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SPOILER Bioshock Infinite SPOILER discussion

I wish they made the songbird more of a threat. There is never any real gameplay with it where its your enemy. All of those sections are on rails or you aren't in control.

They hype it up to be a huge threat, but that hype never manifests into any real risk when playing.

In a way, that makes songbird a bigger threat than anything you have and will encounter in the game. The fact that you can never directly fight him shows just how powerful he is, all your vigors and fancy guns are useless against him, and your only option is to flee
 

LiK

Member
In a way, that makes songbird a bigger threat than anything you have and will encounter in the game. The fact that you can never directly fight him shows just how powerful he is, all your vigors and fancy guns are useless against him, and your only option is to flee

yea, the fact that Elizabeth finally figured out that she needed to ask Songbird directly for help was a game changer. Songbird killed Booker quite often before than.
 

Zeliard

Member
Songbird is such a threat that a fight with it would have been unfeasible. It would have ripped Booker to shreds in about five seconds. I'm glad they didn't have one. It was much better being just an awesome, powerful manifestation.

Yeah it would have ultimately been silly and, if anything, make Songbird even less imposing.

I mean the instant the dude shows him he is wrecking fools. I loved having him stomp the shit out of the Patriots in the final battle. Songbird doesn't sit there and have a "battle." He just kills things violently and very quickly. Those zeppelins felt it.



Songbird basically being that dude who shows up and is always either on the verge of killing Booker - or actually killing Booker - makes for a more menacing foe.

With adorable plushies.
 

LiK

Member
i wanna know who they mutated to make Songbird tho. such a mysterious being. i guess they couldn't make more than one.
 
I might have missed it, but was there a reason for the handymen having a heart weakness? Was it purely aesthetics, or was it to actually give them a weakness in case the lose control?
 

Trigger

Member
I thought for the longest that Songbird would be revealed as some alternate-Booker. I'm surprised that wasn't the case.

I might have missed it, but was there a reason for the handymen having a heart weakness? Was it purely aesthetics, or was it to actually give them a weakness in case the lose control?

I don't recall any voxophones discussing it in detail. Honestly, I doubt many people would consider shooting a Handyman in the first place. :p
 

DTKT

Member
I didn't like fighting the Handymen very much at all.

The fights were more tedious than fun.

Agreed. The camera shake when they attacked was just silly. On the whole, I'd say that most of the "special enemies" are really boring. Nothing comes close to the Big daddy from Bioshock. Even the Patriots are boring.
 

Nibel

Member
I didn't like fighting the Handymen very much at all.

The fights were more tedious than fun.

Disagreed - on Hard they can be a pain in the ass and shit can get pretty intense when they're following you

Anyway: Are there any cool BioShock Infinite ending analysis videos yet?
 

Dance Inferno

Unconfirmed Member
I generally dealt with the Handymen with a combination of Crows and Handcannon to the head. I didn't even realize they had a weakness in their heart.
 

awa64

Banned
In a way, that makes songbird a bigger threat than anything you have and will encounter in the game. The fact that you can never directly fight him shows just how powerful he is, all your vigors and fancy guns are useless against him, and your only option is to flee

It would have been nice to have a gameplay sequence where you flee from him, rather than just hiding from and/or getting thrashed by him in cutscenes.
 
Agreed. The camera shake when they attacked was just silly. On the whole, I'd say that most of the "special enemies" are really boring. Nothing comes close to the Big daddy from Bioshock. Even the Patriots are boring.

I think the patriots design is awesome and work so well in the world becuase they are tied historically to the place. Theres no depth to them becuase its not really needed (totally different to big daddies with the little sisters), they are just animatronics of Washington and Lincoln like in the Disney theme parks.
What makes it great is that Comstock uses animatronics of Washington and the Vox Populi animatronics of Lincoln.
They were also more fun to fight than the handy men and the phrases they spoke when they where trying to find you hilarious.

I might have missed it, but was there a reason for the handymen having a heart weakness? Was it purely aesthetics, or was it to actually give them a weakness in case the lose control?

Some people were saying pages ago that handymen could have different cancer diseases working at the tower where Elizabeth was held. That could be why all of them are bald chaging the designs with the hair and moustache in the old trailers and concept art, and tie them thematically to the story.
 

Emarv

Member
I feel like a jerk for asking the same question that's probably been asked a hundred times, but one of my main questions still is: What makes Elizabeth/Anna so special? Why does she have special powers?
 

Mariolee

Member
Or they're in an iteration of Rapture where the lock was never put into place. There's infinite raptures.

So basically every single playthrough anyone has ever done of the original Bioshock and Bioshock 2 is canon as they're basically alternate universes of each other. Ken Levine, you sly son of a gun.
 

