Support NeoGAF

[Inuhanyou]

This is all fine and dandy but at the end of the day the average consumer won't care if Scorpio could be considered a next generation machine or if Neo intentionally hindered it's upgrade to maintain compatibility with PS4.

Consumers don't care about ideological theory on what defines a platform. They want what's best for them, and in this regard, Scorpio is clear and away the power Victor. So I hope Neo brings value to the table and prices itself sensibly because there will be plenty of negative press to go around for premium pricing for the sake of the word premium.

I'm sorry Sony, I don't buy into the 'consciously conservative console upgrade so we can be make a superfluous point about what defines the generation'. I garuntee consumers won't either.

Your wrong. A majority of people who buy Sony consoles do not care about what MS is doing at large outside of America because of their ecosystem.

So technically, Sony can dictate terms all they want without fear of people moving to Scorpio just because of power. It takes more than power to win mindshare and good will.

After DRM and what MS was planning at the end of the generation, it would have taken a miracle for me to go with them. PS4 being stronger was just a bonus.

 

[Rembrandt]

The power difference exists, how much of it will manifest on your television- well we'll find that out in two years, but the point I'm really trying to make is:

IF Sony is trying to enter the market with PREMIUM pricing and justifying the lower powered components with rhetoric/spin about "mantaining the integrity of the console generation"- than I think they are seriously underestimating their consumer base.

I hope the Neo is priced comfortably at $399. What made PS4 so successful was a confluence of power, exclusives, branding, and most importantly VALUE. My statement has more to do with having an uneasy feeling that Sony might try to shoehorn a 4.2 TF/Jaguar machine at a $499 price tag - which atleast to me- appears to be poor value.

I think that'll be poor value to most especially considering their competitor. I'm interested in seeing how the advertisement for both consoles go. Should be interesting to see how consumers react.

 

[geordiemp]

At least we dont have to read the new console every 2 years rubbish that was never going to happen.

 

[VlaudTheImpaler]

I already said this, and so did Andrew House right after E3. They are not going for super quick iterations with hardware with generations being destroyed. I said this. just because MS is thinking like that doens't mean Sony has to.

The current status quo of generations helps Sony more than hurts, and being the market leader, they can dicatate developers hardware priority.

Their plan is an iterative unit in the middle of the cycle, and then a complete refresh for the next gen a few years later, and then another iterative unit a few years after that with all of them being fully BC with the previous software and ecosystems but their own exclusive titles ect.

But MS isn't thinking that at all. They are only planning on being able to make way for new emerging tech. Pretty much the same thing I understand from Sony. Did you listen to the GiantPhilcast?

 

[rrc1594]

I honestly think Microsoft had a perfect name for the Scorpio, but they wasted it on the Xbox One slim. Xbox One S would have been a great name for Scorpio.
Xbox One Slim would have been a better and less confusing name for the S.

I'll be shocked if Scorpio has the ONE brand name

 

[icespide]

I'll be shocked if Scorpio has the ONE brand name

same

 

[Abdiel]

This is all fine and dandy but at the end of the day the average consumer won't care if Scorpio could be considered a next generation machine or if Neo intentionally hindered it's upgrade to maintain compatibility with PS4.

Consumers don't care about ideological theory on what defines a platform. They want what's best for them, and in this regard, Scorpio is clear and away the power Victor. So I hope Neo brings value to the table and prices itself sensibly because there will be plenty of negative press to go around for premium pricing for the sake of the word premium.

I'm sorry Sony, I don't buy into the 'consciously conservative console upgrade so we can be make a superfluous point about what defines the generation'. I garuntee consumers won't either.

What are you even saying here?

I mean, what? All we have from MS is their project name and some specs commented for a Holiday 2017 expected date, with nothing else out there... And officially, from Sony, we don't even have that. So, how are you making this commentary? What we have are leaked rumors and discussions based on SDKs, product displays to retailers, and the like, which show a lot of considerations being made, and even then, most of that doesn't really align with whatever this post said.

If Sony releases the Neo/PS4K within the next 6 months or so, that would mean they have almost a year of time to themselves on the market before the actual Scorpio hits the field, and it would be predominate on top of the existing massive PS4 audience, which is far and away ruling this generation. The Scorpio and PS4K seem to be directed towards the power hungry audience types, but also to those with existing markets... I'm in the market to buy this, but guess what, the Scorpio could be double the power of what the PS4K is, but it still wouldn't earn a purchase from me, because it wouldn't suddenly have the library it would need. I feel like there's a lot of assumption being made on a lot of things that really, I can't wait to see these things come out just so we can actually get the speculation like this to stop.

