responsible for ourselves.

It's easy to blame "GAF" as if the software and hardware were making the comments. It's easy to blame moderation, although it's you guys who create all the content, not us. It's less easy to take a look at your own posting and make changes. But if you want GAF to be a nicer place, that's literally your only option, because GAF is a collective of thousands of different voices, and those voices create the chorus that people perceive.

So keep throwing stones -- at developers, at moderators, at your fellow posters -- but you're part of the problem, and rather than deal with your part in the problem, you're engaging in negativity about other posters, the forum, and its staff. Try, instead, treating fellow posters, developers, and staff as if they were people. Consider that your funny, cruel joke is less funny and more cruel, and maybe don't post it. Moderate your language and instead of calling people scam artists, or shoving your head up your ass in self-righteousness about your consumer rights, consider that the company you're railing against is really just people trying to make something neat and failing rather than a conspiracy to rob you and make you play bad games.

One of the main reason I stopped from engaging too much on GAF, to stop contributing to all the negativity. It is scary how easy it is for me to get caught up in the negativity and feed right into it.
And for that I'm sorry and actually sad.

 

[Bold One]

Being able to take criticism is a cornerstone of any creative's mental makeup.

Neogaf is an 'exclusive club' but gaffers can also be as toxic and vicious as any internet mob - (No Man's Sky).

However, we are by no means representative of the wider world. Were I a creator, I wouldn't waste my time on the opinions of anyone here. We are a niche collective and not the trendsetters or taste-makers we perceive ourselves to be.

Brexit

Trump

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

Word up at besada's post, let me try to clean it up

And I actually forgot all about Rime, I'll check it out when it drops

 

[Vegetable Lasagna]

Wait, wait, hold on a sec, modbot. Can someone help out our friend?


General commentary:

-Should probably be talking about your two whole day cry with your therapist and not Edge Magazine. Also sounds like it would be pretty cathartic in any case. Did you emerge from your cocoon of tears a brave new boy new ready to face your first actual challenges in life? I bet you did! You're quite welcome.

-Criticism or accusation on a video game message board about a creative work triggering a traumatic psychological event from the creative director does not constitute contradictory evidence against the criticism or accusation. In other words, NeoGAF's not Bad Monster Who Is Wrong because of this guy's tears. That's an appeal to pity, not a rebuttal to anything he read.

-NeoGAF is actively moderated and we don't very much tolerate personal attacks, hate speech, and unsubstantiated claims. What we don't police, however, is someone not liking a thing you like or you liking a thing someone else doesn't like. If you keep it civil, don't drag a thread down around your own ego (unless you're me, *wink*, *thread unlock*), and back up your positions, and you're not just being inflammatory for the sake of it, then things are probably operating as intended. If you're uncomfortable with your favorite game or favorite developer-turned-god being criticized, go have yourself a good cry and head elsewhere.

-Despite someone having a breakdown here and there, or someone making a public exit some other time, or whatever a blowhard on Twitter says, the industry and the press follow NeoGAF pretty closely, and most industry folks are totally chill about the site. A lot of indies have expressed love and appreciation for the organic exposure they've gotten here that helped bring their projects to the spotlight on their own merit and thank me that NeoGAF exists and remains an independent entity where that can actually happen, and at the other end of the spectrum lots of AAA studios have taken notes on issues highlighted here and acknowledged and appreciated feedback, even very harsh feedback.

Most creatives figure out how to cope with criticism of their work and adjust accordingly. Some enjoy engaging directly on social platforms and can ignore any random trolls that might drive by, some watch from the sidelines to varying degrees, some ignore what the internet has to say entirely.

Someone compulsively chose to read the accumulated criticism of their thing in one go and cried afterwards. After serious and lengthy deliberation I have decided...not to shut down NeoGAF in response to this news. Thanks!

We can't make you be nice.

For the various folks who'd like to blame moderation for allowing people to act cruelly, that's something you should probably know. More to the point, you don't want us to try and make you be nice, because we have blunt tools, and the way we'd do it is tighten up on banning negative, hostile comments.

You don't want us to do that, because you're guilty of it. Go look in your reading history right now. If you can't find a single comment that someone might think was nasty or unpleasant, I will be deeply surprised. That means the rest of you would be banned.

No rule we can put up, no pogrom of bans, no effort on our part can make you change the way you talk to other people. I've spent a lot of time on OT trying to convince people not to be assholes directly to each other, with little success, so the idea that we're going to stop people from being assholes about someone who isn't here or made promises they didn't keep, is a fantasy.

The only person that can make you behave better, make you remember that there are people on the other side of the keyboard, is you. And you can't make anyone else behave better, either. Each of us can only be responsible for ourselves.

