Shin_Okita
Member
Anybody around for a few games!?
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Super Smash Bros. for 3DS & Wii U DLC |OT2| Lucas comes out of Nowhere!
- Thread starter IntelliHeath
- Start date
I'll play.
Shin_Okita
Member
Cool! Just let me know your nnid! Room ewill be up in a minute
Shin_Okita
Member
All right! Sorry was looking for your gaf nick
Shin_Okita
Member
Wuut!!
Yeah it's fucking stupid.
I think I'm taking a break from Samus and maybe from the whole game. Was fighting a pretty good luigi, but it's just insane how effortless this whole game is. Fire ball, grab combos, grab to kill and moronic smashes.
Whereas samus is a piece of shit character that has moves that will get you punished for hitting your opponent, moves that have stupid hitboxes that will whiff on pretty much anything but bowser. Moves that won't suction your opponents correctly getting you punished. Crap knockback leaving her with no reliable kill moves. One of the worst grabs in the game. And not even a good long range game to make up for her atrocious cqc, I mean missiles are the worst projectile in the game, what does that say.
It's a shit character and I can't believe Sakurai can let character be as shit as her or Mewtwo in this game while having the nerve of having stupid characters like Shiek, luigi and Rosa. And that kinda makes me not wanna play the game anymore.
Shin_Okita
Member
That kirby up smash was sooo cool!! Going to my ladt one!!
Shin_Okita
Member
Good fun!! Thanks for the games!!
The worst thing is that she remained completely unchanged in the last update so the devs don't think there's anything wrong with her.
Karsticles
Member
I don't think this is true. Charizard and Marth were mostly unchanged for a while, and then got a huge revamp. I think Sakurai just has to divide his attention, as do the balance testers. It might take months, but you'll see changes to Samus and other characters that need help. We all have our nitpick characters we care about, but none of us have a full view of the roster. For example, I have no idea what changes Kirby might need, or what quirks plague Rosalina.
TheDinoman
Member
I fear that Palutena might not receive major buffs. Sakurai probably thinks she's good enough with customs on, and while they do help her tremendously, she can't use them all the time (in For Glory and in actual tournaments).
Imagine if someone who was already a better base chaarcter like Mario or Falcon had access to specials like Superspeed and Lightweight. It'd be ridiculous. Sakurai probably doesn't know how to make Palutena in the default game viable without making her broken with customs on.
Imagine if someone who was already a better base chaarcter like Mario or Falcon had access to specials like Superspeed and Lightweight. It'd be ridiculous. Sakurai probably doesn't know how to make Palutena in the default game viable without making her broken with customs on.
Your combos are pretty devastating against Bowser as you said, those uairs hurt. But yeah, it is pretty crazy how much less some characters have to work. Some can essentially autopilot their bread and butter strategies against most of the cast.
Though I don't include Sheik in all that, honestly. Sheik has to work and think pretty fast, dying pretty quickly if they make a few bad decisions. I've never been beaten by a Sheik that I didn't think was also outplaying me. I can't say the same for Luigi/Mario/Rosalina/Diddy/Falcon and a few others.
Snacks the sober sea lion
Member
Palutena's problem is that her specials are just a random mash of moves that don't serve any overall purpose. Autoreticule, what really is the point of this move? Aegis Reflector, okay that's neat, but how does it work into anything else? Counter, tee hee.
Samus I have no idea. Maybe they're afraid she'll be too strong in free for all as everyone has always theorized, but we have no real idea what's going on. Her new neutral air is completely stupid though.
Samus I have no idea. Maybe they're afraid she'll be too strong in free for all as everyone has always theorized, but we have no real idea what's going on. Her new neutral air is completely stupid though.
TheDinoman
Member
I think the reasoning behind Palu's specials are, well, they're the most generic moves out of her catalog. A teleport, a counter, a projectile and a reflector. Basically Smash Bros. The Character right there.
What I mean is, her character gimmick, similar to the Mii Fighters, is customization. And in a lot of games based around customization, your character, weapon, whatever the hell typically starts off as a blank slate that you have to personalize and customize on your own. For example, in Team Fortress 2, before you're cutting people's heads off with the Eyelander, using energy drinks to bypass enemy attacks, or eating sandwiches, you start off with the stock weapons, which are all typical shotguns, pistols, etc. The more crazy zany unlocks like the Huntsman, Cow Mangler, Sandman, etc all have to be unlocked and equipped before using them.
