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[jph139]

It's weird - feels like #1 was more of a "bonus issue" that leads into the various one-shots and plot threads while #0 was the actual inception of the event. Weird that they numbered them that way.

As an issue it wasn't great, but as a status quo I'm really interested. The resistance seems sort of nebulous and generic (and Hawkeye at the leader, bleh), but the conniving HYDRA Council should be fun. I really want to see some stories with the HYDRA Avengers, though... I'm kind of disappointed that there doesn't seem to be a one-shot or anything focusing on them? Would love to see how those personalities bounce off each other.

It's no Secret Wars but, I mean, that was a once-in-a-lifetime event, so it'd be hard to top.

Oh and i like how like none of the characters on the cover even show up. I think Ironheart (who's WAY in the back) is the only one, other than Captain Marvel who's barely more than a cameo.

 

[The Silver]

I actually want to read the tie ins which is unprecedented for me(Secret Wars was very different from the usual tie ins).

lol at the Hydra council, they brought out every evil conspiracy classic, fucking mind control flouride and chemtrails.

boy that opening in the school was extremely similar to the school segment in Agents of Shield.

what the fuck is that Superior Octopus, haven't been reading Spider-Man at all, where's Peter?

 

[Deadly]

what the fuck is that Superior Octopus, haven't been reading Spider-Man at all, where's Peter?

Apparently, after clone conspiracy, he went to an old base of his to avoid dieing and got invited into Hydra and he made that suit.

I'm sad how his character seems to have regressed. I mean that's twice he realizes Spider-Man is the better person than him but nope gotta go bad guy on him again.

 

[kswiston]

I'm sad how his character seems to have regressed. I mean that's twice he realizes Spider-Man is the better person than him but nope gotta go bad guy on him again.

This is the biggest drag when it comes to reading Big 2 comics. You know that, no matter how much characterization Magneto gets, and how often he becomes an X-Men, someone will eventually decide that he needs to be a two-dimensional villain again.

Good characters turning heel are similarly always destined to be redeemed in the future as well. The only permanent changes come to minor characters, and sometimes not even then.

 

[Sinatar]

what the fuck is that Superior Octopus, haven't been reading Spider-Man at all, where's Peter?

It was the end result of the Clone Conspiracy event. Doc Ock was working with Ben/Jackal and made a perfect clone body of Parker without any of the issues the other clones had, then Doc Ock stole that body for himself.

So he's a Spider-person again.

 

[tkscz]

It was the end result of the Clone Conspiracy event. Doc Ock was working with Ben/Jackal and made a perfect clone body of Parker without any of the issues the other clones had, then Doc Ock stole that body for himself.

So he's a Spider-person again.

I swear Marvel goes out of it's way to make sure I don't want to go back to their stuff.

 

[JC Lately]

Apparently, after clone conspiracy, he went to an old base of his to avoid dieing and got invited into Hydra and he made that suit.

I'm sad how his character seems to have regressed. I mean that's twice he realizes Spider-Man is the better person than him but nope gotta go bad guy on him again.

Well in fairness this version of Doc Ock was based on where he was mentally just before the Spider-Verse event. He hasn't learned the truths about himself that his "Superior Spider-Man" phase would eventually come to learn. So I can buy the regression in this case.

On SE #1: I'm not clear on a couple of things, maybe I just missed it on my tiny phone screen. How long has Hydra been running things since Cap's take over in issue 0? So many everyday people seem to be fully accepting their rule right out the gate. At first I suspected Cosmic Cube shenanigans, but then Madame Hydra says they're still looking for it?

 

[Aizo]

So back in SamCap issue 7 when Rogers is almost killed by Crossbone (I think) in the bowling alley, he thinks about his death and accepts it. Is this a genuine feeling, being proud of everything he, Bucky, and Sam have done? I haven't started Secret Empire, so maybe it'll make sense when I do.

 

[jph139]

So back in SamCap issue 7 when Rogers is almost killed by Crossbone (I think) in the bowling alley, he thinks about his death and accepts it. Is this a genuine feeling, being proud of everything he, Bucky, and Sam have done? I haven't started Secret Empire, so maybe it'll make sense when I do.

That was before he's restored by the Cosmic Cube, so he's still Good Cap. He's either legitimately an American hero or is still "asleep" at this point, depending on how the Cosmic Cube fuckery shakes out.

So yeah, that's genuine.

 

[Aizo]

That was before he's restored by the Cosmic Cube, so he's still Good Cap. He's either legitimately an American hero or is still "asleep" at this point, depending on how the Cosmic Cube fuckery shakes out.

So yeah, that's genuine.

