The thing is, if they are to add new Pokémon available in this generation, which I don't find likely, they'll need to reveal and release Volcanion soon else they will have the dreaded #721 gap in the National Pokédex with no official explanation and that'd cause issues for the uninformed.
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So besides the mysterious possible Zygarde forme, there's a new Pokemon too?
- Thread starter Boss Doggie
- Start date
burn this down
Banned
Holy shit, for real? Shows how well I remember Gen IV I guess. Sorry about that.
But I think you're misunderstanding me. I'm not talking about the ratio of old-to-new Pokemon for the National Dex, but rather for the Regional Dex. The small number of new Pokemon got compounded by the largest Regional Dex in the series. Like in Gen IV, despite all those Pokemon you listed, over half the Sinnoh Regional Pokedex (in DP at least) was made up of new Pokemon. In X and Y, new Pokemon don't even make up 1/5 of the Kalos Regional Dex. If more Megas had been made available in the main campaign this problem would have been alleviated, at least a bit.
There were 69 new Pokemon introduced in X&Y, and 13 of those (the starters, the fossil you don't choose and the version exclusives) were unavailable unless you had both games or traded. Most people only had access to 56 new Pokemon - or 27 evo lines - and even then a few of those weren't available until very late in the adventure. This isn't comparable to G/S or D/P at all tbh.
I love XY, but it was definitely hurt by the lack of new Pokemon imo. Arguing that Mega Evolutions count doesn't really address that at all.
I love XY, but it was definitely hurt by the lack of new Pokemon imo. Arguing that Mega Evolutions count doesn't really address that at all.
Regulus Tera
Romanes Eunt Domus
Mega Evolutions count in the sense that they still have to be conceptualized, designed, modeled, and programmed in the same way a regular new Pokémon does. If Mega Evolutions were permanent nobody would try to argue that they are not the same thing as a new Pokémon.
Green Mamba
Member
But that's precisely why they aren't typically counted. Pokemon are something you build a team with. You can't build a team out of Mega Evolutions.
I agree with this, but it's irrelevant. Your post is a very common response to complaints about the low number of new Pokemon, but as Green Mamba says above - you can't build a team out of Mega Evolutions. Hell, most of the stones aren't even available until post-game anyway. Their existence doesn't change the fact that we only had 27 new Pokemon to pick from when playing X or Y, and that's a crazy low number.
MasterSheen
Member
That's specifically why they aren't counted, they aren't really much more than form changes. They are virtually intangible. You literally can't do anything with them outside of battle.
To a certain extend, I agree that saying Gen 6 introduced "few Pokémon" is a half-truth. Mega Evolutions fulfill many of the same roles regular 'mons do -- they give a "fix" for us fans who want to see new Pokémon. But at the same time, the difference between regular 'mons and Megas is blatantly obvious. The former contribute to diversifying the region's ecosystem, while the latter are mostly a concept created for battles. That's what people mean when they say Kalos doesn't have enough new Pokémon.
I have to argue that they also aren't conceptualized / designed / modeled in quite the same way as regular Pokémon, which come from a broader school of design. Megas apply to existing Evolution Families, for one thing -- and they follow certain special principles (when it comes to each one's differentiation from its 'base' form) for another. They essentially introduce a new "tier" in Pokémon design. Some like it, some don't. It's undeniably a remarkable thing on its own, but it's understandable why some people don't "count" them.
GiantBreadbug
Member
Sorry but you know exactly what people mean when they complain about Gen 6 having few new Pokemon. Arguing that Megas are the same thing is kind of pendantic.
I like Megas. But they aren't new evolutionary lines.
I like Megas. But they aren't new evolutionary lines.
But Megas took the design and development away from New Pokéon. They were essentially treated as new ones in development.
WrenchNinja
Member
Well yeah, that's what I want. No ones asking game freak to mess with the numbering, just give a section in the dex devoted to the megas. We had an unown dex back in gsc, although there were no specific entriesIn past games, many of the new Pokémon were unavailable for most of the game. New evos in Diamond & Pearl, for example. Half the dex in Gold & Silver and so forth
Why not a happy compromise and a "Mega Dex" as part of the Pokédex. It's own numbering system and the like
I want to read cool info about mega absol and slowbro. What do the wings add to him in an evolutionary standpoint? How does the shellder almost fully consuming slowpoke affect slowbro? That shit would be rad
I realize you can't really say a lot since they're just temporary battle upgrades but maybe write it from that stand point. Have a battler give out info About how charizard x's change in colour and blue flame is an effect on his internals making him more physically powerful and say in punch through a steel beam or some shit
Of how mega blastoises' alteration in pump locations make him more suitable for battling directly compared to it's brethren
Man I could write this shit all day
True, but this isn't a good thing. If having Mega Evolutions means we get barely any new Pokemon species each gen, I don't know if it's a worthy tradeoff tbh.
