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Sony: PlayStation Neo isnt a shift to releasing new consoles every 1 to 2 years
- Thread starter The Praiseworthy
- Start date
Calm Mind
Member
You actually believe this?
DragonKnight
Member
Yep.
New system launches, hardware refresh 2-3 years later, new system launches 3 years later.
Hey, I'm a consumer who jumped into last gen with the Neo. I can play that game on my Neo with worse performance, right?
what's not believable about that?
"It's a PlayStation, but with a 5 at the end."
"You mean the PS4K? Obviously only PS4 games work on PS4 consoles, K or otherwise. BUT! Your PS4K game will work wonders on the PS5!"
come on bro
LukasTaves
Member
But that doesn't make much sense. If you know this at first why would anyone buy a Neo knowing it will have half a life a console should have, even when if it is capable of running some Ps5 games even.
And on the other hand, why would people jump to Ps4 when they know a few years later there will be a much more powerful console that plays all the games?
Iterative consoles makes sense because you if you buy a current model you have a guarantee that it will still run new games for years ahead.
LukasTaves
Member
And then comes Ms: "Here's the same game, you can still play it on Scorpio, but if you want to play it with even higher graphics and performance you can also play on Xbone 2"
"Oh, in fact, you can buy the game *now* for scorpio, and whenever you jump in to Xbone 2 the upgraded version is already yours".
Like Sony has never come off a hugely successful console only to lose tons of customers due to anti-consumer practices. A Playstation with a new number at the end isn't garunteed success.
"What!? I just got this! My friend had a PS4 and could still play games when a new one came out! This is bullshit."
i believe them.
the only reason we're getting x.5 consoles is because this gen was underpowered out of the gate. with the advent of VR and PC GPU advances there really was no choice but to cut the gen short or go this route
i mean, who knows. maybe next gen we'll see this becomes a recurring thing but i doubt it
the only reason we're getting x.5 consoles is because this gen was underpowered out of the gate. with the advent of VR and PC GPU advances there really was no choice but to cut the gen short or go this route
i mean, who knows. maybe next gen we'll see this becomes a recurring thing but i doubt it
Calm Mind
Member
3rd party publishers asking for shorter console cycles and not 4K.
End of 2018 would be two years, if Neo isn't pushed to 2017. And obviously ARM is taking over on a global scale, but not for PC or console gaming. At least not in this decade. Iterative means an emphasis on backwards compatibility and selling people on a large digital library, so I'm not expecting a wholesale architecture shift anytime soon. If ISPs in developed nations are not too much of a roadblock, an ARM device that streams PS Now content seems more logical than an ARM device that replaces current consoles.
LordOfChaos
Member
To me, it looks like Sonys plan is the DSi/New 3DS plan. Two steps within a generation, but still defined by generations. PS4, PS4.5 together, then PS5, PS5.5 together, etc.
Microsofts plan on the other hand seems to be forever-iterative, support will have to be dropped for old boxes at some point, but with no defined generation boundaries. Xbox 2 comes out, Xbox one is retired and the Two and 1.5 still get games. 2.5 comes out, Xbox 1.5 gets retired.
That's my take anyways. MS's messaging could always be foot in mouth as usual of late.
Microsofts plan on the other hand seems to be forever-iterative, support will have to be dropped for old boxes at some point, but with no defined generation boundaries. Xbox 2 comes out, Xbox one is retired and the Two and 1.5 still get games. 2.5 comes out, Xbox 1.5 gets retired.
That's my take anyways. MS's messaging could always be foot in mouth as usual of late.
There will no no PS5 or Xbone 2 till the next node shrink. A PS5 in 2018 would not be much more powerful than a Scorpio. It would make no sense, the Neo is going to help Sony extend this generation till the next node shrink is ready in 2021.
Duxxy3
Member
I see the NEO as a correction for the weak consoles we got 3 years ago. It's roughly what the PS4 should have been in the first place. The PS5 will be out in 2019 and we'll go back to normal cycles.
Microsoft might go "generation-less", but in reality they'll just be on a 4 year cycle with good backwards compatibility.