It's easy to blame "GAF" as if the software and hardware were making the comments. It's easy to blame moderation, although it's you guys who create all the content, not us. It's less easy to take a look at your own posting and make changes. But if you want GAF to be a nicer place, that's literally your only option, because GAF is a collective of thousands of different voices, and those voices create the chorus that people perceive.

So keep throwing stones -- at developers, at moderators, at your fellow posters -- but you're part of the problem, and rather than deal with your part in the problem, you're engaging in negativity about other posters, the forum, and its staff. Try, instead, treating fellow posters, developers, and staff as if they were people. Consider that your funny, cruel joke is less funny and more cruel, and maybe don't post it. Moderate your language and instead of calling people scam artists, or shoving your head up your ass in self-righteousness about your consumer rights, consider that the company you're railing against is really just people trying to make something neat and failing rather than a conspiracy to rob you and make you play bad games.

lol

 

[FallingSputnik]

Is probably more accurate lately. But I generally agree with what EvilLore is saying even if I might not agree with the tone.

I think the gaming side of GAF is a great example of everything that's wrong with the internet. There's definitely a mob mentality here a lot of times. I wonder how many of the people posting about games have actually played the game.

This is true, first page comments are usually one user agreeing with the previous comment. It's so annoying, don't they have their own opinions?

 

[Twilight Princess]

damn, he went through a lot of comments. why didn't he just stop? and there's gotta be people who said nice things in those comments?

 

[PtM]

I do agree that there tend to be a lot of snap reactions to things, I've done it and I know everyone else has. Now before I post I just try to think about how my message will be read, how will it contribute to the conversation, and then I still wonder if I should post it.

[...]

PS I don't believe you cried for 2 days. My dad died in front of me in 2005 suddenly from massive heart failure, I cried for 2 days and rightly so. If you're crying for 2 days from internet criticism you need to see a therapist.

¯\_(&#12484_/¯

 

[fvng]

The sort of viciousness coming from gamers reminds me of U.K. Tabloids, destroying people just because they can and for the sick pleasure of it. If something isn't breaking new ground it's horrible. Minor Frame rate dips = irredeemable game. Gamers are quick to trash games that developers clearly pour their heart and soul into and rip it apart due to unreasonable expectations. It's really toxic and I hate it.

 

[Weltall Zero]

It's a weird situation that I often see come up in the Easy Allies thread. People will drop in and be like "man I hate it when such and such does this" or "I've never liked the way this particular person produces videos/presents themself". They're throwaway comments that aren't always mean, but when you consider several of the allies are active in that thread it becomes a little different.

I've seen people shit on games, then pretty much do a 180 when they realize the dev is a GAFer and active in the thread itself. Even if the dev doesn't reply to them specifically, just the realization that their words can reach the ears of the game's creator seems to spark some sort of epiphany and suddenly the game goes from "trash" to "very competent effort". I don't know if it's deference or just instinctive conflict avoidance.

It's actually pretty funny to see, in a cringe comedy kind of way.

 

[The Dude]

Overall gaf isn't to bad, some of the dog piling is a bit out of place at times but overall you can get a decent conversation.

Nothin compares to a cesspool that sadly I help create years back called Dayonepatch. It came about from when IGN changed alot of things and people wanted a new board, and the vision I had for it was to be more like gaf... But it became even worse than the vestibule.

Ultimately tho, what a shame for this guy... That shouldn't happen, people need to just chill. I don't get why online opens the door for people to just go nuts but I honestly feel that those who are hateful simply have pathetic lives in general, and by making others feel bad it helps them feel better about their life.

 

[Raging Spaniard]

I see a lot of "toughen up" posts by people who probably wouldn't take criticism on neogaf very well.

 

[Neuromancer]

"Maybe people can love something so much that they can hate it" should probably be the second, unofficial motto of this place. I know I am guilty of it sometimes.

As for this game, I don't remember being all that critical other than losing enthusiasm over time. ~4 years is a really long time to have to wait for a game. Still, I am cautiously optimistic that it will turn out well in the end.

 

[Stairouais]

A leader has to take it all in otherwise feelings will interfere with work. If he can't handle the negativity then he's in the wrong industry.

Why do you think people like Sean Murray or Peter Molyneaux exist? Because they don't give a flying damn what you think about their games.

Yeah, I'm sure Sean Murray and his team lived through this mess like nothing ever happened.

