Professor Beef
Banned
I should probably be taking advantage of Anther's Ladder with the 3DS version, but I have so many things to play...
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Super Smash Bros. for 3DS & Wii U DLC |OT2| Lucas comes out of Nowhere!
- Thread starter IntelliHeath
- Start date
Captain Rage Quit 69
Banned
Beef, Villager is broke as fuck dude
I guess that's it then? Pleasure to do some testing with you Karst, hope I helped you find some insight to your character's mechanics. A stronger competition leads to a stronger me, after all!
And yes, Nikki is cute.
I guess that's it then? Pleasure to do some testing with you Karst, hope I helped you find some insight to your character's mechanics. A stronger competition leads to a stronger me, after all!
And yes, Nikki is cute.
Code:
[IMG]http://31.media.tumblr.com/90cabf8c01cd9361bfea608b2c68bc09/tumblr_nmhxcreNpe1qzp9weo1_540.gif[/IMG]Karsticles
Member
Lol. King of the Projectile Hill.
Time for the full writeup. Thank you for helping me so much.
Professor Beef
Banned
Karsticles
Member
After about two hours of training mode with Captain_Rage_Quit_69, to whom I owe a great debt for his patience in testing tonight, I have a more thorough breakdown of the unique "Reflect Battles" Mewtwo has to endure in this game. EVERY reflect must be treated differently, because they all have subtle differences.
(Dr.) Mario: Neither character noticeably speeds up projectiles during the reflect, so this is all about spacing. Past the ~1/4 stage distance mark, no one is killing anyone else without a mistake. Both characters have time to perfect shield or spot dodge between each reflect. There is no distance at which Mewtwo can reflect but Mario cannot return the favor. Reflecting fails after 50%, so both players must reflect on two factors: Shadow Ball's charge and staleness. Staleness can reduce damage such that Mario can lose the reflect battle due to expecting Mewtwo to fail his second reflect when he won't. Again, no guaranteed kills, but there is a staleness/charge meta at play here.
On a fresh Shadow Ball, Mewtwo will lose the reflect war. If Mewtwo throws out several Shadow Balls in a row, he will reduce its damage to the point where he can earn another reflect, capping it so Mario cannot return the projectile. This portion applies to all characters that recover from their reflect in time to reflect Shadow Ball again, so I will not repeat it each time.
Zelda: Depends on her startup and distance. The earlier she is on her reflect, the better it is for us, because she has too much recovery to participate in a reflect battle. However, if she reflects early on, her reflector can activate twice, which causes us to lose.
Additionally, Zelda's reflector speeds up projectiles it activates. This causes what I will call the "multireflect" effect. There are several multireflectors in this game, and it is generally a good thing for Mewtwo, as he is a better multireflector than most.
Multireflection can occur when any reflect can reflect the same projectile more than once in a reflect war. Mewtwo's Confusion is a multireflector, but it is only relevant if the opponent has a reflector that speeds up projectiles. If this is the case, Confusion, at close range, can potentially reflect twice. This is especially noteworthy because Confusion will multireflect even when it normally will not reflect. I suspect this is a glitch. When Zelda uses Nayru's Love at close (but reflectable) range, Confusion and Nayru's Love will multireflect at each other at an extremely fast pace. This seems to consistently lead to Zelda's death. Why?
My hypothesis: multireflectors like Fox's Reflector update the % of the projectile they are reflecting each time they come into contact with the projectile. For example, if Fox reflects a 26% Shadow Ball at Mewtwo, increasing its damage to 31%, and then Mewtwo reflects it back, raising it to 42%, Fox's reflector has to check the current 42% damage value of Shadow Ball against Reflector's damage reflect limit (50% on a single projectile). However, I do not think Mewtwo's Confusion updates the projectile value for its multireflect events (multiple Confusions update fine). This means that when Fox reflects a 49% Shadow Ball at Mewtwo, IF the previous Confusion hitbox is still active, it will reflect Shadow Ball until the hitbox is gone, because it the game still registers the projectile as being < 50% for the purposes of Confusion's hitbox.
