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[SPOILERS] Persona 5 Spoiler Thread | Steal your heart; steel yourself
- Thread starter Nachos
- Start date
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Nah mishima is like one of the few characters that actually has good developement instead of "phantom thieves come to magic away your problem!"
KO Traveling Hobo
Member
I wonder what Mishima's reception would have been like if he was a cute girl instead.
Lol, just because I dislike him doesn't mean I don't recognize his growth, as well as his admittedly decent S-Link.
More people would like him for obvious reasons, and probably be more sympathetic considering Kamoshida and how that could... change things.
WrenchNinja
Member
Never forget that saatanel wouldn't have shown up without Mishima
KO Traveling Hobo
Member
He was already a teenager getting the shit beaten out of him on a regular basis by an Olympic athlete who was supposed to be his teacher while being forced to be his abuser's lapdog and having his self-worth atomized in the process. I feel like anything beyond that is getting into sufferlympics hairsplitting.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Nah, we can always rely on flower pants dude.
KO Traveling Hobo
Member
The true unsung hero of the world. SLink when?
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Also Mishima is like Ryuji except he's an actually good character.
In the crimson you can choose to play as flower pants dude.
In the crimson you can choose to play as flower pants dude.
I still think making Mishima's big moment optional was a huge misstep on their part
KO Traveling Hobo
Member
the_sun_king
Member
KO Traveling Hobo
Member
Antiwhippy is taking no prisoners.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
To be fair if I had to hang out with Mishima as much as I have to with Ryuji I'd probably hate them both just about the same.
Autoignition
Member
Mishima's worse than Ryuji by a country mile, and this is coming from someone who hates Ryuji.
They're both the dictionary definition of the term "fuckboy" but Ryuji at least has some scenes where he's kind of normal and okay.
They're both the dictionary definition of the term "fuckboy" but Ryuji at least has some scenes where he's kind of normal and okay.
F0rneus
Tears in the rain
Jesus.........the hottest of takes.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Like what though, seriously.
For real, they're both fuccbois (which coincidentally was my PT name >_> <_<), but Ryuji had so many more scenes where he's messing up for us than mishima ever does.
Meanwhile Mishima is a fucking dweeb but that's all he is really, just a dweeb.
At least Mishima's redemption is waaaay better done than Ryuji's.
Let me just say I'm biased though because I haaaaaate Ryuji.
Isaac Otherworld
Member
One thing I wish they had done was that when Akechi died in Shido's palace he later appeared dead hanging off of a light pole or some other high up place, just a nod to P4 and what happens when people died in the metaverse in that game. I was kind of bummed when they said he simply disappeared.
Nishima > Ryoji. Nishima is a dweeb but he's ultimately harmless.
Ryoji is dumb, unnecessarily mean to Morgana and is too often a huge liability. With how often he's seen walking around in public talking how he's a Phantom Thief it's shocking that the secret didn't just become public knowledge and the group getting arrested long before Makoto caught the gang.
I don't hate either of the two but I find Ryoji to be the worst first buddy out of him, Junpei and Yosuke. Yosuke could be a dick but aside from his homophobia, it seemed like it mostly came from him being playful but tactless. We've had this archetype show up in three Persona games in a row and it's wearing thin.
Nishima > Ryoji. Nishima is a dweeb but he's ultimately harmless.
Ryoji is dumb, unnecessarily mean to Morgana and is too often a huge liability. With how often he's seen walking around in public talking how he's a Phantom Thief it's shocking that the secret didn't just become public knowledge and the group getting arrested long before Makoto caught the gang.
I don't hate either of the two but I find Ryoji to be the worst first buddy out of him, Junpei and Yosuke. Yosuke could be a dick but aside from his homophobia, it seemed like it mostly came from him being playful but tactless. We've had this archetype show up in three Persona games in a row and it's wearing thin.
Get_craycray
Banned
I don't know who's worse: Mishima or Yusuke.
They both are crap IMO.
They both are crap IMO.
Agreed except on the part about being mean to Morgana. That little bitch talked mad trash to Ryuji since day 1, then it gets all caught up in its feelings when Ryuji starts roasting it back.