The most confusing part about reality shifting in the Marvel universe is that you can't tell what changed and what stayed the same before the shift. I should assume that the only things that changed are those they explicitly show, and everything else is the same as I remember it?

 

[Sandfox]

Well in fairness this version of Doc Ock was based on where he was mentally just before the Spider-Verse event. He hasn't learned the truths about himself that his "Superior Spider-Man" phase would eventually come to learn. So I can buy the regression in this case.

On SE #1: I'm not clear on a couple of things, maybe I just missed it on my tiny phone screen. How long has Hydra been running things since Cap's take over in issue 0? So many everyday people seem to be fully accepting their rule right out the gate. At first I suspected Cosmic Cube shenanigans, but then Madame Hydra says they're still looking for it?

There was a time skip, but we weren't given a time. In regards to the acceptance thing it's explained that

Spoiler

Hydra did some to the water supply in order to brainwash everyone.

 

[BigDes]

This is the biggest drag when it comes to reading Big 2 comics. You know that, no matter how much characterization Magneto gets, and how often he becomes an X-Men, someone will eventually decide that he needs to be a two-dimensional villain again.

Good characters turning heel are similarly always destined to be redeemed in the future as well. The only permanent changes come to minor characters, and sometimes not even then.

yep

Like, I'm finding Doom's struggle to atone and redeem himself constantly clashing with his own impatience and arrogance a fantastic read but I know in a couple of years time he's going to be back taking about himself in the third person and blaming everything on Reed again.

 

[jph139]

The most confusing part about reality shifting in the Marvel universe is that you can't tell what changed and what stayed the same before the shift. I should assume that the only things that changed are those they explicitly show, and everything else is the same as I remember it?

Yeah it's... rough. The fact we don't actually know which universe is "real" doesn't help.

Right now, though, you can assume that everything that happened between WWII and "today" is as it was written. Captain America wakes up from the ice with memories of fighting for the Allies in WWII, and continues on as a paragon of justice up until Captain America: Steve Rogers #1. For all of those stories, as far as Steve Rogers knows, he's spent his entire life as an America-loving, HYDRA-hating superhero.

 

[Parallax]

The most confusing part about reality shifting in the Marvel universe is that you can't tell what changed and what stayed the same before the shift. I should assume that the only things that changed are those they explicitly show, and everything else is the same as I remember it?

Yep. With Hydra being a cabal and all they only let you know what they want you to know.

 

[The Silver]

Speaking of Doom I wonder what he's doing, hope he's just in the darkforce so I don't have to wonder why he isn't fighting Hydra(obviously only if he doesn't show up in this event)

Well I guess Ultimate Reed could've also done something to him, Infamous Iron Man has to be currently taking place before any of this Secret Empire stuff.

 

[mreddie]

Speaking of Doom I wonder what he's doing, hope he's just in the darkforce so I don't have to wonder why he isn't fighting Hydra(obviously only if he doesn't show up in this event)

Well I guess Ultimate Reed could've also done something to him, Infamous Iron Man has to be currently taking place before any of this Secret Empire stuff.

Also Punisher, I heard he may have something for the New World mini but I wonder he shouldn't be taking this bullshit.

 

[Sandfox]

Speaking of Doom I wonder what he's doing, hope he's just in the darkforce so I don't have to wonder why he isn't fighting Hydra(obviously only if he doesn't show up in this event)

Well I guess Ultimate Reed could've also done something to him, Infamous Iron Man has to be currently taking place before any of this Secret Empire stuff.

Doom will probably show up in the Avengers tie-in and whenever they appear in the main book.

 

[Sinatar]

Doom is currently a Bendis character, so whatever he's doing, it will make absolutely no fucking sense within the context of the rest of the event.

 

[Sandfox]

Doom is currently a Bendis character, so whatever he's doing, it will make absolutely no fucking sense within the context of the rest of the event.

The Bendis Iron Man books aren't tying in.

 

[Moggelicious]

I'm so fed up with Marvel screwing up the World and its heroes/plot/mythos every fifth minute. So I cant really enjoy Secret Empire just because I know it will be like Marvel Now Ultra Hyper edition 5.3 efter this event.

I really hope it(Secret Empire) gets better and the status quo stays balanced for a while after this, just keep it good.

 

[Napoleonthechimp]

Here (http://bookriot.com/2017/05/05/no-marvel-were-out-of-patience/) is some more anti-Secret Empire bullshit posted from people who likely haven't read the preceding comic books and likely never will.

