Look at the difference in shooting % though. Player A definitely had a better game.
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Russell "Why Not?" Westbrook Named NBA MVP
- Thread starter Tragicomedy
- Start date
Look at the difference in shooting % though. Player A definitely had a better game.
ryutaro's mama
Member
Yes really. Like you said, we don't know how that player shot 7-25. Could've been getting mugged all night with no calls.
Could have shot a few at the end of quarters from mid court.
So, like you said, the final number don't always tell the whole story.
Ninja Scooter
Member
Yes really. Like you said, we don't know how that player shot 7-25. Could've been getting mugged all night with no calls.
Could have shot a few at the end of quarters from mid court.
So, like you said, the final number don't always tell the whole story.
And a Triple Double alone tells you even less than that, which is the point.
Vestal
Gold Member
Good thing MVP is not the Best Player in the league. If that were the case MJ would have won MVP every year straight since 88, and Lebron would be collecting his 10th or something to that effect.
Ninja Scooter
Member
MVP is whatever you want it to be, and yes, it can also mean "best player in the league".
ryutaro's mama
Member
I feel like we are talking in circles now.
Ninja Scooter
Member
What is saying is that you are adding qualifiers, "was he mugged", "what kind of shots was he taking", "what was the outcome", which tells you me that you awknowledge that having more information when analyzing and informing player performance is a good thing, a valuable thing, which makes it silly to stick to "triple double" as such an important qualifier when it informs you of next to nothing.
Vestal
Gold Member
Looking at the past 30 MVP trophys handed out...
I would say 8 of those players selected were actually the best Players in the league at that time. The rest were just pushed in there in order to not do repeat winners, or because the Best player in the league at the time was on a shit team.
MJ
Magic
Shaq
Hakeem
Iverson
Timmy D
Lebron
Kobe
Barkley better player than MJ in 93? NOPE
Malone better than MJ?!?! hahaha NOPE
DRose better than LBJ? NOPE
KD, Curry better than LBJ? NOPE
Garnett better than Timmy? NOPE
Nash better than Diesel? NOPE
Ninja Scooter
Member
I don't get what your point is? That doesn't mean I can't believe, and some actual voters can't believe, that the MVP is the best player in the league. They aren't mutually exclusive.
Vestal
Gold Member
Well in a season like this one they are.. Westbrook is not the best player in the league.
Ninja Scooter
Member
I agree with you. I don't think he was either. And I don't mind Him being MVP, it's not some travesty, even though he wouldn't have been my pick.
Vestal
Gold Member
I don't mind it either.. He accomplished something amazing.
ryutaro's mama
Member
Why would he be doing that?
Is it because you are projecting onto him what you are doing?
Well one has a ring and one doesn't I guess.
ryutaro's mama
Member
Yeah, I totally see KD being petty af like that...and to Russ of all people.
😐
Shrugs like you would know KD better than the poster that mentioned it.
Tragicomedy
Member
Assists are the closest RBI equivalent, even though nothing is equivalent and the comparison to that stat is Fisher Price work. At least assists rely on an external factor, namely your teammate hitting the shot.
Harden stans downplay the rebounds, which works against them considering the contested rebound stats were nearly identical: Westbrook 20.7%, Harden 21.2%. It's okay, the best player in the world barely sits at 24.7%.
The other argument that Westbrook plays out of control and turns the ball over a lot is valid. Harden turns it over more, though. I watched every one of his 13 turnovers in game five against Golden State. That's the most clueless I've seen him all season. That makes sense given your ridiculously good the Warriors are. But Harden looked his worst on the biggest stage.
Harden stans downplay the rebounds, which works against them considering the contested rebound stats were nearly identical: Westbrook 20.7%, Harden 21.2%. It's okay, the best player in the world barely sits at 24.7%.
The other argument that Westbrook plays out of control and turns the ball over a lot is valid. Harden turns it over more, though. I watched every one of his 13 turnovers in game five against Golden State. That's the most clueless I've seen him all season. That makes sense given your ridiculously good the Warriors are. But Harden looked his worst on the biggest stage.
ryutaro's mama
Member
Have you seen that nigga's twitter feed as of late. He petty as fuck
Not towards Russie tho
I don't pretend to know what KD is thinking or not thinking. You asked why the poster said such a thing I told maybe the reason he typed that is one just left to win a ring while the other well win MVP I guess
Monochromaticx
Member
He was excluded because it wouldn't be fair to the other scrubs. Gotta keep it competitive
True Savior
Member
Horford was robbed.