 

[mclem]

ALL JERKS WHO DON'T PLAY MAKE GAF A CRUEL TOY
ALL JERKS WHO DON'T PLAY MAKE GAF A CRUEL TOY
ALL JERKS WHO DON'T PLAY MAKE GAF A CRUEL TOY
ALL JERKS WHO DON'T PLAY MAKE GAF A CRUEL TOY
ALL JERKS WHO DON'T PLAY MAKE GAF A CRUEL TOY

 

[QisTopTier]

I've seen people shit on games, then pretty much do a 180 when they realize the dev is a GAFer and active in the thread itself. Even if the dev doesn't reply to them specifically, just the realization that their words can reach the ears of the game's creator seems to spark some sort of epiphany and suddenly the game goes from "trash" to "very competent effort". I don't know if it's deference or just instinctive conflict avoidance.

It's actually pretty funny to see, in a cringe comedy kind of way.

People being two faced as fuck is pretty common in all walks of life. It's considered mean to talk down to a person and such. But soon as said person is gone they don't worry about the other person anymore. It's conflict avoidance for the most part.

I tend to just speak my mind on shit, I've been threatened before, I've made friends that way before and sometimes both. In the long run I've always been under the mindset of if you can't work the nerves to say it to said persons face then just stfu about said person when talking with others

 

[Not]

I see a lot of "toughen up" posts by people who probably wouldn't take criticism on neogaf very well.

I'm wondering if some people run out of walls to punch

 

[Kyzer]

When I read gaf I cry evertim

Some saiyan

 

[JazzmanZ]

No rule we can put up, no pogrom of bans, no effort on our part can make you change the way you talk to other people. I've spent a lot of time on OT trying to convince people not to be assholes directly to each other, with little success, so the idea that we're going to stop people from being assholes about someone who isn't here or made promises they didn't keep, is a fantasy.

.

Isn't moderation supposed to stop threads from turning into toxic sludge fests?

 

[pswii60]

But we're usually so brutal

Fixed.

Over the years I've seen so many careers and reputations smashed to pieces as a partial or total result of rhetoric on this forum. Even FEZ 2 got cancelled. And Jeff Bell had to leave Microsoft!

One could argue the people brought it upon themselves, but the reaction on here to someone saying even slightly the wrong thing, is a modern day equivalent of a public flogging. Not that GAF is any different to the rest of the internet. I do often cringe and feel sympathy for people like Phil Fish. It's not like these people are trained to deal with the media or when to shut up, like major media personalities and politicians are.

I think posters on here forget that these are real and sometimes vulnerable people, creative types in particular are never going to conform to the norm. There are a lot of hurtful comments that would upset me greatly if I was on the receiving end.

 

[Peltz]

We can't make you be nice.

For the various folks who'd like to blame moderation for allowing people to act cruelly, that's something you should probably know. More to the point, you don't want us to try and make you be nice, because we have blunt tools, and the way we'd do it is tighten up on banning negative, hostile comments.

You don't want us to do that, because you're guilty of it. Go look in your reading history right now. If you can't find a single comment that someone might think was nasty or unpleasant, I will be deeply surprised. That means the rest of you would be banned.

No rule we can put up, no pogrom of bans, no effort on our part can make you change the way you talk to other people. I've spent a lot of time on OT trying to convince people not to be assholes directly to each other, with little success, so the idea that we're going to stop people from being assholes about someone who isn't here or made promises they didn't keep, is a fantasy.

The only person that can make you behave better, make you remember that there are people on the other side of the keyboard, is you. And you can't make anyone else behave better, either. Each of us can only be responsible for ourselves.

It's easy to blame "GAF" as if the software and hardware were making the comments. It's easy to blame moderation, although it's you guys who create all the content, not us. It's less easy to take a look at your own posting and make changes. But if you want GAF to be a nicer place, that's literally your only option, because GAF is a collective of thousands of different voices, and those voices create the chorus that people perceive.

So keep throwing stones -- at developers, at moderators, at your fellow posters -- but you're part of the problem, and rather than deal with your part in the problem, you're engaging in negativity about other posters, the forum, and its staff. Try, instead, treating fellow posters, developers, and staff as if they were people. Consider that your funny, cruel joke is less funny and more cruel, and maybe don't post it. Moderate your language and instead of calling people scam artists, or shoving your head up your ass in self-righteousness about your consumer rights, consider that the company you're railing against is really just people trying to make something neat and failing rather than a conspiracy to rob you and make you play bad games.

I don't know whether GAF would be as entertaining without all the thread derails, shit-posts, and overall ridiculous criticism and unrealistic opinions of its members.

For the most part there are great discussions about games by people who genuinely love them. Personally, I don't really argue with people who are clearly being dickish. I just enjoy insulting them, posting a snarky gif and moving on with my day. For me, it's the best way to handle the trolls.

Moderators generally handle all the posts that "threaten" the culture of the forum (for lack of a better word) - i.e. the racist ones, or the console warrior stuff. And everyone else basically handles the rest of the dumb posts with snark and derision.

In other words, I don't see any issue with the negativity. It's not running unchecked.