LiK

Member
I feel like a jerk for asking the same question that's probably been asked a hundred times, but one of my main questions still is: What makes Elizabeth/Anna so special? Why does she have special powers?

a piece of her (the pinky) was cut off in another universe so it somehow allowed her to have powers. just a theory from Lutece tho.
 

Enco

Member
Just finished the game at 10 hours.

Read this to help make sense of it all.

What a brilliant game. I miss Elizabeth already. Easily the best character in any game I've played. She wouldn't have worked if she wasn't invincible in combat though.
 
So basically every single playthrough anyone has ever done of the original Bioshock and Bioshock 2 is canon as they're basically alternate universes of each other. Ken Levine, you sly son of a gun.
When I first saw Rapture in the game I thought it was a universe where Columbia sunk and that was the origin of Rapture.
 

LiK

Member
So her body gave her magical powers because she just really wants her pinky back?!

i don't think it can be fully explained even tho Lutece tries to make sense of it. I doubt even a genius like her can figure out the anomalies in time and space itself. i think her Voxophone was just something they put in to try and make sense of Elizabeth's powers.
 

Enco

Member
So her body gave her magical powers because she just really wants her pinky back?!
From the VentureBeat article it says she was given the powers after the Leutuce twins tested on her. The tearing technology was already there but they put it into Elizabeth.
 

Guevara

Member
I'm watching the 3.5 hour all cutscenes and story edit. Pretty interesting. Two things that have come up already:

http://io9.com/bioshock-infinite-the-movie-is-already-here-for-your-v-464835334

  1. The Demons by the vigors barker at the carnival. I was sure you'd fight them at some point. They appear to be adept with most of the vigors.
  2. Comstock Audio early on: "One man goes into the waters of baptism. A different man comes out. Born again. But who is that man that lies submerged? Perhaps that swimmer is both sinner AND saint until he is revealed onto the eyes of man."
 

LiK

Member
I'm watching the 3.5 hour all cutscenes and story edit. Pretty interesting. Two things that have come up already:

http://io9.com/bioshock-infinite-the-movie-is-already-here-for-your-v-464835334

  1. The Demons by the vigors barker at the carnival. I was sure you'd fight them at some point. They appear to be adept with most of the vigors.
  2. Comstock Audio early on: "One man goes into the waters of baptism. A different man comes out. Born again. But who is that man that lies submerged? Perhaps that swimmer is both sinner AND saint until he is revealed onto the eyes of man."

i assume those Devils are just visiting salesman and not really true believers. So they probably left Columbia when the shit hit the fan.
 

DigiMish

Member
They definitely need to explore Songbird origins more in the DLC, although I kind of doubt it since doing anything with Songbird is pretty tech-heavy and time consuming for the devs...
 

megalowho

Member
From the VentureBeat article it says she was given the powers after the Leutuce twins tested on her. The tearing technology was already there but they put it into Elizabeth.
There's not really a lot to support that theory in game, not sure how they reached that conclusion.
 

Papercuts

fired zero bullets in the orphanage.
The main thing I don't wrap my head around is how Elizabeth killing Booker before the baptism is a definitive end to Columbia/Comstock. Him being killed by her is a paradox, as killing Booker there would mean she never existed, and if she never exists she can't kill him.
 

Enco

Member
There's not really a lot to support that theory in game, not sure how they reached that conclusion.
Doesn't seem to shocking to me.

As Anna she was completely normal. No reason for her to have crazy battles.

When she was taken it showed that the Lutece twins had the ability to create tears. Not surprising that they would go about testing on her while she was locked up.

The main thing I don't wrap my head around is how Elizabeth killing Booker before the baptism is a definitive end to Columbia/Comstock. Him being killed by her is a paradox, as killing Booker there would mean she never existed, and if she never exists she can't kill him.
She existed in another world and crossed into that world temporarily. After killing him she died from that point on. I think. She killed evil Booker not normal booker.

Pretty confusing to be honest. Time stuff always is.

Pretty crazy thinking about how different decisions can have different world though. Not a new thought but still interesting.
 
The main thing I don't wrap my head around is how Elizabeth killing Booker before the baptism is a definitive end to Columbia/Comstock. Him being killed by her is a paradox, as killing Booker there would mean she never existed, and if she never exists she can't kill him.

One of the running theories is that she only drowns the Bookers who accept the baptism, therefore Comstock never being created. Leaving the Bookers who reject it the ability to live out their lives.
 

