Support NeoGAF

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

Attributes and other traditional RPG elements we take for granted nowadays are just a means to an end. If there's a different way to accomplish the same things - and there are plenty of possible ways to communicate character diversification and progression, many more natural than the traditional numeric format - then that's great. Our characters and learning are not exactly mapped to hard numbers in real life.

 

[XtremeRampage]

I wonder how Bethesda will handle the border transition and player attempting to cross it. The infamous "You can't go that way. Go back." ?

 

[Mr_Brit]

I wonder how Bethesda will handle the border transition and player attempting to cross it. The infamous "You can't go that way. Go back." ?

http://h-5.abload.de/img/skyrim20map20on20wallhm7v.jpg[/ IMG][/QUOTE]
Errrmmm, mountains?

 

[XtremeRampage]

Errrmmm, mountains?

I was actually thinking of some of the mountain passes, like the one between Windhelm and Blacklight in Morrowind. Or one that supposedly exist (?) north of Bruma...

 

[Ihya]

If this has solid thief sneakery gameplay mechanics I'm 100% sold.

 

[NBtoaster]

I prefer the line of text. Better than invisible walls around mountains which still leave question as to whether there is a way through.

If they do use invisible walls, the design of the area better make it so clear that you can derive "this is the end of the map. Go away" without the game explicitly telling you. Unlike New Vegas, where your map includes a whole chunk of non-gameplay area, and some places around the edges of the gameplay space look like you can jump over, but can't.

 

[maniac-kun]

Going to Morrowind in Oblivion

 

[Dead Man]

Going to Morrowind in Oblivion

:lol Never seen that one before.

 

[Night_Trekker]

Just use mountain ranges (with invisible walls at the top in case someone glitches their way up them) for the borders lined with mountains and endless, empty woodlands (or whatever the dominant local flora is) for the other borders, a la Oblivion. I would be fine with that.

 

[Blue Ninja]

I think they'll either use a system similar to New Vegas (though I fucking hope the invisible walls won't be so obnoxious as in NV, not to mention the playable area was only half of the freakin' map), or the tried-and-true "you can't go that way, turn back"-system.

 

[MrBig]

Can't believe I missed this. Looks fantastic.

 

[Zoso]

I thought this walking animation comparison was interesting. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKCerijbsW8

The trailer had such quick cuts that it was hard to get a good idea of the animations. From what I can tell I'd say it's a big improvement over Oblivion. But the big question is can we finally walk diagonally?


I finally took the time to read most of the previews. They were overwhelmingly positive, which I suppose is common for previews, but I was expecting more criticism. Only real complaints I came across were that the melee combat seemed really similar to Oblivion and a NPC gave a weak reaction to his buddy being stealthily killed with an arrow. As great as Skyrim seems, I fully expect a lot of the same problems from Oblivion, Fallout 3, & Morrowind to carry over. But then again, they've already proved something I thought impossible for Bethesda - the art direction of those character models looks fantastic!

I also noticed that in the Q&A Todd Howard seemed to give a lot of answers similar to "We're still messing around with it." in regards to mounts, town economy, & other things. I know they still have 7 months, but it seems like they should know these things by now. I suppose he's just being careful not to promise things that might get cut.


Overall I'm very satisfied with what I'm hearing. Losing attributes does not matter to me. Losing birth signs is a bit of a bummer, but more for novelty reasons rather than them having any real impact on the game. I'd much rather have perks than either of those. I'm really looking forward to this and have been replaying Oblivion in anticipation. I plan on replaying Morrowind this summer. Long live Elder Scrolls!

 

[Throwaway123456789]

I thought this walking animation comparison was interesting. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKCerijbsW8

The trailer had such quick cuts that it was hard to get a good idea of the animations. From what I can tell I'd say it's a big improvement over Oblivion. But the big question is can we finally walk diagonally?


I finally took the time to read most of the previews. They were overwhelmingly positive, which I suppose is common for previews, but I was expecting more criticism. Only real complaints I came across were that the melee combat seemed really similar to Oblivion and a NPC gave a weak reaction to his buddy being stealthily killed with an arrow.