 

[Messofanego]

This is interesting in contrast to having played it and renewing my confidence in the game being pretty cool.

I have no idea lmfao, I just looked it up out of curiosity and the most recent rime threads that gained ANY traction were the one about the price being higher for the switch version, the price error, the re-reveal trailer and the thread about the first 27 minutes of footage.

...

I dunno this reception seems to be pretty tame and fairly on par with GAF.

I think it might be the thread about Tequila Works gaining the rights to Rime thanks to Grey Box.

EDGE #305 pg 71

TIME AND REASON
When Rime was announced it was a PlayStation exclusive, but Rubio wanted the studio to retain the rights to the game, and be able to release it on other platforms. Lacking the financial clout needed to buy them back from Sony, however, Tequila needed to find a partner who could help. Its business rep, DDM Agency, introduced the studio to Six Foot, who in turn put Rubio and co in touch with Dreadnought publisher Grey Box. "We had to solve the situation pretty fast because we had responsibilities and they were super-receptive to the idea," Rubio recalls. "They were totally fine with us keeping the rights, they were totally fine not stepping in on any creative decisions - the game is so personal and was so advanced in development, anyone that is messing with it is going to cause a delay in the best case and probably in the worst case is going to collapse the whole thing. When you're dealing with a new publisher, you don't know if they are going to be the cool guy, or try to be the next 'insert evil publisher name here'. We're lucky they turned out to be the cool guy. Working with them has been easy and it's probably something we'd like to repeat."​

But people in the thread didn't know Tequila Works wanted to do that so they could release the game on other platforms instead of just being a Playstation exclusive. They thought dropping Sony exclusivity meant the game was in ruins.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1197753

A smattering of GAFer responses:

So it's not a Sony IP anymore, wonder what went wrong.

EDit: There were some rumors about the relationship between Sony and TW, which was not good.

http://www.gamereactor.es/noticias/286833/Tequila+Works+sigue+desarrollando+Rime+sin+Sony/

Yup, sounds like Sony dropped it

that does not sound good.

Man I was so hyped for this game -__-

Doesn't sound good for the game.

Oh boy, that sounds not good

uh oh

Damn, this must suck for the team. . Game looked super cool.

or it will never come out and be sold to another company

How rough a shape did RiME have to be in to have Sony give up on it?

Well that's a clear sign of a clusterfuck. At this rate I'm not sure this game is ever coming out.

Welp that's not good news.

One of my most anticipated indies too.

This must be a total mess.

Damn, I can't believe I was on the defense about this game. I kept saying it's coming, they won't drop the ball, it looks great.

And now look at this mess. This shit will be Duke Nukem levels of BBQs judging by the Twitter. Maybe not in length of time, but certainly doesn't carry much hope with me.

Very few people picked up on the right idea:

Maybe they decided that multiplatform is the way to go?

I guess they can now publish it on any platform they want, and not just on PS4.

It's 17 pages of doom and gloom, based on rumours and cynicism.

 

[Mechazawa]

I think framing "consumers rights" as an issue with GAF's negativity is really bad example, and a pitfall that even Besada trips into.

In my experience, GAF tends to overwhelmingly be on the right side of the fence when that stuff gets called out, and while there are a lot of jackasses that like to jump in and be overly obnoxious because they wanna get in on the parade of noise, there are also no shortage of people on this board who are ready to go to bat for shit practices.

The No Man's Sky thing definitely veered way too far into people being shitty, not just on GAF but on the greater internet in general, but framing that issue as just a bunch of amateurs who got in over themselves is excusing too much. It was a developer that got a big platform, said a whole lot of shit on that platform, didn't retract a whole lot of that shit when they could have before the game released, and then left a bunch of people out to twist in the wind when they bought in.

 

[Freshmaker]

Were we uncharacteristically mean to Rime or something? GAF is very put up or shut up. Just because something exists doesn't mean it deserves praise. Rime might be awesome. It might be crap. Some people are worried it could be crap. That's the way it is. They can prove its us wrong, but should not take it personally.

Especially considering the kind of sketchy beginnings, it seems some were right to be skeptical. But again, maybe it'll be great. That's not on GAF, it's on them.

Nah. We needed to be a hugbox or else developers might quit the industry. Look what happened to Bioware. Soon as the internet was mean, that dispirited the founders quit allowing EA to ruin the company or something.

Also Derek Smart. What happened to that enthusiastic guy who only wanted to make the best games ever? internet ruined him and made him bitter.

 

[piratepwnsninja]

We can't make you be nice.

For the various folks who'd like to blame moderation for allowing people to act cruelly, that's something you should probably know. More to the point, you don't want us to try and make you be nice, because we have blunt tools, and the way we'd do it is tighten up on banning negative, hostile comments.

