QuantumSquid
Member
let me be clear, i don't think persona 5 would be CONSIDERABLY worse without them. maybe like 0.5% worse. I just like that they're in the game, because it's funny to see sojiro's reaction to them on valentine's day.
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[SPOILERS] Persona 5 Spoiler Thread | Steal your heart; steel yourself
- Thread starter Nachos
- Start date
Idk but if I played as FeMC, I better be able to have her ride Iwai's dick into the sunrise.
Autoignition
Member
No. You wouldn't say that about Ann, who constantly has adult men hitting on her, so don't say it about Joker.
KO Traveling Hobo
Member
Joker is pretty calculating. He deliberately manipulates people into giving him what he wants(drugs, rhetoric lessons, etc), and there was the whole Akechi plan that spanned months. As for recklessness, he behaves in line with his characterization as gentleman thief / action hero.
And literally everyone is at a disadvantage when dealing with him because he has magical powers that let him understand how to break down the barriers around people's hearts and convince them to like him.
Talking about Joker like he's just a normal teenager is basically ignoring everything we know about him other than his age.
It's not an excuse, per se, but it is a direct result of the abuse he suffered at the hands of a shitty adult. "Fuck Mishima" is basically saying "fuck the entire message of the game".
Would he have been less creepy if he went around literally murdering people like Akechi?
QuantumSquid
Member
it's not a comparable situation. joker is successful in his pursuit of women like kawakami and takemi because of his charisma and empathy, whereas old dudes hit on ann simply because she's sexually attractive.
Mishima's pretty much Mitsuo from Persona 4 except Mishima tried to feel more important by helping out the thieves than by killing someone. He's also self-aware enough to realize his own problems about himself. Then, by the end of his confidance, he's learned the importance of helping people for the sake of it rather than doing it for oneself.
Cannon_Fodder
Member
I think that might be a more convincing argument if the romances worked differently. As it stands now, rather than making Joker look impressive it makes the women seem weak and without agency. Joker said they were sorta pretty one time like a month ago, so of course they love him forever now.
That's my problem with most Persona romances, but it just seems so much worse for the older women. That approach makes at least some sense for the high school girls, because people in high school are pretty uniformly idiots when it comes to romance. But a teacher? A reporter? What?
KO Traveling Hobo
Member
Some swole, mature, handsome young man shows up, solves all her problems including saving her from having to prostitute herself to pay her blackmailers with his magical powers while building a friendship with her over the course of several months. And despite all that, Kawakami still puts up a wall when Joker tells her he loves her. She doesn't relent until the very last rank, which I don't remember any other love interest doing in the series.
I agree that there are issues when it comes to character agency in social links, which feeds into greater problems of representation in the series, but the romances are a natural conclusion to the stories as written. No high school stupidity required.
Autoignition
Member
I disagree with this take as well, because I don't see those things as being "calculating." I see them as being reckless and not well-thought through. Tae, Kawakami, Chihaya, and Iwai all take advantage of Joker at the beginning of their Confidants. Sure, they all eventually turn around and the relationship becomes a bit more honest and real, but I don't see Joker's initial decisions as being calculating at all. It's not like Joker knew ahead of time that these people would turn out to be Confidants; for most of them, the bond doesn't trigger until after he does something stupid.
Need drugs for Metaverse. Sure, I'll undergo shady medical experiments in order to get them. What? No, she never offered to pay me. Or give me the drugs I need as payment. (The discount doesn't even come until much later.)
Found out my teacher moonlights as a sexy maid and it kind of gives me a boner. Hell yeah, I'll pay her 5,000 yen a night to see it again. What? No, it's not creepy and exploitative for a teacher to take money from her student. No, there is no other possible way for me to pursue this bond with her. Shut up. Boners.
Umm hell yes I want my fortune read. 100,000 yen? You got it, lady. (I legit would have never gotten Chihaya as a Confidant if I hadn't known ahead of time that she was one, because every bone in my body went FFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK THAT SCAM.)
Ridiculously curious about this weird gun that was handed to me. Sure, I'll get involved with Yakuza. What's the worst that could happen?