Microsoft might go "generation-less", but in reality they'll just be on a 4 year cycle with good backwards compatibility.
Crayon
Member
"Sorry, son. You have a ps FOUR. This is a ps FIVE game.
"Actually, in order to accommodate these amazing next-gen game systems and environments, the game is only on xbone2, ps5, and pc."
Neo doesn't bother me tbh even though my gaming habits haven't changed since 1998 and am firmly a believer in the classic gen model. I am more interested in the 1st party line up and I doubt Sony will fuck up on that front and also because I am looking forward to a lot more indie games so the extra power is moot.
Obliterator
Member
I think we are still getting a PS5. Maybe 6 year cycles now where the base model launches, the "premium" around 3 years later, then the next true generation in around another 3 years
Why would anyone buy anything if something better will exist later? because they can.
Nobody is saying PSNEO and PS5 won't have some cross gen games like every other console upgrade and its father. But PS4K is MANDATED to be locked to PS4 capabilities. All that means, is that PS5 will be allowed to have its own games to fully take advantage of the hardware. Simple.
People looking for PS4 games at better quality will pick up a NEO if they want to stay in the ecosystem, and the PS4 will be the lower option for those on a budget. Makes sense to me, i don't see how its a hard concept to grasp.
PS5 will naturally be BC with both PS4 and NEO upgraded games.
/Thread.
It's not hard to understand. Though M.S. is doing something different from Sony.
what led you to this conclusion?
I believe them in the sense that I expect the "PS5" to release in 2019 and the "PS5 Neo" in 2022 as opposed to making a box where the PS4 Neo becomes the new required support platform to an even more powerful PS4 iteration.
Notice how he rules out a new console every 1 to 2 years, but not every 3. Phil did the same thing.
To Far Away Times
Member
Reminds me of the "third pillar" days of the GBA and NDS.
recklesscognition
Member
If you're going to have a 5-6 year console window you've got to release Neo this fall.
Might just be more of they want a high end system now and will shift the generation leap so they can continue making high end vs making low to mid range just before a great advancement.
This falls in line with what sony said about not wanting console players swapping over to PC
Xbox.... well they...have their own plans and reasons.
This falls in line with what sony said about not wanting console players swapping over to PC
Xbox.... well they...have their own plans and reasons.
Nirolak understands, just listen to what he's saying if not me
I think these iterative consoles are going to back fire on both Sony and Microsoft! Most people try and compare it to the handheld segment but usually when Nintendo releases an updated version of the platform, the previous form factor completely falls off in sales. There are people talking on here as if the PS4 is going to continue selling like gangbusters and the Neo is going to sell like hotcakes as well. Why would a person need multiple PS4's when you could just get the best version? My bet is that sales of the original PS4 are going to nose dive and used PS4's will flood the market, while people just get the Neo. Unless it comes out at a premium price of $500-600 then that will determine how well the original PS4 continues to sell for.
Somehow I don't think consumers would enjoy being talked down to like this.
Crayon
Member
Why can't I play F Zero on my NES?
edit: or you can replace "son" with "sir" if it's an adult asking the question.
we still don't know whether neo will "replace" vanilla ps4s or not though.
imo the two biggest factors are this gen's longevity and VR. PSVR taking off will probably inch a lot folks toward upgrading, and assuming ps5 is 2020-ish people will definitely want to upgrade in the interim. tons of people "upgraded" to the 360 elite, for example. even though that's not really a 1:1 comparison
It really does feel like they are trying to stealth launch it to avoid negative press...
Sony can say what they will but I'm almost betting that there are certain PSVR experiences that will only be capable on the Neo. All of this right now is just good PR, but Sony really has no power or authority over anyone but what their own developers do!
Poimandres
Member
For it to really work:
- There would need to be a bigger jump in power between Neo > PS5 than there is PS4 > Neo
- You need some justification for why the PS5 games aren't playable on old machines (some kind of new technology, or a big power jump)
- PS5 needs to be full backwards compatible. All consoles need to be from here on out.
I don't think it's THAT much of a hard sell. After all, Nintendo and Microsoft have released machines in the past with a full life cycle of under 4 years and they still pulled it off. It's also worth noting that a lot of people don't need the latest and greatest, which is why the PS1 and PS2 had huge tails from people who were happy enough with an "old" generation machine.
