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[yurinka]

Sorry, but it makes a lot of business sense for them.

Microsoft is already beginning the same process with Kinect.

They're both trying to emulate the peak of Nintendo's Wii success, because they already have a stable hardcore fanbase that they believe they won't lose to Wii's successor.

It doesn't make any sense, they would loose their hardcore users if they don't include a DualShock.

If any, they would redesign DS3 making it splittable, giving it Move capabilities and if possible without giant colored orbs.

It also would make sense to include a PSEye 2, a Dual Shock 4 and a Move 2 controller in every PS4 box.

But consider they usually don't use to push the casual until the console is cheap and that they have a ton of studios to support both casual and hardcore, motion sensor controlled and traditional controlled games at the same time.

 

[mentalfloss]

WUT.

Move Remote + Nunchuk + Playstation Eye should be about $100. Sony will need to push this control method to give their system a unique advantage over the other consoles.

It doesn't make any sense, they would loose their hardcore users if they don't include a DualShock.
If any, they would redesign DS3 making it splittable, giving it Move capabilities and if possible without giant colored orbs.

Yea, this looks like it could be quite a problem for Sony if they think they will get an edge on Microsoft by simply packaging a dual shock controller. The hardcore gamer dollar alone will not get them very far.

Also Sony and MS put a whole bunch of shit together in their financials. IIRC last year Sony's network division was in the red but they had said that the games division was in the black every quarter for the previous 3 quarters, or something like that.

I hope so. They might want to take PSN revenue numbers out of the next financial report as well.

 

[StevieP]

It doesn't make any sense, they would loose their hardcore users if they don't include a DualShock.

If any, they would redesign DS3 making it splittable, giving it Move capabilities and if possible without giant colored orbs.

Dual Shock is an extremely counterintuative and outdated design, both for hardcores and casuals (god i hate those terms!)

 

[AranhaHunter]

Because more than half of Nintendo's income is pre-wii, and you really can't tell by the chart how much of the income come from games sold to casuals. I don't see any thing from the chart that tells me the casual market is where companies should focus their efforts on.

I don't think income made in a certain market is a good measurement of of healthy a market is. MS and Sony needs to take advantage of a hardcore market without doing stupid shit that make them lose money, i.e. PS3 and RROD.

Also Sony and MS put a whole bunch of shit together in their financials. IIRC last year Sony's network division was in the red but they had said that the games division was in the black every quarter for the previous 3 quarters, or something like that.

 

[Proelite]

And while you're there, TSMC has a very poor record in delivering die shrinks on time as of late. But, as discussed with the 3DS teardown awhile back on GAF - don't assume that a $200 build cost for some of the hardware means that it's a $200 profit for a console sold at $400. There is a LOT more in the cardboard box, both inside the console and out.

Just an overestimation based that is definitely not accurate:
CPU+GPU:$200
Kinect 2.0: $25
60gb HD: $10
Ram: $25
2 x One Handed Laser Controller with joystick, accelerometers, gyros etc...: $40
Blue-ray: $25
Others + Manufacturing:$25

$350 not counting retailer fees.
Hmm... Probably not a killing.

 

[yurinka]

Dual Shock is an extremely counterintuative and outdated design, both for hardcores and casuals (god i hate those terms!)

WTF LOL. The DS3 nubs can be improved, but other that that it's perfect for hardcore.

For casuals yes, Move is the best motion control option.

 

[cpp_is_king]

What do you do?

Program

 

[Krowley]

Yes.

The average consumer will look at the graphics - which will be something akin to that Unreal 3 demo - and they will not interpret that as a huge leap.

I'm already there, and I'm not even an average consumer, although I admit I care very little about fidelity in the broader scheme of things.

The best looking stuff on the horizon is amazing in a lot of ways, but it isn't enough by itself to justify a console upgrade compared to ps360 to me. We've already reached the point where graphics are acceptable to me, and after that, you're just adding additional nose-hairs and what-not. Basically, I can live without it, and I don't need additional graphics fidelity to provide an adequate suspension of disbelief. Every improvement is welcome of course, but it's not mandatory, and it won't be a big selling point for me.

 

[mrklaw]

Yeah, who knows. I'm not even saying they will make a new Cell necessarily. Maybe PS4 ditches powerPC in favor of ARM instructions. But the overall design approach seems to be the only way forward. A fully programmable chip with vector processing of a GPU. Intel's Larrabee project is a more recent example.

