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Shining Armor And Fine Words... The Official NO MORE HEROES Thread
- Thread starter John Harker
- Start date
Kamakazie!
Member
Pre-ordered mine afew weeks ago. The games have started to roll in now. Got Mercury Meltdown yesterday and Zack & Wiki arrived today. NMH next week and still got Pikmin to get through on rental. Oh and its bloody exam period here!
Not to mention needing to fully finish STALKER and Crysis as well as start Bioshock. Arggghhh. So many games!
Not to mention needing to fully finish STALKER and Crysis as well as start Bioshock. Arggghhh. So many games!
Haunted One said:
I call PR BS. The earliest videos of the game had blood therefore in my mind that was the original version. The cutscenes are geared toward the uncensored version, then altered later too
I can't imagine Ubisoft was all like - "Yes we will publish your game but can you add more decaps and splitting? "
Suda51 said:
This doesn't make sense does it? First of all, how does the game play better simply because it lacks blood and automatically feeds coins to you faster? How does the speed and timing of the action differ between each version? This might make sense if the coins charge special moves in the game or something, but as far as I know that isn't the case - correct me if I'm wrong. If Suda means that he did the final balancing on the Japanese version and fine-tuned everything to a greater height of perfection, why not correct the NA version too?
Secondly, if the Japanese version does play better, why add a detrimental level of violence to the American game just for the sake of it? Plenty of bloodless games sell well in the US, and taking choice away from consumers who are stuck with the 'wrong' version simply breeds resentment which potentially kills sales. In Japan the violence is a legal issue, but not in Europe or North America. Devil May Cry is almost totally bloodless these days, despite the first game being pretty gory. It doesn't seem to hurt North American sales of the franchise, and the game is designed from the ground up with the sensibilities of all regions in mind. But if the definitive version of NMH is debatable, there is no reason not to include both options on the Euro and NA releases unless you really want one region to play the game with blood.
The blood wasn't added to the original build after the fact - it was present in all the early footage prior to the announcement that it would be removed for Japan. And according to posts earlier in the thread, the cut scenes have also been censored. This suggests to me that Suda compromised on the blood, and though he appreciates the censored version for what it is, given the choice he would have kept the best of both worlds: a balanced bloody version in which the player wins his coins instantly. That, or the coins don't matter, and he's reaching for reasons to hype the censored game.
No they didn't.D-X said:
The only video that had blood like the US version, was the very original trailer of Heroes that was posted by theWiire (a USA website). This showed Helter Skelter being decapitated. All following footage, including all the Suda51 vids and TGS trailers, were the Japanese version. The first actual in-game footage with blood that we saw, were the videos that IGN (again, US version) put up.
John Harker
Definitely doesn't make things up as he goes along.
Anyone know if NWS carries third party games earlier too?
Would LOVE to get this on Monday... I'm off work....
Would LOVE to get this on Monday... I'm off work....
Stormbringer
Member
So I just "made" this basic ringtone from the short sample of the NMH's theme available on the official site, and I though I'd share with you guys, given that a while ago I came across people mentioning that they'd love to have a No More Heroes ringtone for their slick phone...
But yeah, basically, it's just an appropriately cut version of the sample that I use as a ringtone, but if your phone is compatible you can use it too !
Or I guess we could also wait for the NMH ost to come out in a few days to make an even longer, heavier, and potentially better version...but I think this one is good enough for me.
Anyway, show the NMH love <3 <3
But yeah, basically, it's just an appropriately cut version of the sample that I use as a ringtone, but if your phone is compatible you can use it too !
Or I guess we could also wait for the NMH ost to come out in a few days to make an even longer, heavier, and potentially better version...but I think this one is good enough for me.
Anyway, show the NMH love <3 <3
Yeah so they did all these decapitating and splitting a person in half animations and moves and thought AFTERWARDS that "hey we should add more gore to the US-version".
US-version would be the last version they would "add" more guts and gore.
Just face it we have been fucked up the ass... (we Euro/Japanese people) [and for no sane reason!]
THIS!
US-version would be the last version they would "add" more guts and gore.
Just face it we have been fucked up the ass... (we Euro/Japanese people) [and for no sane reason!]