Autoignition
Member
It's not really a matter of "messing things up for us" in my eyes. Yes, quantitatively, Ryuji is the bigger fuckup pain in the ass. But in terms of personality, if I had to choose between being locked in a room with Ryuji or being locked in a room with Mishima, Ryuji wins every time. A good chunk of Ryuji's Confidant showed off a side of him that was pretty decent (and in some moments downright sweet between him and the MC), whereas I never, ever had a moment with Mishima where I wanted to do anything other than to bodyslam him. (And at least Ryuji stood up to Mr. Rapeoshida, whereas Mishima just let him ruin Shiho's life. That's a real big one for me.)
Like, you guys know how I feel about the adult romances in this game and how desperately I wish for them not to exist. But a buddy of mine asked, "Okay, say they introduce gay romances. Iwai or Mishima?" My immediate response was, "Iwai. Without question or hesitation. It'll be a cold, cold day when I choose to do anything with Mishima other than tell him to go fuck himself."
I think it's because Mishima reminds me of so many awkward, thirsty boys who creeped on me personally in real life, whereas Ryuji's more of that obnoxious fuckboy in gym class that inspired me to cut the damn class every other day.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
I mean it's not like mishima wasn't abused by kamoshida. I know that you're more emphatic towards victims of sexual abuse but it's not like boys can't get mental blocks from physical abuse too. Like ryuji would probably honestly go down the same path if he didn't get his persona awakening.
To me they both essentially follow the same arc. They both started out on the Phantom thief path, lost their way due to personal and highly selfish reasons, and then realised the errors of their ways. Except i can deal with mishima moping in his contained little arc instead of ryuji spending 3/4 of the game being angry and irrational. And that i can actually call mishima out on his shit and have him learn from it while i keep telling ryuji to calm down but he didn't take the hint until it's too late. Which i know is a story thing but hey, i can like the concept but hate the character.
To me they both essentially follow the same arc. They both started out on the Phantom thief path, lost their way due to personal and highly selfish reasons, and then realised the errors of their ways. Except i can deal with mishima moping in his contained little arc instead of ryuji spending 3/4 of the game being angry and irrational. And that i can actually call mishima out on his shit and have him learn from it while i keep telling ryuji to calm down but he didn't take the hint until it's too late. Which i know is a story thing but hey, i can like the concept but hate the character.
Autoignition
Member
That's fine. Again, I'm not talking about this in terms of consistency of writing or character development. Just in terms of personality traits, fuck Mishima. Fuck him so hard. I hope that when he dies, he dies alone (and probably will).
But I mean. While we're on the topic, Ryuji was also abused by Kamoshida long before the MC ever moved to Tokyo. Lost full use of his leg for a while over it and caused the track team to disband. So let's not act like he was acting from a position of higher standing than Mishima was in terms of dealing with that scumbag.
And to be perfectly clear, I hate Ryuji. I'm not trying to stan for him here. I just hate Mishima so much more.
poipoipoi9
Member
Why would anyone hate Mishima? You get to bully him consequence free in his SLinks! That more than makes up for it.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
The thing is that ryuji felt similarly trapped by kamoshida before he got a second chance due to his meeting with MC and getting the power of rebellion. Not really trying to go who's better or worse in regards to that really.
I think we can both agree that they're terrible people and leave it at that.
I like it. I was thinking Figor as in Fake Igor, but yours is better.
Every time I talk about the twist I triple check I'm in the right thread, cause spoiling it for anyone would be horrendous.
Green Mamba
Member
The only worse characters than Akechi in the game are the pair of awful gay stereotypes.
Akechi seriously sucks. Most disappointing character in Persona history.
Akechi seriously sucks. Most disappointing character in Persona history.
WrenchNinja
Member
We're probably going to see more of him since Japan likes him so much
Akechi is pretty disappointing.
Cannon_Fodder
Member
I really like Akechi and I still agree. Up until the end of Palace 6 though he was my favourite character. It's a shame how that worked out.
Autoignition
Member
It seems weird to think that Atlus ran out of time considering how long this game was in development, but when it came to Akechi, it legit felt like they ran out of time to tie off that character's story properly.
Hell, I'm the biggest Akechi stan on NeoGAF, and I think so.
Cannon_Fodder
Member
At points it felt like the lack of meaningful resolution was on purpose (Akechi is just another forgotten victim of the system, yada yada) but if that's what they were going for they still didn't do enough to sell that. In a game so full of repetition, there's a weird amount of story elements left uncooked in comparison.