Multireflecting plays a huge role in the potential outcomes of Mewtwo's reflect battles. Against opponents that can have multireflect events against Mewtwo (because their reflects speed up projectiles, or because the reflect has a hitbox that moves forward), it is thus best for Mewtwo to reflect as late as possible to create a better lingering hitbox.
To return to Zelda, we almost always win the multireflect war against Zelda. However, we need to reflect late, and at the right distance. Multireflects almost always lead to KOs, because Shadow Ball is usually doing 70%+ by the time the multireflect resolves.
(Dark) Pit: This one is weird. If Pit's reflector multihits, Shadow Ball seems to lose its hitbox. It just passes straight through Mewtwo with no effect at all. It hit once out of about 20 trials. Thus, in general, there is no harm in attempting to fight a reflect war against Pit, though his reflect does speed Shadow Ball up a bit.
Palutena: Multireflect is always a loss for us if she reflects late. Multireflect wins for us if she reflects early. We can choose whether to engage in a multireflect event, of course, so Mewtwo players should learn to distinguish these two situations.
Fox: The staleness game is extemely important here. A 75% charged Shadow Ball beats Fox's normal reflector after the second Confusion, as well. A second fully charged Shadow Ball in a row also wins. Most Fox players will not be aware of these factors, so we need to abuse them.
Multireflect occurs with us winning 100% of the time when properly spaced. Proper spacing is Fox at the edge of Omega Battlefield with Mewtwo just inside of the central circle on the same side as Mewtwo. Kills at 0%.
Falco: We can straight-up win the reflect war at some distances if Falco reflects late. 75% charge is wise so you Falco has to properly time his reflect twice, and he still loses the exchange if he tries for the third reflect. Multireflect battles lead to our victory.
ROB: We almost always win the reflect war. Multireflect doesn't really happen because his side B can only reflect for roughly the first half of the move. If we reflect once, he tends to eat it.
Ness: If Shadow Ball is fresh, Ness can sometimes spike it up to 52% from one swing, which means we can't reflect it. If we can reflect up close, we win the exchange. Beyond that range, we give Ness a huge heal. Ick. Ness will KO us at 0% with a successful reflect, so be mindful. He could just heal it anyway...
Villager: Dont throw Shadow Ball at Villager. He can always absorb. Always. He will also do 40% with it upon throwing it out after Pocket, which breaks shields and KOs very early. His pocketed Shadow Ball will completely negate another fully charged Shadow Ball. Don't throw Shadow Ball at Villager.
Mii Gunner: See Mario.
Mega man: His reflect fails at 25%. Fire away.
Also, several times after being hit by a triple reflected Shadow Ball, Mewtwo took two ticks of 1% damage while recovering. A total mystery as to why.
If anyone has questions, let me know.
(Dr.) Mario: Neither character noticeably speeds up projectiles during the reflect, so this is all about spacing. Past the ~1/4 stage distance mark, no one is killing anyone else without a mistake. Both characters have time to perfect shield or spot dodge between each reflect. There is no distance at which Mewtwo can reflect but Mario cannot return the favor. Reflecting fails after 50%, so both players must reflect on two factors: Shadow Ball's charge and staleness. Staleness can reduce damage such that Mario can lose the reflect battle due to expecting Mewtwo to fail his second reflect when he won't. Again, no guaranteed kills, but there is a staleness/charge meta at play here.
On a fresh Shadow Ball, Mewtwo will lose the reflect war. If Mewtwo throws out several Shadow Balls in a row, he will reduce its damage to the point where he can earn another reflect, capping it so Mario cannot return the projectile. This portion applies to all characters that recover from their reflect in time to reflect Shadow Ball again, so I will not repeat it each time.
