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[Elaugaufein]

I know it's anecdotal, but my younger brother is on the spectrum and Futaba's speech patterns/mannerisms are totally reminiscent of how he acts. Every so often there's a snippet of her dialogue that tugs at me and makes me go "this is familiar." They even sit in the same way. And Erica Lindbeck apparently played Futaba as someone who was sorta on the spectrum.

But it's fucking Atlus

They're so goddamn conservative and concerned with pandering to basic otakus. I just doubt it ever crossed their mind, but who knows. It's unlikely we'll ever get confirmation either way.

Wut ? Conservative doesn't mean failing to address the particular issues you care about in the exact way you want them addressed.

Neither Naoto or Kanji are things conservatives like dealing with. Even if they aren't the things you'd prefer were being dealt with.

Shido is thinly veiled even by video game stand ins of Political Party standards.

 

[PK Gaming]

Wut ? Conservative doesn't mean failing to address the particular issues you care about in the exact way you want them addressed.

Neither Naoto or Kanji are things conservatives like dealing with. Even if they aren't the things you'd prefer were being dealt with.

Shido is thinly veiled even by video game stand ins of Political Party standards.

Okay, okay time out.

I don't think i'm getting my point across here.

Persona 5 is obviously super liberal and anti-establishment. No doubt about it. But it's just so frustratingly traditional when it comes to things like romance, sexuality and other issues that generally go ignored in gaming.

Naoto and Kanji are like the perfect example of that. Kanji isn't gay (and while his arc is good, he ends up throwing the concept of homosexuality under the bus). Same deal with Naoto. The conclusions to their respective arcs are actually super conservative (Kanji literally yells "make me a man, damn it!" at Naoto). So yeah, I'm not inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt here.

 

[Antiwhippy]

Kanji didn't have to be gay and naoto didn't need to be transgendered for P4 to throw them under the bus lol. Refer to my previous posts about them.

Like said before, the series wants to deal with serious, really serious issues, but then forget about it for fun anime bullshit. Which persona 5 isn't really that bad about.

 

[Antiwhippy]

edit: err, woops.

 

[Dany]

i hate mishima because he reminds me of myself

Ohh! You're an NPC!?

 

[Elaugaufein]

Okay, okay time out.

I don't think i'm getting my point across here.

Persona 5 is obviously super liberal and anti-establishment. No doubt about it. But it's just so frustratingly traditional when it comes to things like romance, sexuality and other issues that generally go ignored in gaming.

Naoto and Kanji are like the perfect example of that. Kanji isn't gay (and while his arc is good, he ends up throwing the concept of homosexuality under the bus). Same deal with Naoto. The conclusions to their respective arcs are actually super conservative (Kanji literally yells "make me a man, damn it!" at Naoto). So yeah, I'm not inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt here.

Their arcs are about gender stereotypes and their enforcement rather than sexuality (though it's hard to fully separate these things because gender and sexuality stereotypes are related).

There's nothing conservative about saying that traditionally feminine traits in males shouldn't be automatically be associated with homosexuality (though yes the way that was handled was cringeworthy at times) or causes your masculinity to be questioned.

Likewise Naoto's arc is that being feminine shouldn't hinder her being a detective but it does. Though I think they may have completely f'ed up communicating that Naoto doesn't want to be male or even present as masculine but feels she has to in order to gain respect as a detective which is what she wants to do and is clearly competent.

I mean these gender stereotypes may not be something you particularly care about being addressed as compared to say LGBTIQ matters but they aren't things that are conservative either. Conservative endings would be Kanji dropping his knitting and Naoto deciding to stay in the kitchen and give up being a detective.

 

[Marmaladefire]

I cannot believe I had to come back to this thread to see people hating on Futaba smh.

Beyond the Asperger's, she obviously has a severe anxiety disorder, which is taken pretty seriously except for the time they had to throw her in a bathing suit. All of the women except Sae have to fit into the waifu box, but there's definitely care in Futaba's characterization.

Mishma's had a hard road, but the thing is that the game WANTS you to hate him. You aren't supposed to sympathize with him beyond the Kamoshida abuses that apparently half the school has endured because he's an opportunistic fuckboy, unlike obnoxious but well meaning Ryuji or informative four legged fedora Morgana.