You can walk diagonally now, and the 3rd person animations were tons better than those found in earlier Bethesda games. Pretty much on par with most games out there.

And yeah, the arrow thing was pretty funny (Howard probably disagrees). There were two guards in a dungeon speaking. One of them were semi-hidden in the shadows, and the other not. When the tester shot the one in the shadows, the other one stopped talking and shouted "I know I heard something!!!" and slowly started walking around - not giving a crap about his fellow guard that lay dead before him. I'm hoping they sort out that black/white interpretation of where the shadows are and not.

 

[Dr. Chaos]

Looking forward to seeing how the stealth mechanics have changed and improved. Sneaky throat slitting in the gameplay trailer got me all frisky.

I'm not expecting to be able to stealthily crawl up a dragon's back and pierce his skull with a mystical broadsword in his sleep but daggers and sneaks in particular need a major killing upgrade. Theres nothing more emasculating for an Assassin than silently creeping into a shopkeep's home, stabbing him in the head with him proceeding to stand up, then use psychic powers to alert the law and have the entire city guard raping me in 30 seconds flat.

 

[Zoso]

You can walk diagonally now, and the 3rd person animations were tons better than those found in earlier Bethesda games. Pretty much on par with most games out there.

And yeah, the arrow thing was pretty funny (Howard probably disagrees). There were two guards in a dungeon speaking. One of them were semi-hidden in the shadows, and the other not. When the tester shot the one in the shadows, the other one stopped talking and shouted "I know I heard something!!!" and slowly started walking around - not giving a crap about his fellow guard that lay dead before him. I'm hoping they sort out that black/white interpretation of where the shadows are and not.

Thanks for chiming in. I'm really glad to hear about the improved 3rd person.

That stealth situation seems pretty common in a lot of games. Even in Splinter Cell & Metal Gear Solid games I've encountered that exact example of stupid AI. It might be a slight improvement over Oblivion though - A lot of times NPCs wouldn't even react when someone was stealthily killed. A dead body in the street and nobody cares.

 

[Mega Man]

Ahhhhh why does there have to be giant spiders? Seriously gives me the creeps... can i option them out? :-/

 

[riceandbeans]

Looking forward to seeing how the stealth mechanics have changed and improved. Sneaky throat slitting in the gameplay trailer got me all frisky.

I'm not expecting to be able to stealthily crawl up a dragon's back and pierce his skull with a mystical broadsword in his sleep but daggers and sneaks in particular need a major killing upgrade. Theres nothing more emasculating for an Assassin than silently creeping into a shopkeep's home, stabbing him in the head with him proceeding to stand up, then use psychic powers to alert the law and have the entire city guard raping me in 30 seconds flat.

Yeah, they need to fix that shit. Almost ruined Oblivion for me. I made the mistake of going ahead and killing all the guards that tried to arrest me, and then every town I stepped in, I was getting hoarded by guards instantly. Not fun.

 

[Emitan]

Ahhhhh why does there have to be giant spiders? Seriously gives me the creeps... can i option them out? :-/

I am going to learn how to mod them out if no one else does it first. I'm not playing this game until there aren't any spiders.

 

[Alucrid]

I am going to learn how to mod them out if no one else does it first. I'm not playing this game until there aren't any spiders.

I'm scared of spiders too, but c'mon. I can deal with virtual ones and they're pretty much in every WRPG ever.

 

[Emitan]

I'm scared of spiders too, but c'mon. I can deal with virtual ones and they're pretty much in every WRPG ever.

I seriously can't handle spiders. At all. I'm not joking that I won't play it unless I take them out.

 

[Dr. Chaos]

I seriously can't handle spiders. At all. I'm not joking that I won't play it unless I take them out.

I'm the same way about octopus and squid.

Seriously, the first time Bethesda starts implementing giant tentacled cthulu looking sea terrors underwater in the elder scrolls, I'm going to shit in my pants.

 

[Mega Man]

I'm scared of spiders too, but c'mon. I can deal with virtual ones and they're pretty much in every WRPG ever.