You don't want us to do that, because you're guilty of it. Go look in your reading history right now. If you can't find a single comment that someone might think was nasty or unpleasant, I will be deeply surprised. That means the rest of you would be banned.

No rule we can put up, no pogrom of bans, no effort on our part can make you change the way you talk to other people. I've spent a lot of time on OT trying to convince people not to be assholes directly to each other, with little success, so the idea that we're going to stop people from being assholes about someone who isn't here or made promises they didn't keep, is a fantasy.

The only person that can make you behave better, make you remember that there are people on the other side of the keyboard, is you. And you can't make anyone else behave better, either. Each of us can only be responsible for ourselves.

It's easy to blame "GAF" as if the software and hardware were making the comments. It's easy to blame moderation, although it's you guys who create all the content, not us. It's less easy to take a look at your own posting and make changes. But if you want GAF to be a nicer place, that's literally your only option, because GAF is a collective of thousands of different voices, and those voices create the chorus that people perceive.

So keep throwing stones -- at developers, at moderators, at your fellow posters -- but you're part of the problem, and rather than deal with your part in the problem, you're engaging in negativity about other posters, the forum, and its staff. Try, instead, treating fellow posters, developers, and staff as if they were people. Consider that your funny, cruel joke is less funny and more cruel, and maybe don't post it. Moderate your language and instead of calling people scam artists, or shoving your head up your ass in self-righteousness about your consumer rights, consider that the company you're railing against is really just people trying to make something neat and failing rather than a conspiracy to rob you and make you play bad games.

Thanks for this.

I mean, I certainly take criticism a lot better now than I did when I first started in the game industry. It's tough seeing something you've worked on taken through the wringer, especially when my reason for getting into the industry is because I'd wanted to work on games since I received an NES for my birthday in the mid-80s. No matter what I've worked on, and I've worked on some not great games (I'm looking at you The Shield: The Game), I didn't treat it like I was going to be releasing something that was crappy. Did I know that it, due to budget and time, wasn't going to be the best thing ever? Certainly. But I've still put in lots of OT, given up weekends, and missed seeing my family at times in my 12 years as a designer, because in the end I want the parts of whatever I'm working on to be the very best they can be. I'm just a guy who hopes that someone has fun with what the teams I work with create.

When I see what someone like CliffyB posts, or hear it from someone in the industry, I actually try to tell people that this is, for the overwhelming majority, a great community. I come here for my gaming news and to read about new games that are/are coming out. As I mentioned earlier, I mostly avoid threads about stuff I've worked on, but I do read in curiosity sometimes.

Someone said that you can learn to just throw the crufty comments away. I've certainly grown thicker skin, and learned to find the comments that actually help me craft better experiences. What's more frustrating now isn't that someone says "This fucking sucks" but that I get no usable information from "This fucking sucks" that tells me why it does for them. Members absolutely don't owe any more explanation to anyone, but it's still frustrating. Mildly so, but still.

I really do love this place, and appreciate the job that the moderation staff does. They can't be everywhere at once, and as Besada says, if they just started banning everyone that made a sarcastic/mean comment, there wouldn't be any people. There is so much truth in his last paragraph, and when things do make that turn and it becomes the Super Pile On show that I'm admittedly a bit sad for whoever is on the receiving end.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

Isn't moderation supposed to stop threads from turning into toxic sludge fests?

He's saying they can't change who we are.

Case in point...

I don't know whether GAF would be as entertaining without all the thread derails, shit-posts, and overall ridiculous criticism and unrealistic opinions of its members.

For the most part there are great discussions about games by people who genuinely love them. Personally, I don't really argue with people who are clearly being dickish. I just enjoy insulting them, posting a snarky gif and moving on with my day. For me, it's the best way to handle the trolls.

Moderators generally handle all the posts that "threaten" the culture of the forum (for lack of a better word) - i.e. the racist ones, or the console warrior stuff. And everyone else basically handles the rest of the dumb posts with snark and derision.

In other words, I don't see any issue with the negativity. It's not running unchecked.

 

[JCH!]

I love you GAF. Shitposts and all.

 

[CharminUltra]

I love you GAF. Shitposts and all.

I love thoughtful posts as much as anyone, but yeah, GAF wouldn't be GAF w/o the douchey posts or meltdowns. You know you love them, too. That's why I check the site virtually every day.

 

[A.Romero]

In my opinion anyone expecting a large amount of PC in the Internet is setting himself for a rude awakening.

Yes, there are many people who are unable to express a critique about a game without offending the creators on a personal level (doesn't matter if they read it or not), there are many people that will only shit on a product because it's not on their platform of choice or because it's on a platform they don't like and there is people that just didn't like a product and articulate their opinion.

