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[jaxword]

Wow

So do you think that because someone holds a belief, the rest of the world should comply and respect it?

 

[Danny Dudekisser]

Who said they are scared? What is your proof of this?

That they gave into the whining.

 

[~Kinggi~]

Its really nice to play the victim but without proof this is completely baseless, I don't remember a single time where a game developer was actually "threatened" due to religious reasons.

It doesnt have to be a game developer that is threatened for the implication to remain. Muslims have a long, very publicized history now of inciting or threatening violence for depictions of Muhammad or other religious affiliations and you are naive not to think that the reason so many developers/artists bend over so easily is because they dont want to deal with the drama or potential threat that could occur from their actions.

 

[GhostTrick]

I understand that it would not be fair to insinuate that every person complaining is already starting to light the torches. But too much has happened during the last few years to not get extremely annoyed by those people. Of course they have every right to complain. But it's also very sad that people are scared enough that they instantly give in to all demands.

The reason why the symbols are there is completely irrelevant. Namco artists can do whatever they want, even if it was just a fuck up. Covered by freedom of speech and art. If people think religions overrule that, they can fuck off. Welcome back to the stone age.

But then again, that guy on twitter never asked to remove it IIRC.
Also, I do agree about freedom of speech etc... but how could you expect people to not feel annoyed if you try to annoy them ? I mean, it's like you can mock about people, and expect them to smile and say: "thank you". I respect everyone's belief. If people want to believe in God, or not, that's their choice. Some people doesn't want to hear about religions, it's okay, but why bring religious content, and then complain that people complain ?

 

[Windom Earle]

Who said they are scared? What is your proof of this?

Who knows, maybe Harada, Activision, Comedy Central, Nintendo, Sony etc. etc. just do it out of respect for the culture and beliefs of the muslims. I guess...

 

[TheBaronOfNA]

The reason why the symbols are there is completely irrelevant. Namco artists can do whatever they want, even if it was just a fuck up. Covered by freedom of speech and art. If people think religions overrule that, they can fuck off. Welcome back to the stone age.

So... The return Blackface style art in a video game with a international audience in mind and without no purpose beyond "it looks cute" ?

 

[2San]

The reason why the symbols are there is completely irrelevant. Namco artists can do whatever they want, even if it was just a fuck up. Covered by freedom of speech and art. If people think religions overrule that, they can fuck off. Welcome back to the stone age.

Harada can do whatever the fuck he wants as well. If you think you can overrule that you can fuck off. Welcome to the stone age.

The nerve of him being respectful to other people. Honestly how Is showing respect to other people believes a bad thing.

 

[Currygan]

I'm really questioning why some devs are so oblivious to certain things. There already have been a lot of similar cases, just don't do it in the first place and avoid the issue altogether

 

[onQ123]

if it's something that most of us never noticed in the 1st place why do so many people have a problem with them removing it?

 

[TheBaronOfNA]

Quote from the last page in case all of you missed it.

I guess that before giving my opinion on this bit of news, I should first specify that I am a muslim.

With that out of the way, personally while I do understand how some of my fellow muslims would feel annoyed at this (note my choice of words), I don't find it to be that big of a deal at all. I probably would have never even paid attention to it unless somebody pointed it out to me as I'm pretty sure it is the case with most people. And I'm pretty sure there's a lot of people like me out there ...

It can definitely be interpreted as offensive in our cultures, but one would really need to be a conspiracy theorist to think that there was any kind of malicious intent. And even if there was, most educated - and I am stressing educated - muslims would just find it silly and move on.

Now to go back to the twitter question, it seems to me that the person asking was quite polite about it, and the tone wasn't aggressive at all. I feel as though he was trying to make sure that there was no malicious intent behind it (mocking a religion) rather than requesting it to be changed and making threats about it. That is, unless I have missed something in the OP.

I don't think he deserves all of the harsh words that can be seen on the first page in this particular instance. I won't lie that I did feel a bit uncomfortable reading through it, and I can't help but feel targeted by some of the disdain expressed towards a particular group of muslims in a manner that I can only qualify as clumsy.