Even the whole Akechi plot thing was handled in the most dumbass reckless teenager way possible. They created this whole crazy convoluted plot that put Joker directly in harm's way and could have possibly fucked up his legal situation way, way, way beyond repair even if he lived (and, really, that was the path he was going down until they were able to track down that lady that Shido tried to assault), when they could've just as easily gotten counter-blackmail against Akechi (since it would've been real easy to snap a photo of him leaving the Metaverse, too, AND they had recorded phone conversations of him literally conspiring to commit murder ffs) or like... you know... just talked to him. Akechi sends out several cries for help during his time as a party member, and they all just fly right past the Theives' heads. (For god's sake, the boy fucking admits to being controlled at one point.)
And don't even get me started on him leaving Ryuji alone with two clear predators in Shinjuku.
Don't get me wrong. I. Fucking. Love. Joker. I love him to pieces. He is my boo, and I wouldn't change him for anything in the world. But he's kind of a reckless idiot. And I love that about him! But he is very much a teenage boy.
Okay, there's a lot to unpack here.
1. Spinning everything as "he was a victim of abuse" is the single most reductive way to look at a character, and that kind of thing isn't my jam. It's literally making his entire character about his abuse, which robs him of any agency and turns him into a tool rather than an actual character. People are more than just one thing, and they're shaped by more than just one experience.
2. Nearly every single character in this game is a victim of abuse in some form or other, and Mishima doesn't get a pass for having shitty personality traits just because he went through it, too. By this logic, no one's allowed to dislike Akechi or Ryuji, either.
3. It is perfectly possible and reasonable to say, "Fuck Mishima" while at the same time also feeling that he didn't deserve to get his face beaten in by Kamoshida on a regular basis. No one deserves to be in the situation that he was in, and I'm glad we got him out of it. That doesn't mean I want that little pecker around me, personally. I'm honestly surprised at the amount of people who seem to not understand this way of thinking, since it's the same mindset that a lot of the Phantom Thieves harbor with regards to Akechi. They all more or less go, "Like seriously fuck Akechi, but he still didn't deserve that."
4. Mishima and Akechi's personalities are so wildly different that you can't really compare them. The skin-crawly feeling that I get from Mishima is not at all similar to the skin-crawly feeling that other people get from Akechi. Mishima's a creep because he can't take no for an answer no matter how hard you rebuff him, and as a woman playing this game, I don't fucks with that. Even when Akechi was worming his way into your life, he never got creepily obsessive about his interactions with you, and he could read a situation well enough to know when to walk away. I never more wanted Mishima to fall through the game world than when he tried to room with me in Hawaii after I spent the entire game up until that point telling him to fuck off.
5. Mishima kind of tried to go down the path of violence anyway, though, too. So like, let's not give him a full pass for that. Don't pull out a gun at a diner you fucking weirdo what is wrong with you.
Iva Demilcol
Member
People hating on Ryuji and Mishima need some slaps.
The lack of empathy for a fictional character is disturbing to say the least, and on top of that you compare them to the worst character of the series (Junpei).
Mishima is the Moon, he's fucked up by definition, if you were expecting something different from him it's because you haven't paid attention to the archetypes of the arcanas. Poor guy was abused by his peers when he was in junior high. He was the type of kid who was always alone not because you didn't like him, but because a bunch of bullies didn't like him and you didn't want to become their next target. Then he goes to high school and he joins the Volleyball team to probably try to get some friends and recognition and we know how that worked out.
And then you have Ryuji... again impulsive by definition since he's the Chariot, all Chariot characters are like that: Chie, Kazushi and Ryuji. He accepts he was lost without you, yes he's stupid but he's the most loyal of all the party characters that have appeared in the series so far. He never gets as jealous and pathetic as Junpei nor does he get as bad as Yosuke partially because they are from a different arcana.