THIS!
zoukka said:
The blood and gore for the US version has been planned beforehand, but it doesn't seem like the US version was the one they were actually focusing on. The blood was added later on. It's not censorship. It's just a decision of Suda to add in extra violence for the US version, since he thinks it'll be more successful then.
If anyone "fucked us up the ass", then it's by Suda himself. He should've made it an option to switch between the two, IMO. But hey, at least we're getting it "just" a month after US release.
Dascu said:
The first in game footage had decaps and splits and its here:
http://uk.media.wii.ign.com/media/827/827358/vids_5.html
(GDC 2007 Trailer (March 9, 2007))
Therefore this was the original, therefore the Japanese/Euro version are censored.
Dascu said:
Well this is the first version of the game that I saw so therefore I still see it as the definitive version. Yes the blood isn't as extreme as it is now, but it was there and so was the decaps and splits. It just seems easier to build the US version and then work back from it - not the other way around, I would assume the high and low way of holding the beam katana would make it evident which game is the complete version.
This whole situation bothers me - I want to support this game but why should I wait longer, pay more for and receive what I consider to be the inferior version?
D-X said:
Hmm, doubt it. We know for a fact that the US version was finished only after the Japanese one (interview around NMH's Japanese launch). The general point remains: it's not really censorship if it was decided from the start that the US version would have more blood than the Japanese one.
As long as you are getting it, then it's fine. But the people that are refusing to buy any version just for this percieved "censorship" is idiotic.
Dascu said:
My problem is that I've been following this game from the start and ASSUMED that we'd get the US version. Now I'm not a huge fan of blood in games, but in this case as witnessed in the cutscenes, the violence does make a significant difference. If we can handle Killer 7 we can handle this. I'm not sure at what point the decision was made that Europe would receive the Japanese version but I can't help feel the publisher felt pressure from the whole Manhunt 2 banning.
I'm just hugely annoyed with the whole situation. I'm still looking for a way to get my hands on and be able to play the US version on a UK machine.
As long as you realize it's "inferior" only because you perceive it that way.zoukka said:
I frankly haven't even seen any media of the US version, and I'd be quite satisifed if the Japanese version (the ten minutes of which I watched on Gamersyde) was what we received. I'll find out what differences await me next week.
I imagine it's a result of Rising Star being a subsidiary of Marvelous:D-X said:
Dascu said:
I don't think there is a 'main' version of No More Heroes. This situation is most probably just like Ninja Gaiden Sigma and countless other games - Team Ninja removed decapitations for the Japanese build due to the ratings restrictions; Grasshopper removed decapitations, dismemberment and blood. The difference is that in the case of No Mores Heroes the changes were so drastic that they required significant additions to the Japanese build of the game - the ash effects for example. This is why we're talking about separate and distinct Japanese and American versions of NMH when we typically view censored builds as the exact same thing with certain elements removed. This issue is usually quite cut and dry - however, since the bloodless NMH can get away with calling itself different due to added ash, an argument can be made that it is not lacking anything at all. And, sensibly, Suda and Rising Star are making such an argument.
More importantly, censored Japanese games usually ship uncensored to every territory besides Japan (and Germany, and Australia), so the 'definitive version' is never up for debate. More explicit content equates to the full game; less to a game that's been cut down. End of story. The problem is that Rising Star is bringing the Japanese version to Europe, and since they claim that the decision is not due to a fear of ratings boards, they have to explain their actions. Which is why we're hearing things like "the Japanese version has more 'pure action' gameplay, blood is just tacked on for the Yanks, Europeans are getting the true Japanese experience, both versions are equally good, etc."
If it wasn't for Rising Star's unfounded fear of the BBFC following the Manhunt fiasco, this would be business as usual - most Western countries enjoy their games as the developers intended; Japanese gamers suffer censorship. If Ubisoft was publishing in Europe and if there was no ash effect, I doubt Suda would be making these claims.
John Harker
Definitely doesn't make things up as he goes along.
Ubisoft making up for Red Steel?
I'll take it. With pleasure.