With that said, I think I will excuse myself from this thread, I just wanted to share my feelings with you guys, maybe some of you will care.

 

[Windom Earle]

Harada can do whatever the fuck he wants as well. If you think you can overrule that you can fuck off. Welcome to the stone age.

The nerve of him being respectful to other people. Honestly how Is showing respect to other people believes a bad thing.

Talking in general, not just about this case. Too much ridiculous stuff happened in the last few years.

So... The return Blackface style art in a video game with a international audience in mind and without no purpose beyond "it looks cute" ?

Que?

But then again, that guy on twitter never asked to remove it IIRC.
Also, I do agree about freedom of speech etc... but how could you expect people to not feel annoyed if you try to annoy them ? I mean, it's like you can mock about people, and expect them to smile and say: "thank you". I respect everyone's belief. If people want to believe in God, or not, that's their choice. Some people doesn't want to hear about religions, it's okay, but why bring religious content, and then complain that people complain ?

People are free to complain, and this case seems to be a bit less serious than the MW2 one. (Even though it seems not just this one guy complained).



Outta here now, need to find some sleep and those threads will never end well.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

When Christianity was being persecuted, some governments used to line people up to step on the Bible and then kill them if they refused.

It wasn't a big deal, right? Even if you're christian, why not just step on it? It can't possibly be considered offensive by anyone to do so, correct?

I am genuinely surprised it bothers people this is being removed. Most of you didn't know it was there and it's being removed because it offends some people who do know it's there. They don't have to remove it, they haven't been threatened to do so, or threatened with a lawsuit, they're just not huge assholes and realize that offending people for a mistake and then standing by it is not a human thing to do.

 

[braves01]

Who knows, maybe Harada, Activision, Comedy Central, Nintendo, Sony etc. etc. just do it out of respect for the culture and beliefs of the muslims. I guess...

I highly doubt a single offended tweet can get crosses removed from any game.

 

[hemo memo]

So do you think that because someone holds a belief, the rest of the world should comply and respect it?

Just respect their religion like they respect yours thats it.

 

[Barkley's Justice]

Harada doesn't seem to have a problem with it. It's obvious the Namco team didn't know what they were doing -- it's inclusion wasn't a conscious artistic decission, in other words.

So I don't see this as a form of censorship. The team doesnt seem to give a shit.

 

[TheBaronOfNA]

Que?.

"Namco artists can do whatever they want. Is freedom of speech and art "

So, hypothetically speaking if Namco decides to do a game with a lot of blackface imagery and plans to sell it outside Japan, is still okay? Even if they don't know the racist connotations?

 

[Skyzard]

It doesnt have to be a game developer that is threatened for the implication to remain. Muslims have a long, very publicized history now of inciting or threatening violence for depictions of Muhammad or other religious affiliations and you are naive not to think that the reason so many developers/artists bend over so easily is because they dont want to deal with the drama or potential threat that could occur from their actions.

As of 2009, over 1.6 billion or about 23% of the world population are Muslims.

Quite a lot of people I think.

 

[TimeEffect]

Who said they are scared? What is your proof of this?

I'm sure there are many groups-- feminists, parents, Christians, etc. that complain to developers/publishers. The difference should be obvious to you-- Islam is more vocal than the rest. Do you think it's just a matter of developers truly respecting Muslims? Or do you not think the clear evidence of Muslims reacting so strongly to similar stories plays a role in this?

Harada can do whatever the fuck he wants as well. If you think you can overrule that you can fuck off. Welcome to the stone age.

The nerve of him being respectful to other people. Honestly how Is showing respect to other people believes a bad thing.

Nothing to do with respect, you can keep thinking that though.

 

[~Kinggi~]

Quite a lot of people I think.

Ill rephrase then, "Islamic Extremists" have that publicized history. Shame they are Muslim and have hijacked things for those folk.

 

[GhostTrick]

I'm sure there are many groups-- feminists, parents, Christians, etc. that complain to developers/publishers. The difference should be obvious to you-- Islam is more vocal than the rest. Do you think it's just a matter of developers truly respecting Muslims? Or do you not think the clear evidence of Muslims reacting so strongly to similar stories plays a role in this?



