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[BattleMonkey]

So I guess Galaxies was the best selling mmo ever because of how big Star Wars is? It did well for it's time and all but you are overstating the draw of a Star Wars game. Bioware, Bethesda et al have more pull as a name in gaming than Star Wars does.

The fact that this game combines Star Wars, Bioware and their previous collaboration in Kotor will be combined factors that help the push of this game but the Star Wars name alone won't push it to mega numbers

The game is not going to do mega numbers compared to most games, as no MMO does all that well really compared to the big triple AAA releases. Most tend to fluctuate around getting to just selling 1 million copies sold, unlike the other blockbusters that pull in 3-4 mil in one month. Long term sub sales is obviously the goal but people really can't expect "mega numbers" out of this game out the gate as it's not normal with MMOs.

Still if a game like Conan and Warhammer can do over 1 mil in sales, Star Wars should easily surpass that, but still your not going to get huge blockbuster numbers out of a MMO right now in this day and age and saturated market.

 

[gatti-man]

The game is not going to do mega numbers compared to most games, as no MMO does all that well really compared to the big triple AAA releases. Most tend to fluctuate around getting to just selling 1 million copies sold, unlike the other blockbusters that pull in 3-4 mil in one month. Long term sub sales is obviously the goal but people really can't expect "mega numbers" out of this game out the gate as it's not normal with MMOs.

Still if a game like Conan and Warhammer can do over 1 mil in sales, Star Wars should easily surpass that, but still your not going to get huge blockbuster numbers out of a MMO right now in this day and age and saturated market.

1 million in the first couple months would be mega numbers to me for an mmo.

 

[BattleMonkey]

1 million in the first couple months would be mega numbers to me for an mmo.

Long term retention is all that really matters. Of course big sales up front is good to help make some extra bank and pay off some of that big dev budget, but so many have had good sales up front and within 3 months had lost large percentage of the subscribers.

 

[Dinosaur Tamer]

Warhammer Online sold 1 million in the first (first three?) month, right? I have a feeling SWTOR will outdo that easily, but that's just speculation right now.

Not going to bet on how good it will be at sustaining those subscribers after a few weeks or month until I am able to play the beta for a few weeks, though.

 

[BattleMonkey]

Warhammer Online sold 1 million in the first (first three?) month, right? I have a feeling SWTOR will outdo that easily, but that's just speculation right now.

Not going to bet on how good it will be at sustaining those subscribers after a few weeks or month until I am able to play the beta for a few weeks, though.

EA stated it did 1.2 mil in 12 days. Warhammer launched strong and the sub base then dived big time when Lich King came out.

 

[Darklord]

Warhammer Online sold 1 million in the first (first three?) month, right? I have a feeling SWTOR will outdo that easily, but that's just speculation right now.

Not going to bet on how good it will be at sustaining those subscribers after a few weeks or month until I am able to play the beta for a few weeks, though.

Plenty of MMO's sell very well at the start but lose subscribers rapidly. It's all about keeping those subs.

 

[pieatorium]

1 million in the first couple months would be mega numbers to me for an mmo.

You are the guy I quoted, saying that Star Wars is a bigger IP than COD, I was just saying that as far as gaming goes it isn't even close

 

[NemesisPrime]

Warhammer Online sold 1 million in the first (first three?) month, right? I have a feeling SWTOR will outdo that easily, but that's just speculation right now.

Not going to bet on how good it will be at sustaining those subscribers after a few weeks or month until I am able to play the beta for a few weeks, though.

Didn't somebody mention that the (SW) servers are planned to take 2.5M players?

 

[bill0527]

Thats a weird way to look at it. It still 15 bucks that you are totally wasting.

Shit son, you have no idea how much money I've saved over the years by paying that $15 a month.

When I'm not knee-deep into an MMO, I'm spending $100+ a month on games. Games that almost always have a shelf life. Once I'm finished with them, I never touch them again.

When I'm playing a MMO, that pretty much takes up all of my gaming time, so I have no need to spend that $100+ a month on various other games. And MMOs are persistent, they keep going forever (theoretically), they are constantly updated and maintained (the ones that are successful).