Default Palutena is basically a blank slate as she could possibly be. She doesn't have any unique or fun gimmicks (besides priority on her dash attack and back air I guess) and is ultimately empty and lackluser. Obviously the concept is that you're supposed to customize and make her more interesting a character, but this idea falls apart when you enter a customless environment like For Glory and now you're just left with an empty character.
What I mean is, her character gimmick, similar to the Mii Fighters, is customization. And in a lot of games based around customization, your character, weapon, whatever the hell typically starts off as a blank slate that you have to personalize and customize on your own. For example, in Team Fortress 2, before you're cutting people's heads off with the Eyelander, using energy drinks to bypass enemy attacks, or eating sandwiches, you start off with the stock weapons, which are all typical shotguns, pistols, etc. The more crazy zany unlocks like the Huntsman, Cow Mangler, Sandman, etc all have to be unlocked and equipped before using them.
Default Palutena is basically a blank slate as she could possibly be. She doesn't have any unique or fun gimmicks (besides priority on her dash attack and back air I guess) and is ultimately empty and lackluser. Obviously the concept is that you're supposed to customize and make her more interesting a character, but this idea falls apart when you enter a customless environment like For Glory and now you're just left with an empty character.
I hope so, I want to be able to use my Melee mains in competitive play.
Too strong in FFAs? Tell that to Flate Blitz-spamming Charizards. I love when I meet people who spam that or other overly punishable moves (rock, yoshi/bowser bomb, fast-falling dairs), and they're so reliant on them that they can't help but keep trying to land them even after I've punished them countless times.
I really miss Samus' land-cancelled missiles back from Melee, and I agree that her new nair sucks. It makes me grateful that Pac-Man has his, since it makes escaping from some set-ups a breeze while dealing decent damage and knockback.
@Boney: Well, yeah. The higher tier characters tend to have many ready-made combos and set-ups (which often double as KO options) that make them even more straightforward to play than lower-tier characters. I can't count how many times I got around 40% damage from a grab as Luigi, while my Pac-Man game relies a lot more on using the right moves at the right time rather than doing brain-dead combos that are at most read-dependent against good players.
I won't be playing today, but maybe tomorrow would be a good day for practicing some more in preparation for next Sunday's local tourney.
AnkiRendan
Member
Anyone want to play?
Snacks the sober sea lion
Member
Well, I can play.
AnkiRendan
Member
Oh, good thing I decided to check back...are you still there? I'll put up a room.
Captain Rage Quit 69
Banned
There are certainly brain-dead high tier characters like the Mario Bros. (Luigi especially) and probably Diddy, but from personal experience most of the high tier characters require a lot of thought in their actions.
Sheik is the most well-known example, while she gets a whole lot of reward from her attacks for relatively little risk, her KOs mainly come from either carrying the opponent off the stage with fairs and hopefully a Bouncing Fish, or an uair/Vanish mixup in the air. Otherwise until she can get one of her kill scenarios she's limited to just tacking on pointless damage, all the while she can get killed pretty easily due to her average weight and the opponent gaining rage while they still live. Sheik has to work really hard to succeed but also has amazing tools that keep her from worrying for most of the match until high percent situations.
Rosalina has to micromanage Luma to rack up damage and kills; without the Luma she's a floaty with poor kill potential outside of her aerials. Using the Luma poorly leads to Rosalina having to fend for herself for most of the match, which is difficult for people getting into the character as they have to adjust to Luma no longer covering them in any situation.
As far as I can see, if ZSS misses a grab she eats damage for lunch and dinner. She has a high learning curve because people like to try setting up for up-B kills and the like but don't have very good spacing, and she also has less weight than Sheik so she can get sent flying very far.
Ness needs a brain to operate because a brain is needed for Psychokinesis duh.
Maybe someone else can explain this, I don't know.