Yosuke and Junpei are immature by definition, the same as Kenji and Morgana (surprisingly). The only trait that Junpei and Yosuke share with Ryuji is that they get to meet you first, therefore they are your "bro". Don't forget also that in Persona 4 and Persona 3 characters from the chariot arcana are there with you from the very beginning too. Considering that Morgana is with you the whole time I'd say he's your "bro" too (except that... he's a cat).
Mishima and Ryuji could have some obnoxious traits but they are totally justified imo and they don't get as bad as Yosuke and Junpei... especially Junpei.
The lack of empathy for a fictional character is disturbing to say the least, and on top of that you compare them to the worst character of the series (Junpei).
Mishima is the Moon, he's fucked up by definition, if you were expecting something different from him it's because you haven't paid attention to the archetypes of the arcanas. Poor guy was abused by his peers when he was in junior high. He was the type of kid who was always alone not because you didn't like him, but because a bunch of bullies didn't like him and you didn't want to become their next target. Then he goes to high school and he joins the Volleyball team to probably try to get some friends and recognition and we know how that worked out.
And then you have Ryuji... again impulsive by definition since he's the Chariot, all Chariot characters are like that: Chie, Kazushi and Ryuji. He accepts he was lost without you, yes he's stupid but he's the most loyal of all the party characters that have appeared in the series so far. He never gets as jealous and pathetic as Junpei nor does he get as bad as Yosuke partially because they are from a different arcana.
Yosuke and Junpei are immature by definition, the same as Kenji and Morgana (surprisingly). The only trait that Junpei and Yosuke share with Ryuji is that they get to meet you first, therefore they are your "bro". Don't forget also that in Persona 4 and Persona 3 characters from the chariot arcana are there with you from the very beginning too. Considering that Morgana is with you the whole time I'd say he's your "bro" too (except that... he's a cat).
Mishima and Ryuji could have some obnoxious traits but they are totally justified imo and they don't get as bad as Yosuke and Junpei... especially Junpei.
Autoignition
Member
I've only played P4 in addition to P5, but I remember the Moon in that game having the same problems Mishima did: bitch would not take no for an answer. She went through the ringer, too, and had a fucked up social experience as a kid, and I totally got that and even felt that feel to a certain degree. But understanding people's plights and even being sympathetic to them doesn't mean you have to like being around them as people.
Autoignition
Member
Give yourself a little credit, bro. I genuinely enjoy talking to you.
Lightning Lord
Banned
Should also be noted that Morgana is actively encouraging him the entire time to pursue relationships with these people.
MiguelMexMIstery
Member
I can't hate Mishima. The dude is just eating with his friend and then some of his classmates randomly come in and start insulting him and making fun of him. WTF. The last thing he says to you in the final day is "But you can't laugh at me, even if I fail. Promise?"
No need to hate on scarf boy
Yup, totally agree. :/ #NeverForget
KO Traveling Hobo
Member
For sure the adults are exploitative in the beginning, but Joker picks his targets deliberately. It's give and take, which is why I find those relationships to be less dodgy than ones where the other person is utterly at the protagonist's mercy.
Blackmail seems outside of the PT's wheelhouse, the police don't give a shit about the metaverse, I don't think illegally procured recordings are admissible in court, and the PTs were trying to milk Akechi of all the information and help they could get. It was a carefully considered and executed scheme full of moving parts that went on for months.
I'm not spinning everything as "he was a victim of abuse". Mishima is a great character because of how he develops and becomes the person he was meant to be. However, Mishima's creepy obsessiveness is very obviously the result of having his self-worth grinded into dust by shitty adults. It is not healthy, normal behavior.
Everyone other than Akechi has friends who help and support them, and the PTs all get magic powers to facilitate their justice. Mishima continues to be treated like shit for the entire game, and all he can do is watch from the sidelines.
Because Mishima wasn't a mass murdering psychopath who gleefully murdered Demon Jesus.
That's because Akechi is a sociopath who was deliberately trying to manipulate you, while Mishima is earnestly desperate to find value in his miserable life.
I kind of remember a scene of Mishima pulling out a gun at the diner, but I don't remember the context.
Iva Demilcol
Member
You still deserve some slaps.
