Support NeoGAF

[IHaveIce]

It's not worth it because your post was pretty lame. There are too many creepy stalkers, hackers, GGers, harassers, etc., that want to go after the mods that ban them, or those that are seen as SJWs, female mods, etc. ModBot is used for good reason.

Cool that you decide why my post was not worth it anymore after I decided it already. Good job, glad you are on here

 

[Zizbuka]

I think the gaming side of GAF is a great example of everything that's wrong with the internet. There's definitely a mob mentality here a lot of times. I wonder how many of the people posting about games have actually played the game.

 

[veloxStrix]

-NeoGAF is actively moderated and we don't very much tolerate personal attacks, hate speech, and unsubstantiated claims from most of the users.

Is probably more accurate lately. But I generally agree with what EvilLore is saying even if I might not agree with the tone.

 

[soultron]

Let's just see if the game is good next month. I'm pretty into the little bits and pieces I've seen thus far.

 

[Lord of Castamere]

Wow this thread is sure something.

Criticism is criticism. If you can't take it don't read it. If it's bluntly wrong, respond? Idk. I wasn't really following this game. Not a huge fan of puzzle games. Hopefully it's a good real game.

Should have joined and started making bets, with the forum, about the quality of his game. Or in another reference, make a paragraph long rebuttal as an unverified junor and almost immediately get outed and banned. Could have been entertaining. More entertainment than I'm probably going to get from Rime. This thread's a good start though.

 

[Nabbis]

Working on a personal project where you have genuine desire to make it enjoyable only to have some people shit on it will make you feel very bad, i get it. Obviously there's some difference in temperaments between people but that's the general result. The thing is though, this will always happen both for what could be argued as justified and petty reasons. There is no large community that will only make constructive feedback and look into the morality of how to voice that feedback. People are indeed shitty like that and as much as i hate the cop-out answer "human nature" this is one of the moments where i feel it's appropriate. People working for a project that is supposed to have a large pool of clients need to be prepared for it, it's not fair but this behavior will never change.

 

[besada]

We can't make you be nice.

For the various folks who'd like to blame moderation for allowing people to act cruelly, that's something you should probably know. More to the point, you don't want us to try and make you be nice, because we have blunt tools, and the way we'd do it is tighten up on banning negative, hostile comments.

You don't want us to do that, because you're guilty of it. Go look in your reading history right now. If you can't find a single comment that someone might think was nasty or unpleasant, I will be deeply surprised. That means the rest of you would be banned.

No rule we can put up, no pogrom of bans, no effort on our part can make you change the way you talk to other people. I've spent a lot of time on OT trying to convince people not to be assholes directly to each other, with little success, so the idea that we're going to stop people from being assholes about someone who isn't here or made promises they didn't keep, is a fantasy.

The only person that can make you behave better, make you remember that there are people on the other side of the keyboard, is you. And you can't make anyone else behave better, either. Each of us can only be responsible for ourselves.

It's easy to blame "GAF" as if the software and hardware were making the comments. It's easy to blame moderation, although it's you guys who create all the content, not us. It's less easy to take a look at your own posting and make changes. But if you want GAF to be a nicer place, that's literally your only option, because GAF is a collective of thousands of different voices, and those voices create the chorus that people perceive.

So keep throwing stones -- at developers, at moderators, at your fellow posters -- but you're part of the problem, and rather than deal with your part in the problem, you're engaging in negativity about other posters, the forum, and its staff. Try, instead, treating fellow posters, developers, and staff as if they were people. Consider that your funny, cruel joke is less funny and more cruel, and maybe don't post it. Moderate your language and instead of calling people scam artists, or shoving your head up your ass in self-righteousness about your consumer rights, consider that the company you're railing against is really just people trying to make something neat and failing rather than a conspiracy to rob you and make you play bad games.

 

[shem935]

But we're usually so nice

Nope.


Not even close.

 

[ultrazilla]

Game looks good.

You have to be able to take praise and scorn. Positive and negative. Criticisms and kudos.

I wouldn't use NeoGAF as an overall of how the general gaming public thinks/listens/believes, etc. IMHO, that was his biggest mistake. Sure, we're a huge online presence but *NEVER* gauge your game based on what we think here as a whole. Get feedback, listen, study but don't take everything here as gospel, personal or end all, be all of video games. I do think for the most part, this site is just passionate about the video game genre and emotions can run raw. Try not to get caught up in it.

Day 1 purchase for me on Switch!

 

[Not]

Is the problem here coming from the idea that he had to make it public what his personal reaction to the comments were?

Does that set off "he just wants attention" alarms in some people or what?

 

[Fisty]

So what's the "normal" limit before the guy should start feeling like a baby? One day?

Or he could, I don't know, recognize no one knows the full scoop but him.

Maybe he was crying because all the shit was true.

