Support NeoGAF

[ModBot]

There was probably a discussion to be had before it became "What is the right amount of angry to be at the Trump presidency, if any" as well as "How much is it appropriate to hate NeoGAF and still spend like 18 hours of your day online posting on NeoGAF". But now that it's those things, I think the thread has run its course.

 

[EviLore]

I tried reading it multiple times but I just don't get this comment. Someone please explain?

Wait, wait, hold on a sec, modbot. Can someone help out our friend?


General commentary:

-Should probably be talking about your two whole day cry with your therapist and not Edge Magazine. Also sounds like it would be pretty cathartic in any case. Did you emerge from your cocoon of tears a brave new boy new ready to face your first actual challenges in life? I bet you did! You're quite welcome.

-Criticism or accusation on a video game message board about a creative work triggering a traumatic psychological event from the creative director does not constitute contradictory evidence against the criticism or accusation. In other words, NeoGAF's not Bad Monster Who Is Wrong because of this guy's tears. That's an appeal to pity, not a rebuttal to anything he read.

-NeoGAF is actively moderated and we don't very much tolerate personal attacks, hate speech, and unsubstantiated claims. What we don't police, however, is someone not liking a thing you like or you liking a thing someone else doesn't like. If you keep it civil, don't drag a thread down around your own ego (unless you're me, *wink*, *thread unlock*), and back up your positions, and you're not just being inflammatory for the sake of it, then things are probably operating as intended. If you're uncomfortable with your favorite game or favorite developer-turned-god being criticized, go have yourself a good cry and head elsewhere.

-Despite someone having a breakdown here and there, or someone making a public exit some other time, or whatever a blowhard on Twitter says, the industry and the press follow NeoGAF pretty closely, and most industry folks are totally chill about the site. A lot of indies have expressed love and appreciation for the organic exposure they've gotten here that helped bring their projects to the spotlight on their own merit and thank me that NeoGAF exists and remains an independent entity where that can actually happen, and at the other end of the spectrum lots of AAA studios have taken notes on issues highlighted here and acknowledged and appreciated feedback, even very harsh feedback.

Most creatives figure out how to cope with criticism of their work and adjust accordingly. Some enjoy engaging directly on social platforms and can ignore any random trolls that might drive by, some watch from the sidelines to varying degrees, some ignore what the internet has to say entirely.

Someone compulsively chose to read the accumulated criticism of their thing in one go and cried afterwards. After serious and lengthy deliberation I have decided...not to shut down NeoGAF in response to this news. Thanks!

 

[Gold_Loot]

Hell, I'm not even a developer and I cry reading Neogaf sometimes.

 

[Jonneh3003]

Well this certainly is a turn of events, not seen a thread unlocked before

 

[Doug Heffernan]

The internet can be a cruel place.

 

[Pinky]

Well this certainly is a turn of events, not seen a thread unlocked before

I have. Mainly OTs and review threads that go up a little too early.

 

[OfficerRaichu15]

Love the forum but some users are very harsh(mod team is doing everything they can though which I applaud).

 

[wesleyshark]

You'll always have your drive-by's, but I'd say that the mods do a solid job in policing the users who cross the line or get out of hand or just need to cool the jets. Critiquing a video game is not any of those contexts.

Well this certainly is a turn of events, not seen a thread unlocked before

That's two in two weeks' time lol.

 

[Cyanity]

Someone unironically made a post earlier today wishing that the studio would "crash and burn" because the Switch version of RIME is gonna be $10 more than the other versions.

It's dumb posts like that that make me want to buy the Switch version out of spite.

 

[Instro]

How will ModBot take this?

 

[Bloodporne]

Make a killer game and I'll write something for you to smile over for two days, it's simple.

 

[Fisty]

Good point, he definitely didn't address any criticism or try to set the the record straight. Just "mean ol' GAF" to try to paint us badly without any pesky facts to get in the way.

Let the thread live.

 

[AlexBasch]

But we're usually so nice

I don't think so.

And I kinda like that, to be honest.