I don't look at it as $15 that I'm wasting. I'm looking at it from the perspective that I'm paying $15 for a month's worth of entertainment, when otherwise I'd be spending a hell of a lot more. Therefore I can easily justify the cost of monthly sub to a MMO.

 

[BattleMonkey]

Didn't somebody mention that the (SW) servers are planned to take 2.5M players?

Be good if they did. So often MMO launches and oh no, we don't got enough server capacity for all these customers! They then have to open a ton of extra servers which will end up being closed down in a few months anyways

 

[gatti-man]

You are the guy I quoted, saying that Star Wars is a bigger IP than COD, I was just saying that as far as gaming goes it isn't even close

My argument was cod wont effect tor sales. Yes star wars is a bigger ip than cod among casuals and general public but I don't expect casuals to be day 1 buyers. 1 million isn't what I expect it to sell that's just what I feel is mega sales. If you want the number I think it will move in 2011 Id guess 2.5 million.

 

[Dinosaur Tamer]

Plenty of MMO's sell very well at the start but lose subscribers rapidly. It's all about keeping those subs.

My point exactly. SWTOR will have absolutely no problem selling 1.5-3 million copies during the first few month regardless of what mainstream game like COD launches in its timeframe.

That's just not what they have to worry about. Keeping subscribers is.

 

[gatti-man]

Be good if they did. So often MMO launches and oh no, we don't got enough server capacity for all these customers! They then have to open a ton of extra servers which will end up being closed down in a few months anyways

Is that 2.5 million concurrently logged on or total? Hopefully if that's all they have set up they limit units to that amount like blizzard did at launch. Hour long launch ques will just make me log off.

 

[Fonds]

Shit son, you have no idea how much money I've saved over the years by paying that $15 a month.

When I'm not knee-deep into an MMO, I'm spending $100+ a month on games. Games that almost always have a shelf life. Once I'm finished with them, I never touch them again.

When I'm playing a MMO, that pretty much takes up all of my gaming time, so I have no need to spend that $100+ a month on various other games. And MMOs are persistent, they keep going forever (theoretically), they are constantly updated and maintained (the ones that are successful).

I don't look at it as $15 that I'm wasting. I'm looking at it from the perspective that I'm paying $15 for a month's worth of entertainment, when otherwise I'd be spending a hell of a lot more. Therefore I can easily justify the cost of monthly sub to a MMO.

I completely agree. This is easily the best argument ever to play a good MMO.

 

[ZombieFred]

I can see the old republic making back its development budget in less than half a year if retail shipments are a huge success, if they can keep their subs at a high level. I really do hope this does well because this is the only MMO I'm willing to actually invest into because of the KOTOR universe and the developers behind it.

 

[bill0527]

I can see the old republic making back its development budget in less than half a year if retail shipments are a huge success, if they can keep their subs at a high level. I really do hope this does well because this is the only MMO I'm willing to actually invest into because of the KOTOR universe and the developers behind it.

Even though I've come to detest World of Warcraft, it was an actual good game to invest into at one time.

Its still a really good game, with some big flaws, but the community is completely jaded and toxic at this point in the game's life cycle. I don't think I could recommend it to someone starting brand new unless you have real-life or online friends that you can play with. Don't expect much, if any help from the community at this point. The inherent problem with WoW is that they broke down most of the barriers that used to require people to co-operate with other players in order to achieve goals in the game. Other than raiding, you can do every thing else in the game by yourself. You can run random dungeons with people you'll never see again and that allows the emotional cripples that play these games the perfect opportunity to visit their angst on other people. You don't need to play nice or make friends in order to be successful and get almost the full game experience in WoW.

 

[erragal]

Even with all that it has going for it, some people just refuse to play MMOs out of principle -regardless of how "single-player Bioware RPG"-like TOR might turn out to be. I doubt that any release short of a competing MMO (WoW-expansion) or MMO-like product (Diablo 3 (beta?)) could seriously affect TORs launch performance anywhere near something like poor reviews or bad word of mouth would (FFXIV anybody?).