Do current GPGPU solutions have enough 'general computing' flexibility to allow you a one chip console? Eg just a fermi derivative. Most CPU intensive activities are vertex processing, physics etc which should be suited to such a chip. Maybe you throw in a dirt cheap standard CPU (heck, throw current CELL in there for BC) just to keep things ticking over

 

[mentalfloss]

WTF LOL. The DS3 nubs can be improved, but other that that it's perfect for hardcore.

For casuals yes, Move is the best motion control option.

Move is actually quite good for fps games, sports games (like soccer), and strategy games. Dropping it as a control method would also be killing a huge opportunity for Sony profits.

I'm already there, and I'm not even an average consumer, although I admit I care very little about fidelity in the broader scheme of things.

The best looking stuff on the horizon is amazing in a lot of ways, but it isn't enough by itself to justify a console upgrade compared to ps360 to me.

Exactly. The only real necessary upgrade is the move to 1080p because it's a good marketing tool. Other than that, trying to go the high-end route is a bad move for Sony and MS.

 

[sixteen-bit]

WTF LOL. The DS3 nubs can be improved, but other that that it's perfect for hardcore.

For casuals yes, Move is the best motion control option.

What's strange is that the nubs were concave on the original Dual Analog (non-dualshock) controllers on PS1. I wonder why they moved away from then once they added rumble.

 

[StevieP]

Move is actually quite good for fps games, sports games (like soccer), and strategy games. Dropping it as a control method would also be killing a huge opportunity for Sony profits.

Move is fantastic for everything but racing/fighting games. The DualShock has the edge there. But it should be relegated to "classic" status - I'll say it to all manufacturers - dual-analog is the past. Evolve.

Exactly. The only real necessary upgrade is the move to 1080p because it's a good marketing tool. Other than that, trying to go the high-end route is a bad move for Sony and MS.

They've already used their 1080p marketing card with the PS3.

 

[AranhaHunter]

I hope so. They might want to take PSN revenue numbers out of the next financial report as well.

Does your chart include XBL (or PSN for that matter) revenue/profit?

 

[Metalmurphy]

Program

I assumed it from the nickname (unless it's a funny coincidence), but I meant, specifically.

 

[Lord Error]

Move is fantastic for everything but racing/fighting games. The DualShock has the edge there. But it should be relegated to "classic" status - I'll say it to all manufacturers - dual-analog is the past. Evolve.

I love move, love to use it for all kinds of games including FPS, but I have to say that the dual stick setup is still the best control option if you just want to sit back and relax while playing. The question is if majority of people playing consoles want precisely that kind of experience, but I think it could very well be the case.

 

[StevieP]

I love move, love to use it for all kinds of games including FPS, but I have to say that the dual stick setup is still the best control option if you just want to sit back and relax while playing. The question is if majority of people playing consoles want precisely that kind of experience, but I think it could very well be the case.

I don't have as much experience with Move as I do with the Wiimote, but for the vast majority of "normal" gaming (read: not waggle-heavy stuff like Mario Party/Wii Sports/etc) I've done on the Wii it has been just as relaxing as a pad. In fact, moreso due to the split controller and the ability to rest it on your knees. Move has been the same, even if it is more prone to drift.

 

[Raistlin]

They'll most likely use the SPU's in some fashion, but they won't be connected to a PPU.

They have to be connected to some sort of host since you aren't going to run general code on SPU's. They aren't designed for use in a symmetric processor.

 

[Proelite]

Move Remote + Nunchuk + Playstation Eye should be about $100. Sony will need to push this control method to give their system a unique advantage over the other consoles.

I was confused as to why the next Xbox would include the move.
I see that I misread something.

I don't think a move bundle would cost $100 for Sony.

 

[okenny]

I was told my vision would cost $9999 in another thread.

BELIEVE!

 

[CadetMahoney]

The only real necessary upgrade is the move to 1080p because it's a good marketing tool. Other than that, trying to go the high-end route is a bad move for Sony and MS.

They've already used their 1080p marketing card with the PS3.

I don't think Sony has any more cards to play. 120fps, 1080p. . . "Super HD".

 

[Lagspike_exe]

4k @ 240 FPS. Sweet Lord, I'll die happy if I ever get to play a modern game at that spec.

 

[Proelite]

4k @ 240 FPS. Sweet Lord, I'll die happy if I ever get to play a modern game at that spec.

I'll never stop asking myself how much better the game look at 1080p 60fps.

 

[freddy]

New thread title is hilarious. It's like it's no longer bad news about the Playstation brand on the main page.

 

[mckmas8808]

Yes.

The average consumer will look at the graphics - which will be something akin to that Unreal 3 demo - and they will not interpret that as a huge leap.