You're arguing that consumers should expect traditional consoles cycles to continue immediately after purchasing a console that appears to buck that trend. You're expecting Sony to tell consumers that they should have known the console they bought three years ago would soon be obsolete. That it was just an enthusiast console. That traditional generational lines would be drawn again in just a few years.
The only reason Sony has acknowledged that the Neo exists is to get ahead of fears that the PS4 will be obsolete just a few years into its lifecycle in order to tell consumers that all games will still work on PS4. Clearly Sony realizes that consumers wouls react negatively to that news so I can't imagine they would be willing to tell Neo owners that they were fools to think their console would be supported for longer than a few years.
LukasTaves
Member
Well, yeah, but why do you convince them to?
How do you convince people to buy the neo version that has half of the non neo life, despite costing the same or more.
And how do you convince people to buy the new non neo console if they think soon there will be a newer model that plays everything better?
Iterative works because you know that you are buying a the best proposition on the market at the time, and whatever you buy will have support for the expected life time.
Yeah, but what happens when the competition have mandated cross games with scorpio, and a single version for both (with upgraded graphics on Xbone 2 of course)? How do you convince to stay on your ecosystem, when the other offers a better proposition?
The concept is not hard to grasp, but how do you sell people that? How do you make people want to buy that?
But if you buy a game on Neo, jumps to Ps5 then you either have to buy the game again, or the remastered version, while on Xbox you change the console and the game automatically gets better.
They sound like the exact same strategy to me. They're not doing away with generations, but are offering more choice within the same generation without sacrificing compatibility. I also think it's pretty clear both companies are hoping to maintain compatibility between generations this time around, as they want to retain people within their ecosystem. This "hard reset" really hurt Microsoft in particular this gen, and I think both companies see that and recognize it as a thing they need to fix, especially in the digital era. The move to x86 pretty much ensures games will be backwards compatible for the foreseeable future, so I think this is something that both companies are chasing. The only difference between the devices is that Sony's is coming out sooner and therefore will have lower specs. Now we just need to see if that turns out beneficial or not in the long run, as they'll likely be able to drop price by the time Microsoft launches, and the power delta between the PS4 and PS4K looks to be more manageable than between XBO and Scorpio.
Crayon
Member
You are way out ahead here. We are on gaf speculating from very little info. Sony has not even announced the thing. Why would the PS4 neo appear to buck the trend like you say?
Or to put it another way, you are begging the question by taking for granted that the consumer's expectation of console generations will change after 30 years of delineated generations.
LukasTaves
Member
Scorpio is a half gen leap compared to Xbone already. Anything that comes in 3 years time will not be a full gen leap on Scorpio either (specially if they stick to apu designs).
By the time Xbone 2 hits I'm sure "no one on Scorpio gets left behind" just like they are saying now with Xbone. When they announced Scorpio they had a cinema like screen telling people that Xbox is now beyond generations, that's the message they are sending.
Warablo
Member
Sony's plan definitely sounds more like mid-gen upgrades. While Microsoft's almost sounds like a new generation with backwards compatibility. Sure, they will support the original Xbox One, but eventually the default Xb1/Ps4 has to be phased out for better games.
I think Sony doesn't allow Neo exclusive games except for VR. While I think Microsoft will allow it with the Scorpio.
I think Sony doesn't allow Neo exclusive games except for VR. While I think Microsoft will allow it with the Scorpio.
Crayon
Member
No not at all. If you have the game on neo and trade up to a ps5 the ps5 should play it just just fine because it's backwards compatible.
What I'm saying is 3rd party companies run this industry, if Rockstar decided that the experience they want to give with the next GTA would be better perceived on Neo, Scorpio and PC without compromise. Do you really think Sony would deny them releasing the game at all?
I'm not saying that this is 100% going to happen but one would be foolish to believe Sony is absolutely going to enforce that every game has o.g.PS4 compatibility. Not to mention that PS4 getting a port or version could end up meaning that version being pawned off to a port house and not optimized at all.