It's just an arbitrary distinction though
I like the last idea better. I feel like it's necessary for splitting the games generations up because of how big of a leap Gamefreak has went with Gen 6. But after this half half break up gen 7 (or gen 8?) Needs to be a full generation.
Uhh...it's the opposite of an arbitrary distinction. Have you read the last several posts about this? There's a very clear reason why people would consider Mega Evolutions separate from new Pokemon species.
You don't have to defend everything GameFreak does, man.
Aside from them being temporary in battle and no number, there's no difference. They have level up lists, they have stats, they had design work, they had balance work etc.
Why are you making out Mega Evolutions to be a bad thing? We can't just keep doing the same stuff over and over, we need new concepts like this for the series to stay fresh
Beyonce Beytwice
Member
I'd rather have more awesome Mega Evos than tons of generic filler like in gen V. You really think the middle ice cream cone or Gurdurr were more worthy inclusions than awesome Mega Evos that give old Pokémon new life to boot? The former do take up a Pokédex number which seems to be the only criterion to some here, but they are utterly forgettable and pointless Pokémon unlike most Mega Evos.
I chuckled again at this notion. They totally threw balance out the window with Mega evolutions.
WrenchNinja
Member
How are they any less worthy than when your caterpie became a metapod or your squirtle into wartortle? Did you not like when that happened? It's for a sense of progression and growth during your adventure
Because new Pokémon are more interesting than Mega Evolutions. If I could choose between having more of the former at the expense of having none of the latter, I wouldn't blink.
GiantBreadbug
Member
It isn't. It's disingenuous to imply that it is.
Megas are cool, and I am actually totally aware of how development resources apply to them.
But they are not new evolutionary lines. The distinction is important to make, and it's an incredibly obvious one.
If it were announced (I know it wouldn't be, but for the sake of argument) that Gen 7 would introduce mostly Megas and few ( <= 50 ) new Pokémon I would likely not get the game at launch.
Megas aren't that special. A lot of them are actually quite boring meta-wise.
Again, there's a willingness to discredit anyone who isn't hyped to hell about Megas so I guess that's what's going on here. Even though I like them just fine.
SomedayTheFire
Member
Because they could have spent that time on creating new unique Pokemon lines. I mean I don't dislike Megas but it's not hard to grasp that point. You can't build a team out of Megas, you can build around one Mega. Which severely limits their use, and then you go into the whole subjectiveness of if someone actually likes a Pokemon that got a Mega.
Beyonce Beytwice
Member
Sawk and Throh were not more interesting than Mega Metagross and Mega Pinsir.
GiantBreadbug
Member
"My favorite pokemon is better than yours" is not the line of argumentation you should follow here.
Some people probably like Sawk or Throh more than those Megas.
Beyonce Beytwice
Member
Adding to and improving existing evolutionary lines is just as important and gratifying as adding new ones, sometimes moreso. Mawile is finally worth using for the first time in its life this gen, that's great and was sorely needed for years.
Beyonce Beytwice
Member
It was just an example. Most Mega Evos are inherently immensely interesting (heck, that's how they were designed), while a lot of the "all-new" gen V designs and typings were really bland and repetitive.
GiantBreadbug
Member
Yeah I agree, but some people would like to be able to use more than one modified line in a team, which isn't possible with Megas.
Actually one of my biggest complaints is that I think Megas have eliminated the chance for pokemon to get regular evolutions in later gens.
And regardless, the emphasis is on the new evolutionary lines. Those are the highlight, because those are the Pokémon that people get to learn from the ground up.
I'm sorry, but Megas should never steal the stoplight from new lines imo. It's just not something I'd be interested in.
Beyonce Beytwice
Member
That's an empty complaint since then they could have just given Mega Mawile an evolved name like Mawiletwo and given it a dex number and you wouldn't have batted an eye.
WrenchNinja
Member
Sawk and Throh are rad
They're karate and judo Bert and Ernie. How can you not like that
They're karate and judo Bert and Ernie. How can you not like that
I don't see how it's empty. With your supposed pitch of Mawiletwo, from there Mawiletwo could also get another evolution, with Mega Evolution, that's not possible, the only way Mawile can have additions to it's line is through pre-evolutions.
As for the whole "Are Mega Pokemon new Pokemon?" debate, while I agree that there is a lot of work put into them, I disagree that it's the same amount of work. Megas usually only get about 100 BST raise, so while there's work deciding it's stats, it's only allotting it's stat changes, the design work isn't as drastic a change that could come from designing a whole new Pokemon, and it's movepool is the same as the Pokemon it's M-Evolves from, so you don't need to worry about any changes there. Also, a Mega Pokemon only has one ability so you don't need to worry about deciding whether it should have multiple abilities or what abilities that should be.
