there is literally no reasonable metric by which this is possibly, remotely true
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[SPOILERS] Persona 5 Spoiler Thread | Steal your heart; steel yourself
- Thread starter Nachos
- Start date
there is literally no reasonable metric by which this is possibly, remotely true
You don't know what objective means.
Isaac Otherworld
Member
She's a loser who never leaves her room and speaks only in memes. She also blackmails you under threat of ruining your life and getting you arrested. She gets better, that is the point of these games. But these are still aspects of her. Mishima is a far better and more functional member of society than she is. I don't hate Futaba by any means, but this is all true of her.
Except the memes. She never outgrows speaking in memes and talking about experience points and leveling up.
Iva Demilcol
Member
He/she has a point, though. She behaves like a 5 year old who needs encouragement to do pretty simple tasks. I'd understand that behavior if she was isolated most of her life, but according to the story that happened 2 years ago.
Damn, I'm indifferent towards Futaba myself (And would never date her), but that's probably the harshest thing I've heard someone say about her.
Pretty harsh to say she's a loser considering her circumstances, not to mention what happened to her before she moved in with Sojiro. Also ignores her S-Link where she is clearly attempting to get better and adjust back into society, attend school one day, etc.
I absolutely do not care at all for her "geek speak", but she's alright.
Meh, 2 years is a pretty long time though...
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Ugh, why y'all got me caping for Futaba lol
Pretty harsh to say she's a loser considering her circumstances, not to mention what happened to her before she moved in with Sojiro. Also ignores her S-Link where she is clearly attempting to get better and adjust back into society, attend school one day, etc.
I absolutely do not care at all for her "geek speak", but she's alright.
Meh, 2 years is a pretty long time though...
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Ugh, why y'all got me caping for Futaba lol
sorry buddy but any metric by which "being dysfunctional and only understanding things in internet terms because you are a neglected and abused 15 year old who has lived with PTSD for two years and shut yourself off from the world" makes you a bad person is fucked up and horrible
i personally know plenty of people like futaba who are way, way better and more respectable people than a lot of "functional members of society"
Green Mamba
Member
Yeah, people who suffer crippling depression and extreme social anxiety are losers.
(◔_◔
(◔_◔
Yea, like what...
Isaac Otherworld
Member
I'm just using the same language for Futaba that people are using for Mishima. I'm not actually calling Futaba a loser or a bad person.Yeah, people who suffer crippling depression and extreme social anxiety are losers.
(◔_◔
I don't hate Futaba, I'm just pointing out that she has all of Mishimas faults to a more extreme degree and pointing out how unfair it is for people to call him a loser because he's getting his ass kicked by an Olympic athlete every day.
Iva Demilcol
Member
Mishima endured abuse by his peers during middle school and physical abuse from his coach for a year and some people wished for him to die alone in this same thread.
Eh, I dunno why you're quoting me like I said that or agree with those people. My dislike for him will never get that serious, even as a joke lmao
Also we were talking about Futaba. I'm not really gonna entertain the whole "This character is objectively worse than another" thing, because that's just silly for obvious reasons.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Eh, it's all gut feeling in the end. Even I won't say that my hate for Ryuji is objective really.
Though I don't know if it's this game's intentions to make these people who suffered a lot of abuse still come out as your typical shitty teenagers.
Though I don't know if it's this game's intentions to make these people who suffered a lot of abuse still come out as your typical shitty teenagers.
Isaac Otherworld
Member
9s is an objectively worse person than Mishima and here is why.
KO Traveling Hobo
Member
1. Those stupid shorts.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Shorts + Socks = just no.
Autoignition
Member
Why y'all gotta take me so literally even after I admit to joking and taking the piss. smdh.
Futaba and Mishima's social/adjustment problems are vastly different. Mishima has an obsessive personality and has no concept of personal space. Futaba's, like, the exact opposite in that she locks herself away from the world and has intense anxiety being around people in general. Not even remotely the same thing. You can't really compare these two characters.
Iva Demilcol
Member
I'm quoting you because you quoted me =P not because I think you're wrong or something.
All these characters have had a pretty rough time but as I said people just come here and brush their issues off as it it was nothing. Yep, they are fictional characters but most of us got pretty upset when we saw what happened to Shiho even though she's a fictional character too. The issues we see in the game are all very relatable so seeing people talking shit about certain characters makes me question that people. I seriously doubt I'm one of the few persons who get very emotional playing these games.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
TBF you can say that Mishima's lack of personal space is due to his outcast status before he met Joker. He just has no experience in how to define it.
It's another way of not being used to... people.
Thing about Shiho is that we don't actually see anything about her after her initial arc other than that she's recovering. There really isn't a story focus on her negative parts unlike mishima and ryuji long after their problem was solved, which I know is not how trauma works but eh, I think that's how it is.
It's another way of not being used to... people.
Thing about Shiho is that we don't actually see anything about her after her initial arc other than that she's recovering. There really isn't a story focus on her negative parts unlike mishima and ryuji long after their problem was solved, which I know is not how trauma works but eh, I think that's how it is.