 

[Pathfinder]

I'll be shocked if Scorpio has the ONE brand name

Phil said Scorpio would be considered in the same family, so I'll be shocked if it doesn't have "One" in the brand name somewhere.

 

[thuway]

what makes you think it's gonna be $499?

The insistence of "premium", "high end", and select quotes from executives:

Andrew House

Andrew House, president and global chief executive of Sony Interactive Entertainment, told the Financial Times that the “high-end PS4” would be more expensive than the current $350 version.

 

[ArkhamFantasy]

I'll be shocked if Scorpio has the ONE brand name

I think you risk alot of consumer confusion if you dont put ONE in the name.

 

[kiguel182]

This whole seems very confusing if I'm being honest. It's not an iterative model but also doesn't mean a next generation jump?

At this point I might just save money and buy a PC down the line. I don't like the hard generation jumps and it seems like there isn't a clear message on this either way.

 

[Inuhanyou]

But MS isn't thinking that at all. They are only planning on being able to make way for new emerging tech. Pretty much the same thing I understand from Sony. Did you listen to the GiantPhilcast?

They already said during the announcement that they were taking away the concept of traditional generations, and were flipfloppish on whether or not games could be exclusive or not, or even if 4k was mandated.

I think they are trying to hit a good spot with consumers, but we still know more much defintiively that Sony wants to keep the benefits of generational changes around to 'bring new hardware experiences', aka, no mandated forwards compatibility out of iterative cycles.

MS is planning on all iterative, and all forwards compatibility.

 

[ArkhamFantasy]

This whole seems very confusing if I'm being honest. It's not an iterative model but also doesn't mean a next generation jump?

At this point I might just save money and buy a PC down the line. I don't like the hard generation jumps and it seems like there isn't a clear message on this either way.

It hasnt even been formally announced yet...They are only acknowledging its existence because it was leaked by so many different sites.

 

[Fat4all]

Phil said Scorpio would be considered in the same family, so I'll be shocked if it doesn't have "One" in the brand name somewhere.

The same family doesn't have to equal the same branding.

I could easily see them not having the word "One" anywhere on the platform.

 

[Rembrandt]

At least we dont have to read the new console every 2 years rubbish that was never going to happen.

lol. its absolutely still going to happen.


I think Scorpio is going to have the one branding but I really wouldn't be surprised if the next iteration ditches the name of its family.

 

[smoothj]

So this is like iPhone 6 then 6s?

 

[icespide]

The insistence of "premium", "high end", and select quotes from executives:

I don't really get the impression that they are "insisting" on that term. Of course it's going to be more expensive than the standard PS4.

I think if the standard PS4 goes to $299 when Neo comes out then a $399 Neo would still qualify for that "high-end" moniker

 

[Dangansona]

MS's announcement feels more like a regular upgrades model to me. Especially due to the fact that despite what they said about not having any Scorpio exclusive titles, Scorpio will be getting exclusive games in the form of VR. Heck, they even said it themselves when making the announcement, they're "beyond generations"

I should have specified in regards to the NEO.

 

[thuway]

What are you even saying here?

I mean, what? All we have from MS is their project name and some specs commented for a Holiday 2017 expected date, with nothing else out there... And officially, from Sony, we don't even have that. So, how are you making this commentary? What we have are leaked rumors and discussions based on SDKs, product displays to retailers, and the like, which show a lot of considerations being made, and even then, most of that doesn't really align with whatever this post said.

If Sony releases the Neo/PS4K within the next 6 months or so, that would mean they have almost a year of time to themselves on the market before the actual Scorpio hits the field, and it would be predominate on top of the existing massive PS4 audience, which is far and away ruling this generation. The Scorpio and PS4K seem to be directed towards the power hungry audience types, but also to those with existing markets... I'm in the market to buy this, but guess what, the Scorpio could be double the power of what the PS4K is, but it still wouldn't earn a purchase from me, because it wouldn't suddenly have the library it would need. I feel like there's a lot of assumption being made on a lot of things that really, I can't wait to see these things come out just so we can actually get the speculation like this to stop.

Abdiel-kun I'm day 1 on Neo.