 

[Louis Cyphre]

The people at Microsoft must be made of Adamantium.

 

[7roject28]

Which thread was so terrible that he needed to cry for two days?

I remember they tweeted that they laughed about the GAF threads

They probably laughed so hard they cried is what he meant.

 

[Ahasverus]

We can't make you be nice.

For the various folks who'd like to blame moderation for allowing people to act cruelly, that's something you should probably know. More to the point, you don't want us to try and make you be nice, because we have blunt tools, and the way we'd do it is tighten up on banning negative, hostile comments.

You don't want us to do that, because you're guilty of it. Go look in your reading history right now. If you can't find a single comment that someone might think was nasty or unpleasant, I will be deeply surprised. That means the rest of you would be banned.

No rule we can put up, no pogrom of bans, no effort on our part can make you change the way you talk to other people. I've spent a lot of time on OT trying to convince people not to be assholes directly to each other, with little success, so the idea that we're going to stop people from being assholes about someone who isn't here or made promises they didn't keep, is a fantasy.

The only person that can make you behave better, make you remember that there are people on the other side of the keyboard, is you. And you can't make anyone else behave better, either. Each of us can only be responsible for ourselves.

It's easy to blame "GAF" as if the software and hardware were making the comments. It's easy to blame moderation, although it's you guys who create all the content, not us. It's less easy to take a look at your own posting and make changes. But if you want GAF to be a nicer place, that's literally your only option, because GAF is a collective of thousands of different voices, and those voices create the chorus that people perceive.

So keep throwing stones -- at developers, at moderators, at your fellow posters -- but you're part of the problem, and rather than deal with your part in the problem, you're engaging in negativity about other posters, the forum, and its staff. Try, instead, treating fellow posters, developers, and staff as if they were people. Consider that your funny, cruel joke is less funny and more cruel, and maybe don't post it. Moderate your language and instead of calling people scam artists, or shoving your head up your ass in self-righteousness about your consumer rights, consider that the company you're railing against is really just people trying to make something neat and failing rather than a conspiracy to rob you and make you play bad games.

Nothing else needs to be said really.

 

[Primus]

We can't make you be nice.

For the various folks who'd like to blame moderation for allowing people to act cruelly, that's something you should probably know. More to the point, you don't want us to try and make you be nice, because we have blunt tools, and the way we'd do it is tighten up on banning negative, hostile comments.

You don't want us to do that, because you're guilty of it. Go look in your reading history right now. If you can't find a single comment that someone might think was nasty or unpleasant, I will be deeply surprised. That means the rest of you would be banned.

No rule we can put up, no pogrom of bans, no effort on our part can make you change the way you talk to other people. I've spent a lot of time on OT trying to convince people not to be assholes directly to each other, with little success, so the idea that we're going to stop people from being assholes about someone who isn't here or made promises they didn't keep, is a fantasy.

The only person that can make you behave better, make you remember that there are people on the other side of the keyboard, is you. And you can't make anyone else behave better, either. Each of us can only be responsible for ourselves.

It's easy to blame "GAF" as if the software and hardware were making the comments. It's easy to blame moderation, although it's you guys who create all the content, not us. It's less easy to take a look at your own posting and make changes. But if you want GAF to be a nicer place, that's literally your only option, because GAF is a collective of thousands of different voices, and those voices create the chorus that people perceive.

So keep throwing stones -- at developers, at moderators, at your fellow posters -- but you're part of the problem, and rather than deal with your part in the problem, you're engaging in negativity about other posters, the forum, and its staff. Try, instead, treating fellow posters, developers, and staff as if they were people. Consider that your funny, cruel joke is less funny and more cruel, and maybe don't post it. Moderate your language and instead of calling people scam artists, or shoving your head up your ass in self-righteousness about your consumer rights, consider that the company you're railing against is really just people trying to make something neat and failing rather than a conspiracy to rob you and make you play bad games.

Thank you for this.

 

[valeo]

The people at Microsoft must be made of Adamantium.

It's different if you work for a large company; you can blame all of the ills on upper management.

 

[facetheslayer92]

I mean I'm not for throwing rocks at developers, especially indie developers, but he should've expected a fair amount of backlash for this game's troubled development. Anyway, I'm actually really looking forward to this game, it looks like a decent Ico clone.

 

[The Sum of Zero]

We can't make you be nice.

For the various folks who'd like to blame moderation for allowing people to act cruelly, that's something you should probably know. More to the point, you don't want us to try and make you be nice, because we have blunt tools, and the way we'd do it is tighten up on banning negative, hostile comments.

You don't want us to do that, because you're guilty of it. Go look in your reading history right now. If you can't find a single comment that someone might think was nasty or unpleasant, I will be deeply surprised. That means the rest of you would be banned.