But they don't usually have drool dripping from their giant hairy fangs... I can take the Zelda spiders, and what not. IDK bout these HD arachnids

 

[riceandbeans]

I'm scared of spiders too, but c'mon. I can deal with virtual ones and they're pretty much in every WRPG ever.

It's not exactly an overreaction. Some people have arachnophobia to the point where even fake ones cause problems.

 

[cluto]

When did I walk into pre-school-GAF?

 

[Emitan]

When did I walk into pre-school-GAF?

 

[Snuggles]

^ Haha, love that pic.

I'm terrified of bugs in general, but I like when they're in games like this since it gives me an opportunity to murder them. I'm gonna murder the shit out of those spiders.

 

[Azriell]

I liked the way Crackdown did borders. If you swam out into the ocean far enough, eventually you stop making any progress. You can't tell you aren't getting anywhere unless you turn the camera back and look at the island. Thinking back, I think maybe you were actually warped back a short distance once you reached the threshold, but if that was the case again you couldn't tell unless you were looking at the island (or maybe the moon, idk it's been a long time).

I'd be happy if they made the borders very obvious, but not impassable, and then on the other side of the borders had dense forests or something that would let you walk forever while only actually letting you get a finite distance away from the play area.

 

[truly101]

I seriously can't handle spiders. At all. I'm not joking that I won't play it unless I take them out.

So no Dragon Age 2 for you. There are spiders in the most illogical places in that game, its how you can tell its a cash in

 

[Emitan]

So no Dragon Age 2 for you. There are spiders in the most illogical places in that game, its how you can tell its a cash in

I'm avoiding Dragon Age 2 for entirely different reasons.

 

[Im_So_Pringles]

It's times like these whenever it would be really, really nice to have a time machine.

11/11/11 is shaping up to be a great day. Final Minecraft update and Skyrim? Hooo boy.

 

[Zoso]

New Todd Howard interview. Mostly the same information, but he mentions there will be different types of jails and teases at a new crime system. Also, races will come with different initial stats or powers. I didn't know these two bits of information.

http://www.ign.com/videos/2011/04/25/skyrim-the-elder-scrolls-evolved-video



I've never tried to shoot my father in Fallout 3, but I'll be sure to next time I play it.

 

[Gareth Bale]

New Todd Howard interview. Mostly the same information, but he mentions there will be different types of jails and teases at a new crime system. Also, races will come with different initial stats or powers. I didn't know these two bits of information.

http://www.ign.com/videos/2011/04/25/skyrim-the-elder-scrolls-evolved-video



I've never tried to shoot my father in Fallout 3, but I'll be sure to next time I play it.

"This is the first time we've done an Elder Scrolls that isn't on a new console. We talked about doing that with this game... waiting"

Thank fuck you didn't. Also, the guy who has to write the guide for this game is fucked when it comes to figuring out what is dynamic and what isn't.

 

[Kalnos]

It's times like these whenever it would be really, really nice to have a time machine.

11/11/11 is shaping up to be a great day. Final Minecraft update and Skyrim? Hooo boy.

There's a reason that the Minecraft update is on 11/11/11. It's because notch will spend the next eternity playing Skyrim

 

[Clott]

They actually considered waiting till the next console cycle. I remember that was the common consensus that we weren't getting a new ES for still a few years.

 

[disappeared]

They actually considered waiting till the next console cycle. I remember that was the common consensus that we weren't getting a new ES for still a few years.

That was the general consensus almost right up to the Spike TV reveal.

 

[Door2Dawn]

This game should have co-op.

i think that would be cool :>

 

[Vicetrailia]

I love giant spiders <3 Lineage 2

 

[bananaman1234]

probably gonna get this at launch instead of a few years down the line like oblivion. hopefully mods take a while to come out so I don't spend 90% of my time tinkering with them only to get sick of the game and quit.

 

[Van Buren]

This game should have co-op.

Having co-op would take away dev time from the poetic writing and quests with dozens of options.

 

[Ickman3400]

This game should have co-op.

i think that would be cool :>

There's few ideas that are worse than this. Keep multiplayer out of my massive open world rpgs and make even more content. The mere thought of this having it makes my jaw clench up a bit.

 

[onken]

Sounds awesome as ever but not sure about levelling up happening faster than Fallout 3. Seemed damn fast in that game.

