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Star Wars The Last Jedi Spoiler discussion thread: THERE WILL BE UNMARKED SPOILERS!

Cimarron

Member
Sigh. I was entertained but I was very disapointed.

Pros

-War criminal Poe. Best Star Wars pilot ever. He made some poor military decisions and was mutinous but I still liked his dumb ass.

-Space Cruiser missile. AWESOME! Reminded me of the Daedalus maneuver in Robotech.

-Hux. I like him. Don't know why. :p

Cons

-Rey. I like her personality and acting but gawd. She really is a Mary Sue. This is compounded by to the fact that she is no one. Some country girl out of no where is capable of taking out trained military professionals with is in hand to hand combat? I can get down with her being overwhelmingly powerful but her skill set annoys me to no end. Yet again she wins fights against much more skilled opponents. If she brute forced folks I'd be ok with it.

-Finn. I had high hopes for you man! He hasn't done anything useful. He seems to have nothing of use in his skill tree.

-Phasma remains trash tier.

-Snoke was pretty awesome until he went out like a punk.

Killed my enthusiasm for the final chapter.
 

longdi

Banned
People say that TLJ breaks tradition, but i dont see how? The only difference i see is Kylo is alone now (not a bad thing), while Rey continues to mary sue her way since Luke is dead (zero training confirmed).

We are still on Resistance vs Empire ^yawn
The ending follows ESB
We still needed Jedi powers to save everyone
All said and done, Luke still tells us the Jedi will live on!

It only breaks itself trying to break tradition.

Killed my enthusiasm for the final chapter.
I wonder if there will be another 2 episodes to go?
Because TLJ moved at snail pace, with its back drop being the whole First Order fleet tailgating the main resistance fleet...pewpewpew
 

Crazylegs

Member
I loved it. There were holes and unexpected character deaths, but I still loved it overall. I got a very similar feeling from it to what I felt seeing A New Hope for the first time back in 1977 (opening week!).

I get some of the criticism (Leia's Superman run was handled badly). But a lot of the criticism I'm seeing boils down to:

"The plot didn't go the way I believe it was supposed to!"

and

"There wasn't enough exposition about a lot of stuff"

To me it's pure escapism in a familiar Universe, and I'm okay to check my brains at the door (a little bit) and enjoy the ride.
 

Shouta

Member
I loved it. There were holes and unexpected character deaths, but I still loved it overall. I got a very similar feeling from it to what I felt seeing A New Hope for the first time back in 1977 (opening week!).

I get some of the criticism (Leia's Superman run was handled badly). But a lot of the criticism I'm seeing boils down to:

"The plot didn't go the way I believe it was supposed to!"

and

"There wasn't enough exposition about a lot of stuff"

To me it's pure escapism in a familiar Universe, and I'm okay to check my brains at the door (a little bit) and enjoy the ride.

Nice thing about the story is there's just a lot to digest about themes and there's quite a bit that changes how the other films can be seen. For me, it's what the franchise has kind of needed for a long time, at least the movies. There's always been the spectacle of it but to get one that lets you think a little more is pretty fantastic.
 

TGO

Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
Sigh. I was entertained but I was very disapointed.

Pros

-War criminal Poe. Best Star Wars pilot ever. He made some poor military decisions and was mutinous but I still liked his dumb ass.
But was he dumb? They made him look dumb by withholding information that actually cause a unneeded subplot for Fin and got a bunch of rebels killed and for what?
Holdo to go "surprise we had a plan all along, we just wanted to make you look like an idiot before revealing it"
Just dumb and poorly written.
I still think the film can be saved with a directors cut with alternative scenes
A lot of editing saved New Hope afterall.
 

Cimarron

Member
But was he dumb? They made him look dumb by withholding information that actually cause a unneeded subplot for Fin and got a bunch of rebels killed and for what?
Holdo to go "surprise we had a plan all along, we just wanted to make you look like an idiot before revealing it"
Just dumb and poorly written.
I still think the film can be saved with a directors cut with alternative scenes
A lot of editing saved New Hope afterall.

He was directly responsible for the loss of the bombing fleet. I don't know if it was worth taking out the dreadnought.
 