No rule we can put up, no pogrom of bans, no effort on our part can make you change the way you talk to other people. I've spent a lot of time on OT trying to convince people not to be assholes directly to each other, with little success, so the idea that we're going to stop people from being assholes about someone who isn't here or made promises they didn't keep, is a fantasy.

The only person that can make you behave better, make you remember that there are people on the other side of the keyboard, is you. And you can't make anyone else behave better, either. Each of us can only be responsible for ourselves.

It's easy to blame "GAF" as if the software and hardware were making the comments. It's easy to blame moderation, although it's you guys who create all the content, not us. It's less easy to take a look at your own posting and make changes. But if you want GAF to be a nicer place, that's literally your only option, because GAF is a collective of thousands of different voices, and those voices create the chorus that people perceive.

So keep throwing stones -- at developers, at moderators, at your fellow posters -- but you're part of the problem, and rather than deal with your part in the problem, you're engaging in negativity about other posters, the forum, and its staff. Try, instead, treating fellow posters, developers, and staff as if they were people. Consider that your funny, cruel joke is less funny and more cruel, and maybe don't post it. Moderate your language and instead of calling people scam artists, or shoving your head up your ass in self-righteousness about your consumer rights, consider that the company you're railing against is really just people trying to make something neat and failing rather than a conspiracy to rob you and make you play bad games.

+1

 

[Wulfram]

Wait, wait, hold on a sec, modbot. Can someone help out our friend?


General commentary:

-Should probably be talking about your two whole day cry with your therapist and not Edge Magazine. Also sounds like it would be pretty cathartic in any case. Did you emerge from your cocoon of tears a brave new boy new ready to face your first actual challenges in life? I bet you did! You're quite welcome.

-NeoGAF is actively moderated and we don't very much tolerate personal attacks

Ooookaay?

I'm feeling there's a bit of a contradiction here.

 

[chicagocubsfan]

Let's hope the game is good or he might not want to check Metacritic, reviewers are pretty harsh.

 

[Kadin]

You don't want us to do that, because you're guilty of it. Go look in your reading history right now. If you can't find a single comment that someone might think was nasty or unpleasant, I will be deeply surprised.

I make a very concerted effort to try and make this a reality when I'm posting. There were many times in the past on other sites where I would purposely troll people just to get my kicks but coming to GAF really made me assess my posting behavior. I'm sure there is stuff in my history looking back that I might regret but I have to honestly say that I do try to be open-minded and very rarely come across hostile (in my mind).

 

[Allnamestakenlol]

We can't make you be nice.

For the various folks who'd like to blame moderation for allowing people to act cruelly, that's something you should probably know. More to the point, you don't want us to try and make you be nice, because we have blunt tools, and the way we'd do it is tighten up on banning negative, hostile comments.

You don't want us to do that, because you're guilty of it. Go look in your reading history right now. If you can't find a single comment that someone might think was nasty or unpleasant, I will be deeply surprised. That means the rest of you would be banned.

No rule we can put up, no pogrom of bans, no effort on our part can make you change the way you talk to other people. I've spent a lot of time on OT trying to convince people not to be assholes directly to each other, with little success, so the idea that we're going to stop people from being assholes about someone who isn't here or made promises they didn't keep, is a fantasy.

The only person that can make you behave better, make you remember that there are people on the other side of the keyboard, is you. And you can't make anyone else behave better, either. Each of us can only be responsible for ourselves.

It's easy to blame "GAF" as if the software and hardware were making the comments. It's easy to blame moderation, although it's you guys who create all the content, not us. It's less easy to take a look at your own posting and make changes. But if you want GAF to be a nicer place, that's literally your only option, because GAF is a collective of thousands of different voices, and those voices create the chorus that people perceive.

So keep throwing stones -- at developers, at moderators, at your fellow posters -- but you're part of the problem, and rather than deal with your part in the problem, you're engaging in negativity about other posters, the forum, and its staff. Try, instead, treating fellow posters, developers, and staff as if they were people. Consider that your funny, cruel joke is less funny and more cruel, and maybe don't post it. Moderate your language and instead of calling people scam artists, or shoving your head up your ass in self-righteousness about your consumer rights, consider that the company you're railing against is really just people trying to make something neat and failing rather than a conspiracy to rob you and make you play bad games.

Fantastic post. Thank you.

 

[Septic360]

 

[Instro]

Cool that you decide why my post was not worth it anymore after I decided it already. Good job, glad you are on here

I mean it's pretty amusing to accuse people of hiding or being cowardly, and then proceed to hide the comment with an edit. Good stuff.

 

[BiggNife]

We can't make you be nice.

For the various folks who'd like to blame moderation for allowing people to act cruelly, that's something you should probably know. More to the point, you don't want us to try and make you be nice, because we have blunt tools, and the way we'd do it is tighten up on banning negative, hostile comments.