I think it's critical that as society we learn to hear other people voices (no matter how offending they are) and learn to filter. Censorship to protect people feelings is one of the worst things that could happen to humanity (IMHO).

That said, to me devs are just like any other kind of artists and they live of what their customers and fans have to say. If they don't want to be exposed to that then they should create for themselves and never publish (like the character mentioned on that walking simulator which name I can't remember).

Of course we, as fans, should be mindful of people reading us but for example, I respect Kojima and love his work. However I have posted stuff related to the state of MGSV at release and how Konami probably decided to release the game as it was (because of the long dev time), and I would probably say it to his face if he asked.

In other words, it's the nature of the business and devs can be Rockstars or villians. Deal with it or go develop office apps.

 

[Instro]

I once posted a link to a YouTube video of some of my music here on GAF. The YT comments section were filled with racist vitriol after like 4 hours.

The internet is a strange place.

It's not surprising. There are plenty of people here who are total scum elsewhere on the internet, or repost shit from here to anti-GAF pages. They just tone it down on GAF to not get banned. There are lurkers/former members that do the same kind of stuff.

 

[MartyStu]

understandable.
Often people like to think GAF is above other sites or subreddits quality-wise but usually it is just as bad if not even worse if it is a polarizing game for GAF.

I didn't really follow the RIME situation but I understand why he felt that way. Though it probably is not the place to say this at an official interview or an article

EDIT: Decided it is not worth it. not at this point anymore

Exceptions exist, but overall, this forum is quite nice for its size. Can't think of many other online communities this relatively civil.

 

[Fisty]

This is interesting in contrast to having played it and renewing my confidence in the game being pretty cool.



I think it might be the thread about Tequila Works gaining the rights to Rime thanks to Grey Box.

EDGE #305 pg 71

TIME AND REASON
When Rime was announced it was a PlayStation exclusive, but Rubio wanted the studio to retain the rights to the game, and be able to release it on other platforms. Lacking the financial clout needed to buy them back from Sony, however, Tequila needed to find a partner who could help. Its business rep, DDM Agency, introduced the studio to Six Foot, who in turn put Rubio and co in touch with Dreadnought publisher Grey Box. "We had to solve the situation pretty fast because we had responsibilities and they were super-receptive to the idea," Rubio recalls. "They were totally fine with us keeping the rights, they were totally fine not stepping in on any creative decisions - the game is so personal and was so advanced in development, anyone that is messing with it is going to cause a delay in the best case and probably in the worst case is going to collapse the whole thing. When you're dealing with a new publisher, you don't know if they are going to be the cool guy, or try to be the next 'insert evil publisher name here'. We're lucky they turned out to be the cool guy. Working with them has been easy and it's probably something we'd like to repeat."​

But people in the thread didn't know Tequila Works wanted to do that so they could release the game on other platforms instead of just being a Playstation exclusive. They thought dropping Sony exclusivity meant the game was in ruins.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1197753

A smattering of GAFer responses:



























Very few people picked up on the right idea:





It's 17 pages of doom and gloom, based on rumours and cynicism.

This makes zero sense. Sony almost always retained IP they fund, and would have made this blisteringly clear during negotiations. To say the dev decided (after signing away rights to the IP in exchange for exclusivity and a bucket of cash) to back out of the deal, buy back the IP, and shop it around to find another pub?

Makes no sense.

 

[FiraB]

Well at least he didnt go phil fish, better to acknowledge the criticism and do something then let it beat you down.

This place is brutal often but it does have many good opinions inside dedicated topics.

As a indie dev I will say that rime devs did goof, they dropped the ball and had to scramble to get it back so fault is on them.

With a project like that they should have never revealed that early, there is a lot to be said for the rockstar approach.

 

[atbigelow]

I love that some of the first responses in this thread were vitriolic. Dude's not wrong at all.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

Consider that your funny, cruel joke is less funny and more cruel, and maybe don't post it. Moderate your language and instead of calling people scam artists, or shoving your head up your ass in self-righteousness about your consumer rights, consider that the company you're railing against is really just people trying to make something neat and failing rather than a conspiracy to rob you and make you play bad games.

Aye.

This is why I am fine with harsh criticism of game design, gameplay, assets, etc. Have at it. But when one starts attacking the developers themselves, calling them lazy, hacks, frauds, etc etc. without evidence of that and just that they didn't like the game, that's when I roll my eyes at the stupidity and childish sense of entitlement of many gamers.

 

[Chaos17]

-

This is a sad proof that internet doesn't care for truth and are just bored people who like gossips and Gaf isn't an exception. Thank you to have brought us this quote from Edge.