TGO

Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
He was directly responsible for the loss of the bombing fleet. I don't know if it was worth taking out the dreadnought.
Well that whole scene was stupid
1 X-Wing taking out all the guns while everyone watches and I thought I was watching Space Balls when it started with Hux and Poe.
In fact I think it's actually in Space Balls.
 

thequestion

Member
Luke's character was assassinated.

Ray can do anything and everything perfectly, for reasons???

Kylo's motivation is that he hates Star Wars.

Finn had to visit the prequel movies with a new character shoe-horned in to appease a foreign market.

The new order has never heard of a pincer attack or a blockade to corral a fleeing enemy.

Fuck this movie.

Are the people who are loving this film the same people who love the transformer movies and think all the marvel films are 10/10 entertainment?

I don't get it.
 
-War criminal Poe. Best Star Wars pilot ever. He made some poor military decisions and was mutinous but I still liked his dumb ass.
I couldn't blame him for being mutinous when the acting commander had no communication skills and he thought the whole resistance was going to die.
 
My biggest gripe with this movie was the Leia scene when she floats back in from space. I get it she is a Skywalker and channelled the force to bring herself in, but that was awful. I wonder how they're going to put her in Episode IX? more cgi?

I wish Snoke would of had more of a back story, they could of easily ran with - he was Darth Plagueis and pieced himself back together after being killed, only to come back and take over the First Order.

I'm not buying that Rey's parents are nobody's who sold her for drinking money, unless she goes on to discover her bakcground/ family and that family becomes the new "Skywalker family" as I've seen previously this trilogy is supposed to be the last involving the Skywalker's which seems to make sense.

Everything else I really enjoyed, I loved the cameo with Yoda returning as a force ghost, I thought Luke's exit was a proper Jedi exit and Mark Hamill did a great job. Before I figured out what Luke was doing, I was wondering how he briefly looked younger as he made his way into the rebel base before heading out to meet Kylo Ren.

I loved Kylo Ren and Rey teaming up to take out the guards, that was a great scene. Actually their scenes together throughout the movie were pretty good, casting was much better this time than the prequels.
 

gioGAF

Member
I enjoyed the movie overall, but was ultimately disappointed.

- Just about all of the space battle sequences were awesome.
- Really enjoyed Poe
- Finn/Rose arc was next level shiite. It was pointless and completely wasted Boyega who was very enjoyable in The Force Awakens.
- Enjoyed Rey/Kylo arc for the most part. I could even accept Snoke going out like a punk if it wasn't for the next point:

What happens with Luke in this film is horrible. Character assassination to the max. Here is the legendary hero of the original trilogy, the hero who fought to the end to redeem his father, considering murdering his nephew because he sensed some darkness in him. Seriously, wtf!

Rey gets to him and he chucks the light saber over his shoulder like some stupid cartoon. I almost expected a laugh track to go off during that moment. He could have said, no I don't want to train you, but that light saber would still have had great meaning for him.

Then we think we are getting an epic Luke moment at the end, but it is just a trick that goes nowhere, and on top of that he dies from exhaustion or something, so that means we don't get uber Luke now or ever for that matter.

It took me a while to process the Luke story in this movie, but now that I have been able to think about it, it is nothing short of abysmal.

So happy JJ is coming back to finish this trilogy. Hopefully he can close it out on a high note. Rian Johnson ignored so many plot points from TFA and downright shit on many more from the originals. I can't understand how Disney commissioned a trilogy under this guy's supervision and at this point I am not looking forward to them at all.

Dark times indeed. At least they can't take TFA away from me, which I enjoyed immensely (flaws and all).
 
Empire Strike Back
A New Hope
Return of the Jedi
Rogue One
The Force Awakens
The Phantom Menace
The Last Jedi
Revenge of the Sith
Attack of the Clones

Maybe.
 

kunonabi

Member
Empire
Hope
Sith
RO
Force Awkens
Return of the Jedi
Last Jedi
Phantom Menace
Clones

Disclaimer: I absolutely believe ESB and ANH are without a doubt the two best movies in the series despite my personal list not reflecting that.