I just think my criticism is valid if Sony decides to price Neo at $499 while masquerading cheaper components in a bonnet of words like "Premium", "high end", and "Prettier".

Just to be clear- I am making an assumption that Sony will price Neo at $499, and I'm merely expressing that price point for what's offered in the box could represent poor value irrespective of console politik.

I don't really get the impression that they are "insisting" on that term. Of course it's going to be more expensive than the standard PS4.

I think if the standard PS4 goes to $299 when Neo comes out then a $399 Neo would still qualify for that "high-end" moniker

Our definition of high-end is very different than. High-end typically represents a cost no object, top of the line, bracket of goods. In the world of headphones, graphic cards, loudspeakers, -hell general electronics- high end almost always DOES NOT represent good value for dollar.

 

[10k]

It looks like a one off because of the take off in 4K. If it was adopted much slower I could see the Neo not even happening.

 

[farisr]

I should have specified in regards to the NEO.

Nah, yours was clear, I on the other hand should have specified that I agreed with your thoughs on Neo, and was just adding something else that I feel is happening with MS on the otherhand. LOL.

I swear I thought I wrote that I agreed, or "this", before going on about MS. But apparently not. LOL.

 

[reKon]

I have known this since day 1, we had people running crazy theories about rapid console iterations every year or so.

It doesn't work like that..games take years to make.

Too many people here lack critical thinking to realize this. Sorry!

 

[poodpick]

Very few people assumed they were shifting to a rapid change model, something like yearly changes.

What I think remains to be seen is how truly iterative they wish to be, building off the same shared architecture going forward after this model, etc.

I think they're going to follow the "tick-tock" model of Intel.

28nm PS4

14/16nm PS4+

14/16nm PS5

8/10nm PS5+

etc

Iterative models will depend on how big the gaps are between nodes or whether they can figure out a way to get the current node running with reduced heat and power consumption (maybe shifting away from current transistor materials).

 

[VlaudTheImpaler]

They already said during the announcement that they were taking away the concept of traditional generations, and were flipfloppish on whether or not games could be exclusive or not, or even if 4k was mandated.

I think they are trying to hit a good spot with consumers, but we still know more much defintiively that Sony wants to keep the benefits of generational changes around to 'bring new hardware experiences', aka, no mandated forwards compatibility out of iterative cycles.

MS is planning on all iterative, and all forwards compatibility.

My response was to the "super quick iterations" part of your post. Sure, MS may not be doing full gen jumps anymore but that doesn't mean that each iteration will be coming super quick either.

 

[icespide]

Our definition of high-end is very different than. High-end typically represents a cost no object, top of the line, bracket of goods. In the world of headphones, graphic cards, loudspeakers, -hell general electronics- high end almost always DOES NOT represent good value for dollar.

I really think in that specific instance Andrew was just using the term "high-end" as a way to describe it in relation to the standard PS4

if anything I could see sony pushing that "high-end" moniker as a way to make $399 seem like a great value

 

[Inuhanyou]

http://www.cnbc.com/2016/06/14/sony-expect-playstation-vr-shortages.html

House, though, says Neo is not the beginning of the next generation.

"It's a higher end version of the PlayStation 4," he says. "We will absolutely have a single community of players. All of the games releasing within this life cycle [of consoles] will absolutely be playable on the standard PS4 … This just offers the consumer another option. If you are looking for the highest graphics performance, if you recent bought a 4K TV and you're looking for content, then Neo is going to be great option for you. But it is that – an option – rather than saying the cycle has moved on."

They consider cycles and generations still around. PS4K is just apart of the 8th gen a much as the PS4 is.

Andrew house and others at Sony have been consistent on this issue. If you want to say they have been consistently lying, that's one thing. But just saying they have to succumb to destroying gens because of literally no evidence whatsoever, i feel, is just another way of saying "Sony too", just like the DRM, cause it was the future and nobody could stop it.

 

[farisr]

Abdiel-kunOur definition of high-end is very different than. High-end typically represents a cost no object, top of the line, bracket of goods. In the world of headphones, graphic cards, loudspeakers, -hell general electronics- high end almost always DOES NOT represent good value for dollar.

Sony's referred to the 60GB model of the PS3, as the premium model when it launched. It was a $100 difference from the 20GB model.