*Your relationship with Guess Who of the Moon arcana has reached level 1*
Let's not forget that it's Igor the one that encourages you to form bonds with the people around you, and Morgana knows this subconsciously. The idea of the social links is that just by being there for someone you can change their lifes, the confidants are a little bit different because their personal issues require your direct intervention.
*hugs
QuantumSquid
Member
it would have been super cool if akechi could have rejoined the party with the ability to use both robin hood and loki. having a character that can change personas beside the protagonist would have been neat.
Iva Demilcol
Member
That will happen in Persona Q2
Some of the party being soft on Akechi after he died in front of them didn't bother me. He got what he deserved.
Autoignition
Member
For Confidants? Citation needed. Lightning Lord raises a good point in that a lot of those start out just as peer pressure from Mona.
I think you're misunderstanding what I'm proposing. Akechi is a public figure. Leaking images onto the internet is way more damaging than tattling to the police. If Akechi's leverage over them is to out them as Phantom Thieves, then he goes down as one of them.
But even if we're going with the, "The Thieves wouldn't blackmail" reasoning, then a more elegant solution would be to just get that fucker arrested. Akechi's plot to murder Joker had nothing to do with the Metaverse. He was going to kill him in reality, in the real police station. If that recording was to ever get out, he'd have been arrested immediately. Shido didn't have full control over the police force -- Akechi even has to qualify with him that the officer standing guard over Joker's interrogation room would be "one of our own." It would've been a very easy way to nip the problem in the bud.
And if that still seems too scummy for the Phantom Thieves, then, again, there's no reason for them not to have just talked to Akechi about it, who was at some points just shy of literally begging for help. They didn't do that because none of them -- Joker included -- were emotionally adept enough or had enough life experience to pick up what Akechi was putting down. Because they're teenagers.
It really doesn't matter how carefully crafted a plan is if it's still the least safe, responsible, or likely to succeed of all viable paths. It's still indicative of an innate immaturity regarding the way Joker (and the Thieves) approach the world.
This doesn't mean that I am at all obligated to like Mishima's personality lest I run afoul of throwing the entire game's thematic structure under the bus.
I have no idea what this has to do with literally anything I said.
Yes. I recognized what both characters were doing immediately and why. I make no apology for Akechi. He's a villain. I've said in this very thread (I believe it was this one; might have been OT) that he falls very neatly under the category of Neutral Evil until he suddenly goes hard left into Chaotic Neutral, and I find that interesting for a character because it's not something that people generally encounter in real life. It's very easy to disengage from Akechi on a personal level and look at him just as a character in a piece of fiction, because most of us won't encounter actual literal murderers for realsies.
In Mishima's case, there are enough Nice Guys (TM) literally everywhere I go for me to shoot right past finding him interesting and going straight into "get this fucking fuck away from me." I do not owe Mishima or any man my attention or affection just because he does something nice for me. I do not owe Mishima or any man my attention or affection just because he has a tragic backstory and sees me as a possible escape. It is not my responsibility, and I do not appreciate the game making me feel as though it should be.
Am I projecting? Sure, I'll cop to that. But Mishima has so many personality traits that are nearly identical to the kinds of men in real life that make me physically nauseous to be around.
Is there really any context in which that's remotely acceptable behavior, though?