AotC
ESB
ANH=RotS
TPM
RotJ

The two ewok movies

TFA
TLJ
RO
 
Return of the Jedi
Empire Strike Back
Revenge of the Sith
The Phantom Menace - Gave us Qui Gon and also Maul vs Qui Gon/Obi wan
A New Hope
Rogue One
The Force Awakens
Attack of the Clones
The Last Jedi
 

Gtafans93

Member
Empire Strikes Back/Revenge of the Sith
Return of the Jedi
Attack of the Clones
The Last Jedi
The Phantom Menace
A New Hope (for me this is outside of my list. I think it's the weakest of the OT but it's the first star wars film so it's outside of my list)

Ewok films




The Force Awakens
 

havaska

Member
Empire Strikes Back
A New Hope
Return of the Jedi
The Force Awakens
Rogue One
The Last Jedi
Revenge of the Sith
Attack of the Clones
The Phantom Menace
 

pramod

Banned
Empire Strikes Back
A New Hope
Return of the Jedi
Rogue One
Revenge of the Sith
The Last Jedi
Attack of the Clones
The Force Awakens
The Phantom Menace
 

Crazyorloco

Member
Now that I think about it...I like Revenge of the Sith more than The Last Jedi. In ROTS I was engaged in the story throughout and couldn't wait to see what happened next (even though I knew what was going to happen).

I hope that the next star wars film focuses on character development/backgrounds more. I want to care about these characters. I just don't in The Last Jedi. Let them all die.
 

ShodanMAN

Member
1. Empire Strikes Back
2. A New Hope
---^Good Movies^---
3. Force Awakens
4. Rogue One
5. Return of the Jedi
---^Average with problems^---
6. The Last Jedi
7. Revenge of the Sith
---^Flawed Movies^---
8. The Phantom Menace
9. Attack of the Clones
--^Terrible Movies^---
 

Shouta

Member
What happens with Luke in this film is horrible. Character assassination to the max. Here is the legendary hero of the original trilogy, the hero who fought to the end to redeem his father, considering murdering his nephew because he sensed some darkness in him. Seriously, wtf!

Have you seen the sequence at the end of RoTJ recently? He did end up saving his father but Luke almost killed Vader out of anger when he found out about Leia by probing his mind.

What happens in TLJ with Luke and Ben is totally in character for Luke. When he admits the truth of what happened to Rey, he says that he had that single moment of murderous intent but it was there and then passed quickly. However, that was enough to cause the rift and sent Ben down the path of the dark side to become Kylo Ren. Luke has always had an emotional aspect to him and has overcome it but it just wasn't enough this time.

Anyway, since we're doing lists, mine as of right now is:

Empire Strikes Back
A New Hope
The Last Jedi
Return of the Jedi
Rogue One
Force Awakens
Revenge of the Sith
Attack of the Clones
The Phantom Menace
 
The chase plot is really dumb man.

You've got Snoke's ship and like 6 star destroyers and all they send out is 3 tie fighters and apparently TIE fighters can only pursue at a certain range.

what the hell?

TIE fighters chased the Falcon deeeeep into the asteroid field in Empire without a problem. Way too many coincidences and contrivances are required for that plot thread to make any sense

On top of that, all the red shirt nobodies who died could have been saved if Holdo bothered to tell Poe and everyone else what the plan was. "Hey we're going to Crait and we're gonna use cloaked transports to escape."

Wow that was easy...but nope. 2 hours of runtime down the drain on a plot thread that doesn't need to exist.
 

kunonabi

Member
Attack of the Clones is your personal #1? How?

Despite the film's issues, of which there are many, there were still elements that resonated with me that I just love going back to it.

I enjoyed the angle they took with Anakin's development. Even looking outside of the stuff with his mother there are some smaller beats that connect with OT Vader in ways that I thought worked very well. McDiarmid continued to kill it as Palpatine and I enjoyed his scheming and the seeds of him manipulating Anakin. It wasn't super overt which I thought was the right idea.

Obi-Wan's detective story was great. Yoda and the younglings, Kamino, Jango being an actual badass unlike his son, the whole thing just worked.