Also, Happy Birthday Akechi!

Spoiler

Keep on giving us Gemini's a bad name, like we needed help

Re P4: The gross part isn't the way that the arcs are resolved but the way that the game throws the communities that you *though* Naoto and Kanji may have been under the bus. Literally the game is saying "Don't worry! You aren't one of those people!" Then the way Naoto is sexed up after her arc to soothe the player's masculinity, ugh. Paired with Yosuke never getting called on his homophobia, it just doesn't play well. Some aspects of P4 really just age really badly imo. These aren't things you wouldn't see in a romantic comedy anime from the mid 00's but those are cringe too.

 

[Antiwhippy]

Wait, how is ryuji less opportunistic than mishima? My whole frustration with him is how opportunistic he is lol.

 

[Marmaladefire]

Wait, how is ryuji less opportunistic than mishima? My whole frustration with him is how opportunistic he is lol.

He's not. The game just wants you to sympathize with him, while it hates Mishima as much as the player initially does and never nudges you towards liking him anymore.

 

[Elaugaufein]

Wait, how is ryuji less opportunistic than mishima? My whole frustration with him is how opportunistic he is lol.

I actually agree with you on this. The primary difference between Ryuji and Mishima is that Ryuji got the actual magical powers and to be in the inner circle.

Whereas Mishima is weird, he knows you're the Phantom Thieves, never sells you out, draws problems to your attention but he's kept at a greater distance than Sae after November. Why ? Because.

 

[Antiwhippy]

Ehhhhh.

If that's what the game wants me to do it failed pretty spectacularly on my front.

When Ryuji was all like "Yo let's tell some girls that we're phantom thiefs and get some!" I wanted the game to give me an option to boot him off the team.

I actually agree with you on this. The primary difference between Ryuji and Mishima is that Ryuji got the actual magical powers and to be in the inner circle.

Whereas Mishima is weird, he knows you're the Phantom Thieves, never sells you out, draws problems to your attention but he's kept at a greater distance than Sae after November. Why ? Because.

I kind of thought he did sell us out to get some dates during his SL but I think he just says that he's admin? Can't remember.

 

[Marmaladefire]

I actually agree with you on this. The primary difference between Ryuji and Mishima is that Ryuji got the actual magical powers and to be in the inner circle.

Whereas Mishima is weird, he knows you're the Phantom Thieves, never sells you out, draws problems to your attention but he's kept at a greater distance than Sae after November. Why ? Because.

I would like to hear Hashino talk about Mishima. He seems like a direct throwback to Kenji in a lot of ways, except Minato was either too nice or didn't care enough to knock any sense into him, while Joker roasts Mishima anytime he looks in his direction.
He never sells you out, he just says he's admin and brings you along because you deserve to bask in the light of phan girls as well.

Ehhhhh.

If that's what the game wants me to do it failed pretty spectacularly on my front.

When Ryuji was all like "Yo let's tell some girls that we're phantom thiefs and get some!" I wanted the game to give me an option to boot him off the team.

Same. I couldn't handle him from mid august - october. Seriously the worst, and not because of the argument with M'organa. But that scene is gross Persona tradition, so I don't think it was supposed to come off as anything but "haha isn't he stupid and hot blodded! Oh well! Boys will be boys!"

 

[Isaac Otherworld]

Ehhhhh.

If that's what the game wants me to do it failed pretty spectacularly on my front.

When Ryuji was all like "Yo let's tell some girls that we're phantom thiefs and get some!" I wanted the game to give me an option to boot him off the team.



I kind of thought he did sell us out to get some dates during his SL but I think he just says that he's admin? Can't remember.

This is the single biggest issue with Ryuji. If these kinds of lines weren't in the game I would like him so much more. I also wanted the game to give me an option to boot him off the team for this.

 

[Stereogatari]

To be fair to Ryuji he prefers to hang out with the Phantom Thief girls. I'm pretty sure he mentioned that at the beach and only went to start hitting on randoms after the girls made their own plans.