Re: Ryuji vs Mishima
Ryuji is one of the most well-realized characters in the entire game. Love him or hate him, there's pretty much no denying that he gets the most development out of anyone in the Phantom Thieves (barring maybe Futaba and Mona, and we all know the latter's arc goes nowhere) His backstory completely informs his actions in the main narrative (it turns out, having an abusive asshole dad tends to give you serious anger issues) and he's like the personification of the game itself; loud, obnoxious, really dumb at times, but endearing, passionate, idealistic and all about making a difference in the world. Also he's nice as fuck. It can't be understated how nice of a guy he is in spite of everything he's had to deal with (with the obvious exception of he treats Morgana)
And his arc is good too. Why wouldn't someone like Ryuji get drunk on power as a Phantom Thief? He literally has nothing else in life. And then you have his Confidant, where he essentially gets to relive being on the track team again, but instead of lashing out and screwing everything up for everyone, he endures abuse for the good of the team (Literally. He gets his ass beat) and it just all comes full circle in the best way (complete with him literally getting to screw over a pseudo Kamoshida, lol). His confidant also has moments like this which is just... jesus, I still can't deal with it. Also, everyone bags on him for being a liability but he literally saved everyone's life in Shido's palace. That's more than what Junpei and Yosuke did for their respective teams~
Mishima is probably the most perfect realization of an awkward highschool nerd fuccboi in the series. I think a lot of us guys could relate to being this pathetic sponge of a person when we were younger. Being super obsessive over everything, wanting to stand out, creeping on girls and not respecting them because you were too self absorbed? Most of us absolutely lived that shit. Real talk, Persona characters tend to be idealized in these sense that they're more likeable/charming than your typical teen, but Mishima's a really frank and honest take on a highschool kid who's kind of a loser. He's basically Yosuke if everyone realized how much of a dweeb Yosuke was, instead of glossing over his dumb shit. Unlike most anime games(and arguably even earlier Persona games), Persona 5 recognizes how obnoxious of a person Mishima can be. He's extremely clingy to the protagonist, but the game doesn't reward his loyalty, nor does it treat him as "bro." His arc is enttirely about learning how to stop using Joker (and the Phantom Thieves) as a tool to make himself feel better. He changes as a person without having his heart changed, and steps the fuck up in a big way during the ending. The genius of Mishima's character is that you don't have to be a shithead loser forever. You can grow up and change all on your own, without cool powers or a talking cat.
In short, they're both incredibly solid, well written and overall underrated as characters. Hateable? Sure. Bad characters? Hell no.
*drops mic*
Ryuji is one of the most well-realized characters in the entire game. Love him or hate him, there's pretty much no denying that he gets the most development out of anyone in the Phantom Thieves (barring maybe Futaba and Mona, and we all know the latter's arc goes nowhere) His backstory completely informs his actions in the main narrative (it turns out, having an abusive asshole dad tends to give you serious anger issues) and he's like the personification of the game itself; loud, obnoxious, really dumb at times, but endearing, passionate, idealistic and all about making a difference in the world. Also he's nice as fuck. It can't be understated how nice of a guy he is in spite of everything he's had to deal with (with the obvious exception of he treats Morgana)
And his arc is good too. Why wouldn't someone like Ryuji get drunk on power as a Phantom Thief? He literally has nothing else in life. And then you have his Confidant, where he essentially gets to relive being on the track team again, but instead of lashing out and screwing everything up for everyone, he endures abuse for the good of the team (Literally. He gets his ass beat) and it just all comes full circle in the best way (complete with him literally getting to screw over a pseudo Kamoshida, lol). His confidant also has moments like this which is just... jesus, I still can't deal with it. Also, everyone bags on him for being a liability but he literally saved everyone's life in Shido's palace. That's more than what Junpei and Yosuke did for their respective teams~
Mishima is probably the most perfect realization of an awkward highschool nerd fuccboi in the series. I think a lot of us guys could relate to being this pathetic sponge of a person when we were younger. Being super obsessive over everything, wanting to stand out, creeping on girls and not respecting them because you were too self absorbed? Most of us absolutely lived that shit. Real talk, Persona characters tend to be idealized in these sense that they're more likeable/charming than your typical teen, but Mishima's a really frank and honest take on a highschool kid who's kind of a loser. He's basically Yosuke if everyone realized how much of a dweeb Yosuke was, instead of glossing over his dumb shit. Unlike most anime games(and arguably even earlier Persona games), Persona 5 recognizes how obnoxious of a person Mishima can be. He's extremely clingy to the protagonist, but the game doesn't reward his loyalty, nor does it treat him as "bro." His arc is enttirely about learning how to stop using Joker (and the Phantom Thieves) as a tool to make himself feel better. He changes as a person without having his heart changed, and steps the fuck up in a big way during the ending. The genius of Mishima's character is that you don't have to be a shithead loser forever. You can grow up and change all on your own, without cool powers or a talking cat.