Anakin's side of things was rougher due to the dialogue but I thought Hayden's physical presence and acting is a bit underrated and there were some touching moments with Watto and Shmi that I appreciated. I'm also fairly easy to please when it comes to love stories so I had no trouble getting invested in the Padme/Anakin stuff despite some of the dialogue.

William's work on the score was absolutely incredible and the sound design had some excellent moments particularly the seismic charges during the asteroid chase.

The action sequences were all really exciting and different outside of the droid factory sequence and the lightsaber duels at the end.

Lucas obviously isn't that great a director but there are some beautiful moments and I liked the camera work during the big battle on Geonosis. I thought that segment did a better job of being a "war movie" than Rogue One did personally.

I'm a huge Christopher Lee fan so him having a role in SW film is always going to be a plus.

I also much preferred how Lucas approached subverting expectations. The clones being tools of the republic instead of this outside threat and positioning Anakin close to what you would expect out of Luke's father instead of what people were expecting from a young Vader. Seeing the parallels in their personalities and situations and how Anakin couldn't overcome them like Luke did was the right idea as far as I'm concerned. They aren't mirror images of course but I find the way the film starts to paint the Jedi as being partially responsible for Anakin's fall and how they almost repeated the same mistakes with Luke to be far more effective than TLJ subverting expectations merely for the sake of being divisive.

There are plenty of things about the movie that I would love to change but I really enjoyed what it went for and the new worlds, situations and the context it provided. I was just at point in my life where it really connected with me personally and when it comes to SW that's really all I ask for.

It's a messy movie to be sure, although not rogue one messy, but outside of some of the humor it just really fits my own sensibilities. I totally get everyone else not liking it though.
 

BibiMaghoo

Member
So I watched the film finally after reading all the spoilers I could get, so I went in expecting the worst.

I was actually surprised that the only thing I found real issue with was the superman scene. That she survived I could deal with, that she seemingly has a power no other trained jedi has had is also Ok. What is not cool is the way it was shot, that pose, the scrolling camera, it was awful. I cringed harder at that than any tame joke or goofy moment. They could have done the same thing easily without it being that bad, and that in a way is what makes it so poor an effort. They should have had her bubble and be picked up and taken to medics instead. That would have saved the scene entirely while still being a wow moment.

Every other complaint I read seemed overblown. Reys parentage could still be in question, snoke may not be dead in the traditional sense, Luke almost certainly isn't and I found his character correctly motivated for his actions.

A good film, but it feels like an inbetween film, rather than its own movie.
 

TGO

Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
Return of the Jedi
Empire Strike Back
Revenge of the Sith
The Phantom Menace - Gave us Qui Gon and also Maul vs Qui Gon/Obi wan
A New Hope
Rogue One
The Force Awakens
Attack of the Clones
The Last Jedi
I can agree with this, probably swap A New Hope to a higher position but yeah.
 
I'm kind of glad they got rid of Snoke so quick. I feel he would have been like Negan from the Walking Dead and just smash all the progress the resistance makes for the next 4 movies. At least Kylo shakes things up a bit and we get to see him go crazy as the main dude in charge.

I also am okay with the way Luke went out, he's basically on some Gandalf the White shit now. Just look at Yoda, we was able to use lightning strike on the tree as a ghost so Luke will definitely have come powers in the next movie.
 
Lukes character was fine. Luke Skywalker of the old movies was a boring ham fisted copy pasted hero-hero. He was boring and much less interesting than anyone else.
That Yoda actually grills him was awesome. It kept Luke from being recycled into a Ben Kenobi 2.0. I am glad that Luke was flawed and manipulated. He is much more interesting now than he was in the original movies.



People hoping that Snoke is darth plagueis is interesting. It is possible that Snoke returns in the next film. That will be up to Ron Howard. But the question is if that is going to be meaningful at all. "HAHA- I wasn't really dead. I am immortal" doesn't sound particularly interesting to me.
Neither does it sound interesting to make Snoke some sort of shounen palpatine 2.0. We've already had a bunch of movies with a powerful sith emperor. What is the point of telling that story again?