 

[Antiwhippy]

And as much as i do say that i dislike that part of ryuji i recognise that it isn't really his "fault" in a way. It's his role to drive the team towards ruin in the story. They don't give you an ever increasing meter without making you watch it fall at some point.

But yeah, it's so obvious it kind of made me resent that role haha. And i kinda feel that they didn't really handle that part that well? Like ann is the only one other than ryuji who seem to do the whole blinded by fame thing but not even really that much? At that point they make it seem like your team was like ryuji except not really.

 

[Zolo]

The weirdest part is Haru beating herself over it too about how they got caught up in fame when the only mission she'd been involved in til that point was with her father.

 

[Lightning Lord]

The weirdest part is Haru beating herself over it too about how they got caught up in fame when the only mission she'd been involved in til that point was with her father.

Haru is just too nice for her own good.

 

[Curufinwe]

Ohh! You're an NPC!?

The most savage line in the game.

 

[Zolo]

The most savage line in the game.

Hey! NPCs are important!

 

[Lunar15]

Worth noting that Soejima lists Mishima as "The NPC" in the art book.

 

[PK Gaming]

Their arcs are about gender stereotypes and their enforcement rather than sexuality (though it's hard to fully separate these things because gender and sexuality stereotypes are related).

There's nothing conservative about saying that traditionally feminine traits in males shouldn't be automatically be associated with homosexuality (though yes the way that was handled was cringeworthy at times) or causes your masculinity to be questioned.

Likewise Naoto's arc is that being feminine shouldn't hinder her being a detective but it does. Though I think they may have completely f'ed up communicating that Naoto doesn't want to be male or even present as masculine but feels she has to in order to gain respect as a detective which is what she wants to do and is clearly competent.

I know what their arcs are about. Kanji struggling with his masculinity resonated with myself and many others. And yet, resolving it with a "it's not about whether I like guys or girls" led to problems. The game deliberately plays with the idea of him being gay (with his blatant attraction towards Male!Naoto), but then doubles back with a more general "it's fine, just be yourself." This would be acceptable if that was that, but the game does its damn best to portray homosexuality as undesirable afterwards. Yosuke's jabs and Kanji's constant "phew, imagine if I had been gay, right guys?" moments. The arena databook even describes Yosuke's jabs towards Kanji as "humorous" misunderstandings.

Naoto's arc is whatever. I don't think there's anything wrong with it in the sense that it's misleading (but the crude surgical set-up outright pretends that dysphoria doesn't exist hence why many people were upset by it.) The big issue with Naoto is that once the game reveals she's girl, she ends up becoming one of the "waifu's" and is subjected to all sorts of "totally-anime" girly hijynx like sexualization, crushing on the protag, etc.

I mean these gender stereotypes may not be something you particularly care about being addressed as compared to say LGBTIQ matters but they aren't things that are conservative either. Conservative endings would be Kanji dropping his knitting and Naoto deciding to stay in the kitchen and give up being a detective.

Oh come on. Don't try and paint me under the same brush as someone who's "upset" because Atlus didn't cater to my specific desires. It's not about that. The problem is that there's a recurring trend of them adhering to the "status quo", which is incredibly ironic given the subject material. Why else are gay jokes still the norm when nearly every other Japanese studio has eschewed them because they're offense? Why else can you date every female character, as if every girl is beholden to you (while gay romance options aren't even on the fucking table?). Maybe conservative was the wrong word, but they're traditionalists through and through. The idea of them doing anything radical is completely outside of the question.

EDIT:

Re P4: The gross part isn't the way that the arcs are resolved but the way that the game throws the communities that you *though* Naoto and Kanji may have been under the bus. Literally the game is saying "Don't worry! You aren't one of those people!" Then the way Naoto is sexed up after her arc to soothe the player's masculinity, ugh. Paired with Yosuke never getting called on his homophobia, it just doesn't play well. Some aspects of P4 really just age really badly imo. These aren't things you wouldn't see in a romantic comedy anime from the mid 00's but those are cringe too.

Exactly. I'm trying to avoid dog-piling on P4 lately but... yeah.