 

[Atomski]

This is the internet though.. gotta see through the bullshit comments and grow a thick skin.

No matter how good your content is there will always be those who think it's shit. *Shrug*

 

[Prototype Viktor]

Lack of information can make most things a scam, like most Ubisoft games

 

[jacobeid]

Someone unironically made a post earlier today wishing that the studio would "crash and burn" because the Switch version of RIME is gonna be $10 more than the other versions.

It's dumb posts like that that make me want to buy the Switch version out of spite.

Capitalism at its finest! I don't want the studio to crash and burn, but I do hope that the Switch version under performs so as not to send the message to other publishers/developers that price gouging is an acceptable practice. Is that unreasonable?

 

[Pai Pai Master]

How will ModBot take this?

Modbot's a scam.

 

[mujun]

It's too much effort for most people to be even-keeled or fair online.

 

[brawly]

Yes, that's how it works. If I call you a child molester in front of your coworkers and everyone believes me, you have no reason to be sad because it isn't true.

What? Why would I be sad? I'd tell you to shut up and prove it, that it's not true.

Which is what these guys could've done if those rumours were infact not true.

 

[Team Filler]

-NeoGAF is actively moderated and we don't very much tolerate personal attacks, hate speech, and unsubstantiated claims. What we don't police, however, is someone not liking a thing you like or you liking a thing someone else doesn't like. If you keep it civil, don't drag a thread down around your own ego (unless you're me, *wink*, *thread unlock*), and back up your positions, and you're not just being inflammatory for the sake of it, then things are probably operating as intended. If you're uncomfortable with your favorite game or favorite developer-turned-god being criticized, go have yourself a good cry and head elsewhere.

My thinking is that this is where some people (devs & gamers alike) struggle with negative or critical posts on GAF. I think it's far easier for someone to completely dismiss or ignore criticism when it is coming from a random person also engaging in personal attacks and hate speech, than it would be coming from a moderated environment like GAF where that crap is not tolerated.

 

[MrS]

How will ModBot take this?

Maybe Modbot will cry about it for two days

 

[Ceallach]

I cried for two days when I tried to watch the Chapelle Netflix special and evilore kept popping up on camera.

 

[wesleyshark]

Maybe Modbot will cry about it for 2 days

Do Modbots cry? 🤔

 

[RedAssedApe]

lol

reading your post combined with tag made me crack up

 

[N30RYU]

It remains to be seen if we all will end up crying if this game turns to be shit.

 

[Weltall Zero]

I personally don't think his criticism was levied at you, Evilore, or any part of GAF's infrastructure, mods, etc. I don't think most people in the thread even entertained the thought, otherwise we'd have seen a lot more talk about it. NeoGAF the community (as in, us, GAFers, the people that form it) may not be perfect, simply by virtue of us being fallible humans, but I honestly believe NeoGAF, the forum, and its management and guidelines, pretty close to the perfect fine line between too much and too little moderation, which is no small feat. I don't think I'm alone in this and if we perceived any criticism towards GAF the forum, I think many of us would have been very vocal against it.

Rather, if there is any criticism in Raul Rubio's words (of which I'm not even entirely sure), it would be of us GAFers, and more generally online communities at large. And I think there is room for reflection about how we often post exaggerated hot takes to things that incense us, sometimes without being entirely warranted, and how it might hurt others. Or at least I know I do; I'm not proud of it but I get incensed more often than I should.

As I said earlier in the thread, I think if anything this shows that he cares. Perhaps he cares about NeoGAF more than other forums, who knows. I would take that as a compliment in any case, and I don't think there's true animosity in his words.

I also think we should acknowledge that indie game development can be utterly soul-crushing, so giving people some emotional elbow room and even support might not be a bad idea.

Sorry, I think I'm rambling, I'm a bit sleep-deprivated right now.

 

[Alienous]

Upon further consideration I wonder, could the tears have been tears of joy from all of the overzealous Team Ico game comparisons? There were certainly a lot of those.

 

[Phamit]

Which thread was so terrible that he needed to cry for two days?