To me, the first order is like the successor state of ancient rome. Here are all these wannabe people trying to immitate the great legacy of the empire, but they are all amatures and the great wisdom, power and skill has been lost with the collapse of the empire.
Kylo is a total amateur, and why wouldn't he be. He hasn't been trained or tested in a galaxy full of jedi. He has no sense of permanence or of what it means to be powerful. He seems like a powerful force user who is on a 6th grade level. And that makes sense canon-wise.

To me, these films are much smaller in scope. This trilogy is not about stopping the destruction of the universe with weapons who can destroy entire planets. And thats nice for a change. Its nice that the stakes are smaller. This is more like a skirmish between two factions.



My guess is that the trilogy that comes after episode 9 will probably increase the odds again. maybe it will evolve into a fate-of-the-galaxy type affair. But one can hope that this new trilogy of movies will take place in a new timeline, like The Old Republic. Skywalkers story should end with Episode 9.
 

Jezan

Member
i dont know why they would NEED the cruiser for that though. The smaller frigates were already being destroyed. Two or three of them could have pounded them enough. The First Order definitely wasn't ready for that sort of attack.

There were no rules established for this sort of attack, so the question of "why didn't they do that before" is pretty logical. They didn't have to wait for everyone to start dying. They were evacuating the ships already and letting the frigates get blown up
True, this movie is a clear display of good guy idiots getting people murdered cause of their heroics.

But you'd think Kamikaze attacks would be a well established tactic. Specially if you can hit them with something at light speed. Anything is going to do damage, but these aren't smart movies... so its a total waste to even think about..
Any ship would do enough damage at light speed, except that I don't know who decides the physics of SW universe. I mean, when the auxiliary ships ran out of fuel, they slowed down....in space ???? and they were also "falling down" (?) to where? And why did the captain of those aux ships stayed there? Just leave a droid with auto pilot and save those humans. So I don't think a smaller ship would dent the dreadnought.

Also why are there like only 3 aliens on the resistance?
 

pramod

Banned
To me, these films are much smaller in scope. This trilogy is not about stopping the destruction of the universe with weapons who can destroy entire planets. And thats nice for a change. Its nice that the stakes are smaller. This is more like a skirmish between two factions.



My guess is that the trilogy that comes after episode 9 will probably increase the odds again. maybe it will evolve into a fate-of-the-galaxy type affair. But one can hope that this new trilogy of movies will take place in a new timeline, like The Old Republic. Skywalkers story should end with Episode 9.

How did you come to that conclusion though? For me, I still have no idea just how large or small the scope or stakes are right now. Just how big or powerful is The First Order? In one movie we see them have the power to destroy multiple planets in an instant, the next they seem to be no more than a rag tag bunch of Star Destroyers. There is no world building or details filled in for us at all, we're left to guess at all of this stuff by ourselves.
 

Jezan

Member
But was he dumb? They made him look dumb by withholding information that actually cause a unneeded subplot for Fin and got a bunch of rebels killed and for what?
Holdo to go "surprise we had a plan all along, we just wanted to make you look like an idiot before revealing it"
Just dumb and poorly written.
I still think the film can be saved with a directors cut with alternative scenes
A lot of editing saved New Hope afterall.
Well tbh Poe is an asshole in this movie. "She is General Holdo? I expected something else" and then with his low rank he wants the General to explain the plan to him? He is the reason why they have no fleet anymore and bieng only a captain , Holdo doesn't need to tell him anything, besides he fucked up Holdo's plan by sending Finn and Rose, they fucked up and now the FO found out their ships leaving.

Poe killed more people in this movie thanks to his selfishness than Hux did.

Than again it's pretty bad writing, starting with the mom joke.

The conflict feels pretty small though, how big is the FO when they send their many people to pursue the small Resistance ship.
 
If you have someone like Poe who's a hot headed pilot, you'd probably want to sit him down and explain the details of your plan so he won't go and do anything stupid to fuck it all up.
It's also possible that Poe would have done something stupid anyways.
 

Starfield

Member
im just glad JJ Abrams will make the 9th movie. He understood how to make comedy subtle but not annoying. TFA's humor was like in the old SW movies. I think he can make a good last one.

Whoever did TLJ should never be able to make another SW movie again.
 

Fnord

Member
im just glad JJ Abrams will make the 9th movie. He understood how to make comedy subtle but not annoying. TFA's humor was like in the old SW movies. I think he can make a good last one.