 

[tenderbrew]

Surprised at all the Ryuji hate. Him and Makoto were my favorite characters.

 

[Fou-Lu]

I finished the game! Loved every character and every cooperation. I definitely expected Akechi to be in the cells in the Velvet Room when you were rounding up your party members, missed opportunity as far as I am concered, but otherwise very well done plot. The final bullet that took down Yaldabaoth and the scenes leading up to it were so hype. Overall I rate it above both P3 and P4 for the massive amount of gameplay improvements and for how damn stylish it is. They each have their own strengths in themes and storyline, so I won't even try to choose a favourite there.

Makoto is my favourite character, though I found her cooperation a bit weaker than I'd like, but her main story presence and romantic scenes more than made up for it. Favourite cooperation was probably Hifumi or Tae, though it's hard not to love Sojiro.

 

[Bladenic]

The weirdest part is Haru beating herself over it too about how they got caught up in fame when the only mission she'd been involved in til that point was with her father.

LMAO I said the same thing

I was like "bitch the fuck you talking about, don't try and act like you been part of this crew of morons for more than a week

 

[LotusHD]

LMAO I said the same thing

I was like "bitch the fuck you talking about, don't try and act like you been part of this crew of morons for more than a week

People shitting on Haru for joining late never fails to make me laugh lmao

 

[FluxWaveZ]

People shitting on Haru for joining late never fails to make me laugh lmao

It also made me scratch my head when she was talking like she had been part of the Phantom Thieves since the start, when she had just joined. Almost seemed out of character or like someone missed something.

 

[Bronetta]

Haru really should have joined the team a little earlier.

 

[LotusHD]

It also made me scratch my head when she was talking like she had been part of the Phantom Thieves since the start, when she had just joined. Almost seemed out of character or like someone missed something.

Yup, I said/thought all the same things when I played lol

 

[QuantumSquid]

alright, this might not be the best place to ask this but

am i fucked?

i'm in the final dungeon (mementos depths), i'm level 64, and i'm only about halfway to the holy grail and i'm already running low on sp. i have one sp restoration item (leblanc coffee, +100 sp to one ally), and i don't have that many healing items.

i played spoiler free up until i got to mementos depths and then i got really bored in the area and decided to look up the ending. now i want to beat the game for myself (just to see all the cutscenes in order and nab the "you won!" trophy), but i'm worried my lack of sp will do me in.

 

[CrimsonFist]

alright, this might not be the best place to ask this but

am i fucked?

i'm in the final dungeon (mementos depths), i'm level 64, and i'm only about halfway to the holy grail and i'm already running low on sp. i have one sp restoration item (leblanc coffee, +100 sp to one ally), and i don't have that many healing items.

i played spoiler free up until i got to mementos depths and then i got really bored in the area and decided to look up the ending. now i want to beat the game for myself (just to see all the cutscenes in order and nab the "you won!" trophy), but i'm worried my lack of sp will do me in.

Talk to the twins outside the velvet room to heal. You can also visit the shops by trying to leave mementos.

 

[QuantumSquid]

Talk to the twins outside the velvet room to heal. You can also visit the shops by trying to leave mementos.

you can do that? what a relief!

i'm playing on normal, do you think level 70 is enough to comfortably beat the final boss?

i beat shido at level 60

 

[Elaugaufein]

you can do that? what a relief!

i'm playing on normal, do you think level 70 is enough to comfortably beat the final boss?

i beat shido at level 60

Spoiler

70ish should be fine. Even if it's not you can freely grind before hand, since the final boss 'gate' functions as a safe room and the attendent outside the velvet room still full heals you.
You do lose access to the shops though.

I know what their arcs are about. Kanji struggling with his masculinity resonated with myself and many others. And yet, resolving it with a "it's not about whether I like guys or girls" led to problems. The game deliberately plays with the idea of him being gay (with his blatant attraction towards Male!Naoto), but then doubles back with a more general "it's fine, just be yourself." This would be acceptable if that was that, but the game does its damn best to portray homosexuality as undesirable afterwards. Yosuke's jabs and Kanji's constant "phew, imagine if I had been gay, right guys?" moments. The arena databook even describes Yosuke's jabs towards Kanji as "humorous" misunderstandings.