Zelda: Depends on her startup and distance. The earlier she is on her reflect, the better it is for us, because she has too much recovery to participate in a reflect battle. However, if she reflects early on, her reflector can activate twice, which causes us to lose.
Additionally, Zelda's reflector speeds up projectiles it activates. This causes what I will call the "multireflect" effect. There are several multireflectors in this game, and it is generally a good thing for Mewtwo, as he is a better multireflector than most.
Multireflection can occur when any reflect can reflect the same projectile more than once in a reflect war. Mewtwo's Confusion is a multireflector, but it is only relevant if the opponent has a reflector that speeds up projectiles. If this is the case, Confusion, at close range, can potentially reflect twice. This is especially noteworthy because Confusion will multireflect even when it normally will not reflect. I suspect this is a glitch. When Zelda uses Nayru's Love at close (but reflectable) range, Confusion and Nayru's Love will multireflect at each other at an extremely fast pace. This seems to consistently lead to Zelda's death. Why?
My hypothesis: multireflectors like Fox's Reflector update the % of the projectile they are reflecting each time they come into contact with the projectile. For example, if Fox reflects a 26% Shadow Ball at Mewtwo, increasing its damage to 31%, and then Mewtwo reflects it back, raising it to 42%, Fox's reflector has to check the current 42% damage value of Shadow Ball against Reflector's damage reflect limit (50% on a single projectile). However, I do not think Mewtwo's Confusion updates the projectile value for its multireflect events (multiple Confusions update fine). This means that when Fox reflects a 49% Shadow Ball at Mewtwo, IF the previous Confusion hitbox is still active, it will reflect Shadow Ball until the hitbox is gone, because it the game still registers the projectile as being < 50% for the purposes of Confusion's hitbox.
Multireflecting plays a huge role in the potential outcomes of Mewtwo's reflect battles. Against opponents that can have multireflect events against Mewtwo (because their reflects speed up projectiles, or because the reflect has a hitbox that moves forward), it is thus best for Mewtwo to reflect as late as possible to create a better lingering hitbox.
To return to Zelda, we almost always win the multireflect war against Zelda. However, we need to reflect late, and at the right distance. Multireflects almost always lead to KOs, because Shadow Ball is usually doing 70%+ by the time the multireflect resolves.
(Dark) Pit: This one is weird. If Pit's reflector multihits, Shadow Ball seems to lose its hitbox. It just passes straight through Mewtwo with no effect at all. It hit once out of about 20 trials. Thus, in general, there is no harm in attempting to fight a reflect war against Pit, though his reflect does speed Shadow Ball up a bit.
Palutena: Multireflect is always a loss for us if she reflects late. Multireflect wins for us if she reflects early. We can choose whether to engage in a multireflect event, of course, so Mewtwo players should learn to distinguish these two situations.
Fox: The staleness game is extemely important here. A 75% charged Shadow Ball beats Fox's normal reflector after the second Confusion, as well. A second fully charged Shadow Ball in a row also wins. Most Fox players will not be aware of these factors, so we need to abuse them.
Multireflect occurs with us winning 100% of the time when properly spaced. Proper spacing is Fox at the edge of Omega Battlefield with Mewtwo just inside of the central circle on the same side as Mewtwo. Kills at 0%.
Falco: We can straight-up win the reflect war at some distances if Falco reflects late. 75% charge is wise so you Falco has to properly time his reflect twice, and he still loses the exchange if he tries for the third reflect. Multireflect battles lead to our victory.
ROB: We almost always win the reflect war. Multireflect doesn't really happen because his side B can only reflect for roughly the first half of the move. If we reflect once, he tends to eat it.
Ness: If Shadow Ball is fresh, Ness can sometimes spike it up to 52% from one swing, which means we can't reflect it. If we can reflect up close, we win the exchange. Beyond that range, we give Ness a huge heal. Ick. Ness will KO us at 0% with a successful reflect, so be mindful. He could just heal it anyway...
