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[Latvian Hitman]

Also, OKC's defensive core is incredibly underrated. Players like Gibson, Roberson, Adams, Oladipo, etc. were great defensively.

How many two-way players are there on that list?

I see one: Oladipo. And he's a good, but certainly not great defender.

OKC's roster is full of specialists. Which was fine when you had two top-5 guys on the roster to mingle them with. With just WB and no shooters to space the floor, they're an extremely flawed roster from top to bottom.

 

[cLOUDo]

Once again for reading comprehension. Houston has shooters/scorers on that roster. They're still a top four offense without him.

OKC offense is in the toilet without Westbrook. Not complicated.

Are your arguing that the Beard plays defense?

So... A OKC with Westbrook still can't beat the Houston without Harden?

Damn, that put his Playoffs in another perspective.

 

[Supast4r]

How the hell is this controversial

Harden had a great season but Westbrook broke a record no one thought could be broken

Because people don't like Westbrook and let their personal feelings get in the way

 

[Bread]

How many two-way players are there on that list?

I see one: Oladipo. And he's a good, but certainly not great defender.

OKC's roster is full of specialists. Which was fine when you had two top-5 guys on the roster to mingle them with. With just WB and no shooters to space the floor, they're an extremely flawed roster from top to bottom.

Calling Oladipo a two way player is very generous

 

[seanoff]

I was just looking at the stats around this award.

And OT. Holy shit - Steph Curry is a 50-40-90 career shooter. 15-16 he had a 55-45-90. Yikes


I'd have gone Kawhi. Plays both ends.

Russ is a ball hog. OKCs offence goes to shit when he's off the court because the others have no idea what the round thing is supposed to be used for, they never see it.

Harden - defence. LOL, what the fuck is that?

 

[CD'S BAR]

Not only did he average a triple double, he averaged a 30pt triple double i.e. led the league in scoring. That is absurd. Well deserved.

 

[Tragicomedy]

Russ is a ball hog. OKCs offence goes to shit when he's off the court because the others have no idea what the round thing is supposed to be used for, they never see it.

Great call. #3 in assists with 10.4 per game. Ahead of those other ball hogs Chris Paul and Ricky Rubio.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Great call. #3 in assists with 10.4 per game. Ahead of those other ball hogs Chris Paul and Ricky Rubio.

You can be a ball hog and still rack up assists. If someone has high usage, or constantly has the ball in his hands and the entire offense runs through him, it stands to reason he's going to have a lot of assists. Stephon Marbury routinely had seasons where he averaged 8 or 9 assists per game.

 

[Tragicomedy]

You can be a ball hog and still rack up assists. If someone has high usage, or constantly has the ball in his hands and the entire offense runs through him, it stands to reason he's going to have a lot of assists. Stephon Marbury routinely had seasons where he averaged 8 or 9 assists per game.

High usage, yes. The same model we saw from James Harden this season. Ball dominant, all offense runs through them.

Ball hog? No. Who does Westbrook defer to for scoring on that roster? The games he was most ball dominant (triple doubles with lots of scoring) were the ones the team won.

 

[-tetsuo-]

High usage, yes. The same model we saw from James Harden this season. Ball dominant, all offense runs through them.

Ball hog? No. Who does Westbrook defer to for scoring on that roster? The games he was most ball dominant (triple doubles with lots of scoring) were the ones the team won.

I guess you didn't watch the playoffs

 

[CD'S BAR]

I guess you didn't watch the playoffs

regular season award. and you could say harden underperformed in the playoffs if you want to go there.

 

[LionPride]

Who else could score on the Thunder except for Kanter who can't move on Defense?

 

[Tragicomedy]

I guess you didn't watch the playoffs

False. And a bad argument for two reasons. First, regular season award. Secondly, Harden played the most incompetent game of his pro career these playoffs in clutch time against the Spurs.

As I said in the playoff thread, I'd rather watch Westbrook go supernova and rage against the dying of the light than watch Harden turn the ball over 13 times and disappear into the shadows. Both results were the same and inevitable this playoffs, but one was chaotic beauty and the other was flopping and jumping into defenders after illegal high screens.