Whoever did TLJ should never be able to make another SW movie again.

They've handed the dude that did TLJ the entire next trilogy.
 

TGO

Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
They've handed the dude that did TLJ the entire next trilogy.
It took him 4 years to write TLJ and forgot have Fin got his injury or didn't anyone else notice Poe's jacket was magically fixed in TLJ.
I have no faith in him he basically took SW and did what Luke did to Anakins lightsaber and he'll do it again.
 

MEsoJD

Banned
This movie was such a disappointment... While I liked certain aspects of the movie, I have no motivation to see it again in the near future and that's a terrible feeling.

Pros:
-Visuals/Art Direction was fantastic for the most part.
-Action was entertaining. Dog Fights, Red Guard Fight, etc..
-Rey/Kylo/Luke: Most interesting arcs of the movie.

Cons:
-Scope/ Clusterfuck: There was a lot going on in different places and it felt claustrophobic.
-Finn Character/Story Arc: I just don't feel the importance of this character anymore. I was bored the majority of the time he was on screen.
-Subverting Expectations to the extreme: While I like the unexpected, this movie was too much. Some things like Leia surviving the vacuum of space was just ridiculous (just stay dead...fuck). Luke and Kylo: this just seemed redundant and felt messy.
-Throwing out character arcs from the previous film: While I'm not completely opposed to this. Throwing things out like "Reys Parents" is daunting.
-Too Long?: I don't mind a long movie, but put most of your focus on what's interesting. (Rey, Luke, Kylo, force talk, light saber fights and dog fights)
-Forced Humor: Need I say more?
-Luke's Character: Despite the performance. For example, the character just tossing his lost light-saber is crazy. Despite his failures, I don't think it was a realistic reaction.
I may have more to add.
 

Fbh

Member
Just saw it. Put me on the didn't like it camp. This was overall really disappointing and at several parts just plain bad

It could give the Hobbit a run for its money in terms of being unnecessarily long.
Wtf was that Finn storyline ? It was boring, often cheesy and just felt 100% like filler .
It's like they had Finn and they knew they made him seem semi relevant in the first movie but now they had no idea what to do with him. Then in the end they have him fighting Phasma, which they also didn't know what to do with, in an underwhelming encounter.

While I didn't really like TFA either I at least liked how it set up some questions and mysteries...most of which are answered here but just not in a rewarding way. I can get behind Rey's parents just being some nobodies but Snoke seems to just have been some random strong force user that is now irrelevant.

Kylo still seems like a crappy villain and while they wanted it to feel like he had some Character evolution in this movie I'm not really seeing it.

Even the Rey on Lukes island plotline was too long and not really relevant. I would have even taken a generic training arc over that...but it's not needed since Rey is basically amazing at everything she does.

Even visually it looked bad IMO. Except for the final location this was one of the uglier high budget movies of recent times. Lots of very obvious green screen effects. Which is a shame since TFA, if nothing else, looked great IMO

I'm just not feeling this new trilogy. The characters do nothing for me and the story is pretty uninteresting . Everything is messy and gives the impression that they are making it up as they go
 

xandaca

Member
My take seems different from most other people's, so I've c+p'd it below. I know this is the spoiler thread, but I go through the entire movie, so be aware.

First, a quiz. Below is a bullet-point summary of a Star Wars movie:

* The movie opens with the rebels on the run.
* The protagonist goes to meet an exiled master for training. The master, disillusioned and retired, senses in the protagonist a conflict and anger that allowed darkness to prevail before. However, he agrees to the training after being reminded of something from their past.
* In the B-plot, the second lead heads to an establishment known for gambling in search of allies. One is found, but turns out to be working for the enemy. However, the second lead begins to realise he has feelings for the person accompanying him.
* The main protagonist is lured back into the fray, their training incomplete, believing they have a chance of confronting the villain. They fail, but a close connection between them has been established.
* The movie features a battle between a rebel holdout and an AT-AT-led enemy force on a planet whose dominant colour is white.
* At the end, when all seems lost and the rebels are almost completely vanquished, the Millennium Falcon arrives to save the day. Despite all their losses, there is a sense of hope.
* The movie's central theme revolves around how well-intentioned rashness and giving into anger and conflict only leads to darkness and loss.