Nothing to do with respect, you can keep thinking that though.

Yup, it is impossible that Harada is showing respect and decide to remove a detail no one noticed, chaging nothing to the level, but avoid offending people.
He must have been threatened, this is the only thing possible./sarcasm

 

[Skyzard]

Ill rephrase then, "Islamic Extremists" have that publicized history. Shame they are Muslim and have hijacked things for those folk.

Not sure many are playing Tekken but you never know..

 

[Ysiadmihi]

Losing the original mirror shield and Fire Temple chant from OoT was bothersome. Losing some barely noticeable art in a fighting game stage is a total non-issue.

That said, there is a bit of embarrassing dishonesty going on in this thread.

 

[DiipuSurotu]

Don't you actually kill the Abrahamic God in a few J-RPGs? Where's the rage?

Yeah in Xenogears for instance you fight Yahwe. But the American translator of the game convinced Square to rename him "Deus" in BOTH the Japanese and English versions of the game to avoid controversy.

 

[TheBaronOfNA]

Ill rephrase then, "Islamic Extremists" have that publicized history. Shame they are Muslim and have hijacked things for those folk.

And the guys commenting about this issue to Harada in Twitter were not extremists.

 

[Man God]

"Namco artists can do whatever they want. Is freedom of speech and art "

So, hypothetically speaking if Namco decides to do a game with a lot of blackface imagery and plans to sell it outside Japan, is still okay? Even if they don't know the racist connotations?

Namco still makes a LOT of DBZ games.

 

[jaxword]

Just respect their religion like they respect yours thats it.

What happens when the religious beliefs directly contradict each other?

 

[antitrop]

Oh my God, this shit drives me nuts.

 

[SmokyDave]

Phew, that could've really ruined Allah's day. He'd have smote people left, right & centre.

No, we wouldn't.

Aren't you the chap that had Tapha Niang altered in LittleBigPlanet?

Apologies if my memory has failed me.

 

[2San]

I'm sure there are many groups-- feminists, parents, Christians, etc. that complain to developers/publishers. The difference should be obvious to you-- Islam is more vocal than the rest. Do you think it's just a matter of developers truly respecting Muslims? Or do you not think the clear evidence of Muslims reacting so strongly to similar stories plays a role in this?

Nothing to do with respect, you can keep thinking that though.

Do really think that the average Muslim or extremists cares about this? They don't even know. Video games are pretty low on the terrorist hit list. There was no outrage. There are a lot of Muslim gamers out there, why the hell would a dev intentionally want to offend them?

 

[ASIS]

That they gave into the whining.

There is no whining in this case.

It doesnt have to be a game developer that is threatened for the implication to remain. Muslims have a long, very publicized history now of inciting or threatening violence for depictions of Muhammad or other religious affiliations and you are naive not to think that the reason so many developers/artists bend over so easily is because they dont want to deal with the drama or potential threat that could occur from their actions.

Sorry, but all of this is baseless assumptions linking two different scenarios at hand here.

The first of which, is the intentional message of criticism. This is where the depictions of Mohamed takes place, where the controversy of South Park started, where even games such as The Binding of Isaac generated debates. If that was the intent then I agree, they deserve to show their ideas, and unfortunately some fellow Muslims have acted in extreme inhumane ways against that. I agree, they would cower in fear if they chose this approach... But that is not the case here.

This is the second case, where Developers unintentionally include content that would be described as "offensive" to us, and we shed light on that subject. Whenever this happened, the developers showed respect. Not in fear of their lives, but to relieve any possible controversy and still capture their audience. Its not about the threats, its about client satisfaction.

My proof of this is OOT, where Nintendo still reacted the exact same way as Namco did just now. If what you say is true then why didn't Nintendo react a bit differently? They had no violent oppositions at the time, so why didn't they just keep the original track in? How is that any different from what Namco is doing?

Furthermore, to prove that Nintendo did NOT change the song due to fear, is because of their stance on Pokemon in the early 2000s. The company generated heavy movements against it with the franchise, and what did they do? Nothing. If they were really scared, why didn't comply like they did with OOT? Because the second case is not about compliance, its about respect. It has nothing to do with fear.