You don't want us to do that, because you're guilty of it. Go look in your reading history right now. If you can't find a single comment that someone might think was nasty or unpleasant, I will be deeply surprised. That means the rest of you would be banned.

No rule we can put up, no pogrom of bans, no effort on our part can make you change the way you talk to other people. I've spent a lot of time on OT trying to convince people not to be assholes directly to each other, with little success, so the idea that we're going to stop people from being assholes about someone who isn't here or made promises they didn't keep, is a fantasy.

The only person that can make you behave better, make you remember that there are people on the other side of the keyboard, is you. And you can't make anyone else behave better, either. Each of us can only be responsible for ourselves.

It's easy to blame "GAF" as if the software and hardware were making the comments. It's easy to blame moderation, although it's you guys who create all the content, not us. It's less easy to take a look at your own posting and make changes. But if you want GAF to be a nicer place, that's literally your only option, because GAF is a collective of thousands of different voices, and those voices create the chorus that people perceive.

So keep throwing stones -- at developers, at moderators, at your fellow posters -- but you're part of the problem, and rather than deal with your part in the problem, you're engaging in negativity about other posters, the forum, and its staff. Try, instead, treating fellow posters, developers, and staff as if they were people. Consider that your funny, cruel joke is less funny and more cruel, and maybe don't post it. Moderate your language and instead of calling people scam artists, or shoving your head up your ass in self-righteousness about your consumer rights, consider that the company you're railing against is really just people trying to make something neat and failing rather than a conspiracy to rob you and make you play bad games.

Thank you for saying this.

 

[Council Pop]

I think this is one of the friendliest forums I've ever posted on- it's really, really well moderated, and the userbase is diverse enough that you don't get the groupthink thing that you see in the majority of online communities (especially on parts of Twitter). Even if there is a majority opinion, there are always enough dissenting voices that they don't get silenced (unless someone is being sexist/homophobic etc, in which case everyone is quick to call them out, which is great).

But also I kinda think that there is real vitriol directed at people outside of the board itself sometimes, and it's often framed by this kinda right-wing "but muh consumer rights" sort of thing, which can come across as very entitled and individualist sometimes. 'Consumer rights' has become a buzz word for basically everything anyone doesn't like, and I think that NeoGAF is better than just being conspiracy theorists complaining about how every game is a scam (like No Man's Sky. That's not a scam- it's just a very mediocre game by an inexperienced dev who got in too deep).

It's not a battle with gamers vs. devs, and our 'consumer rights' come first and sod the dev's working conditions, personal lives, or right to make mistakes. When it comes to games, I don't see myself as a consumer- I'm a participant, and I support devs, especially the majority who are small teams struggling to make great games, for years of their lives. The relationship between gamer and developer is two way, and organic, and we need to see ourselves as part of a gaming ecosystem, rather than cynical, isolated consumers.

Also, we need to direct much more of our ire at publishers and the exploitative nature of the games industry as a whole. Not just in "oh this game is too expensive", but more like "hey Platform Holder, you're treating this dev like shit and messing them around with this exclusivity deal", "hey Publisher, you're making this developer crunch for six months so they never see their families and are getting physically ill", and "hey Media Conglomerate, you're taking specific action to prevent anyone in the games industry from forming a Union and improving their working conditions."

More understanding, less right-wing individualism, and more solidarity with devs, particularly smaller developers, would make this forum a better place, in my opinion.

 

[Fisty]

Let's hope the game is good or he might not want to check Metacritic, reviewers are pretty harsh.

Jim Sterling will put this guy in the sanitarium if GAF can do that to him

 

[soultron]

I make a very concerted effort to try and make this a reality when I'm posting. There were many times in the past on other sites where I would purposely troll people just to get my kicks but coming to GAF really made me assess my posting behavior. I'm sure there is stuff in my history looking back that I might regret but I have to honestly say that I do try to be open-minded and very rarely come across hostile (in my mind).

Growing up will also make you assess your posting behaviour. I'm dead serious. I'm not on here to impress 15 year olds with sick burns anymore. (That was me over 10 years ago.)

 

[IHaveIce]

I mean it's pretty amusing to accuse people of hiding or being cowardly, and then proceed to hide the comment with an edit. Good stuff.

Do you understand what not worth it means? Shoot me an PM or just stop it, jeez kid.
It doesn't belong in this thread period.
I hid not my comment because I was afraid, since mods can read the unedited posts anyway, it just didn't belong in the thread, if you have a problem with that, again write me an PM.

 

[shem935]

Is the problem here coming from the idea that he had to make it public what his personal reaction to the comments were?

Does that set off "he just wants attention" alarms in some people or what?

Or he could, I don't know, recognize no one knows the full scoop but him.

Maybe he was crying because all the shit was true.