Villager: Dont throw Shadow Ball at Villager. He can always absorb. Always. He will also do 40% with it upon throwing it out after Pocket, which breaks shields and KOs very early. His pocketed Shadow Ball will completely negate another fully charged Shadow Ball. Don't throw Shadow Ball at Villager.
Mii Gunner: See Mario.
Mega man: His reflect fails at 25%. Fire away.
Also, several times after being hit by a triple reflected Shadow Ball, Mewtwo took two ticks of 1% damage while recovering. A total mystery as to why.
If anyone has questions, let me know.
Professor Beef
Banned
The best thing about Pocket is that it's basically a huge orb around Villager that sucks in nearly anything. Above, below, waaaay in front, behind, etc. Shit is great.
Karsticles
Member
And invincible vs. Everything. Like an extra spot dodge.
Professor Beef
Banned
Yep. If you're ballsy you can use it to dodge attacks. Can't really get a punish off of it because of the "whiff" animation, but it's still nice. I've dodged attacks by dumb luck because of a missed button press.
Captain Rage Quit 69
Banned
Another thing to point out is that Villager seems to reset any reflect-multiplied damage and speed when he pockets something. No matter how much you reflect something, when Villager pockets it the projectile resets to its base damage and speed * whatever Pocket multiplies it by.
Of course, I'm not telling it to Beef like he doesn't know, I just thought this would be a neat bit of trivia for everyone to see.
And Karst, I think you owe me a Ryu if he's confirmed!
Anonymous Tipster
Member
Are those 1% ticks the ones you get for being in the off screen bubble, or are these something unrelated?
Karsticles
Member
You can see the fruit of your labor above!Another thing to point out is that Villager seems to reset any reflect-multiplied damage and speed when he pockets something. No matter how much you reflect something, when Villager pockets it the projectile resets to its base damage and speed * whatever Pocket multiplies it by.
Of course, I'm not telling it to Beef like he doesn't know, I just thought this would be a neat bit of trivia for everyone to see.
And Karst, I think you owe me a Ryu if he's confirmed!
Pocket always takes it to 1.9x if > 1.9x, like FSLink posted.
You can't demand money after charity work. -_- I would have had my wife be the reflector if that were the case! She loves helping me in training mode.
And geez trying to swindle money from someone on a teacher's salary...
With 150k in student loans...
With a 6-month pregnant wife...
Who is going to quit her job soon...
Feel bad yet?
If you really feel that would settle the debt, though, I will buy him for you. I have some money on the Wii U account. Can you gift stuff?
I had no idea that was a thing. Explained!
Professor Beef
Banned
You can't. Otherwise I'd be gifting things to my friend. If you have codes you can hand those off though.
Professor Beef
Banned
OH SHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIT
Captain Rage Quit 69
Banned
Lol I'm joshing dude, if anything I'd buy you Roy to spread the fun.You can see the fruit of your labor above!
Pocket always takes it to 1.9x if > 1.9x, like FSLink posted.
You can't demand money after charity work. -_- I would have had my wife be the reflector if that were the case! She loves helping me in training mode.
And geez trying to swindle money from someone on a teacher's salary...
With 150k in student loans...
With a 6-month pregnant wife...
Who is going to quit her job soon...
Feel bad yet?
If you really feel that would settle the debt, though, I will buy him for you. I have some money on the Wii U account. Can you gift stuff?
I had no idea that was a thing. Explained!
No need for the debt payment, unless you wanna give me free wins for this season's ranbats, I'm fine knowing that I can be of service as a Fox main.Also I find it funny you've played this long and didn't know about off-screen damage lol.
HOLY SHIT
HOLY SHIT
HOLY SHIT
HOLY SHIT
O
L
Y
S
H
I
T
Okay, Roy and Ryu truly confirmed. That's all characaters (Mewtwo, Lucas, Ryu, Roy?) that were found in the code for the game by people digging right? Does this mean these are the last DLC characters?