This makes zero sense. Sony almost always retained IP they fund, and would have made this blisteringly clear during negotiations. To say the dev decided (after signing away rights to the IP in exchange for exclusivity and a bucket of cash) to back out of the deal, buy back the IP, and shop it around to find another pub?

Makes no sense.

This sort of deal is private and don't worry that lawyers won't let that pass if it made no sense.
Seriously tis sort of stuff, is not for the public to know because lot of will jump to conclusion like just what you did.
It's unortunate and sad that an jerk made that rumor and public followed it.

 

[blackjaw]

Evilore spoke my opinion on the matter...thanks boss!

 

[Council Pop]

I still don't know why you're invoking "right wing" with "individualism" / "consumer rights"?

It's quite simply really, consumers spend their own money. Either acquired through hard work, allowance, or any sort of income given to them that has to be spent with consideration. That is what the consumer cares about first and foremost, and that is life, there are bills to pay and competing products/services going after left over finances.

Look into Thatcherism and Reganism, and the changes in society in the 1980s, i.e. the birth of Neoliberalism. Thinking of ourselves as individual consumers rather than participants in a particular economic system is a core tenant of the free market philosophies of Neoliberalism. The point is to try and mask the political reality of our interaction with the market, and position us as
"hard working individuals who have the right to X Y and Z", the implication being that we have more of a right than other people. This is in contrast to the collectivist/social democratic goals of the welfare state, where universal benefits are based around an egalitarian approach to serving society.

You see the results of this in public reaction to stuff like strikes. "I pay my taxes, so why should I suffer when train drivers strike? Their pay and working conditions are their problem" etc. The consumer, in this case the passenger, doesn't realise that they are intrinsically linked to the train driver through our economic system. Because they view themselves as a totally atomised individual consumer, they can't sympathise or show solidarity with the conditions of the worker.

So it terms of video games, it's a bit more complex, but it boils down to the same thing- an unwillingness to critically engage with the damage that publishers and platform holders cause via their relentless drive for profit and the super exploitation of workers. Under this system, both the artists (the devs) and the audience (us) suffer equally, hence we're one and the same, and the dev vs. consumer binary is totally false.

 

[Bronetta]

The majority of threads outside of OTs devolve into toxic sludgefests. Either posts will go at companies/games/issues with hyperbolic negativity or some posters will turn on each other and start throwing insults in heated arguments in an attempt to appear superior to the other person.

Most of the time these threads are closed by Modbot with a "you all should be ashamed" or "shutting this dumpster fire down" messages. I wish mods would be more active in stepping in before the posters or conversation is starting to get out of control. I know the mods cant be everywhere at once and try their best but making their presence known during heated moments is crucial.

 

[Commanche Raisin Toast]

Perspective is a weird thing. All I remember is upfront skepticism about the game ending up like the trailer, and then when they split from the Sony deal a lot of people shitting in Sony. I kind of lost interest at that point but it's sad to hear so many people took things that far as to call his whole company a scam.

 

[Piers]

If you go looking for criticism about something you made, especially from people who don't expect you to read their posts, you're going to get some unfiltered opinions. If you can't handle that, it's probably best to have someone else go through that stuff and make a summary for you.

Yup. GAF is also full of jaded people. It's not as cathartic to talk about what's good as it to sulk over what's bad.
I must get back to sulking over Wind Waker.

 

[The Dude]

The majority of threads outside of OTs devolve into toxic sludgefests. Either posts will go at companies/games/issues with hyperbolic negativity or some posters will turn on each other and start throwing insults in heated arguments in an attempt to appear superior to the other person.

Most of the time these threads are closed by Modbot with a "you all should be ashamed" or "shutting this dumpster fire down" messages. I wish mods would be more active in stepping in before the posters or conversation is starting to get out of control. I know the mods cant be everywhere at once and try their best but making their presence known during heated moments is crucial.

What I've noticed tho is mods will close decent conversation type threads but keep ones like you've mentioned open. It seems backwards.

 

[Alienous]

We can't make you be nice.

For the various folks who'd like to blame moderation for allowing people to act cruelly, that's something you should probably know. More to the point, you don't want us to try and make you be nice, because we have blunt tools, and the way we'd do it is tighten up on banning negative, hostile comments.

You don't want us to do that, because you're guilty of it. Go look in your reading history right now. If you can't find a single comment that someone might think was nasty or unpleasant, I will be deeply surprised. That means the rest of you would be banned.

No rule we can put up, no pogrom of bans, no effort on our part can make you change the way you talk to other people. I've spent a lot of time on OT trying to convince people not to be assholes directly to each other, with little success, so the idea that we're going to stop people from being assholes about someone who isn't here or made promises they didn't keep, is a fantasy.