Or maybe he had such a reaction because a community he loved and identified with talked such shit about him. Maybe that undermined his whole reason for being a game developer in the first place? To make games for people to play and make them happy? Calling him an attention whore for having his worldview shattered by the community he wanted to please seems to be part of the problem.

And sure it's just comments at the end of the day but there aren't ever lessons learned from talking bad about developers. There isn't any introspection. Worldviews don't change. Posters take their nasty attitudes forward under the assumption that their words don't have an audience beyond the poster below them in the thread.

 

[Stahsky]

I don't post a whole bunch here anymore as I generally hate everyone, but the site itself is fine. People tend to think that because some rude shitstain wasn't banned for saying he likes orange dictators, or some glue sniffing basement dweller doesn't like zelda, that somehow means the entirety of the forums is of the same mindset.

this place is real big guys. i can name like 100 people here that i can't stand, but i just ignore them because i'm a grown ass adult. so there's something to be said about a team of people making a game that will no doubt be seen many many hundreds, if not thousands of people and collectively start crying.

maybe you oughta grow up, rime guys.

 

[Instro]

Do you understand what not worth it means? Shoot me an PM or just stop it, jeez kid.
It doesn't belong in this thread period.
I hid not my comment because I was afraid, since mods can read the unedited posts anyway, it just didn't belong in the thread, if you have a problem with that, again write me an PM.

Nope you're right it's not even on topic.

 

[Kadin]

Growing up will also make you assess your posting behaviour. I'm dead serious. I'm not on here to impress 15 year olds with sick burns anymore. (That was me over 10 years ago.)

Yeah that's very true for sure. I think the main reason I did change the way I post was because I knew coming in there was the potential to get banned. Always heard that GAF was a very strictly moderated site and at first I was honestly a tad scared but I quickly realized if I was just kind in my responses and didn't lash out in a quick rage, it wouldn't be too hard to stick around a while.

I've had more great discussions here with thoughtful responses from people than any of the other sites I would frequent. Sure it can be chaotic at times and that's when I just sit back and watch. But when there's a nice topic on hand, I find no better place (still) to be a part of it.

 

[Not]

...Consider that the company you're railing against is really just people trying to make something neat and failing rather than a conspiracy to rob you and make you play bad games.

I think this is the phenomenon I couldn't put my finger on that always angered me about Gaming side. I very readily empathize with people who have openly emotional reactions to being rejected, excluded, or abused.

I understand that people are enthusiastic about video games, and that said games might even supply a form of meaning and pleasure to people's lives that they haven't been able to acquire elsewhere, but we have to remember that humans are more important. Sentient beings should be treated with empathy rather than constant mistrust.

Humans, for everything else they're capable of, sometimes put their heart and soul into something that not many other people enjoy. It's not your fault if you have a negative reaction to someone's work, but maybe assume that person wasn't trying to attack you emotionally or trick you into relinquishing your free time.

And also, sometimes people just need someone to be on their side and/or validate them-- even just one person-- before they can even get themselves to a state where they can easily accept and apply criticism. That's not true for everyone, granted, but it's certainly true for me as a person.

 

[QisTopTier]

I mean drive by shit post happen all the time from people that don't care about something and just want to get their 2 cents in they feel like they deserve and well that's fine as long as it isn't completely absurd and destroys a thread.

Spoiler

I'm guilty of this, being pretty much home alone stuck in my room 24/7 with my body slowly shutting down the last 4 years gets to me and I vent in stupid ass ways at times

People trying to take anything from little quick one liners from posters as something serious and not a grain of salt need to step back and look deeper in those very threads where there typically is a discussion happening and not give as much weight to drive bys vs say two forum members having a solid discussion over two view points or opinions. That happens very often here and those are the things most people come away from the site with high regards towards it.

 

[Salaadin]

We can't make you be nice.

For the various folks who'd like to blame moderation for allowing people to act cruelly, that's something you should probably know. More to the point, you don't want us to try and make you be nice, because we have blunt tools, and the way we'd do it is tighten up on banning negative, hostile comments.

You don't want us to do that, because you're guilty of it. Go look in your reading history right now. If you can't find a single comment that someone might think was nasty or unpleasant, I will be deeply surprised. That means the rest of you would be banned.

No rule we can put up, no pogrom of bans, no effort on our part can make you change the way you talk to other people. I've spent a lot of time on OT trying to convince people not to be assholes directly to each other, with little success, so the idea that we're going to stop people from being assholes about someone who isn't here or made promises they didn't keep, is a fantasy.

The only person that can make you behave better, make you remember that there are people on the other side of the keyboard, is you. And you can't make anyone else behave better, either. Each of us can only be responsible for ourselves.