Naoto's arc is whatever. I don't think there's anything wrong with it in the sense that it's misleading (but the crude surgical set-up outright pretends that dysphoria doesn't exist hence why many people were upset by it.) The big issue with Naoto is that once the game reveals she's girl, she ends up becoming one of the "waifu's" and is subjected to all sorts of "totally-anime" girly hijynx like sexualization, crushing on the protag, etc.



Oh come on. Don't try and paint me under the same brush as someone who's "upset" because Atlus didn't cater to my specific desires. It's not about that. The problem is that there's a recurring trend of them adhering to the "status quo", which is incredibly ironic given the subject material. Why else are gay jokes still the norm when nearly every other Japanese studio has eschewed them because they're offense? Why else can you date every female character, as if every girl is beholden to you (while gay romance options aren't even on the fucking table?). Maybe conservative was the wrong word, but they're traditionalists through and through. The idea of them doing anything radical is completely outside of the question.

EDIT:



Exactly. I'm trying to avoid dog-piling on P4 lately but... yeah.

I mean the playing with the idea of him being gay is sort of accurate ? At least when I was in high school being a male with feminine traits tended to get you labelled as gay or terms with similar implications (like sissies). Admittedly that was around the turn of the millenia in a rural Queensland (Australia) town. Gender and sexuality were kind of interlocked at that point in my experience. The wouldn't it have been bad stuff is bad yes.

I'm not sure how to respond to the bit on Naoto. I don't understand what about Naoto would preclude her crushing on protag. Or why that would be more anime hijinks than every other high school aged female S-Link in the game. Like some of the choices in her S-Link are creepy yeah, it ain't my business to tell Naoto how to express her identity (and more so the romantic route).


Part of this feels like questioning why you can date pretty much everyone of the opposite sex (and sometimes some of the same) in dating sim games. Which 3/4/5 definitely took cues from. The time management portion is like a straight out transplant from that time period. And those games aren't meaningfully different today than in 2007, except perhaps for them being well known enough to have ironic/parody versions as a sub-genre now.

And as to why some Hugh schoolers make gay jokes well that happened when I was at highschool and judging by anti-bullying programs with focus on LGBTIQ issues that exist in Australia it doesn't seem like its stopped. And Yosuke generally wasn't treated like he was being a dick because he was. The representation of gay people in Persona 5 though, is just fucked up no question there.

 

[Antiwhippy]

Was yosuke meant to be shown as an irredeemable dick, or is it just a shitty "boys will be boys" thing? The game doesn't call him out on it, and it's Kanji getting the brunt of it really.I feel like if we actually get a chance to rebuke him like we can with mishima I wouldn't have as much of a problem.

 

[Zolo]

Was yosuke meant to be shown as an irredeemable dick, or is it just a shitty "boys will be boys" thing? The game doesn't call him out on it, and it's Kanji getting the brunt of it really.I feel like if we actually get a chance to rebuke him like we can with mishima I wouldn't have as much of a problem.

More of the latter. He's supposed to be sorta obnoxious, but definitely not seen as much as one as a lot of the western fanbase sees him as. Compare him with Junpei and Ryuji who genuinely go through a character arc throughout the game to become better people.

 

[KO Traveling Hobo]

Was yosuke meant to be shown as an irredeemable dick, or is it just a shitty "boys will be boys" thing? The game doesn't call him out on it, and it's Kanji getting the brunt of it really.I feel like if we actually get a chance to rebuke him like we can with mishima I wouldn't have as much of a problem.

I got the impression that Yosuke's homophobic/creepy antics were meant to be seen as immaturity. Like the game recognizes that Yosuke's behavior isn't good, but it doesn't go all the way to painting it as fucked up.

Is it true that a Yosuke romance was cut? Or is that just a rumor/speculation?

 

[PK Gaming]

I mean the playing with the idea of him being gay is sort of accurate ? At least when I was in high school being a male with feminine traits tended to get you labelled as gay or terms with similar implications (like sissies). Admittedly that was around the turn of the millenia in a rural Queensland (Australia) town. Gender and sexuality were kind of interlocked at that point in my experience. The wouldn't it have been bad stuff is bad yes.