Does this not look like a huge leap to you? To me people will notice the difference between what's on the PS3 today and if the floor of your average PS4 game looked at good as this.

 

[Proelite]

Does this not look like a huge leap to you? To me people will notice the difference between what's on the PS3 today and if the floor of your average PS4 game looked at good as this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKZjxoJyI8g

 

[mckmas8808]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKZjxoJyI8g

You're kidding right?

 

[Massa]

Does this not look like a huge leap to you? To me people will notice the difference between what's on the PS3 today and if the floor of your average PS4 game looked at good as this.

http://www.abload.de/img/10829_battlefield-3trpw.jpg[IMG]
[IMG]http://www.abload.de/img/10825_battlefield-33s77.jpg[IMG]
[IMG]http://www.abload.de/img/battlefield_3_screensh38w6.jpg[IMG]


[IMG]http://www.abload.de/img/faultlineseriesepisodekjdh.gif[IMG][/QUOTE]

Battlefield 3 is actually a great example that graphics won't sell people on a new console. If that's your strategy, you're screwed.

[img]http://i51.tinypic.com/dqm6i8.jpg

 

[mckmas8808]

Battlefield 3 is actually a great example that graphics won't sell people on a new console. If that's your strategy, you're screwed.

So are you saying that they look the same on the consoles and on the PC? Surely you aren't saying that.

And my point is the console version can get probably 80% close to the PC version of today. But what about 3 years from now? The gap will be even bigger than it is today.

 

[Massa]

So are you saying that they look the same on the consoles and on the PC? Surely you aren't saying that.

And my point is the console version can get probably 80% close to the PC version of today. But what about 3 years from now? The gap will be even bigger than it is today.

The high-end PC footage definitely looks better, I just don't think it looks better enough to justify a new console in the eyes of most consumers.

And 3 years from now EA will still be using Frostbite 2. Games won't look radically better.

 

[Strike]

Does this not look like a huge leap to you? To me people will notice the difference between what's on the PS3 today and if the floor of your average PS4 game looked at good as this.

Wait for GG's and Naughty Dog's 1st gen PS4 projects.

 

[CryoLombax]

So are you saying that they look the same on the consoles and on the PC? Surely you aren't saying that.

And my point is the console version can get probably 80% close to the PC version of today. But what about 3 years from now? The gap will be even bigger than it is today.

PC is always evolving over months, consoles come around in cycles of years; PC versions of titles will always look superior when they're given at least a decent amount of attention.

 

[mckmas8808]

Wait for GG's and Naughty Dog's 1st gen PS4 projects.

Yeah that's what I'm thinking and trying to explain to the poster above. If BF3 is the floor to what good games look like on the PS4 then I'd say that's a huge difference and reason enough to buy.

 

[Kasumi1970]

if sony goes big into move next gen and MS goes Kinect i guess i will get a wiiU or stay with the 360 and PS3....i don't like Kinect or move.

 

[Proelite]

You're kidding right?

You're saying bf3 doesn't look better?

 

[mckmas8808]

You're saying bf3 doesn't look better?

Dude..... now you know you wrong.

 

[Allonym]

Wait for GG's and Naughty Dog's 1st gen PS4 projects.

Just reading this makes me all happy inside

 

[ShinobiFist]

I don't think Sony has any more cards to play. 120fps, 1080p. . . "Super HD".

Screw 4K, give me 8K tv now! Look at the 42sec-45sec mark, damn!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9U7e_quvkPQ

 

[Indyana]

It doesn't make any sense, they would loose their hardcore users if they don't include a DualShock.

If any, they would redesign DS3 making it splittable, giving it Move capabilities and if possible without giant colored orbs.

It also would make sense to include a PSEye 2, a Dual Shock 4 and a Move 2 controller in every PS4 box.

But consider they usually don't use to push the casual until the console is cheap and that they have a ton of studios to support both casual and hardcore, motion sensor controlled and traditional controlled games at the same time.

I think that is what Microsoft is going to do plus Kinect, but I think Sony is going to do its own version of the Upad. It's something that fits with Sony philosophy. They are a multimedia company. They have experimented with something similar before.

It would be an improved Wii U controller: multitouch, small processor and memory, bluetooth and wifi... It would be a dumb tablet to surf the Web, enter the PSN and Qrocity... But it could interact with other Sony products like PSV, TVs, BD players, laptops, mobile phones and even from other companies. So it would become the one for all remote of your digital life. Sony CEO said they are looking for synergy between the different branches of the company. This dumb tablet would be full of synergy. They could integrate this connectivity into their tablets and they could even sell this dumb tablet without the pad controls.