It's easy to blame "GAF" as if the software and hardware were making the comments. It's easy to blame moderation, although it's you guys who create all the content, not us. It's less easy to take a look at your own posting and make changes. But if you want GAF to be a nicer place, that's literally your only option, because GAF is a collective of thousands of different voices, and those voices create the chorus that people perceive.

So keep throwing stones -- at developers, at moderators, at your fellow posters -- but you're part of the problem, and rather than deal with your part in the problem, you're engaging in negativity about other posters, the forum, and its staff. Try, instead, treating fellow posters, developers, and staff as if they were people. Consider that your funny, cruel joke is less funny and more cruel, and maybe don't post it. Moderate your language and instead of calling people scam artists, or shoving your head up your ass in self-righteousness about your consumer rights, consider that the company you're railing against is really just people trying to make something neat and failing rather than a conspiracy to rob you and make you play bad games.

Wow. So true.
I'm going to try to be better.

 

[mrlion]

A leader has to take it all in otherwise feelings will interfere with work. If he can't handle the negativity then he's in the wrong industry.

Why do you think people like Sean Murray or Peter Molyneaux exist? Because they don't give a flying damn what you think about their games.

 

[PtM]

We can't make you be nice.

For the various folks who'd like to blame moderation for allowing people to act cruelly, that's something you should probably know. More to the point, you don't want us to try and make you be nice, because we have blunt tools, and the way we'd do it is tighten up on banning negative, hostile comments.

You don't want us to do that, because you're guilty of it. Go look in your reading history right now. If you can't find a single comment that someone might think was nasty or unpleasant, I will be deeply surprised. That means the rest of you would be banned.

No rule we can put up, no pogrom of bans, no effort on our part can make you change the way you talk to other people. I've spent a lot of time on OT trying to convince people not to be assholes directly to each other, with little success, so the idea that we're going to stop people from being assholes about someone who isn't here or made promises they didn't keep, is a fantasy.

The only person that can make you behave better, make you remember that there are people on the other side of the keyboard, is you. And you can't make anyone else behave better, either. Each of us can only be responsible for ourselves.

It's easy to blame "GAF" as if the software and hardware were making the comments. It's easy to blame moderation, although it's you guys who create all the content, not us. It's less easy to take a look at your own posting and make changes. But if you want GAF to be a nicer place, that's literally your only option, because GAF is a collective of thousands of different voices, and those voices create the chorus that people perceive.

So keep throwing stones -- at developers, at moderators, at your fellow posters -- but you're part of the problem, and rather than deal with your part in the problem, you're engaging in negativity about other posters, the forum, and its staff. Try, instead, treating fellow posters, developers, and staff as if they were people. Consider that your funny, cruel joke is less funny and more cruel, and maybe don't post it. Moderate your language and instead of calling people scam artists, or shoving your head up your ass in self-righteousness about your consumer rights, consider that the company you're railing against is really just people trying to make something neat and failing rather than a conspiracy to rob you and make you play bad games.

Um. I'll be right back.


I too suspect the crying was more about tone than anything else.

 

[MKIL65]

So keep throwing stones -- at developers, at moderators, at your fellow posters -- but you're part of the problem, and rather than deal with your part in the problem, you're engaging in negativity about other posters, the forum, and its staff. Try, instead, treating fellow posters, developers, and staff as if they were people. Consider that your funny, cruel joke is less funny and more cruel, and maybe don't post it. Moderate your language and instead of calling people scam artists, or shoving your head up your ass in self-righteousness about your consumer rights, consider that the company you're railing against is really just people trying to make something neat and failing rather than a conspiracy to rob you and make you play bad games.

Truth bomb, right here!

 

[Fisty]

A leader has to take it all in otherwise feelings will interfere with work. If he can't handle the negativity then he's in the wrong industry.

Why do you think people like Sean Murray or Peter Molyneaux exist? Because they don't give a flying damn what you think about their games.

I would imagine the Kleen-ex bill was pretty steep when Deadlight came out

 

[Maxim726X]

We can't make you be nice.

For the various folks who'd like to blame moderation for allowing people to act cruelly, that's something you should probably know. More to the point, you don't want us to try and make you be nice, because we have blunt tools, and the way we'd do it is tighten up on banning negative, hostile comments.

You don't want us to do that, because you're guilty of it. Go look in your reading history right now. If you can't find a single comment that someone might think was nasty or unpleasant, I will be deeply surprised. That means the rest of you would be banned.

No rule we can put up, no pogrom of bans, no effort on our part can make you change the way you talk to other people. I've spent a lot of time on OT trying to convince people not to be assholes directly to each other, with little success, so the idea that we're going to stop people from being assholes about someone who isn't here or made promises they didn't keep, is a fantasy.

The only person that can make you behave better, make you remember that there are people on the other side of the keyboard, is you. And you can't make anyone else behave better, either. Each of us can only be responsible for ourselves.