I'm not sure how to respond to the bit on Naoto. I don't understand what about Naoto would preclude her crushing on protag. Or why that would be more anime hijinks than every other high school aged female S-Link in the game. Like some of the choices in her S-Link are creepy yeah, it ain't my business to tell Naoto how to express her identity (and more so the romantic route).

The game doesn't play with Kanji's sexuality in a way that's remotely natural. Forget the feminine hobbies thing; he goes from having doubts about his sexuality, to 100% crushing on Naoto, with a near perpetual stream of reminders that he's "not like that anymore!" There was never a sincere attempt at portraying him as someone with a fluid sexuality beyond his initial arc, so it's not accurate in the slightest.

With Naoto, it's convenient how she starts becoming sexualized/crushing on you/etc after her gender is revealed. To quote Marmaladefire, it's almost as if they're soothing the players potential fears by reiterating that Naoto was in fact, a girl the entire time. Even Yosuke puts it into words by literally saying "you really are a girl after all!" Naoto's gender identity issues run pretty deep in her arc, but they don't really treat it all that serious after her initial arc concludes. In fact, they don't revisit, ever.

Part of this feels like questioning why you can date pretty much everyone of the opposite sex (and sometimes some of the same) in dating sim games. Which 3/4/5 definitely took cues from. The time management portion is like a straight out transplant from that time period. And those games aren't meaningfully different today than in 2007, except perhaps for them being well known enough to have ironic/parody versions as a sub-genre now.

I'm not questioning it, but using it to further my point. Instead of improving the romance system or making it more varied, they rigidly stuck to the same rote dating sim set up from P3 and P4. It's worse, given how you can romance every single female character in the game, which is something you certainly could not do in Persona 4. It's a blatant regression.

And as to why some Hugh schoolers make gay jokes well that happened when I was at highschool and judging by anti-bullying programs with focus on LGBTIQ issues that exist in Australia it doesn't seem like its stopped. And Yosuke generally wasn't treated like he was being a dick because he was. The representation of gay people in Persona 5 though, is just fucked up no question there.

The "Yosuke's just a teenager, so of course he's gonna make gay jokes" defense is so played out right now. The issue isn't coming from Yosuke himself (the intent is to portray him as immature), but it's how the game's frame it that's the problem. His many insinuations that Kanji is gay is ultimately treated as "playful jabs" on his part over outright bullying. Yosuke and Kanji almost have this pseudo comedy routine where every time Yosuke implies he's gay, Kanji threatens to beat him up. Atlus literally sees this as comedic.

And you bring up what it was like in your highschool, but homosexuality is treated far worse in Japan since it's a society that generally shuns people that are different. Anti-bullying programs are non-existent, and teachers outright avoid you if you confide in them about being gay. And we know from Persona 5 that Atlus doesn't take the concept of homosexuality very seriously, hence my original point. They were never portraying Yosuke's homophobia as a "douchebag, uninformed highschool thing."

So as I said originally, Atlus is ironically indulging in the status quo, the same status quo that Persona 5 spends most of the game criticizing. While modern Japanese games like Nier 2 and Fire Emblem: Echoes have made great strides in representation, Atlus is still stuck in the past. Hell even the people who worked on Persona 1/2 were more progressive than the newer team. Which is absolutely fucked when you think about it.

 

[Autoignition]

I got the impression that Yosuke's homophobic/creepy antics were meant to be seen as immaturity. Like the game recognizes that Yosuke's behavior isn't good, but it doesn't go all the way to painting it as fucked up.

Is it true that a Yosuke romance was cut? Or is that just a rumor/speculation?

There's some cut dialogue clips that seem to imply that his relationship with Yu got a bit deeper. It's really easy to hear them and think "this was a romance" but it's never anything concrete like a solid, "I love you." I don't know if the devs ever commented on it one way or the other, though.

 

[KO Traveling Hobo]

There's some cut dialogue clips that seem to imply that his relationship with Yu got a bit deeper. It's really easy to hear them and think "this was a romance" but it's never anything concrete like a solid, "I love you." I don't know if the devs ever commented on it one way or the other, though.