EDIT: I apologize for my terrible writing. Its late and I'm kinda sleepy at the moment

 

[TheBaronOfNA]

Namco still makes a LOT of DBZ games.

And Speedy Gonzales is not exactly that offensive in my country... but... you know, things change. (and last time I checked, Mr Popo was blue)

 

[TimeEffect]

"Namco artists can do whatever they want. Is freedom of speech and art "

So, hypothetically speaking if Namco decides to do a game with a lot of blackface imagery and plans to sell it outside Japan, is still okay? Even if they don't know the racist connotations?

There's a massive difference between race and religion, I'm sorry you can't see it.

 

[hemo memo]

Nothing to do with respect, you can keep thinking that though.

 

[sp3000]

Gotta love pandering to muslims

 

[ASIS]

Ph

Aren't you the chap that had Tapha Niang altered in LittleBigPlanet?

Apologies if my memory has failed me.

No worries, but i don't even know what Tapha Niang is, so it couldn't have been me.

 

[TheBaronOfNA]

There's a massive difference between race and religion, I'm sorry you can't see it.

I'm speaking, of course, in pure terms of basic "cultural identity and differences" and is shame you cannot see it in that terms (specially when persons has been discriminated and killed because their believes before Christianity was a thing) .

 

[SmokyDave]

No worries, but i don't even know what Tapha Niang is, so it couldn't have been me.

It was the altered song that caused the delay in LBP's release. No idea why I thought you were the chap that raised the initial objection, it was actually a PSN user called 'yasser'.

I blame the drugs.

 

[Polari]

Gotta love pandering to muslims

It's not pandering, it's rectifying an inadvertent error that is culturally insensitive.

 

[Canis lupus]

I respect Harada san so much.

 

[Erebus]

This is getting ridiculous.

 

[toastyToast]

Showing your foot to something is an incredibly offensive gesture in Arab countries (by association to muslims). From a design perspective, it doesn't make sense that Allah would be written on the floor in a Saudi stage. Somewhere, but definitely not the floor.

It was clearly a design error and not some clever ruse to insult muslims.

Just relax

 

[Htown]

For people who claim you're so angry people cared so much about an "offensive" floor texture because it doesn't matter at all, you sure are pissed that they're taking it out.

 

[Vilix]

It's not pandering, it's rectifying an inadvertent error that is culturally insensitive.

But if videogames are a form of art, and art is free speech, where do we draw the line? This offense is so trivial. Yet if there is so much of what looks like an image of Allah or Mohammed then it seems the whole world must be purged with fire. Smh.

 

[antitrop]

For people who claim you're so angry people cared so much about an "offensive" floor texture because it doesn't matter at all, you sure are pissed that they're taking it out.

I'm not pissed they're taking it out, I'm pissed that it's an issue in the first place.

 

[Geek]

I just don't understand why people like Harada who make commercial products are interested in being respectful to their fanbase. It's like, you can ask someone politely to remove something offensive that they're ignorant of... and they'll just do it?

It's mind boggling.

 

[TheBaronOfNA]

But if videogames are a form of art, and art is free speech, where do we draw the line? .

When is not intentional and/or have artistic integrity beyond "it looked cool" like in this case

 

[Uncle Rupee]

I thought it was considered sacrelicious to depict Mohammed / Allah in any form. Wouldn't that also include writing their names into design motifs like these decorations?

 

[Vilix]

When is not intentional and/or have artistic integrity beyond "it looked cool" like in this case

Who said artistic license ever had to have intergrity?

 

[Sayah]

Harada is a great man. Good to see he responded fast.

As a Hindu, I find the eating of cows to be offensive. Excuse me while I go to McDonald's and slap hamburgers out of people's hands.

That's not the same. By that logic, Muslims and Jews should also be at McDonald's slapping pork sandwiches out of people's hands.

 

[TheBaronOfNA]

Who said artistic license ever had to have intergrity?

Then, like I said before:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=43676139&postcount=116