DTKT

Member
The main thing I don't wrap my head around is how Elizabeth killing Booker before the baptism is a definitive end to Columbia/Comstock. Him being killed by her is a paradox, as killing Booker there would mean she never existed, and if she never exists she can't kill him.

Speculations but.

It's been hinted that the only one who dies is the Booker/Comstock entity. The only one who goes into the water during the baptism is the Booker/Comstock as he accepts the ceremony. The "other" Booker refuses and leave.
 

LiK

Member
Speculations but.

It's been hinted that the only one who dies is the Booker/Comstock entity. The only one who goes into the water during the baptism is the Booker/Comstock as he accepts the ceremony. The "other" Booker refuses and leave.

And thus that Booker may have fragments of what happened to him in other universes and doesn't sell Anna at all.
 
Was I the only one who thought that Songbird would turn out to be another Booker? I got spoiled on the Comstock = Booker thing early on, which led to me to think that Songbird would be another Booker too.
 
From the VentureBeat article it says she was given the powers after the Leutuce twins tested on her. The tearing technology was already there but they put it into Elizabeth.

That's incorrect. The female Lutece addresses this in a Voxophone:
"What makes the girl different? I suspect it has less to do with what she is, and rather more with what she is not. A small part of her remains where she came. It would seem the universe does not like its peas mixed with its porridge."
The only experimenting that was probably done is to determine what triggers the tears. If female Lutece and male Lutece has given her the powers through testing, the Voxophone would not make sense

EDIT:
The main thing I don't wrap my head around is how Elizabeth killing Booker before the baptism is a definitive end to Columbia/Comstock. Him being killed by her is a paradox, as killing Booker there would mean she never existed, and if she never exists she can't kill him.

You've actually understood the difficult part of this. In order for Elizabeth to exist, a single Booker has to be able to accept the baptism. If a single Booker accepts the baptism, no Booker accepts the baptism, because every Booker was murdered before the choice. The probability of accepting the baptism leading to a paradox is 100%. A paradox cannot happen, ever, and thus the probability of any Booker accepting the baptism is removed. Therefore, Booker rejecting the baptism becomes a constant, because if every Booker rejects the baptism, the paradox doesn't occur.

Think of it this way: If, before the game's events, Booker always rejects the baptism, what happens? Nothing, no paradox is created so every Booker lives out their lives. The ending turns this into a certainty, it erases the probability of Booker ever accepting the baptism because that leads to the paradox where every Booker died before making it.
 

LiK

Member
Was I the only one who thought that Songbird would turn out to be another Booker? I got spoiled on the Comstock = Booker thing early on, which led to me to think that Songbird would be another Booker too.
my first thought too. Although who knows, he may be Booker after all but was never explained.
 

Papercuts

fired zero bullets in the orphanage.
But no comstock means Liz never loses her finger, meaning she shouldn't have access to tears. Meaning what happens is impossible, yeah?
 
That's incorrect. The female Lutece addresses this in a Voxophone:
"What makes the girl different? I suspect it has less to do with what she is, and rather more with what she is not. A small part of her remains where she came. It would seem the universe does not like its peas mixed with its porridge."
The only experimenting that was probably done is to determine what triggers the tears. If female Lutece and male Lutece has given her the powers through testing, the Voxophone would not make sense.


The One Who Knocks
Levine from an alternate timeline
(Today, 01:36 PM)
 

megalowho

Member
Doesn't seem to shocking to me.

As Anna she was completely normal. No reason for her to have crazy battles.

When she was taken it showed that the Lutece twins had the ability to create tears. Not surprising that they would go about testing on her while she was locked up.
Lutece's machine can peer into dimensions within the multiverse, potentially causing rapid aging/cancer as a side effect to the radiation. It's never presented that there was ever a way to somehow transport that technology inside someone, in fact it's explicitly stated that the girl is different. You can even see the difference in tear effects, from the plain white circle of the machine to Elizabeths far greater abilities.

Anna is normal, until an interdimensional tear leaves parts of her in separate universes within the multiverse. She's always had the ability to open tears since she was a child, the siphon is repressing her. I think that's pretty much accepted, at least in this thread.

There's Voxophones that strongly suggest all of this, If I find a more salient explanation I'll link it.
 

Zeliard

Member
Lutece pondering the origins of Elizabeth's abilities over the voxophone is basically the only thing there is to go on. It's the closest thing to canon, albeit it still leaves room to maneuver as Lutece is technically only theorizing.
 

LiK

Member
Lutece pondering the origins of Elizabeth's abilities over the voxophone is basically the only thing there is to go on. It's the closest thing to canon, albeit it still leaves room to maneuver as Lutece is technically only theorizing.
exactly what i said. She's smart but we can't take everything she says as gospel.
 
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