Joke's on you, you should've said Kat instead.
I figured, it's just, that was a weird comparison to make imo lol
Isaac Otherworld
Member
I can't say that about Kat tho.
Autoignition
Member
That still doesn't make him similar to Futaba tho.
Good, good.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Oh yeah, definitely. The only real comparison is that they're both the most socially awkward people in the game. Other than Yusuke, but he just gives no fucks really.
Isaac Otherworld
Member
1. Futaba absolutely has an obsessive personality. I mean she contextualizes everything by RPG terms.
2. She doesn't have a sense of personal space either. See evety interaction she has with Morgana.
They're very similar people.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Wanting to pinch a kitty's cheeks isn't a personal space problem.
If not I have to evaluate my own actions. >_> <_<
If not I have to evaluate my own actions. >_> <_<
Autoignition
Member
Nope. Gotta push back on this.
1. This does not at all indicate an obsessive personality. She speaks in the only language that she has to communicate due to her extreme isolation. This is a case of her not actually knowing how people talk to each other, not of her being obsessive over RPGs.
2. Futaba is not at all the only member of the party who gets handsy with Morgana on a regular basis. Ann does it. Haru does it. Also, Mona's a cat. It's a little bit of a different dynamic.
Isaac Otherworld
Member
I mean it kinda is when the kitty is a person and says "stop".
Anyway we need to stop hating on characters like Mishima, Futaba and Ryoji and deal with the realy enemy: which ever dev put the homophobic gay couple in and decided to not let you date any of the guys. These are quite literallythe worst parts of the game.
i was really hoping it'd be that exact offspring song and i was not disappointed
Iva Demilcol
Member
I didn't know it was you who said that. I just came to this thread because I wanted to see if certain person who recently finished the game had come here to leave his impressions (... and we were talking about being obsessive) and read a lot of comments shitting on Ryuji and Mishima.
I still find her characterization weaker than other characters tbh: The game tries to convince me that her traumas led to totally forgetting how to interact with other people to the point that she wears a ridiculous mask but that's only played for laughs.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Wasn't she pretty bad beforehand also?
Like her social link deals with her being unable to connect with someone before all that happened.
Like her social link deals with her being unable to connect with someone before all that happened.
Autoignition
Member
Ah. No worries, mate.
This is a totally fair critique, and honestly a lot of the characters in Persona 5 suffer from this. It's a huge weakness in the writing and made the whole game feel like it didn't know what it wanted to be. Was it a serious deconstruction of stigmas surrounding mental illness and the abuse of power? Or was it just zany anime bullshit filtered through a slightly darker lens than normal?
Iva Demilcol
Member
Probably the second one
yeah, they talk a lot about how she was shy and reclusive even before her mother died. that's why her mom made that List of Achievements stuff.
Elaugaufein
Member
Yes. And also getting the All the Other Reindeer Treatment because of having a photographic memory. Sojiro seemed to be one of the people closest to her, and he's someone who met her mother at work and became friendly with her by failing to hit on her. Futaba wasn't normal even before her mother's death.
I kind of want to give them the benefit of the doubt, but eh...
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Like it's kind of the problem from 4 really. Like the actual real big problem about 4.
I still can't believe he just up and died before he even does anything interesting. The whole game I was like "this guy is obviously evil, but now that the reveal is past us, we can finally dig deeper into his motivations and maybe he'll become an interesting character". But nope, we just get daddy issues and then he just disappeared. I was pretty much in disbelief until the end of the game that there wasn't more to his character. Right up until the final hour of the game, I thought he wasn't really dead and they wouldn't completely waste his character like that =/
Iva Demilcol
Member
I always thought that the big problem of P4 was that Atlus got greedy and thought it was better to make a product for otakus to make more money instead of making another Persona game.
Like I also look at being able to romance the adults the same way. Like we get articles like this, talking about the grey areas and such, and I'm like man, I'm pretty sure they just wanted to pander lol
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
The tricky thing though is that the zany anime bullshit is also kinda why I like this series.
I still don't think it's as egregious as 4 though.
Hey kanji, what we learned is that it's alright to accept what you like even if it doesn't fit into the traditional definition of masculanity. Now let's make gay jokes about it!
Hey naoto, what we learned is that you have trouble with the way you're treated in a patriarchal society due to your gender. Aww, aren't you really cute when you're embarrassed about your femininity ?
I still don't think it's as egregious as 4 though.
Hey kanji, what we learned is that it's alright to accept what you like even if it doesn't fit into the traditional definition of masculanity. Now let's make gay jokes about it!
Hey naoto, what we learned is that you have trouble with the way you're treated in a patriarchal society due to your gender. Aww, aren't you really cute when you're embarrassed about your femininity ?
Autoignition
Member
The whiplash in 4 was really bad, but ultimately I wasn't too bothered by it because the overall tone of that game wasn't really all that serious to begin with. It was basically an anime version of Scooby Doo with more likeable characters. In 5, it just stands out way, way more because the overall tone and messaging of the game is a lot darker.