This is why they really need to release before november if at all possible. The only game that can really dent SW:TOR's initial sales numbers is D3 and Blizzard is certainly on track to get it out by late november. There's a significant overlap between the hardcore mmo-playing crowd and those that are anticipating D3. If they want to maximize their box sales they should release mid september, even if the game is only 90% completed; the same people that would stick around after the first free month and Post-D3 aren't going to care if your classes are slightly out of balance for the first two months anyway.

 

[BattleMonkey]

This is why they really need to release before november if at all possible. The only game that can really dent SW:TOR's initial sales numbers is D3 and Blizzard is certainly on track to get it out by late november. There's a significant overlap between the hardcore mmo-playing crowd and those that are anticipating D3. If they want to maximize their box sales they should release mid september, even if the game is only 90% completed; the same people that would stick around after the first free month and Post-D3 aren't going to care if your classes are slightly out of balance for the first two months anyway.

Bad launch is not good for a MMO. They need to get the game launched in a pretty stable format more than anything. MMO players are incredibly picky and prone to quitting over any little thing. If the launch is a disaster it's going to be hard to pick itself back up, as few MMO has ever been able to come back after a bad launch. Many will jump into a game but if the game has problems or feels unfinished, they will jump back to one of the countless other MMO's out there that they used to play.

D3 is going to draw away customers no matter when it comes out, releasing TOR early is not going to help, those who want to play D3 are still going to buy it and play it. At worst, TOR will see a drop of playerbase when D3 comes out, or it's not going to see a big effect at all since you are comparing subscription based game to a giant game that has free play.

 

[Blackface]

Be good if they did. So often MMO launches and oh no, we don't got enough server capacity for all these customers! They then have to open a ton of extra servers which will end up being closed down in a few months anyways

There are dozens of servers in WoW that are not only almost completely empty, buty some that are flat out broken. A year ago Thrall was still broken since launch. It would crash every-day, people couldn't be in the same area as each-other and average ping time was in the hundreds. Blizzard never fixed it or offered to transfer these people off.

I agree with what you said 100 percent. And it does hurt new/smaller games more then big games. However remember that unlike other games, Blizzard isn't merging all the empty servers. There are probably more empty servers in WoW then in Rift. People just don't talk about them because WoW has a large community.

 

[erragal]

Bad launch is not good for a MMO. They need to get the game launched in a pretty stable format more than anything. MMO players are incredibly picky and prone to quitting over any little thing. If the launch is a disaster it's going to be hard to pick itself back up, as few MMO has ever been able to come back after a bad launch. Many will jump into a game but if the game has problems or feels unfinished, they will jump back to one of the countless other MMO's out there that they used to play.

D3 is going to draw away customers no matter when it comes out, releasing TOR early is not going to help, those who want to play D3 are still going to buy it and play it. At worst, TOR will see a drop of playerbase when D3 comes out, or it's not going to see a big effect at all since you are comparing subscription based game to a giant game that has free play.

I'm not saying they should have a BAD launch. I just think the key to a good launch is being server stable and content complete (Rift is a perfect example of a game that had a great launch for a new MMO). Most MMO's in beta are content complete for release; the beta is generally for server testing, community features, and the actual skills/numbers balancing.

I think you underestimate the value of getting a huge initial sales number. Not only do you have the PR of large sales (Which is more valuable for an MMO in order to attract people that don't want to play games that are perceived as dying/unpopular) but at least some of those people are going to get hooked on your game, regardless of what else you're playing. If you release your game AFTER a similarly online/community based game is released that is subscription free you're going to lose lots of curiosity/impulse buys.

 

[BattleMonkey]

I'm not saying they should have a BAD launch. I just think the key to a good launch is being server stable and content complete (Rift is a perfect example of a game that had a great launch for a new MMO). Most MMO's in beta are content complete for release; the beta is generally for server testing, community features, and the actual skills/numbers balancing.

I think you underestimate the value of getting a huge initial sales number. Not only do you have the PR of large sales (Which is more valuable for an MMO in order to attract people that don't want to play games that are perceived as dying/unpopular) but at least some of those people are going to get hooked on your game, regardless of what else you're playing. If you release your game AFTER a similarly online/community based game is released that is subscription free you're going to lose lots of curiosity/impulse buys.