High-end, and premium, (in the console space especially) is just a way of differentiating and expressing that the thing they're talking about is more capable than the non-premium model, rather than indicating that the price for said object will not represent fair value.

 

[Rembrandt]

Sony's referred to the 60GB model of the PS3, as the premium model.

High-end, and premium is just a way of differentiating and expressing that the Neo is better than the base ps4, does not hint anything about pricing.

It absolutely does, imo.

 

[Boke1879]

This is all fine and dandy but at the end of the day the average consumer won't care if Scorpio could be considered a next generation machine or if Neo intentionally hindered it's upgrade to maintain compatibility with PS4.

Consumers don't care about ideological theory on what defines a platform. They want what's best for them, and in this regard, Scorpio is clear and away the power Victor. So I hope Neo brings value to the table and prices itself sensibly because there will be plenty of negative press to go around for premium pricing for the sake of the word premium.

I'm sorry Sony, I don't buy into the 'consciously conservative console upgrade so we can be make a superfluous point about what defines the generation'. I garuntee consumers won't either.

I don't get what you mean. Price is always the deciding factor. a PS4 is a PS4. Neo or the OG model doesn't change that. Neo is coming this year and will presumably offer a noticeable difference to get people to upgrade.

Again it's a premium model. Sony knows the cheaper SKU will sell more. It's all in the same ecosystem and that's what they want.

 

[Aztechnology]

Source

Sony current strategy is working very well for them, so.. "If it ain't broken, don't fix it!"

Also I think it's pretty clear now that Sony's plans and philosophy behind the Neo are different from Microsoft with Scorpio.



Please lock if it's old.

"We're not going to do yearly upgrades or revisions like PC or Mobile. Every few years isn't the same thing."

Sounds like PR BS trying to calm people down because as we've seen on GAF people are reacting in an extreme way and letting fear get the best of them. This is the reality now, the coding to the "metal" days, the snowflake console experience is gone outside of Nintendo who is still trying desperately to do it instead of adapting. Platform agnosticism and corresponding options (including incremental improvements) is where the market wants to go.

 

[Inuhanyou]

The insistence of "premium", "high end", and select quotes from executives:

Premium only means in comparison to current PS4. There will likely be a price drop from OG PS4 at NEO's announcement, which would still count NEO as premium even if it launched at 399

"We're not going to do yearly upgrades or revisions like PC or Mobile. Every few years isn't the same thing."

If you have a PS4 and a PS5, and they are separated by 6 years, and in between you have a PS4K that plays PS4 games better but is locked to 8th gen standards for development(aka PS4 up-ports), that is most certainly still a generation cycle. Its simply adding an iterative unit in between that is a glorified slimline addition with greater power. Except instead of condensed internals it has stronger power.

 

[quest]

I think they're going to follow the "tick-tock" model of Intel.

28nm PS4

14/16nm PS4+

14/16nm PS5

8/10nm PS5+

etc

Iterative models will depend on how big the gaps are between nodes or whether they can figure out a way to get the current node running with reduced heat and power consumption (maybe shifting away from current transistor materials).

I don't expect the PS5 until 8/10 is ready. A PS5 on the current node would be extremely under powered. I expect at least 10TF and 8 Core Zen SOC as a min for a PS5 and that is not going to happen on the current node.

 

[Equanimity]

This is all fine and dandy but at the end of the day the average consumer won't care if Scorpio could be considered a next generation machine or if Neo intentionally hindered it's upgrade to maintain compatibility with PS4.

Consumers don't care about ideological theory on what defines a platform. They want what's best for them, and in this regard, Scorpio is clear and away the power Victor. So I hope Neo brings value to the table and prices itself sensibly because there will be plenty of negative press to go around for premium pricing for the sake of the word premium.

I'm sorry Sony, I don't buy into the 'consciously conservative console upgrade so we can be make a superfluous point about what defines the generation'. I garuntee consumers won't either.

As if the two systems aren't speculated to be an entire year apart. Come on mate.

 

[Orca]

I'd say they sound pretty similar:

LOL, their announced plans are exactly the same.

Yeah, they're basically saying the exact same things...which makes me think if people think one is good and one is bad, the problem is something other than the messaging.

 

[onQ123]

The reason for the upgrade is for people with 4K TVs .

 

[Aceofspades]

The same family doesn't have to equal the same branding.

I could easily see them not having the word "One" anywhere on the platform.