Either way, if I had to choose between the existence of Mega Pokemon and New Pokemon, it's really not much of a choice for me. I usually only stick to one Mega Pokemon per game (M Blastoise and later M Garevoir in X; M Blaziken in ORAS), while I usually try to have a whole party of new Pokemon when a new Gen comes out (I used the Chesnaught line, the Vivillion line up until right before the 7th Gym, and the Honedge line in X) so I was kinda disappointed when it didn't really seem like a feasible task to do in X/Y and especially annoying that there weren't even any Megas for the 6th Gen either (or 5th Gen for that matter).
So yeah, while I don't necessarily want them to just drop Mega Evolution, it would be really nice if they could focus more on making new Pokemon instead.
As for the green blob, I'm not ruling out a Zygarde form just yet
ArchedThunder
Banned
Megas are fine in the VGC format, which is what GameFreak balances for.
Beyonce Beytwice
Member
ArchedThunder
Banned
Another moviegoer's impression:
I thought it was said that there were no hexagons on it and it had a red stomach, are you sure this isn't just someone's interpretation based on the doodles?
I spoke to another friend who went to the movie earlier today, to check the latest sketch, and they said that the new sketch was pretty much bang on from what they can remember so no scales or lack of a red spot. Like GoldStarz says, there's fan art circulating now.
This made me lol. Just shows how there can't be an single universal and correct opinion about Pokémon.
Yeah. Some people forget that. I kinda abandoned Smogon because of that. If I wanna go to a Tournament, I wanna do the real thing
Linkstrikesback
Member
Then they shouldn't have happened. Either they should have been new actual evolutions or other new pokemon shouuld have been designed instead, if they couldn't make up for the shortfall of actual new pokemon
ArchedThunder
Banned
Here's how I see it, Gen IV had a lot of Pokemon that were evolutions of previous Pokemon and it got a lot of shit for it, Gen V was a complete restart and it got shit for not having any evolutions of previous Pokemon, Gen VI feels like they were trying to strike a balance between those two.
As far as new Pokemon in Gen VI that aren't Megas I feel like they were just short of an amount that people would have been okay with, I think if they had 20 more Pokemon people wouldn't have minded as much.
As far as new Pokemon in Gen VI that aren't Megas I feel like they were just short of an amount that people would have been okay with, I think if they had 20 more Pokemon people wouldn't have minded as much.
Beyonce Beytwice
Member
That's only a problem for pedantic and narrow-minded people who can't think of them as other evolutions. Consider the following:
Elekid --> Electabuzz --> Electivire (gen IV)
Buneary --> Lopunny --> Mega Lopunny (gen VI)
The end result is virtually the same, with the only difference that Buneary's third stage can't use hold items and Elekid's can. And Elekid's third stage has its own Pokédex number, which is apparently important to some fans and the Megas probably also should have gotten, especially from a Pokédex entry/lore perspective. As a trade-off for losing hold items, Mega Evos get the benefit of playing mind games in battle. Useful and fun examples include holding out on Mega Evolving Gengar if the player predicts an incoming Earthquake and thusly keep its immunity to it for a turn longer. Or keeping Gyarados's neutrality to Fairy attacks before Mega Evolving it, until any Fairy threats have been taken out.
Green Mamba
Member
You can have an Electivire and a Magmortar on your team at the same time. You cannot have a Mega Lopunny and a Mega Sharpedo on your team at the same time. Pokemon is about making a team, and Megas are deliberately limited in their team building function in a way previous new evolutions were not. That's going to rub some people the wrong way.
It's not a straight comparison.
It's not a straight comparison.
Beyonce Beytwice
Member
That is indeed a shame and a misguided attempt at balance on Game Freak's part, I too wish we could have more than 1 Mega on a team. I hope GF fixes that next gen or in one of the coming versions. It would help the lesser Megas like Mega Steelix, who often get overlooked now in favor of another better Mega that already takes up the single Mega slot.
ArchedThunder
Banned
Removing the one Mega per team limit would be ridiculous, they should instead look to tweaking the stats and move pools of the Pokemon/Megas to make them more useful.
Beyonce Beytwice
Member
Only if the game weren't already unbalanced as hell as is. Some Megas are broken even on their own (like Mega Gengar and Mega Kangaskhan) so no 1 Mega at max rule was ever going to fix that, and OTOH you could have a team of six of some of the shitty others (like Mega Steelix and Mega Audino) and still lose to a team of stronger non-Megas. The 1 Mega rule makes sense in theory for a game that would be somewhat balanced in general (or if all Megas were somewhat balanced compared to each other), but Pokémon has never been that game and certainly isn't now.