Also, high five for liking Akechi despite the... issues!
KO Traveling Hobo
Member
It seems pretty obvious that they just wanted to leave room to have him come back in the enhanced edition/Arena/etc.
Stereogatari
Banned
He was a loser dick at first but end lf his arc he became respectable.
KO Traveling Hobo
Member
Mishima has the type of personality that would drive me up the fucking wall IRL, but jesus the lack of empathy for a teenage victim of constant physical and psychological abuse continues to blow my mind. Especially from people complaining about the adult romances.
The worst part about Akechi is how the party and the story clearly want us to feel sorry for him. Up until that point, it was made clear that the reasons each villain had didn't excuse what they've done. It also added to me liking Ryuji since the text convo once you get back after he dies pretty much has Ryuji go 'He did a lot of bad shit, so I don't feel sorry for him.'
QuantumSquid
Member
shido's battle theme is probably my favorite song from the entire OST.
also why do people have a problem with the adult romances? aren't the laws for that sort of thing different in japan?
also why do people have a problem with the adult romances? aren't the laws for that sort of thing different in japan?
Autoignition
Member
I can feel sorry for his situation and still want him to fuck off out of my life. They're not mutually exclusive things.
idgaf about Japanese consent laws. The very concept of adult romances undercuts the game's major theme of power imbalances between adults and minors. It's godawful writing.
If the game had been about literally anything else I don't think I'd have cared so much about having adult romances. I might have given it a side-eye because I personally find it skeevy, but I wouldn't have been like DELETE THIS ENTIRELY IN THE RE-RELEASE.
For me personally, I feel bad for everything he's gone through. But I still don't like his personality, and simply put I would never hang out with someone like that. That said, considering what he's gone through and my role in his story, I'd be willing to lend an ear to him if he ever wanted to talk I guess.
Yea, Ryuji felt like the closest one to saying "Fuck this dude" I recall Haru and Futaba not being 100% empathetic towards him too, but man, that whole scene really irked me.
Just felt like it undercuts some of what they were doing with the writing and themes and such. Obviously not a 1:1 thing with Kamoshida, but yea...
Can't even reall give them the benefit of the doubt of it being some moral thing that players have to figure out, because it's basically guaranteed that they did it just to pander and satisfy people's fantasies.
Like I love Becky and Takemi, and I could easily justify going after them if I decided to in a future playthrough, but man, it just didn't need to be in here.
KO Traveling Hobo
Member
Considering that Joker is Independently Wealthy Magical Psychic Demon Summoner with Supernatural Charisma, I would argue that the adult romances are the ones with the least power imbalance. Joker is so clearly in a questionable position of power over everyone else in the game, especially the people his own age.
I know you were joking, but "Fuck him so hard. I hope that when he dies, he dies alone (and probably will)." is just a weird thing to say about a teenage abuse victim while talking about the writing conflicting with the game's theme.
It's also implied he actually managed to get a date for Valentines.
Autoignition
Member
I would disagree with this take. Joker's still very much a reckless idiot teenage boy in a lot of ways, and there were times in the game that I side-eyed his decisions. There's a certain sense of advanced planning and self-preservation that hasn't yet been fully formed in his brain, which puts him at a natural disadvantage when it comes to dealing with adults.
Yeah, I was definitely taking the piss. I know my posts have weird tone whiplash sometimes, but that's just how I do. My honest thing with Mishima is that I'm sympathetic to his situation, but it's not an excuse for him to be such a creep. Like, he legitimately gives me the heebies. He didn't deserve what Kamoshida did to him, but I still don't like him and I don't want to be around him. Ever.
QuantumSquid
Member
i think persona 5 would be a worse game without the adult romances.
ALSO, consider this perspective:
the game is about the power imbalance between teenagers and adults. so isn't joker kind of sticking it to the adults by saying "i'm only a kid and yet i'm more successful with adult women than most adult men"?
ALSO, consider this perspective:
the game is about the power imbalance between teenagers and adults. so isn't joker kind of sticking it to the adults by saying "i'm only a kid and yet i'm more successful with adult women than most adult men"?
Its a really epic statement