Huge launches for MMO's have proven to not be a major factor at all. If anything having a competent launch is far more important. RIFT was delayed heavily and even with one of the tightest launches in MMO history, it still didn't sell that amazing, it still hasn't even done a million but unlike other MMO's, it has kept strong subber base that has been growing.

Game like D3 no matter when it launches is going to be a killer and is going to easily sell 4x and likely more than TOR. Obviously a big launch is wanted for a big game like TOR for getting those big sales early on, but if they push out the game in a not ready state, it will be far more damaging to it's reputation than the release of competition. MMO players a fickle, and they never forgive past transgressions it seems.

But it's not just D3, they have to deal with COD, BF3, and all other big holiday games that are all going to cut into gamer's time, and all are likely going to sell more than TOR. Even if it launches before them, they are going to be drawing away players attention.

 

[Jarmel]

You really think COD players will be TOR buyers? Just look at this website. COD from a pc gamers point of view is complete garbage. It just took PC ideas and consolized them. BF3 maybe but even that is a completely different genre.

Also this isnt KOTOR. And TOR is bigger than skyrim and uncharted combined so I dont even know where you are coming from with this argument. Uncharted is a ps3 exclusive that is once again a completely unrelated genre. Skyrim will most likely be better on PC down the road so why buy it now? If its anything like oblivion the best thing to do would be to buy it for $10 a year from now when all the bugs are sorted and the mod community has added to the game.

I just think you are coming at the argument from the wrong point of view thats all. Star Wars as an IP is bigger than COD, bigger than anything really for casual and wide ranging appeal. This wont be advertised as from the makers of kotor. Its going to be star wars mmo on the back of one of the biggest bluray releases of the year and the 3D rerelease of the movies.

Sure why not? COD still sells gangbusters on the PC, then Skyrim, and BF3. Lol if you think TOR is bigger than Skyrim and Uncharted sales wise. Oblivion alone sold 3 million by 2007. Star Wars gaming-wise is not that big of an IP, it's still big but the game won't sell on that name alone. They want to attract casuals and alot of them are going to be busy playing other games even among the PC market.

The hardcores will be there regardless but the casual market(the one WoW magically tapped into) is going to be insanely busy come November.

 

[Dakota47]

Huge launches for MMO's have proven to not be a major factor at all. If anything having a competent launch is far more important. RIFT was delayed heavily and even with one of the tightest launches in MMO history, it still didn't sell that amazing, it still hasn't even done a million but unlike other MMO's, it has kept strong subber base that has been growing.

RIFT was amazing on release. It was the smoothest MMO launch I have ever witnessed. Hopefully Bioware can match that.

 

[Door2Dawn]

mmm delicious cake..

 

[Dakota47]

mmm delicious cake..

The first serving has gone sour, but the second is delicious (although quite spoilerific).

 

[Derwind]

mmm delicious cake..

Too much cake I say, I mean they're leaking way too much of the game, the Q&A's were good enough IMO.... little snippits don't hurt anyone but leaked beta vid's, massive amounts of screenshots, full companion lists... =_=

This is a little excessive don't ya think? ={

 

[BattleMonkey]

Need to cut down on the cake. You all going to feel bad later

 

[Jarmel]

Too much cake I say, I mean they're leaking way too much of the game, the Q&A's were good enough IMO.... little snippits don't hurt anyone but leaked beta vid's, massive amounts of screenshots, full companion lists... =_=

This is a little excessive don't ya think? ={

It was only a matter of time.

 

[Xamdou]

Sure why not? COD still sells gangbusters on the PC, then Skyrim, and BF3. Lol if you think TOR is bigger than Skyrim and Uncharted sales wise. Oblivion alone sold 3 million by 2007. Star Wars gaming-wise is not that big of an IP, it's still big but the game won't sell on that name alone. They want to attract casuals and alot of them are going to be busy playing other games even among the PC market.

The hardcores will be there regardless but the casual market(the one WoW magically tapped into) is going to be insanely busy come November.

SWTOR will be bigger than Uncharted 3 sales wise and as a franchise when it is released.