Sonic is fast, and his crazy spin dash combos aren't intuitive enough to be picked up just like that. Learning the proper height to dair without suffering landing lag, and not killing yourself from sheer fast are important. He is very fast. I SD playing as him from how fast he is, Sonic is fast.
lol Luigi, his options for covering the ledge are spam fireballs for everything but ledge jumps, where you jump and fair ayy
This is why everyone should just play Yoshi.
Sheik is the most well-known example, while she gets a whole lot of reward from her attacks for relatively little risk, her KOs mainly come from either carrying the opponent off the stage with fairs and hopefully a Bouncing Fish, or an uair/Vanish mixup in the air. Otherwise until she can get one of her kill scenarios she's limited to just tacking on pointless damage, all the while she can get killed pretty easily due to her average weight and the opponent gaining rage while they still live. Sheik has to work really hard to succeed but also has amazing tools that keep her from worrying for most of the match until high percent situations.
Rosalina has to micromanage Luma to rack up damage and kills; without the Luma she's a floaty with poor kill potential outside of her aerials. Using the Luma poorly leads to Rosalina having to fend for herself for most of the match, which is difficult for people getting into the character as they have to adjust to Luma no longer covering them in any situation.
As far as I can see, if ZSS misses a grab she eats damage for lunch and dinner. She has a high learning curve because people like to try setting up for up-B kills and the like but don't have very good spacing, and she also has less weight than Sheik so she can get sent flying very far.
Ness needs a brain to operate because a brain is needed for Psychokinesis duh.
Maybe someone else can explain this, I don't know.Sonic is fast, and his crazy spin dash combos aren't intuitive enough to be picked up just like that. Learning the proper height to dair without suffering landing lag, and not killing yourself from sheer fast are important. He is very fast. I SD playing as him from how fast he is, Sonic is fast.
lol Luigi, his options for covering the ledge are spam fireballs for everything but ledge jumps, where you jump and fair ayy
This is why everyone should just play Yoshi.
AnkiRendan
Member
Sigh, this Fisher Price Internet...
I'll rehost.
I'll rehost.
Shamrock7r
Member
Would anyone like to 1v1?
If you screwup with Shiek and don't get the kill at 60 with bouncing fish and don't get it at 100 with Vanish, 120 with up air, you can get a nice ko with down smash at 150 or ftilt at 180.
Please stop saying Shiek is hard or whatever because it's gonna give me a brain aneurism.
Please stop saying Shiek is hard or whatever because it's gonna give me a brain aneurism.
True, but no other low tier character has recieved such huge nerf as Samus did in the Mewtwo update. Only characters that have been nerfed worse are Diddy, Shiek and Rosa
AnkiRendan
Member
Good games! Sorry for the random characters at the end, just wanted to switch things up since my mains were doing pretty poorly overall.
Snacks the sober sea lion
Member
Diddy Kong has a lot of potential for smart play and being fun to play/ watch, but his banana is so good and he still gets grab combos, so I certainly wouldn't call him hard to play.
I don't know why people say it, I don't see how Sheik has to work any harder than 90% of the cast. And "Sheik can't KO." Her forward air KO's at 150%, Floppy Fish is a great move, Vanish is absurd, good up air.
And you forgot Greninja. Even if they realized how stupid that was and have buffed him twice. That was still really dumb.
It's not like that's a problem, I certainly don't main Captain Falcon or Link. Good games.
I don't know why people say it, I don't see how Sheik has to work any harder than 90% of the cast. And "Sheik can't KO." Her forward air KO's at 150%, Floppy Fish is a great move, Vanish is absurd, good up air.
And you forgot Greninja. Even if they realized how stupid that was and have buffed him twice. That was still really dumb.
It's not like that's a problem, I certainly don't main Captain Falcon or Link. Good games.
Snacks the sober sea lion
Member
Just check the patch notes, I guess. Shuriken had only 3 frames of endlag, up smash had better hitboxes and less endlag, most moves had more knockback, some weird stuff with aerials being cancelable into Shadow Sneak even while landing. It was only 2-3 weeks before the nerf and nobody had any idea how to play the game at that point, so we have no idea the actual extent of how good Greninja was.