The only person that can make you behave better, make you remember that there are people on the other side of the keyboard, is you. And you can't make anyone else behave better, either. Each of us can only be responsible for ourselves.

It's easy to blame "GAF" as if the software and hardware were making the comments. It's easy to blame moderation, although it's you guys who create all the content, not us. It's less easy to take a look at your own posting and make changes. But if you want GAF to be a nicer place, that's literally your only option, because GAF is a collective of thousands of different voices, and those voices create the chorus that people perceive.

So keep throwing stones -- at developers, at moderators, at your fellow posters -- but you're part of the problem, and rather than deal with your part in the problem, you're engaging in negativity about other posters, the forum, and its staff. Try, instead, treating fellow posters, developers, and staff as if they were people. Consider that your funny, cruel joke is less funny and more cruel, and maybe don't post it. Moderate your language and instead of calling people scam artists, or shoving your head up your ass in self-righteousness about your consumer rights, consider that the company you're railing against is really just people trying to make something neat and failing rather than a conspiracy to rob you and make you play bad games.

This should be stickied somewhere.

 

[Instro]

The majority of threads outside of OTs devolve into toxic sludgefests. Either posts will go at companies/games/issues with hyperbolic negativity or some posters will turn on each other and start throwing insults in heated arguments in an attempt to appear superior to the other person.

Most of the time these threads are closed by Modbot with a "you all should be ashamed" or "shutting this dumpster fire down" messages. I wish mods would be more active in stepping in before the posters or conversation is starting to get out of control. I know the mods cant be everywhere at once and try their best but making their presence known during heated moments is crucial.

I don't think that's true. Most threads on here go reasonably well. The ones that tend to go bad, often started with a bad OP. Even then I often see a mod step in with a "knock it off" type post unless the thread has minimal redeeming value.

 

[Alucrid]

What I've noticed tho is mods will close decent conversation type threads but keep ones like you've mentioned open. It seems backwards.

like what?

 

[Makonero]

I refuse to back down on my comments regarding the $10 nintendo tax that the rime publishers are levying against Switch owners

GAF may be harsh and overly negative sometimes, but if you look for constructive criticism, you'll find it. My political views have completely changed during my time here, in many ways because some posters were logical, constructive and helpful in terms of helping me see my hypocrisies and flawed understandings. GAF, if anything, has made me more empathic. I definitely can empathize with developers, but my empathy also goes out to the consumers who spend money on games.

Take the good with the bad and don't let it overwhelm you. That's life.

 

[afternoon delight]

While I dislike and like certain portions of GAF as well, I do not malign it as a whole.

That being said words are wind, sticks and stones and all that. Life tells you you suck, tell life it sucks for making you suck.

 

[Aselith]

How will ModBot take this?

Letthemfight.gif

We can't make you be nice.

For the various folks who'd like to blame moderation for allowing people to act cruelly, that's something you should probably know. More to the point, you don't want us to try and make you be nice, because we have blunt tools, and the way we'd do it is tighten up on banning negative, hostile comments.

You don't want us to do that, because you're guilty of it. Go look in your reading history right now. If you can't find a single comment that someone might think was nasty or unpleasant, I will be deeply surprised. That means the rest of you would be banned.

No rule we can put up, no pogrom of bans, no effort on our part can make you change the way you talk to other people. I've spent a lot of time on OT trying to convince people not to be assholes directly to each other, with little success, so the idea that we're going to stop people from being assholes about someone who isn't here or made promises they didn't keep, is a fantasy.

The only person that can make you behave better, make you remember that there are people on the other side of the keyboard, is you. And you can't make anyone else behave better, either. Each of us can only be responsible for ourselves.

It's easy to blame "GAF" as if the software and hardware were making the comments. It's easy to blame moderation, although it's you guys who create all the content, not us. It's less easy to take a look at your own posting and make changes. But if you want GAF to be a nicer place, that's literally your only option, because GAF is a collective of thousands of different voices, and those voices create the chorus that people perceive.

So keep throwing stones -- at developers, at moderators, at your fellow posters -- but you're part of the problem, and rather than deal with your part in the problem, you're engaging in negativity about other posters, the forum, and its staff. Try, instead, treating fellow posters, developers, and staff as if they were people. Consider that your funny, cruel joke is less funny and more cruel, and maybe don't post it. Moderate your language and instead of calling people scam artists, or shoving your head up your ass in self-righteousness about your consumer rights, consider that the company you're railing against is really just people trying to make something neat and failing rather than a conspiracy to rob you and make you play bad games.

*Except NMS

Spoiler

Just jokes!

 

[Tinfoilhatsron]

Man, those are some contrasting mod posts.

I guess everyone should stop being so defensive? Is that the lesson here upon reopening this? Good enough for me.