 

[Sigfodr]

Too much cake I say, I mean they're leaking way too much of the game, the Q&A's were good enough IMO.... little snippits don't hurt anyone but leaked beta vid's, massive amounts of screenshots, full companion lists... =_=

This is a little excessive don't ya think? ={

Yeah, I've started dieting. However, cutting back on baked goods is not my only strategy to watch my figure. I'm avoiding some official snacks, too.

 

[Jarmel]

SWTOR will be bigger than Uncharted 3 sales wise and as a franchise when it is released.

It's not just one franchise. It's all of them at once. TOR has to compete with pretty much every major franchise on all systems coming out within a month. Most of which have a large internet multiplayer component or RPGs that suck up large amounts of time.

 

[BattleMonkey]

SWTOR will be bigger than Uncharted 3 sales wise and as a franchise when it is released.

Uncharted 2 was able to move 3.5 mil (at last reported numbers, it still was selling after and had cheap rereleases later as well). Majority of MMO's never sell close to that. The KOTOR games were not that huge of sellers despite being popular with gamers either. I'm sure it will do over 1 mil very quick and possibly do u to 2 mil, but not sure how much more than that it could do....

I hope it would sell a ton more of course, but I have doubts.

 

[bill0527]

Star Wars gaming-wise is not that big of an IP, it's still big but the game won't sell on that name alone.

Do you want to stand by that statement before we have to whip out the sales charts and links ?

I'll give you a little teaser - The Force Unleashed sold almost 8 million copies. And it was a shitty Star Wars game.

 

[Jarmel]

Do you want to stand by that statement before we have to whip out the sales charts and links ?

I'll give you a little teaser - The Force Unleashed sold almost 8 million copies. And it was a shitty Star Wars game.

It really isn't. There's been a few examples where it's sold extremely well and dozens where it flopped.

 

[Xamdou]

It's not just one franchise. It's all of them at once. TOR has to compete with pretty much every major franchise on all systems coming out within a month. Most of which have a large internet multiplayer component or RPGs that suck up large amounts of time.

So your saying SWTOR will be out during the month of November. What if it is released during September or October will it still be competing with those games?

 

[BattleMonkey]

Do you want to stand by that statement before we have to whip out the sales charts and links ?

I'll give you a little teaser - The Force Unleashed sold almost 8 million copies. And it was a shitty Star Wars game.

It was an incredibly hyped SW game that also was targetted at older audience, which hasn't had a SW game in years. SW games sadly became target of mobile devices and more kid oriented titles in recent years. Force Unleashed 2 seems to have flopped hard in comparison, and many other SW titles did poorly before it.

SW is a huge IP, but you got to still build up demand and show promise of a potentially good game to get people to buy.

 

[Jarmel]

So your saying SWTOR will be out during the month of November. What if it is released during September or October will it still be competing with those games?

Depends when. Early October and it should be fine, September would be better. They could get away with December as hype for the other games would be dying down but they might lose some holiday sales.

 

[Derwind]

They should just focus on a targetting the Holiday season because at least in my situation I'd much prefer it then. I don't think I'm alone in that sentiment.

I'd be hard pressed to buy the game early on in Fall(though I'm still probably get it on release either way)....

 

[LowParry]

I don't really see an issue with a November release. Though for those who are multi console/PC gamers, I can see a problem. Too much money which kinda limits my spending of what I want. The question is, what are people more hyped for?

 

[bill0527]

It was an incredibly hyped SW game that also was targetted at older audience, which hasn't had a SW game in years. SW games sadly became target of mobile devices and more kid oriented titles in recent years. Force Unleashed 2 seems to have flopped hard in comparison, and many other SW titles did poorly before it.

SW is a huge IP, but you got to still build up demand and show promise of a potentially good game to get people to buy.

Force Unleashed II was probably the worst performing Star Wars maybe ever. I don't have a list of all-time sales by every title since the beginning, but even the crappy Star Wars games have always sold well. The Lego Star Wars franchise has sold at least 10 million according to the wikipedia from 2009, and I'm sure its sold a lot more since then. The other big Star Wars releases have to go back to last generation. Battlefront 2 sold something like 6.5 million, edging out the first Battlefront around 5 million. There have been a few duds sales wise - if you can call them that, like Republic Commando, The Clone Wars, etc, but they always sell at least a million and sometimes in the 2-3 million range.