I remember they tweeted that they laughed about the GAF threads

 

[Lemondish]

GAF is a community of passionate gamers, not passionate writers. Articulating complex ideas is not this community's strength.

 

[weekev]

I appreciate Evilores response, I think for the most part GAFs mods do an outstanding job of dishing out bans where necessary and locking threads when they get out of hand or pointless.

I also think that some perspective is needed. This situation with Rime looked dodgy as fuck so people called Tequila out on it. Turns out the game was in development hell which probably made everyone involved super stressed and super sensitive to any negativity surrounding it.

Seems like the reactions of GAF and also the developer are justifiable responses and GAF shouldn't be vilified, however I can understand the tears from the rev as clearly the folks claiming it a scam were wrong in their assertions however well founded they were.

I'm glad they have turned it round and we're set for a happy conclusion. I hope GAF never changes, it's by far the best internet community out there.

 

[commish]

I have a hard time believing that someone was crying over GAF threads, even if it was about their own work.

 

[7roject28]

I cried for two days when I tried to watch the Chapelle Netflix special and evilore kept popping up on camera.

Dang, forgot about that Chapelle special. Gonna watch it when I get home. Thanks.

 

[brickarts295]

Which thread was so terrible that he needed to cry for two days?

I remember they tweeted that they laughed about the GAF threads

If I have to guess, it might be the one about Sony dropping the developers.
EDIT: NVM I can't even find the thread.

 

[JP]

I don't know, doesn't really seem like they've dealt with any of this very well.

When the game was first announced I thought it looked really interesting but then they were dropped then all the negative news started leaking and it all to fit in with the other negative news that was leaking. The game may well end up being amazing but over time they've lost my confidence in it so I've stepped back and I'm happy to just wait and see and possibly pick it up in a sale in the future if it's good enough.

I don't think the way that the handled this with Edge is the best way of dealing with it but the way they did deal with it does seem to fit in with the way they've dealt with everything else about the project which makes me really cautious. There's just something about the whole thing that feels like one of those Kickstarter projects that because more and more suspect as time goes on.

Again, it could end up being the best game in the world when it's released but something doesn;t quite add up in terms of how they've handled the whole project.

 

[Drencrom]

I can understand a creator getting dismayed over criticism but I feel like if you get that emotionally distressed over it you probably should stay away from all internet discussion regarding your work.

 

[Exploratory]

Lol if I'm a game Dev I'm not reading GAF for opinions are you crazy. Anytime you create something and you start reading negative comments you go down a well you can't come back from. Games more than any type of media are generally pretty faceless and people feel more comfortable criticizing that.

 

[What did he mean by this?]

Imagine if Zack Snyder read GAF

 

[Thebeardofknowledge]

I have to know what bish thinks though

 

[Jaguar Victory]

If someone criticised my work I'd just want to knock it out of the park to prove them wrong. Some folk are more sensitive I guess.

 

[PikkonX]

I'm just a lowly Junior, but I don't think this site is anywhere near as vicious as some of you guys make it out to be. For every bit of extreme hyperbole, there's usually a balancing, level-headed statement somewhere. Sure, there's a lot of armchair analysts, but oftentimes the negativity isn't without merit.

 

[Sir_Crocodile]

Bet Iga would cry if he read all your comments over the past few years OP

 

[CyclopsRock]

What? The world is a shitty place and R's in the US are basically trying to fuck people as much as they possible can right now. I'm not going to go "oh, but maybe there's some good ones". No. They're all passing horrible, awful shit through our government. I'm not going to pretend that I think you can maybe be a good person if you support this administration and the awful fucking shit they're doing day after day. I refuse.

You're the only one bringing up the Republican party. The person you were quoting didn't mention them, and they're a political party that only exists in one country in the world.

 

[Weltall Zero]

What? Why would I be sad?

Because in my scenario, your coworkers believed it, like people believed the rumours without proof.

I'd tell you to shut up and prove it, that it's not true.