 

[Ricky_R]

Secondly, Harden played the most incompetent game of his pro career these playoffs in clutch time against the Spurs.

FTFY.

 

[BlackNMild2k1]

The funny thing about this is most teams manhandle Curry on every play. The dude can't get a call to save his life.

ain't that the TRUTH. no respect.

But I'm torn on WB.
On one hand, he hogs the ball so much, and shoots the ball so often, that he often takes his team right out of the game. When he does pass the ball, it's usually really late, and into a crowded situation, forcing a quick and often lucky response out of someone like Adams to get a handle and get the ball in the hoop.
but on the other hand.... if he had someone else to pass to that he could trust to do something productive with the ball, then he might pass it sooner and more often.

He was a beast out on the court the entire time he was playing, but quite a few of those rebounds were left for him to pick up. I understand that they play faster when Russ can grab and go, but they are still allowing him to cherry pick that rebounding stat.

OKC better get another reliable ball handling scorer on the roster, otherwise WB gonna have another tough year next year. And they also need to develop the other players on the team to have some confidence in running an offense not spearheaded by WB himself. They need another playmaker for real.

But I think Russ was just as deserving to be in the running for MVP as Kawhi or Harden (or KD), but WB probably wouldn't have been my pick if I had a vote at all

 

[Tragicomedy]

FTFY.

Thanks, that's correct. Fixed for old man memory.

He was a beast out on the court the entire time he was playing, but quite a few of those rebounds were left for him to pick up. I understand that they play faster when Russ can grab and go, but they are still allowing him to cherry pick that rebounding stat.

This is true. It's also true of Harden. And LeBron. The stats back that up. Contested rebound percentages are in the 20s for all three.

 

[the_darkness]

Who the fuck cares if you're a "ball hog" if that's what gives your team the best chance to win?

 

[Tragicomedy]

Who the fuck cares if you're a "ball hog" if that's what gives your team the best chance to win?

It's the same false narrative people are pushing in here with the "triple doubles are meaningless" garbage.

OKC went 33-9 when Westbrook got a triple double. They were 13-25 when he didn't. When he dominated the ball and filled up the stats sheet, they won. Ball don't lie.

He was also clutch as hell.
http://www.espn.com/blog/okc-thunde...e-doubles-were-him-showing-up-not-showing-off

This was the first game-winning buzzer-beater of Westbrook's career, but he leads the league with four go-ahead field goals in the final 10 seconds of games this season, according to ESPN Stats & Information research. Westbrook's 247 points in the clutch -- final five minutes, score within five points -- are four shy of LeBron James' total in 2007-08 for the most in a season by any player over the last 20 years. Westbrook's clutch plus-minus (plus-85) ranks third in the NBA.

To put it simply, Westbrook has consistently carried the Thunder to wins in the season after the franchise was rocked by Kevin Durant's departure. Combine that with his historic production -- a league-leading 31.9 points plus 10.7 rebounds and 10.4 assists per game -- and he is clearly the top MVP candidate. At least if you listen to the coach whose team got torched by Westbrook on Sunday.

"Russell Westbrook to be the only player since Oscar Robertson to average a triple-double -- no disrespect to their team, but I think James Harden has more help over there [in Houston]," Nuggets coach Michael Malone said before the game. "Earlier in the year, people said he can't keep this up for 82 games, and he has. What he's done is really something that you see once in a lifetime, so my vote would go to Russell Westbrook."

 

[Ninja Scooter]

It's the same false narrative people are pushing in here with the "triple doubles are meaningless" garbage.

OKC went 33-9 when Westbrook got a triple double. They were 13-25 when he didn't. When he dominated the ball and filled up the stats sheet, they won. Ball don't lie.

He was also clutch as hell.
http://www.espn.com/blog/okc-thunde...e-doubles-were-him-showing-up-not-showing-off

You mean a team has a better record when their best player plays well? Preposterous!

 

[Tragicomedy]

You mean a team has a better record when their best player plays well? Preposterous!

That's a deliberately narrow read of what I said.