At best, you can say the franchise is hit or miss - but even the misses in the bunch find a way to sell a lot despite their poor quality.

I just don't see how anyone can say that Star Wars games aren't huge business. They always have been, even if the game is terrible. What may fool some of you into thinking that it isn't a big IP is the fact that quality Star Wars titles are few and far between, and the fact that there isn't a yearly installment like CoD or a Madden, with a publisher like Activision or EA in your face every year reminding you how awesome the franchise is.

 

[Derwind]

I don't have a list of all-time sales by every title since the beginning, but even the crappy Star Wars games have always sold well. The Lego Star Wars franchise has sold at least 10 million according to the wikipedia from 2009, and I'm sure its sold a lot more since then.

HEY!

Lego Star Wars is not CRAPPY! >=[

I happen to like it very much, it's good wholesome fun! It also provides the added stimulation of unlocking items & achievements. Plus it's provides funny cut scene's! =D

Lego Star Wars is the best Lego Movie Game out there!!!!! Even better than Lego Batman!!!

 

[Fonds]

This is why they really need to release before november if at all possible. The only game that can really dent SW:TOR's initial sales numbers is D3 and Blizzard is certainly on track to get it out by late november.

Unless you're either a Blizzard employee or a psychic there's no way you can say that for certain.

 

[piratepwnsninja]

Unless you're either a Blizzard employee or a psychic there's no way you can say that for certain.

Late November, probably not. But the second week in December just like Cataclysm? Yeah.

Anyway, I like the idea that SDCC will talk about the special edition, then at PAX get a date that is around a month later (end of sept/beginning of oct)

Just because we don't have a release date yet doesn't mean that distributors and buyers for companies like GS do not. I say this from experience. Doesn't mean they do either, but you can't just throw that out there as a reason as to why a month isn't enough time. Same goes for advertising deals.

A MMO has the advantage of being able to have discs pressed and boxes, etc. made well before it ships, because they can take their "this is the closest we have a month out of retail" build and surprise, day one mega-patch.

 

[Giolon]

The only game that can really dent SW:TOR's initial sales numbers is D3 and Blizzard is certainly on track to get it out by late november.

Can I have what you're smoking? Blizzard already said they couldn't commit to a 2011 release for D3 - plus they stated that their public beta is planned for Q3 2011 (which is what I think EA/Bioware is worried about).

 

[LowParry]

A MMO has the advantage of being able to have discs pressed and boxes, etc. made well before it ships, because they can take their "this is the closest we have a month out of retail" build and surprise, day one mega-patch.

I'd expect the first couple of months to be full of patches and server down times. Happens all the time with new MMOs.

 

[BattleMonkey]

I just don't see how anyone can say that Star Wars games aren't huge business.

Because many just aren't. As been said before, the franchise has been always very hit and miss when it comes to sales. TFU almost felt like a huge fluke, and many have contested the 8 mil number since the game dropped off pretty much every chart out there right away. Lot of channel stuffing obviously happened with TFU along with it being released on every platform imaginable including mobile phone game sales that were counted in that.

Licensed games will always sell better no matter what just because of having a big name IP attached, but performance on them has always been up in the air. And I think lot of people have gotten sick of the many years now that we have had nothing but shitty SW games. It's sad that Lego Star Wars is pretty much the best we have had in such a long time.

 

[erragal]

Huge launches for MMO's have proven to not be a major factor at all. If anything having a competent launch is far more important. RIFT was delayed heavily and even with one of the tightest launches in MMO history, it still didn't sell that amazing, it still hasn't even done a million but unlike other MMO's, it has kept strong subber base that has been growing.

Game like D3 no matter when it launches is going to be a killer and is going to easily sell 4x and likely more than TOR. Obviously a big launch is wanted for a big game like TOR for getting those big sales early on, but if they push out the game in a not ready state, it will be far more damaging to it's reputation than the release of competition. MMO players a fickle, and they never forgive past transgressions it seems.