That's disappointing. Sounds like it could have just been like Ryuji's lines about how Joker makes him feel that sound romantic but aren't treated as such by the game.

 

[Lunafreya Nox Fleuret]

Now that i've finished the game...... I can say by far the biggest miss in the game was not being able to romance Sae. She was seriously the best written character in the game, imo. Such a dedicated woman and I really respect admirable women like her. Her development with Makoto was fantastic and I really wish we could know more. It felt clear that Sae likes Joker at the end to me... that confidant tease of her in the city man... it left me wanting so much more.

I honestly didn't expect some "god" to be the final boss but don't mind me as this is the first Persona game I actually finish. The rest of the series were only really snippets to me the past few years but I really want to play them all if possible. For a game that deals with shady men and murder etc... I just didn't see how the last scenario came to fit in. I mean it made SOME sense but it was a little rushed in character development on fake Igor and Lavenza (is she mentioned elsewhere in the game?) Don't get me wrong.... fighting gods is really cool (Xenogears is probably my all time favourite game) but it was a little random here. I was half expecting there to be someone in the prison manipulating Shido but certainly not a God.

Fantastic game though. I'd give it an easy 9/10 and only a few things keep it from a 10 for me.

 

[LotusHD]

Being able to date Sae would probably make me like her less.

 

[Antiwhippy]

The god is just a manifestation of the negative will of the people.

Just like 3 and 4.

3 was about death, 4 was about aversion from the truth, and 5 is the desire for complacency.

 

[Heartfyre]

One hundred hours and fifty minutes.

From the perspective of gameplay, easily the best in the series. From the perspective of story, well...I think I like it the least of Personas 3 through 5.

Many of the characters felt like tropey versions of those who came before. Ryuji is the angry/noisy one, like Junpei/Yosuke with a dash of Kanji. Makoto is the reserved, intelligent beauty, like Mitsuru/Yukiko. Morgana is the whiny mascot, like Teddie. Akechi is a straight-up Detective Prince like Naoto, but is most similar to Adachi -- even their names sound the same! While there were obviously similarities with the P3 and P4 characters, they were at least different enough to call upon the same character types twice...but this is the third time. I can see this wouldn't be an issue if this was your first Persona game, but I had a hard time loving this bunch as much as the earlier groups. That really came to a head at the ending, where, in Persona 4, I still have tears well up seeing the goodbye scenes, but here...I felt absolutely nothing.

These games survive mostly on the strengths of their characters, and I didn't connect with them this time. Overall, Persona 5's narrative felt like it was trodding on old ground. I was sad that Hashino was leaving the Persona series to work on his new fantasy game, but now that I've completed P5, I'm glad he's working on something new and different.

 

[Green Mamba]

Makoto and Mitsuru I can understand the comparison but Yukiko is nothing like them.

I do feel that Morgana was kind of just "oh, Teddie again" in terms of character design (though they're pretty different characterization wise) and he probably should have been something decidedly different. Like, Teddie was actually a pretty novel character design coming from P3.

I think the only thing that got me about something being needlessly similar ground retreading was Yaldabaoth's plan being basically the exact same as Izanami's--give a couple people Persona abilities and the ability to go to the other world and see what happens. Again, P4's requisite god was actually quite different from P3's, so P5's retreading established ground was kind of disappointing.

I am interested to see what a new director brings to Persona 6, but I fear that they may play it even safer due to expectations and lack of experience with the series.

 

[PK Gaming]

I don't agree with P5's cast being tropier versions of previous Persona characters.

• They were always going to make a character like Ryuji, and he's a lot closer to Junpei/Kanji than he is to Yosuke. Yosuke is neither angry or noisy (most of the time).
• Makoto is like Mitsuru with good writing.
• Teddie and Morgana are pretty different characterization wise, but they do a much better job of justifying Teddie's existence. Morgana ends up being the most phoned in character by the game's conclusion.
• Ann's similarities to Rise are superficial. They're pretty different in execution.
• Haru is also Mitsuru, but with good writing (Mitsuru was such a weird mish-mash of tropes, lol).
• Akechi is deliberately set up to be like Naoto to mess with expectations. They definitely lean into Adachi though, for the worse imo.
• Yusuke's pretty unique.
• Same with Futaba.