My response to someone who posted the article on facebook:

After Secret Wars the entire multiverse was reshaped by Reed Richards but left to unfold a little chaotically giving rise to this version of Captain "Steve Rogers but not really the Steve Rogers we knew" America. The version that people knew was crushed by a SHIELD Helicarrier alongside Tony Stark. But you know... no one has the patience to see how it'll all pan out so we've got this ridiculous drama created by people who haven't read the preceding comic books.

The whole thing is interesting and makes a lot of sense when seen within the context of years worth of stories. But apparently no one has time for multi-year long arcs. Which is a shame because they can be brilliant (Jason Aarons' run on Thor has been magnificent).

 

[Kurdel]

Secret Empire #2 came out today and it was pretty good.

Last page shows

Spoiler

a bearded disheveled Steve Rogers saying he is trying to get home. He also saved a woman running away from snake people.

 

[SENPAIatLARGE]

All the people that went nuts and burned copies are a bunch of godamn jabroni marks.

 

[Mr. Poolman]

So you mean comic readers were played like a goddamn fiddle?

 

[Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!]

I hope

Spoiler

one of them isn't Ultimate Cap.

 

[Cth]

To be fair, someone pointed out..

Spoiler

..all the scene changes are labeled, except for the final one, which likely means it's taking place on the mental plane, ala Superior Spiderman.

 

[Kurdel]

To be fair, someone pointed out..

Spoiler

..all the scene changes are labeled, except for the final one, which likely means it's taking place on the mental plane, ala Superior Spiderman.

Ah didn't catch that!

 

[caliph95]

To be fair, someone pointed out..

Spoiler

..all the scene changes are labeled, except for the final one, which likely means it's taking place on the mental plane, ala Superior Spiderman.

good point

 

[gaiadyne]

Gonna Have to update the OP
http://www.cbr.com/secret-empire-10-issues-marvel/

 

[Napoleonthechimp]

Do you mind not spoiling things like that?

 

[caliph95]

Yeah about that twist

 

[Dalek]

Yeah about that twist

So dumb. Talk about not getting a character.

 

[Zero-ELEC]

Yeah about that twist

dumb as all get out

 

[mreddie]

Yeah about that twist

I regret this thread. Had I known it would be this stupid, I would have waited til Legacy.

 

[gaiadyne]

I regret this thread. Had I known it would be this stupid, I would have waited til Legacy.

I had high hopes after Standoff but this...

 

[Father_Brain]

tbqh, the repulsive fact that Punisher is idolized by many people in the military and law enforcement despite being the absolute last sort of fictional character who should be seen as a role model by people in those professions kinda makes me hope they go all the way with making him an unambiguous villain, but of course they won't

 

[mreddie]

tbqh, the repulsive fact that Punisher is idolized by many people in the military and law enforcement despite being the absolute last sort of fictional character who should be seen as a role model by people in those professions kinda makes me hope they go all the way with making him an unambiguous villain, but of course they won't

I WUZ BRAINWASHED.

3 confirms Vision, Odinson and Wanda got hit with this.

 

[Palette Swap]

tbqh, the repulsive fact that Punisher is idolized by many people in the military and law enforcement despite being the absolute last sort of fictional character who should be seen as a role model by people in those professions kinda makes me hope they go all the way with making him an unambiguous villain, but of course they won't

Yeah, I kind of hoped they'd go that way with the reveal but I'm not holding my breath tbh.
It's not a bad story so far, but I'm still unsure this deserved a long, linewide event. Secret Wars was phenomenal, but generally speaking, I feel these Elseworldish stories work better on their own.

I liked Sam Wilson this week, good companion book.

 

[Sinatar]

Castle absolutely worships Steve and certainly would see the appeal of a government that deals with criminals the same way he does.

He however would not stand for what went down in Vegas. He could be undercover though, we really don't know.

 

[bengraven]

I hope

Spoiler

one of them isn't Ultimate Cap.

I have a feeling this is this.

 

[LiveFromKyoto]

I usually like murky art but in an event that involves literally every character in the universe I also like being able to clearly tell who people are. "Oh hey, it's that white guy with the square jaw and the short, rakish tousled hair!" - me, every second page of this book.

 

[caliph95]

I usually like murky art but in an event that involves literally every character in the universe I also like being able to clearly tell who people are. "Oh hey, it's that white guy with the square jaw and the short, rakish tousled hair!" - me, every second page of this book.

welcome to sorrentio

 

[LiveFromKyoto]

welcome to sorrentio

It works great in a book like Daredevil where you have a tight cast who benefit from a lot of emotional shading and noire feel. In UNIVERSE EXPLODING EVENT BOOK it's not necessarily the way to go.