So, as should be obvious by now, my question is... is the summary for THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK or THE LAST JEDI?

For the record, I mostly enjoyed the movie, moreso than Force Awakens at least. Rian Johnson has a keener sense of the tone and style of pulp sci-fi than Abrams, and I like how most of the 'revelations' feel like a middle finger at Abrams' inane 'mysteries' from Force Awakens. Luke Skywalker's character arc is an inspired turn for the character, and Hamill really sells the thirty-years of crushing disillusionment at his own failures. Adam Driver is secretly one of the most nuanced actors working today, and he has this trilogy's most complex character in Kylo Ren. Rey, like Finn, is still a bit of a cypher, but Daisy Ridley is settling into the role nicely. Turning General Hux into a dimwitted punching bag is a very entertaining shift for the character. Laura Dern has a nothing character, but seems genuinely honoured to be there and her short scene with Leia is touching. Aesthetically, the movie looks great and the lightsabre fights, picking up from one of Force Awakens' strengths, have a real sense of danger and physicality to them. Also, the fun, mischievous Yoda from the OT is back!

Downsides. Well, the second movie in this trilogy rehashes almost everything plot-and-theme-wise from the second movie in the original one. The movie nods to deconstructing the Star Wars mythos, but only on a very superficial level, almost all of its subversions related to stuff only introduced the movie before - though admittedly, the revisions are welcome. The stretch in Space Monaco hints at the movie's most interesting world-building ideas (the black market traders arming the First Order and Rebels alike) but does little with them beyond reminding us that the dark and light are opposite sides of the same perpetually spinning coin, which is basically the Star Wars mission statement. Killing Snoke was a well-played move, putting a small spin on Vader killing Palpatine in RoTJ, but this time for evil rather than good. Dramatically, however, it basically changes nothing. Similarly, everything to do with Finn and his subplot feels like being reminded the characters exist so we don't forget when they're, hopefully, given something useful to do. And Gwendoline Christie is given unacceptably little screen-time, again.

When the movie actually achieves something approaching deconstruction, it works in the moment, but like all forms of deconstructivism, fails to realise that tearing something down is not the same as building something new in its place. Obsessing over deconstructing something ties you as firmly to that supposedly being deconstructed as those participating in it in the first place. The subversions that work don't take away how everything surrounding them is a second successive rehash - with minor variations, of course - and ultimately, achieve nothing. Two movies in and to all intents and purposes, this trilogy and its characters finds itself in the same place the original did at the end of ESB. At a generous stretch, one could say the movie is saying that those who seek to destroy the past are those most doomed to repeat it. However, for all this movie's merits - and it certainly has a good number on its own terms - it remains, at the end, little more than another echo.

EDIT: Remembered one of the plot points I described was echoing RoTJ, not ESB, so edited it out of my bullet points. I think my overall point still stands, though.
 

Mattdaddy

Gold Member
Empire
Hope
Sith
RO
Force Awkens
Return of the Jedi
Last Jedi
Phantom Menace
Clones

I think this is my list too. With everything between Sith and ROTJ being very close.

As for this one....

Leia superman-ing across frozen space was so dumb. Just terrible.
Rose is my new Jar Jar. Every time she opened her mouth I rolled my eyes.
The barrage of crappy jokes that didn’t fit and fell flat got old super quick.
Then entire casino subplot was a massive wet blanket.

And the icing on the cake... my god. When Rey backs up Luke in the stick duel then cowered him with his own lightsaber I swear to god I could have walked out of this piece of shit. The more I think about it the more this movie pisses me off.

If you would have told be a week ago I was glad JJ was coming back I would have told you you were high, but here we are.

Oh I’ll give due though, the light speed ramming and the throne room battle were very dope.
 
1. Empire Strikes Back
2. A New Hope
---^Good Movies^---
3. Force Awakens
4. Rogue One
5. Return of the Jedi
---^Average with problems^---
6. The Last Jedi
7. Revenge of the Sith
---^Flawed Movies^---
8. The Phantom Menace
9. Attack of the Clones
--^Terrible Movies^---

Stealing this list it mirrors my tastes exactly
 

thequestion

Member
What if Ray never left that dark side cave? Everything that happens after the moment where she sees multiple reflections of herself, was just a vision of a potential future.