ChasingComets
Member
Oh yeah, definitely. The only real comparison is that they're both the most socially awkward people in the game. Other than Yusuke, but he just gives no fucks really.
Yusuke is absolutely the dorkiest of them all, and my kindred spirit animal in this game. I see so much of myself in him that it's uncanny.
Too bad I don't have the looks nor artistic talent he has to make it seem cute.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Yeah that's true. I still really like Persona 4 despite all that because I like anime, and if you like anime you learn to put up with a lot of bullshit.
The 2 character's barely even overlap. Mishima is awkward, but ultimately a normal highschool boy. Futaba is decidedly not. They have their own desires, different concerns (Mishima's desperate for attention and wants to get laid, Futaba wants to make the pain go away). The two character's operate on different tracks, and it's ridiculously to make a hard comparison just because you dislike how Mishima's treated. I dislike it too, but come on, there's no double standard here. He's a normal person indulging in shitty highschool boy things. He's been bullied and mistreated, but he still has the luxury of near complete freedom in his actions. Futaba's had to deal with the abuse she experienced from her uncle and the trauma she experienced from her mother's death which caused her to literally develop intense social anxiety and suicidal tendencies at the age of 15. Mishima's bullying was awful, but Futaba's issues were on a whole different magnitude. It's a moot point anyway, because having a "who's had it worse"-off is pointless and reductive.
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You know, if I didn't know any better i'd make the argument that Futaba has Asperger's syndrome. Either way, the game more than justifies why she's emotionally stunted, despite her mother's death happening 2 years ago.
EDIT: I don't thing Futaba's characterization falls under "zany hikkimori nonsense." She has a panic attack in her Confidant and they take it seriously.
EDIT 2: Don't date Futaba.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Isaac Otherworld
Member
I think Naoto from P4 is probably the closest to my personality still. My friends tell me I have a robotic emotionless disposition compared to most people. I think Yusuke or Makoto are the closest to me in this game though Makoto's desire to be a leader and Yusuke's passion for the arts and expression are big differences from me.
You can tell Akechi wasn't on the level from the beginning because he is introduced on as a TV personality enjoying the attention and playing the crowd while Naoto and Sae never bothered with that. Naoto only appeared on TV as a ploy to push the case forward. Professional.
You can tell Akechi wasn't on the level from the beginning because he is introduced on as a TV personality enjoying the attention and playing the crowd while Naoto and Sae never bothered with that. Naoto only appeared on TV as a ploy to push the case forward. Professional.
Amibguous Cad
Member
The 2 character's barely even overlap. Mishima is awkward, but ultimately a normal highschool boy. Futaba is decidedly not. They have their own desires, different concerns (Mishima's desperate for attention and wants to get laid, Futaba wants to make the pain go away). The two character's operate on different tracks, and it's ridiculously to make a hard comparison just because you dislike how Mishima's treated. I dislike it too, but come on, there's no double standard here. He's a normal person indulging in shitty highschool boy things. He's been bullied and mistreated, but he still has the luxury of near complete freedom in his actions. Futaba's had to deal with the abuse she experienced from her uncle and the trauma she experienced from her mother's death which caused her to literally develop intense social anxiety and suicidal tendencies at the age of 15. Mishima's bullying was awful, but Futaba's issues were on a whole different magnitude. It's a moot point anyway, because having a "who's had it worse"-off is pointless and reductive.
***
You know, if I didn't know any better i'd make the argument that Futaba has Asperger's syndrome. Either way, the game more than justifies why she's emotionally stunted, despite her mother's death happening 2 years ago.
EDIT: I don't thing Futaba's characterization falls under "zany hikkimori nonsense." She has a panic attack in her Confidant and they take it seriously.
EDIT 2: Don't date Futaba.
If you didn't know any better? They're practically reading out of the DSM in parts where Sojiro is like "I'M NOT GOING TO ALL IT AUTISM BUT LEMME TELL YOU ALL ABOUT THE TIME FUTABA TOTALLY EXHIBITED THIS AUTISTIC TRAIT." And hikkimori have a pretty large overlap with people on the autism spectrum.
I mean, that's a good thing. Atlus mostly did their homework on this one, and it's admirable Persona tries to do good on the representation side of things (gays aside, apparently).
But yeah, if you need any more reason for her to react to the way she did, that should be enough.
I know it's anecdotal, but my younger brother is on the spectrum and Futaba's speech patterns/mannerisms are totally reminiscent of how he acts. Every so often there's a snippet of her dialogue that tugs at me and makes me go "this is familiar." They even sit in the same way. And Erica Lindbeck apparently played Futaba as someone who was sorta on the spectrum.
But it's fucking Atlus
They're so goddamn conservative and concerned with pandering to basic otakus. I just doubt it ever crossed their mind, but who knows. It's unlikely we'll ever get confirmation either way.