Bowser's bair is so damn good, between that and pivot grabs I've gotta say things are going well for me on the ol for glory. Basically, besides throw followups and stage runoffs I use bair instead of fair for most things now. Unless I'm fighting a small character and need fair's coverage. More than flames, more than flying slam, more than fortress... bair puts the fear into people. I've had multiple people manage to miss the ledge when recovering cause they were so afraid of getting bair'd. I can see how shaken people are after I hit them with the first or second bair, they become much less aggressive. I mean, it's pretty crazy to get hit by an aerial that does 19% and has more power than many character's fsmashes. So glad there isn't a sweetspot problem like with Charizard's bair.
Doesn't prevent the top tiers from doing what they do, but overall I'm very happy slumming it in for glory land. Incorporating better spacing and short hop bairs is saving me a lot of frustration in awkward matchups like salty dittos and Ganondorfs. I love hitting things with Bowser, especially stuff like killing a Lucas with a stalled Bowser bomb cause he miscalculated his usmash, side-dumpstering people with bair and turning the tables against spammy players with a single smash.
Doesn't prevent the top tiers from doing what they do, but overall I'm very happy slumming it in for glory land. Incorporating better spacing and short hop bairs is saving me a lot of frustration in awkward matchups like salty dittos and Ganondorfs. I love hitting things with Bowser, especially stuff like killing a Lucas with a stalled Bowser bomb cause he miscalculated his usmash, side-dumpstering people with bair and turning the tables against spammy players with a single smash.
So yesterday I lost at a Smash tournament and i feel like everything in my life has gone wrong. I didn't sleep at all last night, I was just thinking how badly I played in the final two matches. I don't want to be a sore loser but I feel like 500 hours of my life was all for nothing. I honestly put away anything gaming related just so I don't think about it anymore as it makes me super depressed and also a little angry. The guys at the tournament thought I was really really good though but to me it just doesn't feel like much. I'm sorry if I sound really childish but I just feel rather lost right now and thinking of any video game just seems to me me angry and depressed as I said before.
For background the final match was Vs. A Captain Falcon and I was using Bowser. I won the first match but only because he did two suicides from going too deep. Both other matches were him beating me with just two stocks left. I can't get the worst moments of the matches out of my head at all. It was also a big deal to me since it was for $100 cash.
For background the final match was Vs. A Captain Falcon and I was using Bowser. I won the first match but only because he did two suicides from going too deep. Both other matches were him beating me with just two stocks left. I can't get the worst moments of the matches out of my head at all. It was also a big deal to me since it was for $100 cash.
Was this your 1st tournament?
Yeah pretty much, I went to one when I was like 11 and some how won but it wasnt using any official rules.
Well it sounds like you played well, and I know that doesn't make you feel good right now but if those other players were complimenting you then it must be true. And from the way you described it, you won a few matches before that loss so you should be proud of yourself for that.
But a really really important thing to remember is that one tournament doesn't mean much at all, especially if it's (basically) your 1st. I can't think of a single player that won their very 1st tournament, and that includes people I personally know and top Smash players. Most of them get absolutely destroyed in their 1st tournament and probably some of the same anger as you. But what they did is take any anger or disappointment they had and used it to push themselves to improve, and you should do the same.
You say you can't stop replaying the mistakes in your head, well that's honestly a good thing. Keep those mistakes in mind when practicing and work to make sure you don't make the same mistakes next time. And there's plenty people here who'd be happy to help you out and practice, including a couple Bowser mains.
Thanks, this makes me feel a lot better. I hope the same place has another tournament so maybe I could redeem myself. Getting some pointers from other good players sounds great too
Karsticles
Member
Play Cronoc's Bowser.
Captain Rage Quit 69
Banned
Isn't Captain Falcon vs. Bowser really hard on the Koopa King anyway? Feels like Falcon is fast enough to do what he wants whenever.
I've signed up for yet another Smash meets the FGC tournament called Mashfest lol, Wish me luck!
I've signed up for yet another Smash meets the FGC tournament called Mashfest lol, Wish me luck!
I should play more traditional fighting games :O
Well thankfully they are actually having another in 2 weeks, I would like super appreciate it if I could get help on here in the meantime. I don't know what the best way to get help would be??????? Playing another good Bowser with me still playing Bowser and telling me where I go wrong; or practicing against a good Falcon with Bowser as it seems like a bad match up to me at least.