MaverickHunterAsh
Member
Oh my god, how in the world did Ryu and Roy get leaked like that?! Someone with new DLC already installed obviously beat the game with them to get those videos!
Captain Rage Quit 69
Banned
Nah, not the last ones. Smash ballot runs until October remember? We'll probably get at least one more, like Wolf!Okay, Roy and Ryu truly confirmed. That's all characaters (Mewtwo, Lucas, Ryu, Roy?) that were found in the code for the game by people digging right? Does this mean these are the last DLC characters?
BELIEVE
Red Arremer
Member
Okay, so I have a question for those of you who bought the double pack for Mewtwo (i.e. him for both 3DS and Wii U versions):
If I buy the pack, how exactly does it work for both consoles, do I get a code for each? And if so, do they expire?
If I buy the pack, how exactly does it work for both consoles, do I get a code for each? And if so, do they expire?
Karsticles
Member
According to Reddit, they updated the JP version early. Data mining found these videos among them, as well as a Squid Girl trophy, and Dreamland 64 trophy.
Also, CRQ: I will buy all the DLC characters.
Also, CRQ: I will buy all the DLC characters.
One code for each.
The popularity poll goes until October, I think. We are getting character DLC through 2016.Okay, Roy and Ryu truly confirmed. That's all characaters (Mewtwo, Lucas, Ryu, Roy?) that were found in the code for the game by people digging right? Does this mean these are the last DLC characters?
Karsticles
Member
Going to sleep. Would someone remind me how Marth and Roy were different in Melee? I just remember fire, and surviving longer as Roy for some reason.
Red Arremer
Member
Thank you. Do they expire after X amount of time? Like, say, if I bought the Lucas bundle, would I have to do use those codes within a month or whatever?
Melee Marth had a few moves that were changed in Brawl (I don't recall what exactly tho). Roy also did not have the tipper; instead, his blade did more damage/knockback. He also was overall slower, but heavier as you say.
Professor Beef
Banned
Marth had more damage/knockback at the tip of the sword; Roy's sweetspot was at the hilt. Marth's counter, no matter the attack, always did 7% damage. Roy's would scale based on the attack. I think Roy was heavier too, but that's all I can remember.
I totally forgot about the ballot! Now I'm hyped again.The popularity poll goes until October, I think. We are getting character DLC through 2016.
Anyone want to play by the way? I have an hour or two to kill before work!
Professor Beef
Banned
Over Lucina's spot.
you're on my list
Out_Of_Ammo
Member
Man I can't wait to try out Ryu. Don't care much for Lucas and Roy though, but I'll buy them anyway.
Anyone wants to play?
Anyone wants to play?
Shin_Okita
Member
Anybody want play a few games!? nnid the_tsch
Shin_Okita
Member
Still around ? we can try a few matches! hoping the connection will hold! uk here!
Karsticles
Member
I don't know for sure if they expire.
Out_Of_Ammo
Member
Yup, I'll add you. Belgium here so connection should be good.
Out_Of_Ammo
Member
Out_Of_Ammo
Member
Join my room.
Red Arremer
Member
Well I'll just wait with buying Lucas until you guys can check for me, or send a mail to Nintendo support.
Thanks though.shoryukens
Member
Ryu looks beautiful, even better than I imagined.
And the pricing is excellent, assuming they're a going to be 4$. Definite day one.
And the pricing is excellent, assuming they're a going to be 4$. Definite day one.
Out_Of_Ammo
Member
Hmmm lag is pretty bad :/
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
I'll try out Ryu but the other characters don't interest me. Lack of customs really irritates me.
Out_Of_Ammo
Member
Lol at the gordo ping pong.
Hahaha that SD was hilarious.
Hahaha that SD was hilarious.
Cyberman65
Member
Really hyped for Ryu being in, but Roy is just eh to me. Looking to make Ryu another secondary.