Again, much like people believed the rumours, in my scenario people believed what I said without proof. If this feels wrong to you, why didn't you ask the rumour-mongers for proof, and instead believed them straight away?

Which is what these guys could've done if those rumours were infact not true.

Huh? Didn't the January footage prove that the rumours were indeed false?

 

[_Isaac]

I remember back when the rumors of troubled development came out, their twitter had posted something about how they were laughing at the thread.

 

[Nickle]

We should implement an upvote/downvote system so that the Rime haters can have their messages ignored. Then we can put those haters in a special subforum so they can talk amongst themselves.

 

[Not]

I also think we should acknowledge that indie game development can be utterly soul-crushing, so giving people some emotional elbow room and even support might not be a bad idea.

Unless, of course, you possess such a narrow and antisocial perspective that it has become second nature for you to throw out cruel and entitled aspersions towards someone you've never met personally who is spending a substantial portion of their life creating something that's intended to make you, the consumer, happy. Then go for it.

 

[Vyse The Legend]

I personally don't think his criticism was levied at you, Evilore, or any part of GAF's infrastructure, mods, etc. I don't think most people in the thread even entertained the thought, otherwise we'd have seen a lot more talk about it. NeoGAF the community (as in, us, GAFers, the people that form it) may not be perfect, simply by virtue of us being fallible humans, but I honestly believe NeoGAF, the forum, and its management and guidelines, pretty close to the perfect fine line between too much and too little moderation, which is no small feat. I don't think I'm alone in this and if we perceived any criticism towards GAF the forum, I think many of us would have been very vocal against it.

Rather, if there is any criticism in Raul Rubio's words (of which I'm not even entirely sure), it would be of us GAFers, and more generally online communities at large. And I think there is room for reflection about how we often post exaggerated hot takes to things that incense us, sometimes without being entirely warranted, and how it might hurt others. Or at least I know I do; I'm not proud of it but I get incensed more often than I should.

As I said earlier in the thread, I think if anything this shows that he cares. Perhaps he cares about NeoGAF more than other forums, who knows. I would take that as a compliment in any case, and I don't think there's true animosity in his words.

I also think we should acknowledge that indie game development can be utterly soul-crushing, so giving people some emotional elbow room and even support might not be a bad idea.

Sorry, I think I'm rambling, I'm a bit sleep-deprivated right now.

That's the thing. There was then and still is now plenty of support for Rime; negative feedback just tends to disproportionately affect people more than positive comments. It's human nature, for better or worse.

This forum tends to have people arguing on all sides in any given conversation, and the mods generally do a great job at weeding out habitual line-steppers. I mean, if we are OK with people defending RE6 as a "good" game, then NeoGAF is truly a safe space!

 

[ryseing]

Other games he's liked didn't get critically torpedoed feeding into people's confirmation bias. Either way the bitching at him in the review thread was absolutely ridiculous and there's no getting around that.

Shinobi went to bat for The Order and we all know how that turned out. That being said, definitely agree that he did not deserve the scorn he got.

 

[GrayFoxPL]

Hell, I'm not even a developer and I cry reading Neogaf sometimes.

 

[MatrixMan.EXE]

And NeoGAF is largely a positive website that encourages discussion and not everybody is gonna like the same thing.

Far from it. While I enjoy posting here and being part of the community, the culture of negativity and cynicism on Gaming side has been extremely toxic recently. The way I see people here talking about developers and their livelihoods is disgusting. The only people who actually believe what you've said are Gaffers.

For all of the high horse talk about being better than GameFAQs or N4G, outside of the OT, the amazing community threads and awesome tech discussions, GAF can be just as bad as those places and consistently so. Thank god the mods here are as good as they are at what they do. Things could be a lot worse if it wasn't for them.

Edit: I saw EviLore's post - You've got the balance right. With a community this large, mods can only do so much and of course you don't want to choke out discourse. What you've done a great job of doing is making the enjoyable parts of this forum really enjoyable, which is the main thing. There's a place for you on this forum no matter what system you support, no matter what games you like to play etc. which can't be said for many forums out there.