Episode 9 opens with Luke pulling Ray out of the cave....
 

BizzyBum

Member
I wonder how people would react to the OT in today's age.

"ESB was okay, but we're 2 movies in and who the fuck is this Emperor guy we know nothing about!?"

AotC
ESB
ANH=RotS
TPM
RotJ

The two ewok movies

TFA
TLJ
RO

My man has Attack of the Clones as his favorite Star Wars movie. Holy shit.. LOL
 

luxsol

Member
I enjoyed the movie overall, but was ultimately disappointed.

- Just about all of the space battle sequences were awesome.
What space battles?
The ones where the bombers were destroyed one by one when moving super slowly toward the dreadnaught, where the last one got destroyed a little bit at a time super slowly with no pilot at a snail pace just to dump a cluster of bombs over it?
Awful.
Poe's XWing taking on a dreadnaught all by himself? Fucking wat.
Did any of the neu-Star Destroyers even fire a shot in the entire movie? Fucking why were they even there?
The NW shooting at super slow moving convoy doesn't even count as a space battle.

Fucking why didn't they even call it for a fuel tanker to refuel if ships could light speed in and out at will? Why the fuck didn't the transport light speed away? Fucking dumb. Hell, why not just split the fleet up as they all go in different ways to light speed if there was only a single ship that could track them?

Awful stupid movie with so much wasted time, wasted characters, wasted plot lines. Everything was a waste.

So happy JJ is coming back to finish this trilogy. Hopefully he can close it out on a high note. Rian Johnson ignored so many plot points from TFA and downright shit on many more from the originals. I can't understand how Disney commissioned a trilogy under this guy's supervision and at this point I am not looking forward to them at all.

Dark times indeed. At least they can't take TFA away from me, which I enjoyed immensely (flaws and all).
He fucking started this shitty mess and you want him back? They need to fire him and reboot this shit instead. Fucking Justice League is better than this awful crap.
 

caffeware

Banned
What if Ray never left that dark side cave? Everything that happens after the moment where she sees multiple reflections of herself, was just a vision of a potential future.

Episode 9 opens with Luke pulling Ray out of the cave....

Hopefully episode 8 was just a bad dream.
 

tanooki27

Member
Nice thing about the story is there's just a lot to digest about themes and there's quite a bit that changes how the other films can be seen. For me, it's what the franchise has kind of needed for a long time, at least the movies. There's always been the spectacle of it but to get one that lets you think a little more is pretty fantastic.

well said.
 
In all seriousness what exactly are we looking forward to in the next episode there was nothing left that was open to look forward to...?

There is no need for any kind of closure whoever wrote this did not know how to write a Star Wars movie.

It’s entertaining film but for the movie that Mark Hamill is going out on in the last movie will see princess Leia in again?

Also does anyone think it would have done princess Leia more justice to have her Die off when they did so instead of making her a God.

I’m sure they could have digitally erased her scenes.
 

Jezan

Member
My take seems different from most other people's, so I've c+p'd it below. I know this is the spoiler thread, but I go through the entire movie, so be aware.



EDIT: Remembered one of the plot points I described was echoing RoTJ, not ESB, so edited it out of my bullet points. I think my overall point still stands, though.
That's a nice way to put it. I think RJ wanted to make fun of older fans but he went overboard with it.

People waiting for Luke to fight the first order but Leia is more powerful now, she survived vacuum of space.
 

kunonabi

Member
In all seriousness what exactly are we looking forward to in the next episode there was nothing left that was open to look forward to...?

There is no need for any kind of closure whoever wrote this did not know how to write a Star Wars movie.

It’s entertaining film but for the movie that Mark Hamill is going out on in the last movie will see princess Leia in again?

Also does anyone think it would have done princess Leia more justice to have her Die off when they did so instead of making her a God.

I’m sure they could have digitally erased her scenes.

Kylo as the head of the first order could be really interesting but yeah, there arent any other story threads of any real driving interest.
 
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