It's easy to blame "GAF" as if the software and hardware were making the comments. It's easy to blame moderation, although it's you guys who create all the content, not us. It's less easy to take a look at your own posting and make changes. But if you want GAF to be a nicer place, that's literally your only option, because GAF is a collective of thousands of different voices, and those voices create the chorus that people perceive.

So keep throwing stones -- at developers, at moderators, at your fellow posters -- but you're part of the problem, and rather than deal with your part in the problem, you're engaging in negativity about other posters, the forum, and its staff. Try, instead, treating fellow posters, developers, and staff as if they were people. Consider that your funny, cruel joke is less funny and more cruel, and maybe don't post it. Moderate your language and instead of calling people scam artists, or shoving your head up your ass in self-righteousness about your consumer rights, consider that the company you're railing against is really just people trying to make something neat and failing rather than a conspiracy to rob you and make you play bad games.

I find the way that some posters personally bash the work ethic of developers deeply disturbing, and this paragraph addresses it perfectly.

Ultimately, these are people. People that likely work a lot harder than most of us ever will... Criticism of a product is one thing, personal attacks regarding work ethic is another. That's low-hanging fruit, and as a whole the community should do their best to make sure that posters who partake in this bullshit are reminded that we wouldn't be here were it not for people developing games, and to perhaps take their foot off the gas a little.

 

[Coma Ecliptic]

We can't make you be nice.

For the various folks who'd like to blame moderation for allowing people to act cruelly, that's something you should probably know. More to the point, you don't want us to try and make you be nice, because we have blunt tools, and the way we'd do it is tighten up on banning negative, hostile comments.

You don't want us to do that, because you're guilty of it. Go look in your reading history right now. If you can't find a single comment that someone might think was nasty or unpleasant, I will be deeply surprised. That means the rest of you would be banned.

No rule we can put up, no pogrom of bans, no effort on our part can make you change the way you talk to other people. I've spent a lot of time on OT trying to convince people not to be assholes directly to each other, with little success, so the idea that we're going to stop people from being assholes about someone who isn't here or made promises they didn't keep, is a fantasy.

The only person that can make you behave better, make you remember that there are people on the other side of the keyboard, is you. And you can't make anyone else behave better, either. Each of us can only be responsible for ourselves.

It's easy to blame "GAF" as if the software and hardware were making the comments. It's easy to blame moderation, although it's you guys who create all the content, not us. It's less easy to take a look at your own posting and make changes. But if you want GAF to be a nicer place, that's literally your only option, because GAF is a collective of thousands of different voices, and those voices create the chorus that people perceive.

So keep throwing stones -- at developers, at moderators, at your fellow posters -- but you're part of the problem, and rather than deal with your part in the problem, you're engaging in negativity about other posters, the forum, and its staff. Try, instead, treating fellow posters, developers, and staff as if they were people. Consider that your funny, cruel joke is less funny and more cruel, and maybe don't post it. Moderate your language and instead of calling people scam artists, or shoving your head up your ass in self-righteousness about your consumer rights, consider that the company you're railing against is really just people trying to make something neat and failing rather than a conspiracy to rob you and make you play bad games.

This a great post, honestly should be stickied somewhere. It's also great commentary on how all Discussion Boards should work, Discussions. Just because someone disagrees with you does not make them a bully or mean they're attacking you personally.

I do agree that there tend to be a lot of snap reactions to things, I've done it and I know everyone else has. Now before I post I just try to think about how my message will be read, how will it contribute to the conversation, and then I still wonder if I should post it.

Last thing I wanted to add, when someone criticized something I worked on or how I was playing hockey etc. It motivated me to be better. Take the criticism, ignore the useless "scam artist" comments, and use it as fuel. You say my game, play style, etc, sucks? I'll show you just how good it can and will be.

You'll never be better being coddled throughout life and you shouldn't want to be coddled.

PS I don't believe you cried for 2 days. My dad died in front of me in 2005 suddenly from massive heart failure, I cried for 2 days and rightly so. If you're crying for 2 days from internet criticism you need to see a therapist.

 

[goldenpp72]

Neogaf is basically a site that requires some constructive thought to be placed (or something funny). A site like reddit can just have a cesspool of slurs and rage post where as here, the hate or discussion must usually be formatted in a way that makes some sense, else the user is taken through the cleaners.

It's not perfect, but I enjoy that the site requires perhaps a higher quality posting style, else you be met with ridicule and shame regardless of moderators.

 

[Colonel Mustard]

I for one am excited about Rime. Looks nice, so I'll likely be there day one when it hits Switch. Preordered it on Amazon when the price went down to $29.99.

There's some games I absolutely adore that the GAF peanut gallery would take every opportunity to shit on, like Worms 3D, Codename Steam and Future Tactics the Uprising. I try not to shit on something until I've played a bit to decide that it's not good.