The team won games when Westbrook dominated the ball and filled up the stat sheet. They lost when he didn't. There's a direct correlation.

You've been downplaying the impact of his triple doubles as a meaningless statistical accomplishment that he was chasing. I'm saying the data shows the team only won games consistently when he hit that milestone.

 

[Shamrock7r]

That's a deliberately narrow read of what I said.

The team won games when Westbrook dominated the ball and filled up the stat sheet. They lost when he didn't. There's a direct correlation.

You've been downplaying the impact of his triple doubles as a meaningless statistical accomplishment that he was chasing. I'm saying the data shows the team only won games consistently when he hit that milestone.

I guarantee you if Westbrook averages another triple double this year, and his team has the same or a similar record, he isn't winning the MVP

 

[Tragicomedy]

I guarantee you if Westbrook averages another triple double this year, and his team has the same or a similar record, he isn't winning the MVP

That's a pretty foolish guarantee unless you're also projrcting what sort of season your imagined winner will have.

 

[Shamrock7r]

That's a pretty foolish guarantee unless you're also projrcting what sort of season your imagined winner will have.

It's a pretty rock solid guarantee imo. The Triple Double was a nice narrative this last year that steamrolled Westbrook to the mvp despite just as productive players being on teams with better records, but that type of narrative, along with the pity party of Durant leaving, does not last without team success.

 

[Caddywompus]

I guess you didn't watch the playoffs

False. And a bad argument for two reasons. First, regular season award. Secondly, Harden played the most incompetent game of his pro career these playoffs in clutch time against the Spurs.

As I said in the playoff thread, I'd rather watch Westbrook go supernova and rage against the dying of the light than watch Harden turn the ball over 13 times and disappear into the shadows. Both results were the same and inevitable this playoffs, but one was chaotic beauty and the other was flopping and jumping into defenders after illegal high screens.

Except if you watched the playoffs you saw OKC at their best when Westbrook trusted his teammates and didn't attempt to take over the game. When the shots stopped falling, Westbrook panicked and never returned to his teammates in the 4th.

 

[Tragicomedy]

It's a pretty rock solid guarantee imo. The Triple Double was a nice narrative this last year that steamrolled Westbrook to the mvp despite just as productive players being on teams with better records, but that type of narrative, along with the pity party of Durant leaving, does not last without team success.

But the team...did succeed? Nobody had them pegged to win it all. Making the playoffs in the West is an accomplishment with that roster.

Who do you favor to take it all next season? With the CP3 trade, Harden's numbers will drop, particularly the assists. Durant or LeBron could/would win it every year, but their teams are stacked and that likely hurts them with some voters. Leonard? Someone else?

Except if you watched the playoffs you saw OKC at their best when Westbrook trusted his teammates and didn't attempt to take over the game. When the shots stopped falling, Westbrook panicked and never returned to his teammates in the 4th.

Are you talking only game one? Sure. He kept them alive every other game that series by playing out of his mind. They lost three of those games by a combined 13 points and won one.

The team was not their best when he trusted guys teammates and laid back. What a silly revisionist narrative.

 

[Shamrock7r]

But the team...did succeed? Nobody had them pegged to win it all. Making the playoffs in the West is an accomplishment with that roster.

Who do you favor to take it all next season? With the CP3 trade, Harden's numbers will drop, particularly the assists. Durant or LeBron could/would win it every year, but their teams are stacked and that likely hurts them with some voters. Leonard? Someone else?
.

Hard to say because the narrative changes every year. It's very rare you have one player stand head and shoulders aboved everyone else ala Curry a few years ago. One of the things that is almost always certain though is that you usually have to be on a top 4 team to get mvp. It's rare when that isn't the case. In fact, Westbrook is the first since 1997 if my quick google search is correct.

Kawhi has a really good shot next year with the narrative of these super teams forming around him, with the Warriors and now the Rockets. If his team can have a high 50's or another 60 win season. I can see him getting it.
I also think Lebron has a really good shot next year as it's been awhile and the fatigue of giving it to him is pretty much gone.
There will be 1 or 2 other dark horses.