In short, they're both incredibly solid, well written and overall underrated as characters. Hateable? Sure. Bad characters? Hell no.
*drops mic*
QuantumSquid
Member
PK gaming speaks the truth.
i'll bet if Mishima wore something besides cargo pants he would be way more successful with girls
i'll bet if Mishima wore something besides cargo pants he would be way more successful with girls
Stereogatari
Banned
Another thing I like about Ryuji is that he's honest about his lack of intelligence and admits when he doesn't understand something.
I only finished the Takemi and Mishima social links, so of all of them Mishima was my favourite. Because I actually hated him and would get annoyed by his texts at one point in the game. So for him to turn it around and make me respect by the end gets my applause.
I only finished the Takemi and Mishima social links, so of all of them Mishima was my favourite. Because I actually hated him and would get annoyed by his texts at one point in the game. So for him to turn it around and make me respect by the end gets my applause.
I really love the soundtrack to this game, but I was disappointed that there wasn't a unique track for daily life after you faked your death. It was just some kinda generic track that you've heard a million times before throughout the game. Both P3 and P4 had daily life music change after major events.
Maybe they thought having different versions of Beneath the Mask was enough?
Maybe they thought having different versions of Beneath the Mask was enough?
KO Traveling Hobo
Member
I loved Ryuji when he wasn't 1. trotting out the tired "horny anime teenager" trope that the series has been using for its main bro every game 2. being a glorymonger. He started and ended strong, but I felt he hit a slump in the middle of the game.
"I don't like Mishima because he reminds me of shitty creepy dudes IRL and I play games to get away from that shit" is something that I totally get.
"I don't like Mishima because he's a creepy shitty dude who deserves to be bullied by the PT, and he doesn't deserve my help as a Phantom Thief because he's a scumbag" is something I don't get.
Lightning Lord might be right that it falls on Morgana. I just remember Joker approaching each of those people because they had something of value and they were more likely to give it to him based on their situations.
They knew that Akechi was just a pawn. That's why they didn't leak images on the internet or turn in evidence to the police. They were using him to keep tabs on their opposition, and to glean information about the people above him.
You don't have to like his personality, but I think not wanting to help him when you have the power to do so does go against the theme of the game.
Sorry, I should have bolded the relevant bit of your post:
I literally kept a list of mounting clues at the beginning of the game indicating that Mishima would be the psycho mastermind because he was that shady - but as the game goes on, it becomes obvious that he is a victim desperately in need of support that no one else will give him.
"I don't like Mishima because he reminds me of shitty creepy dudes IRL and I play games to get away from that shit" is something that I totally get.
"I don't like Mishima because he's a creepy shitty dude who deserves to be bullied by the PT, and he doesn't deserve my help as a Phantom Thief because he's a scumbag" is something I don't get.
When you imply that it was indicative of him following Akechi's path of violence, context is important.
the_sun_king
Member
Preach, PK. Preach.
Autoignition
Member
Right. And there was another point raised that Morgana could have sensed something from each of them due to his being created by Igor, but at the time that these Confidants started, neither Joker nor Morgana knew that. So, really, it was just Joker being bullied by his pet cat to mess around with Yakuza.
Which is kind of hilarious, honestly.
I love Joker so much, man.
This is why it's a tragedy that the Thieves were just teenagers, because with the right amount of positive reinforcement, Akechi would've cracked like an egg and sold Shido out to them in a heartbeat.
I mean. I try to 100% all social links in Persona regardless of how I feel about the characters (which was kind of grueling in 4 because half of them were honestly kind of boring), so Mishima got his fair shake from me (and Joker). I just don't like him.
Honestly I'm kind of annoyed that his Confidant perks are so good, because when I go through NG+ I tend to just skip the social links that I don't want to be bothered with anymore because I think they're uninteresting or I just don't like them. But due to perks, I max him out every time, all the while wanting to put my head through the wall.