But it's not just D3, they have to deal with COD, BF3, and all other big holiday games that are all going to cut into gamer's time, and all are likely going to sell more than TOR. Even if it launches before them, they are going to be drawing away players attention.

Considering they launched with a brand new IP from an unknown developer Rift's initial sales exceeded everyone's expectations. Most people were expecting the game to completely crash and burn; the key to their ongoing success is something bioware needs to keep in mind: Content, content, content.

I agree that MMO players are fickle but what do you consider 'ready'? There's a huge difference between how MMO's used to launch and what they can get away with now. Most developers know you can't launch like WoW, CoH, Tabula Rasa, Age of Conan, Warhammer etc with nothing to do at endgame; and you DEFINITELY can't pull a FFXI/EQ take six months+ to reach cap in this day and age (at least not in the US). Interesting end game content in the game at launch and consistently updated is the major factor to ongoing success.

I'd actually be really concerned if they had to move launch from september to november based on the progress of their endgame content; you don't design your MMO in level order. The last area you work on should be mid-level filler content; it's the part of your game the fewest people will see and spend the least amount of time in.

 

[Won]

Of course Lego Star Wars sold a lot. Everyone loves Lego!

 

[erragal]

Can I have what you're smoking? Blizzard already said they couldn't commit to a 2011 release for D3 - plus they stated that their public beta is planned for Q3 2011 (which is what I think EA/Bioware is worried about).

Since multiple people decided to call me on this...

First: I said 'on track'. This isn't a statement of certainty, it's an observation. Second: Beta details are being announced on August 1st. All systems design is complete (This based on developer statements that all major systems will be revealed prior to beta). The press release/media blitz on the 31st/1st will probably reveal everything related to community features, D3 battle.net, and the open beta. Asset creation is certainly done; closed beta has been going on for a couple months already.

FYI: Most of this information is readily available if you keep up with news about the game.

Blizzard doesn't need to commit to a date at all; hell they don't even need to advertise D3 and it could probably sell 3million+ copies. The release date is going to be revealed at Blizzcon; Note it.

Sorry if I derailed the TOR thread...

 

[Blackface]

It's fairly obvious the only thing holding up D3 is SWTOR. They are clearly going to launch it to compete with SWTOR. Do you honestly think a game like D3 takes as long as a Triple A MMO like SWTOR to develop? Well D3 has been in development just as long. I say development loosely. There have been tons of rumors that D3's development has purposely slowed down, and the game has been virtually complete for almost a year. That they are delaying the game for the launch of SWTOR, and so possible console ports can close the gap between the PC release date.

The market for SWTOR and D3, is not the same market as BF3 and COD. Regardless of all the amazing titles coming out this holiday. Anyone who is going to skip picking up an MMO at launch for COD or ME, were not the audience that flocks to MMO's and makes them sell millions of copies in the first week anyway.

That said, I don't see SWTOR coming out before November. At least at the current rate. it's fairly clear from the cake site(so no surprises) that 0 end-game has been tested. To put it in perspective, Blizzard has their internal QA team test all raids prior to them going up on the PTR for a couple months. Then they are on PTR for almost two months.

SWTOR doesn't just need to test operations, they need to test EVERYTHING end-game. From the CM post earlier in this thread, the beta goes down on the 20th and in the "coming weeks" will go up with a new build.

So lets say It comes up August 7th. Which I think it s generous date. Two months of testing means you are already into October. It would take most people in beta that long to get enough level 50's just to test end-game content. Then you have to actually test all the end-game features Bioware has put into the new beta built.

So lets give Bioware the benefit of the doubt, and say they are going to give everyone 1 level 50 toon. Still allow them to level others, but give them a max level toon to test the high-end content. So that gives the beta community two months or two and a half months to hammer out every little bug end-game SWTOR has to offer. This is a task, remember, that takes the most dedicated hard-core players in WoW, two months to do for a single raid. Let alone multiple systems, operations and features.

It then takes another month for the game to go gold and the advertising campaign to kick off.

There is no possible way this game comes out bug free before November.