 

[Autoignition]

I'll never understand the comparisons of Akechi to Adachi. The only thing that they have in common is that they're detectives who killed people through indirect means. The characters don't at all resemble each other outside of that -- not in terms of personality, motive, method, or relationship with the protagonist.

Akechi's very much a bait-and-switch on Naoto. Comparisons to Adachi are tenuous at best.

 

[Stereogatari]

I'll never understand the comparisons of Akechi to Adachi. The only thing that they have in common is that they're detectives who killed people through indirect means. The characters don't at all resemble each other outside of that -- not in terms of personality, motive, method, or relationship with the protagonist.

Akechi's very much a bait-and-switch on Naoto. Comparisons to Adachi are tenuous at best.

Also Akechi's hee turn made more sense and had context. Adachi's literally just came out of nowhere. I never believed that one.

 

[PK Gaming]

I'll never understand the comparisons of Akechi to Adachi. The only thing that they have in common is that they're detectives who killed people through indirect means. The characters don't at all resemble each other outside of that -- not in terms of personality, motive, method, or relationship with the protagonist.

Akechi's very much a bait-and-switch on Naoto. Comparisons to Adachi are tenuous at best.

The similarities are admittedly superficial, but they are there. There's a similar nasty sprite change, they both take on a more unhinged disposition when the truth comes out, they share a similar rivalry with the protagonist (both even mock the concept of friendship) and they both have a "truth" that they're hiding from everyone else. Joker and Goro are both wild card users who were both chosen by Yaldabaoth power, similar to how Adachi and Yu were chosen by Izanami. Of course, the devil is in the details and they're pretty different in executions, but I can understand the comparisons. It's hard to put into words, but they give off the same "feeling" at times.

Also people ship them with their respective rivals, though JokerxAkechi is on a whole other level

 

[Afrocious]

Starting up a NG+ run. Gonna go for the final trophies I need which are to create Satanael, defeat The Wardens, and to complete the compendium.

I can chill a bit in this playthrough since I've maxed out all the social stats. I also have all of the Confidant presents you get on your last day. I wonder how nuts this playthough will be. I even bought P3, P4, and Catherine DLC to mess around in.

I'm in the prologue interrogation and just saw the butterfly. It's crazy how all this is with context. I didn't even know who Lavenza was back when I first saw this scene and she's the one talking.

Also, Yaldabaoth is the one telling you about the game right at the beginning where you have to consent. Funny funny.

 

[Green Mamba]

Also Akechi's hee turn made more sense and had context. Adachi's literally just came out of nowhere. I never believed that one.

I dunno, playing through P4 again after knowing the truth I thought it was pretty obvious that Adachi, with the proper context, was actually a deeply unhappy man. He hid it as jokes but there was always a twinge of deep seated angst in his lines.

I also found Adachi to be a much better and more believable character though. Akechi was cartoonish nonsense and feels really out of place in his own game--Adachi on the other hand is all too disturbingly real, much like most of P5's palace villains.

 

[Heartfyre]

I'll never understand the comparisons of Akechi to Adachi. The only thing that they have in common is that they're detectives who killed people through indirect means. The characters don't at all resemble each other outside of that -- not in terms of personality, motive, method, or relationship with the protagonist.

Akechi's very much a bait-and-switch on Naoto. Comparisons to Adachi are tenuous at best.

I found the comparisons glaring.

Personality: both are bitter and angry at the unfairness of the world around them or, specifically, to them.
Motive: Admittedly different -- Adachi didn't have a motivation besides the power rush and the thrill of murder, while Akechi just wanted to get closer to his sociopathic father.
Method: both used the Shadow World/Metaverse to kill people.
Relationship with the protagonist: a twisted association originally based around lying to each other, before they both acknowledge that they have a lot in common and that their relationship with society is broken and unfair, with both choosing to react differently and to fight it in their own way.