Yeah, totally sorry if it came off like I was saying the second one and not the first. The first one is 100% my stance on Mishima, and the second one comes off as incredibly scummy to me.
I only raised the point because we somehow got on the topic of comparing him to Akechi, but ultimately I don't find it to be all that important. I really don't think they should be compared at all, tbh. They're radically different characters that serve completely different roles in the narrative.
KO Traveling Hobo
Member
Morgana was the shitty adult all along. Dear god.
All's well that ends well!
I loved that scene.
Green Mamba
Member
"....
Nishima, get the hell out of my booth."
KO Traveling Hobo
Member
"....
Nishima, get the hell out of my booth."
Futaba is handling those awkward nerd bants. Stand down, Joker.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Actually this thread made me realise something. I'm completely ok with mishima because he really is basically yosuke if he was called out for the loser he is and not completely homophobic.
Genuinely like this post. Completely agree on these characters.
I don't think that excuses every scene with Ryuji (some of them are just lame), but he's overall a pretty great character. I enjoyed having him in the party and I felt pretty sad saying goodbye at the end.
As for Mishima: Yes - He is the video game embodiment of the type of loser who gets into activism for all the wrong reasons, but ultimately realizes what the point of it all is.
Yep. He just needed to remember they're there to create rivers in the desert.
QuantumSquid
Member
if persona 4 was created today, yosuke wouldn't be afraid of people thinking he's gay.
After seeing how P5 handled homosexual characters, I'm not too sure about that.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
As evidenced by the 2 gay predators in this game.
They sure aren't afraid to show that they're gay.
QuantumSquid
Member
Stereogatari
Banned
I prefer Yosuke not being gay tbh. I know this will sound a roundabout kind of logic, but it's interesting for a flamboyant expressive character like that to be heterosexual. I know it wasn't intended like that, but that's how I see it.
I related to Yosuke a lot. The way he goes on hyperbolic grandeur diatribes about the human condition and nature was great. I'm like that too lol. Made me think that I should take up painting (I already do channel a lot of these feelings through poetry).
I related to Yosuke a lot. The way he goes on hyperbolic grandeur diatribes about the human condition and nature was great. I'm like that too lol. Made me think that I should take up painting (I already do channel a lot of these feelings through poetry).
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Are we confusing Yosuke with yusuke again? 
QuantumSquid
Member
...we're talking about YOsuke
you're talking about YUsuke
leave it to atlus to give two characters basically the same name
ALL TRUTH
MiguelMexMIstery
Member
Doesn't help that both of them have the same Ultimate Persona...we're talking about YOsuke
you're talking about YUsuke
leave it to atlus to give two characters basically the same name
Doesn't help that both of them have the same Ultimate Persona
Lmao seriously. They ran out of names for both characters and personas it seems
QuantumSquid
Member
wait what? they have the same ultimate personas? i did not know this
...WOW
I guess I never made the connection because I played P4G and in P4G, Yosuke's ultimate persona is takehaya fireball head.
...WOW
I guess I never made the connection because I played P4G and in P4G, Yosuke's ultimate persona is takehaya fireball head.
Isaac Otherworld
Member
Mishima is like Shinji Ikari in that people relate to him too much and resent the things about themselves they see in him. He is A Shadow. The True Self. You have to accept him to unlock your persona.
Objectively Futaba is a worse person than he is. I have no sympathy for hikikimori types and she has some of the cringiest dialogue. I don't hate her either.
I have really mixed feelings about the adult relationships in the game. Within the context of the game itself they are objectively wrong and gross. But on the other hand, as a grown ass adult I feel way more comfortable roleplaying someone and choosing to date an adult than choosing to date a high schooler.
Objectively Futaba is a worse person than he is. I have no sympathy for hikikimori types and she has some of the cringiest dialogue. I don't hate her either.
I have really mixed feelings about the adult relationships in the game. Within the context of the game itself they are objectively wrong and gross. But on the other hand, as a grown ass adult I feel way more comfortable roleplaying someone and choosing to date an adult than choosing to date a high schooler.
Ooh, shots fired