 

[Parallax]

tbqh, the repulsive fact that Punisher is idolized by many people in the military and law enforcement despite being the absolute last sort of fictional character who should be seen as a role model by people in those professions kinda makes me hope they go all the way with making him an unambiguous villain, but of course they won't

with the level of torture/murder he commits, regardless on who, you would think he would be an unambiguous villain. but people love that sick shit for some reason

Castle absolutely worships Steve and certainly would see the appeal of a government that deals with criminals the same way he does.

He however would not stand for what went down in Vegas. He could be undercover though, we really don't know.

he drinks the kool aid hard, and probably spikes it, so his deranged ass would probably find some way to rationalize what happened

 

[mreddie]

Punisher with HYDRA could be symbolism of people putting law over order like police brutality, no jury, just justice and local militia but GOTTA BUILD UP THAT NEW NETFLIX SHOW SO NO ACTUAL JOINING IN, GOTTA BE BRAINWASHED.

 

[jph139]

Punisher is probably the closest Marvel has to a fascist superhero so I buy him drinking the Cap kool-aid here.

Overall the main book feels like it's sort of treading water. Like, making sandcastles in a dystopia that we all know is going to be gone in like three months?

I did like the SamCap tie-in, though. He's definitely gonna be picking up the shield again, but I don't mind the down-in-the-dumps period. Giving up on an America that seemed to mostly shrug it's shoulders and carry on after a fascist takeover? Pretty relatable sentiment.

"This whole 'We're gonna win back the country' thing? They don't want us. And the truth of it is, they maybe never did."

 

[BattleMonkey]

What the shit? Punisher is the one "hero" who has almost no ambiguous element to him when it comes to good or bad. You bad, you die. He couldn't play nice with all other heroes on multiple cross overs especially Civil War cause he couldn't stand working with villains. He turned on his own Thunderbolt team mates for even less shady shit than what Hydra does. Frank Castle is a killer, but he would NEVER work for Hydra. All the evil Hydra does and villains in their employ, Frank would be constantly killing off his own people. The whole Cap worship thing was so stupid and felt so out of place when they shoved it down our throats during Civil War, yet for decades before that Frank and Cap went against each other several times and Frank never had any type of fanboy mentality for Steve.

The Punisher is not a facist, he is unstable, but he has no interest in politics, has no agenda other than punishing those who do wrong, and does not care how the world is policed. He has his own personal mission to go out guns blazing, he would never stand by and serve for those he would kill. This is the man who put down his only "friend" for being crooked, but now we are to believe he would serve under a nazi influenced regime lead by various super villains.

 

[Sinatar]

Frank Castle is a killer, but he would NEVER work for Hydra.

If you actual spent more then 2 seconds reading this comic you'd be aware of one Dr. Faustus and any questions about how Punisher would be working for them would be answered immediately.

But please, keep melting down over nothing.

 

[Vic_Viper]

Posted in the Comics thread awhile ago but felt this would be a better place to post my theroy about Cap.

Havent read issue 3 yet of Secret Empire so not sure but what if the Captain America with Hydra is the one that is from

Spoiler

Dimension Z in Remender's Captain America run.

Not my idea mind you, I was listening to the Comics Conspiracy podcast and the host had the idea which actually makes alot of sense since in that

Spoiler

dimension

Hydra actually won. They usually dont talk about specific runs that often on the Podcast, and its called that because its the name of their store lol.

Havent read the run again since the original release so im gunna go back now. Gotta say, usually people love to hate

Spoiler

Romita Jr.

but this was one of the times their work really shined. Yes his team books like

Spoiler

Avengers, especially the Avengers vs. X-Men

event looked horrible, but his work on

Spoiler

Cap and Wolverine

looked soo good.

 

[Suzzopher]

Posted in the Comics thread awhile ago but felt this would be a better place to post my theroy about Cap.

Havent read issue 3 yet of Secret Empire so not sure but what if the Captain America with Hydra is the one that is from

Spoiler

Dimension Z in Remender's Captain America run.

Not my idea mind you, I was listening to the Comics Conspiracy podcast and the host had the idea which actually makes alot of sense since in that

Spoiler

dimension

Hydra actually won. They usually dont talk about specific runs that often on the Podcast, and its called that because its the name of their store lol.

Havent read the run again since the original release so im gunna go back now. Gotta say, usually people love to hate

Spoiler

Romita Jr.

but this was one of the times their work really shined. Yes his team books like

Spoiler

Avengers, especially the Avengers vs. X-Men

event looked horrible, but his work on

Spoiler

Cap and Wolverine

looked soo good.

I had that conversation with a friend last week.

I think we'd be giving Marvel too much credit if that's how this plays out.