Also is Duck Hunt good against Falcon? I was to afraid to switch last night but if its a good match up using him as my other main in the tournament seems like a good idea.
Also is Duck Hunt good against Falcon? I was to afraid to switch last night but if its a good match up using him as my other main in the tournament seems like a good idea.
NamikazeBurst
Member
Duck Hunt is absolutely terrible against Falcon.
Best to just stick with Bowser then?
NamikazeBurst
Member
If those are your only good characters, yes. Bowser will get comboed a lot, but he can make up for it with early kills and high damage. Duck Hunt kills extremely late, and he wants to wall out the opponent with projectiles, and that is very hard to do against Falcon.
Alright thanks
Bowser vs Falcon is a tough matchup, but it's doable. It gets more difficult the safer the Falcon plays. There's two ways a safe Falcon will mess up Bowser, baiting moves and pushing Bowser to the ledge with aerial threats. Because Falcon has more mobility and that ridiculous dash grab, he can dash towards you and back off right before getting in range to bait a reaction from Bowser. Problem is, Falcon can punish almost any of Bowser's moves with a real dash grab. If he can get you to throw out a ftilt, dtilt, utilt, fortress... anything besides jabs, he can get in and punish.
So first off you'll have to figure out what he wants. Is he dancing out of range until you commit to something, whether in the air or on the ground? How does he approach, is it the same every time? Does he mix up dash attack and dash grab, or does he always run in and dash grab? If he never uses dash attack, then you know you can time a spot dodge into something fast (fortress, klaw) to stuff that approach. If you want to get ahead of it, you can throw out some jabs as long as your timing is good enough (consider it a 50/50 if you're just throwing jabs out). You can also use a short hop aerial fair/bair while playing the spacing game against a grounded falcon, as long as you're autocanceling aerials, Falcon has to have pretty good timing to get between a fair to jabs or bair to ftilt.
The reality against great Falcons is, Falcon's jump is his best spacing/threat tool. Falcon jumps high and moves fast enough in the air to use his air jump to get back safely, and his aerials come out really fast compared to Bowser. It's not a great idea to challenge him in the air, generally. Of course, bair will lead to an acceptable trade with just about anything... but it's probably better to see the pattern and catch him as he tries to land - utilt for coverage, run past and pivot grab or usmash when confident.
Most of all, this match really depends on Bowser confidently going offstage for the kill. Falcon's recovery is terrible and predictable. If he is preparing to recover from below you absolutely must run off the stage into a fair. One fair will gimp Falcon and end his stock at almost any percentage offstage. If he manages to grab you with his up b, prepare yourself to tech off the stage, but it doesn't happen that often. Fair has huge coverage and usually beats Falcon's up b. Falcon can live to annoying percentages because of his weight. I've klawed Falcons after 100% many times to my disappointment. He's much easier to kill horizontally than vertically.
That's enough babble about Captain Falcon. Of course, theory doesn't always translate nicely into gameplay. But Falcon is a predictable character outside of two fast moves - dash grab and raptor boost. Figure out the player's dash grab tendencies and the match becomes doable. Until he spikes you during recovery, anyway.
I don't think Duck Hunt would be a good matchup. Falcon is heavy, and DH doesn't have a consistent enough wall to stop Falcon from running through and wrecking it.
Also go here for DI'ing against him: http://smashboards.com/guides/how-to-di-all-throws-in-smash-4.341/
How far did you get in the tourney?
While Falcon experience should be important, you need to also need to be prepared against every character really. As good as one might be, there's also tons of great opponents who have constant practice against other top players by regularity attending tourneys, if this is your first, it's hard to be oh the same level because you're used to playing against weaker opponents.
While Falcon experience should be important, you need to also need to be prepared against every character really. As good as one might be, there's also tons of great opponents who have constant practice against other top players by regularity attending tourneys, if this is your first, it's hard to be oh the same level because you're used to playing against weaker opponents.
Karsticles
Member
Cronoc taking over for Bowser instruction - love it.
Pretty much everyone is hard on Bowser. No one feels easy.
I blame you for me still playing this game as much as I do, our matches revitalized my Bowser play.
As for matchups, as Bowser I'm just happy when the other guy doesn't take one of Bowser's really bad ones.