It would be Huge mistake, what about branding existing game covers?

 

[Inuhanyou]

Yeah, they're basically saying the exact same things...which makes me think if people think one is good and one is bad, the problem is something other than the messaging.

SonyGAF right?

Listen...if MS assured everyone that they wanted to keep clearly defined generations and standards for development with their hardware, i would be a lot more happy with them then i am. But what Phil Spencer talked about before even NEO was announced, and what they talked about during the E3 conference gave no confidence that they cared about keeping that balance within the industry.

Sony's statements have been consistent on that level, and i appreciate that.

 

[Crayon]

I'd prefer if they break the forward compatibility at the generational increments. That way, select games can be cross-gen and some can be next gen only according to demand.

 

[poodpick]

I don't expect the PS5 until 8/10 is ready. A PS5 on the current node would be extremely under powered. I expect at least 10TF and 8 Core Zen SOC as a min for a PS5 and that is not going to happen on the current node.

If TSMC, Global Foundries, and AMD manage to not fuckup we might get a 8/10 nm PS5 in 2019. I'm thinking 2020 is more likely. Remember even Intel is having a tough time shrinking transistors now.

 

[Corpsepyre]

I just don't understand how they'll market this without making the regular PS4 version of the same game look like crap. Will be interesting going forward.

 

[Mooreberg]

Unless Neo and Scorpio are met with a collective shrug, I'll be very surprised if there isn't yet another PS model out by the end of 2018. Neo will not still be $399 by then, so another model will keep more expensive SKUs attractive. Still seems like a muddled strategy overall, but it would at least be logically consistent. I'm still wondering at what point Sony or MS would expect third parties to abandon the vanilla hardware, considering it will be 2019 before any of the subsequent iterations could have approached that user base. And that would be around the time that a clean transition to a new "generation" would occur, just with better B/C since everything is x86 going forward.

 

[Boke1879]

It absolutely does, imo.

Well yea. It's going to be more expensive. It could be $500 doesn't mean it will. All we know is it'll be more than the current PS4 model which by the time Neo comes out will no doubt see a price drop.

 

[quest]

I'll be shocked if Scorpio has the ONE brand name

Of course it will have the one name brand since they will share the same game library for many years.

 

[darkinstinct]

what makes you think it's gonna be $499?

Leaks said it is 399 with 4.18 TFlops and weak CPU and would be 499 if they upgrade the CPU.

 

[thuway]

I just don't understand how they'll market this without making the regular PS4 version of the same game look like crap. Will be interesting going forward.

Have you ever played a PC game before? Here's Crysis 3 comparing Low/Medium/High/Very High:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPq00dd4Ygg

One console will run the game using high quality effects, resolution, and a more consistent experience, while the other will use the baseline experience. You will be fine .

 

[Slayer-33]

Yeah, right.

Came for this.

Not disappointed.

 

[quest]

If TSMC, Global Foundries, and AMD manage to not fuckup we might get a 8/10 nm PS5 in 2019. I'm thinking 2020 is more likely. Remember even Intel is having a tough time shrinking transistors now.

I don't expect a PS5 till 2021 to be honest the NEO/Scorpio will help stretch this current generation much more gracefully than last generation.

 

[Agent X]

I just think my criticism is valid if Sony decides to price Neo at $499 while masquerading cheaper components in a bonnet of words like "Premium", "high end", and "Prettier".

Just to be clear- I am making an assumption that Sony will price Neo at $499, and I'm merely expressing that price point for what's offered in the box could represent poor value irrespective of console politik.

I'm in agreement with icespide and Inuhanyou. I have a feeling that when the PS4 Neo comes out, the "Original Recipe" PS4 will drop to the $299 level, and the Neo will clock in at $399.

The wise strategists of the industry would have learned many lessons from the console launches of 2013. I don't think we'll see $499 again anytime soon, especially not for half-step updates that don't represent true generational leaps.

 

[Fat4all]

It would be Huge mistake, what about branding existing game covers?

I think more than anything it depends on the final name. I can see them keeping the "one" if they call the new system "one+" or sommit like that, but if they decide to keep Scorpio, or any other type of name like that, they should really drop the "one". I don't see it sounding good in any way otherwise, from a brand pov.

 

[Kaako]

Can we get some FreeSync support/TVs while you at it as well? Thanks.
Would prefer Gsync but ain't nobody dealing with Nvidia lol.