MugiwaraCole
Member
Yeah. Because he'd be averaging 2 less rebounds a game.
A triple double tells you someone did at least 3 things pretty well. What the hell are you talking about?
That chart shows Harden being on the floor has a much smaller impact versus Westbrook in that regard.
Harden was deserving of MVP, but so was Westbrook.
And? Why does it matter what the team was projected at? The Rockets are full of great scorers and have an All-NBA defensive talent in Patrick Beverly. It doesn't matter what the team was or did in previous seasons, what the expectation was going into the season, what have you. What matters is how they played.
Falchion
Member
As soon as Kevin Durant left for the Warriors I made a bet with my friend that Westbrook would go supernova and win the MVP. We bet takeout on it and I let him take the field. I have never been more rewarded for banking on a little ball of basketball fury. Thanks for the free Chipotle Russell.
KiwiLannister
Member
I feel like people who don't support russ for mvp didn't even watch his games and just read stats.
If you've ever played on a team with shit spacing and only one playmaker before then you know how hard it is for someone like russ to score. You also know that him throwing up some 40 percent bullshit is better than someone like Roberson trying to create a 0 percent look with 5s left on the clock.
Pre season predictions are meaningless. This season exposed the thunders lack of shooting and also showed Lou will and Eric Gordon to be an amazing bench for the rockets. Dantoni should be getting a lot of credit for that offense, more so than harden seeing as his impact on that offense was not nearly to the same level as russ. Not to try argue that harden wasn't brilliant himself though.
You swap their teams (another useless comparison) and thunder don't make the playoffs.
If you've ever played on a team with shit spacing and only one playmaker before then you know how hard it is for someone like russ to score. You also know that him throwing up some 40 percent bullshit is better than someone like Roberson trying to create a 0 percent look with 5s left on the clock.
Pre season predictions are meaningless. This season exposed the thunders lack of shooting and also showed Lou will and Eric Gordon to be an amazing bench for the rockets. Dantoni should be getting a lot of credit for that offense, more so than harden seeing as his impact on that offense was not nearly to the same level as russ. Not to try argue that harden wasn't brilliant himself though.
You swap their teams (another useless comparison) and thunder don't make the playoffs.
You are not wrong to say that, but I think we should are charitable and let these other guys get a chance to touch the trophy for awhile.
Once Ball gets ahold of it it is going to be in the family for a long ass time.
Violence Jack
Member
We drafted the finals and regular season MVPs. Time to give us back our Sonics Adam Silver.
True but 42 triple doubles tells you that the player is consistently aggressive at the highest level.
Aggressively stat padding am I right?
No, you're wrong.
Ninja Scooter
Member
No it doesn't. Someone could score 10 points on 5-20 shooting. Does that mean he did that thing pretty well?
Is your point here that Russ isn't a good offensive player...?
You really don't get the context of his post?
elrechazado
Banned
Yes, because reaching an amount greater than nine is a quantum leap in performance, and all that matters.
But Westbrook averaged 31 over the season.
He deserved it. Period.
All 3 of then were deserving. Russ did better
LegendofDragoonLives
Member
No, he's right.
Earthbound64
Banned
ryutaro's mama
Member
Extreme example to make a point?
How many of his 42 triple doubles were based around that 10 on 5-20 example? If Russell was barely getting over the hump, averaging like 12,10,10, I would be with you.
Ninja Scooter
Member
Again, I'm not saying Russ wasn't deserving, he was. I'm saying using "BUT TRIPLE DOUBLEZ!" as the only metric for why one player is better than another is lazy, because a triple double alone doesn't tell you that. If I tell you "one player had a triple double and another didn't" and ask you to evaluate which player had a better game, you couldn't even begin to tell me, because knowing simply that a guy had a triple double doesn't tell you enough,
You are missing my point.
ryutaro's mama
Member
No, you are using an extreme example, an outlier, to prove that the triple double is meaningless. I am saying, historically, MOST triple doubles have a markedly high impact on a game.
Generally speaking, it isn't some guy shooting 5-20 to score 10 points and squeak by. If it is, that person usually rightfully gets ridiculed.
Put it this way, we saw that when Russ left the games in the playoffs vs. HOU that leads would instantly disappear. That team was hot garbage with him not on the floor. So to point to what you point to to discredit his ACTUAL efforts as meaningless, feels agenda based.
MugiwaraCole
Member
You're arguing triple doubles don't tell the whole story (obviously) about Russell?
None of these arguments actually work for him.