 

[Synth_floyd]

Why are people against removing attributes? The level up system from Oblivion was HORRIBLE. You basically had to game the system and spam a bunch of stupid skills in order to get those +5 bonuses. What a waste of time. Made the game feel like a chore.

I guess if you're used to playing D&D and all sorts of older RPGs then it would feel weird without having a "strength" "speed" intelligence" etc scores but really what did they actually add to the game? It's not dumbing it down at all. Just cutting out pointless stuff. Same with the "jumping" and "running" skills which were pointless in Oblivion too.

From what I'm hearing they're taking all the bad stuff about Oblivion and fixing it. As long as they fix the "scaling" of monsters and quests it's looking to be an awesome game.

 

[Grinchy]

Sounds awesome as ever but not sure about levelling up happening faster than Fallout 3. Seemed damn fast in that game.

Yeah, same here. I had to buy Brotherhood of Steel just to have more of a reason to keep going through the story. I really didn't want to crawl around dungeons for hours, killing everything in a building, if it wasn't leveling me up. I played a ton of it, though. I loved side quests and exploring.

I hope I can run around skyrim doing whatever comes my way without worrying about hitting the level cap too early...

 

[Clott]

Sounds awesome as ever but not sure about leveling up happening faster than Fallout 3. Seemed damn fast in that game.

That kind of caught my attention as well, this generation has been about of giving us constant sugar rushes and kill streaks, The game isn't boring if there isn't an explosion every 2 minutes.

 

[Emitan]

From what I'm hearing they're taking all the bad stuff about Oblivion and fixing it. As long as they fix the "scaling" of monsters and quests it's looking to be an awesome game.

If by "fix" they mean "remove", then good. Otherwise, WHAT THE HELL ARE THEY THINKING?

 

[Van Buren]

Why are people against removing attributes? The level up system from Oblivion was HORRIBLE. You basically had to game the system and spam a bunch of stupid skills in order to get those +5 bonuses. What a waste of time. Made the game feel like a chore.

I guess if you're used to playing D&D and all sorts of older RPGs then it would feel weird without having a "strength" "speed" intelligence" etc scores but really what did they actually add to the game? It's not dumbing it down at all. Just cutting out pointless stuff. Same with the "jumping" and "running" skills which were pointless in Oblivion too.

From what I'm hearing they're taking all the bad stuff about Oblivion and fixing it. As long as they fix the "scaling" of monsters and quests it's looking to be an awesome game.

Mods for oblivion showed how skills and attributes can be fixed without removing them wholesale. The Skyrim attribute removal seems to be another unfortunate chapter in Western RPG devs mistaking depth for complexity, and gutting said depth. Sure, the way they were implemented in Oblivion was not ideal, but that is not to say that they could not be improved upon in their next iteration.

 

[Synth_floyd]

How did the mods fix the skills and attributes? Skills were mostly good aside from the obvious redundant ones, but how does removing the attributes "dumb it down?" It just seems like something from RPGs that have been there for decades and people want to have it there just for the sake of having it there.

 

[Van Buren]

How did the mods fix the skills and attributes? Skills were mostly good aside from the obvious redundant ones, but how does removing the attributes "dumb it down?" It just seems like something from RPGs that have been there for decades and people want to have it there just for the sake of having it there.

There were mods which completely overhauled the underlying systems and obliterated the ill-thought out leveling mechanic in vanilla Oblivion. There were mods which rebalanced the game and addressed redundant core mechanics, and so on.

If a dev is able to remove parts of the game system while introducing something better in its place, I'm all for it. But, sadly, as in the case with Daggerfall->Morrowind and Morrowind->Oblivion, the removal of parts of the game system wasn't compensated with anything in its place and ultimately made for a less satisfying experience. The other issue is that once devs start their gutting process these days, they don't seem to know where to stop. See Mass Effect 2.

 

[isamu]

disappointing about the PC version looking almost exactly like the console versions beside higher res image and texture quality.

 

[Rokk]

disappointing about the PC version looking almost exactly like the console versions beside higher res image and texture quality.

until the deluge of mods