I'll take it. With pleasure.
if i recall correctly, the game was originally never supposed to be very violent. it was only after Manhunt 2's stuff that Suda actually said the game was going to be violent, so i don't think whining over the "censored" version is really very productive. sure there are parts that focus alot on the violence of it all, but it wouldn't bother me in the least if the black ash version was released in the US as well.
Cannot wait for this game, but the absolutely zero amount of advertising is pissing me off. Suda sparked this recent "mature games dont sell on Wii." Meanwhile no one even knows these titles exist in the first place. I mean Ubisoft advertised the shit outta Red Steel and that wasnt a very good game and yet it still sold over a million.
They have a good game on their hands, no matter if Suda's games are niche, and theyre just sending it out without any support, and when it doesnt sell everyones going to say its cause the Wii only has casuals who wont buy Mature games.
They have a good game on their hands, no matter if Suda's games are niche, and theyre just sending it out without any support, and when it doesnt sell everyones going to say its cause the Wii only has casuals who wont buy Mature games.
D-X said:
No, I have an American and a Japanese Wii.
As for the censorship. There was not one time when I was playing this game that I felt I was missing out on anything. There were 2 or 3 times in the entire game where I thought the cutscene might have been bloodier originally. But unlike Killer 7 this game is not about the gore. It's not trying to shock you. It is an over-the-top action game.
If you were someone who played Zelda and thought "Man, I wish there was more blood in this" then yes, you will be disappointed. But if you see it as an action game (which it is), you are going to love it.
I saw the videos of the "uncensored" Destroyman cut scene. And frankly
the blood spurts coming out from the place where you run him through with the beam katana
No plot element or voice over has been changed. It was one of the most enjoyable games I played last year and along with SMG it is my favorite game on the Wii. At no time did I feel my experience was ruined.
But go ahead and not buy it. You will send a clear message. Unfortunately that message is not:
"We object to game censorship"
it will come across as:
"We refuse to buy quality games for the Wii, please give us more shovelware and brain-training"
Watching one of the GameTrailers videos of the US version, I see both good and bad to the blood and gore. It's so comically over the top it kinda meshes with over the top acting and premise. But hell, the blood spray got in the way of the camera at times ;P and at others it's a bit out of place.Vinnk said:
pulga
Banned
Hey, J-Gaffers, I asked about this way back on the first page but no one listened. Is the Helter Skelter fight still in the game? The way the first video way back unfolded, it seemed he would be your first opponent. I found it odd that there's never been an in game shot or movie of this "first" fight, so a simple yes or no will suffice. 
pulga said:Hey, J-Gaffers, I asked about this way back on the first page but no one listened. Is the Helter Skelter fight still in the game? The way the first video way back unfolded, it seemed he would be your first opponent. I found it odd that there's never been an in game shot or movie of this "first" fight, so a simple yes or no will suffice.
I beat the game, though I haven't unlocked everything and
I did not fight Helter Skelter. That fight (probably the same footage from that first preview) was shown in a flashback, but he was referred to as "the drifter". As I said I didn't unlock everything but it seems unlikely he will make another appearance. The "Shining armor and fine words" speech dosen't seem to be in the final game.
Vinnk said:
You have some good points there, but I still wont take the blame for developers/publishers who do not think it`s important enough to serve Europeans as well as everybody else. And NMH is on the mild side of this problem.
I searched info on the modding of Wii and it`s still very risque and the benefits are limited. So I guess I`ll either have to wait x amount of time till I get my hands on the US-version or just tolerate the dump and buy the freaking game.
zoukka said:
Well the way I see Europe is getting the same version Japan got. And it is a great game.
I am really not trying to argue with you because I can understand why you are upset. I just hope you and other don't miss your chance to play this game because of that disappointment.
One person in this thread mentioned that he did in fact want this game because of the blood/gore. In his case, yeah don't get the PAL or JPN version. But for anyone who just wants a fun action title that is practically a love note to the hardcore gamers you won't fine a better game on the Wii.
I don't want to knock you or your opinions. It just looks like you were excited about this game, and I hope you get to play it.
sonicspear64
Member
It runs at 60 fps with like one or two enemies in an area. It seems like the fps is going to be in between 25 and 60 for the whole game.Teknoman said:
John Harker
Definitely doesn't make things up as he goes along.