They would benefit from Wii U userbase to gather support to two screens gameplay from third parties too. And they can keep current PS3 controls compatibility.

 

[Callibretto]

screenshots for next gen may not look like a big leap compared to this gen, but I'm pretty sure it'll be very noticeable in motion / video form. next gen, they're gonna hit you head on with dynamic lighting and shadows, destructibility, physics/cloth simulation and some extreme close up shot to show pores and wrinkles etc.

people will notice the difference, I'm sure of that.

 

[googleplex]

They have to be connected to some sort of host since you aren't going to run general code on SPU's. They aren't designed for use in a symmetric processor.

Of course, I mean the core that the SPU's are connected to would be based on a more modern architecture.

 

[Proelite]

Dude..... now you know you wrong.

We've come so far in 5 years time.

 

[googleplex]

So are you saying that they look the same on the consoles and on the PC? Surely you aren't saying that.

And my point is the console version can get probably 80% close to the PC version of today. But what about 3 years from now? The gap will be even bigger than it is today.

And, no one will still give a fuck but PC enthusiast.

 

[mentalfloss]

And, no one will still give a fuck but PC enthusiast.

Bingo.

 

[UntoldDreams]

I think that is what Microsoft is going to do plus Kinect, but I think Sony is going to do its own version of the Upad. It's something that fits with Sony philosophy. They are a multimedia company. They have experimented with something similar before.

It would be an improved Wii U controller: multitouch, small processor and memory, bluetooth and wifi... It would be a dumb tablet to surf the Web, enter the PSN and Qrocity... But it could interact with other Sony products like PSV, TVs, BD players, laptops, mobile phones and even from other companies. So it would become the one for all remote of your digital life. Sony CEO said they are looking for synergy between the different branches of the company. This dumb tablet would be full of synergy. They could integrate this connectivity into their tablets and they could even sell this dumb tablet without the pad controls.

They would benefit from Wii U userbase to gather support to two screens gameplay from third parties too. And they can keep current PS3 controls compatibility.

Uhhh.... The Sony Dash already exists? Throw on Playstation Suite and call it a day I suppose.

 

[patsu]

Dash's response is too slow.

 

[Utako]

Dual Shock is an extremely counterintuative and outdated design, both for hardcores and casuals (god i hate those terms!)

A refined "Boomerang" would likely be the best traditional controller ever made.

Have it split into 2 parts on demand to become a wireless Wiimote-and-Nunchuck-alike, just like everyone always wanted.

 

[StevieP]

Wait for GG's and Naughty Dog's 1st gen PS4 projects.

"Wait for" is a GAF meme that I have not seen in prominition since 2007.

Of course, I mean the core that the SPU's are connected to would be based on a more modern architecture.

What would be the point? A modern x86 dual core CPU smokes the PPE and SPEs in every way that matters and most developers would be able to instantly get more out of it.

screenshots for next gen may not look like a big leap compared to this gen, but I'm pretty sure it'll be very noticeable in motion / video form. next gen, they're gonna hit you head on with dynamic lighting and shadows, destructibility, physics/cloth simulation and some extreme close up shot to show pores and wrinkles etc.

people will notice the difference, I'm sure of that.

2006 called. It wanted your idealistic post back. All it's missing is the word "AI" (and after playing the original Half Life, and then Crysis 2 recently... yeah). We'll take more of this and we'll like it:

 

[Indyana]

Uhhh.... The Sony Dash already exists? Throw on Playstation Suite and call it a day I suppose.

I knew Sony would do something like that! But I was thinking about a dumber tablet, Playstation Suite would run on the PS4. Pick the cheapest processor and memory to browse the web, enter the PSN and communicate with other devices. Then add DS3 controls and produce dozens of millions to reduce costs. Sony could also make another version without buttons and sticks and sell it for half of Dash price.

 

[Raistlin]

Of course, I mean the core that the SPU's are connected to would be based on a more modern architecture.

I would imagine if they were to do a CELL derivative, the SPU's would also change a bit. A nice chunk of L3 cache shared between them a la the modern Power series would be a huge benefit.

 

[Durante]

What would be the point? A modern x86 dual core CPU smokes the PPE and SPEs in every way that matters and most developers would be able to instantly get more out of it.

Considering that efficiency (that is flops/watt) is going to be an even bigger concern for these machines than it is for current ones, I very much doubt that a x86 chip would be a wise choice. Sure, the SPEs are not particularly easy to use, but they are incredibly power efficient.