 

[Audioboxer]

I think this is one of the friendliest forums I've ever posted on- it's really, really well moderated, and the userbase is diverse enough that you don't get the groupthink thing that you see in the majority of online communities (especially on parts of Twitter). Even if there is a majority opinion, there are always enough dissenting voices that they don't get silenced (unless someone is being sexist/homophobic etc, in which case everyone is quick to call them out, which is great).

But also I kinda think that there is real vitriol directed at people outside of the board itself sometimes, and it's often framed by this kinda right-wing "but muh consumer rights" sort of thing, which can come across as very entitled and individualist sometimes. 'Consumer rights' has become a buzz word for basically everything anyone doesn't like, and I think that NeoGAF is better than just being conspiracy theorists complaining about how every game is a scam (like No Man's Sky. That's not a scam- it's just a very mediocre game by an inexperienced dev who got in too deep).

It's not a battle with gamers vs. devs, and our 'consumer rights' come first and sod the dev's working conditions, personal lives, or right to make mistakes. And when it comes to games, I don't see myself as a consumer- I'm a participant, and I support devs, especially the majority who are small teams struggling to make great games, for years of their lives. The relationship between gamer and developer is two way, and organic, and we need to see ourselves as part of a gaming ecosystem, rather than cynical, isolated consumers.

Also, we need to direct much more of our ire at publishers and the exploitative nature of the games industry as a whole. Not just in "oh this game is too expensive", but more like "hey Platform Holder, you're treating this dev like shit and messing them around with this exclusivity deal", "hey Publisher, you're making this developer crunch for six months so they never see their families and are getting physically ill", and "hey Media Conglomerate, you're taking specific action to prevent anyone in the games industry from forming a Union and improving their working conditions."

More understanding, less right-wing individualism, and more solidarity with devs, particularly smaller developers, would make this forum a better place, in my opinion.

While I think there is definitely discussions to be had on developer working conditions and crunch culture, that's often something way out with the direct control of a consumer. So I have no idea what "right-wing individualism" is? I've read your post multiple times and while I can see arguments around devs working conditions and how consumers respond to spending their own money, arguably separate discussions to be had, I still don't know why you're invoking "right wing" with "individualism" / "consumer rights"?

It's quite simply really, consumers spend their own money. Either acquired through hard work, allowance, or any sort of income given to them that has to be spent with consideration. That is what the consumer cares about first and foremost, and that is life, there are bills to pay and competing products/services going after left over finances. In a realm where so much money is blown on marketing, vertical slices, careful demos, PR, previews/reviews and so on, consumers are often surrounded by a minefield of information. Pre-order culture, season passes, MTs and release day review embargoes and amongst everything else the industry throws at us produces a lot of the caution verging on rampant criticism that goes on. NMS had a serious run in with lies, propaganda and misinformation around previews/hype. Saying "oh it all got the better of us/hindsight!" after all the pre-orders cashed in is never going to go down well with consumers. They want honesty, transparency and to know what exactly they are buying day 1 considering release day review embargos are now the industry standard (for most games).

Hence, devs need to have a thick skin like I said on the page before and focus on trying to create a good product. This is how it is in ANY industry where the goal is to get money out of the consumers banks/wallets. Consumers aren't corporate shills, and while there is many strident fans before anyone lols at me, the majority of people will flip-flop around when it's their money on the line. If something objectively sucks it tends to sell less, or get a metric shit-ton of criticism. Ask MS how that felt with the XB1 launch after courting most of the industry with the beloved Xbox 360. Loyalty can turn in a fingerclick in the gaming industry, even if some strident fans remain loyal.

All consumers have is their wallets and their voices. Expect both to be used often, repeatedly and at times with some harsh words. Devs should remember "refund-culture" has kicked off because of the amount of downright broken shit put out (mostly on the PC, but consoles get it too). This industry isn't some cotton candy affair where it's constantly "poor devs" fighting against the "nasty consumers". There's a lot of back and forth, and while I will concede there is examples of devs getting it really rough, there is a million examples of studios and publishers bending over consumers.

 

[Josh5890]

We can't make you be nice.

I want to buy you a video game!

 

[Fahzgoolin]

I have tried for the last 3 years to get along with people here, but I decided that putting people on ignore is just a more enjoyable experience. If someone is a massive jerk or constantly condescending/passive aggressive, I don't want to read what you have to say.

The last few months have been liberating because of this.

 

[SystemBug]

Ooookaay?

I'm feeling there's a bit of a contradiction here.

Yeah wtf is this

 

[Truant]

I once posted a link to a YouTube video of some of my music here on GAF. The YT comments section were filled with racist vitriol after like 4 hours.

The internet is a strange place.

 

[Azerare]

But we're usually so nice

First post opens up with a great lie lol. But sure i'll let you keep your innocence.