Using some SUPER SOPHISTICATED predictive mathematical equations, I have determined that NMH will sell ~75,000 units in the US.
Anyone else wanna take a stab at it?
Anyone else wanna take a stab at it?
sonicspear64 said:
Hmm well in that case they should've just shot for a smooth constant 30fps. Eh it doesnt look like the game would be pushing the system THAT hard not to maintain a consistent framerate. Guess it turned out like the older shoot em ups, where slowdown actually helps sometimes.
Teknoman said:
I remember reading something along those lines - that the slowdown doesn't hamper the game so much as provide a stylish effect, albeit an accidental one. I would normally prefer to see a game shoot for a constant 30fps, but if NMH pulls of the inoffensive slowdown I'm very glad I'll be able to watch 60fps animations some of the time.
Vinnk said:
To be clear, I was always going to play the game, with or without the gore. But I couldn't stomach spending full price on a product I felt had been gimped sight unseen - it's the difference between an awesome rental and a frustrated purchase. To refer to your Zelda example - I didn't miss blood in the slightest. However if I'd seen footage of gory Moblin evisceration during development, I would feel just as resentful of the final game if it had been removed for the sake of ratings boards or other people's sensibilities. It's a two-pronged psychological effect: I enjoy bloody games so reneging on red stuff makes me bitter; but more importantly I have a huge problem with censorship in all its forms. Of course we'll never know whether or not No More Heroes has been truly censored, but my posts above indicate which side of that debate I subscribe to.
Regardless, my preference for the NA blood effects and phobia of censorship shouldn't eclipse the unmitigated awesomeness of NMH for anyone else. I would have less fun with the Euro version due to my personal gaming tastes, but I'd still have a blast. And if I was sufficiently amazed by the rental, of course I'd buy the game. But I won't send mixed messages to publishers. After renting Manhunt 2, I'd have still bought it even without its gore as one of the few people who appreciated what the devs were trying to do with the gameplay; but given that the censorship also took away key gameplay elements (the stealth kill rating system) that robbed the title of all challenge and replay value, there was nothing left to support. I will buy RE4.5 if it ever shows up, I'll buy Okami, I would probably buy Sadness (lol) and because I live in NA, I'll buy NMH day one. But games I resent will be a much harder sell, and I won't buy software just to support certain developers or to vote for anything with an M certificate on the Wii.
Dash Kappei
Not actually that important
Teknoman said:
guys, please confirm this.
Imperial Hot
Banned
When do the reviews go up? I wonder how well the reviewers recieved the game.
In the Wii-k in review podcast Matt and Bozon predicted that No More Heroes will sell 60/75 thousand copies and it seems people here aren't expecting the game to sell a lot either. I understand that it's a Suda 51 game, that his games ''don't sell'' and that No More heroes is anything but a game that has a universal appeal but is there really no chance at all that this game actually does much better than ''60/75 thousand''? Rising Star is planning a tv-ad-campaign for the UK (Europe?) and view this as a ''big product'' (don't remember the actual wording used in the interview) so at least they expect it to do decent numbers, no? Why spend money on TV-ads, which a lot of games just don't get, if you don't expect a game to do significantly better than Suda's last game? Hasn't this game gotten at least some hype that goes beyond gaming message boards? Bad sales won't make me enjoy the game less but dammit people should buy a game if it's good.
Ubisoft is not Rising Star, and they haven't advertised it at all. It could very well push more units with the Brawl delay (when I went to preorder today, the EB manager mentioned he was just going to buy it and see how it was since he didn't have anything else to play), but without a hint of an ad, it will only sell to us and people who walk into the store and decide to buy a random game that they see on the shelf.Sule said:
If it gets near 6 figures, I'll be impressed.
So stupid. I maintain that this game would be a system seller if some advertising weight was put behind it. Throw enough money into an good ad campaign, and even niche software will sell decently. Most of the Wii owning casuals with whom I'm acquainted have never heard of NMH, but I know that every one of them will buy it in a heartbeat when they check out my copy. And would buy it sooner if their TVs fed them some footage.