I guess it depends on the individual. I would buy a Tesla with or without the rebate. When/if I get the $7500, I don't intend to pay that towards the car. It's just a nice boost to my savings account.
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Tesla Model 3 will be revealed on March 31st
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I guess it depends on the individual. I would buy a Tesla with or without the rebate. When/if I get the $7500, I don't intend to pay that towards the car. It's just a nice boost to my savings account.
It's a credit not a rebate I thought? You would have to stregically plan to lower your taxes via payroll deduction a year in advance to get the full 7500. It's not a rebate.
Living the Dream
Member
Elon better personally deliver my car before 03/31 or I'm going elsewhere. The major selling point of this car was them advertising the 7500 credit and if it doesn't make it, then I see this as false advertising
/s
It is a shame, I bet people really feel this. That is not how tax credits work
m_shortpants
Member
I live in a condo, so this car is out the picture for me for a few years. Unless I charge exclusively at superchargers.
No you dont want to lower your taxes to get the credit. You have to have a tax liability of at least 7500 to get the full credit. If you lower your tax liability too much, you will not be able to get the full credit.
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
No condo parking? Get an extension cable or something for charger.
A standard 110 outlet would take like a week to fully charge the car. If you only have a 2 or 3 mile commute each day this might be workable, but if you run more than 12 - 15% of the battery down you will not be able to charge over night off a standard outlet. You need a 220 outlet to charge overnight which most apartments/condos are not going to have easily accessible.
First car rolls off the production line on Friday. First 30 deliveries happen on the 28th at the event, which is also probably when we'll get all the details and concrete info on the car.
Nobody knows when test drive models will be available, but I'd wager sometime this fall.
Ultrarobotninja
Member
So if deliveries are prioritized to employees first then current Tesla car owners, I'm pretty sure the first 30 will be all employees. It definitely takes some of the magic out of a release party when none of the 30 will be from the general public/previous Tesla owners.
I've been considering it. I have a spot in line for the model 3 (I waited in line in person, so potentially not super far out), but I do prefer the S. Dunno.
On any tesla, or just the model 3? That's an awesome incentive.
Wow
Living the Dream
Member
I might go this route
No, I want full self driving hardware, even if the software is a few years away.
AstroNut325
Member
Question:
The folks considering a new or used Model S or a new Model 3, how are you planning on paying for it? Financing it? Or paying straight cash? Or something else?
The folks considering a new or used Model S or a new Model 3, how are you planning on paying for it? Financing it? Or paying straight cash? Or something else?
Valkyr Junkie
Member
The same way as any car, financing. Interest rates are super low, and cars depreciate at such a massive rate paying cash doesn't make financial sense.
When I paid off my last car, I kept making the payment but into a savings account to be a down payment for my next car. So I have like 11k to put down from that savings and the rest I will finance.
I thought there was a 6 month grace period once the amount of cars passes the threshold. So you are saying there are estimates that the threshold will be passed in September?
It is not a 6 month grace period, it is that the credit will extend through the quarter that Tesla hits is 200,000 sold car in the US and the following quarter. So, if they sell their 200,000 car on the last day of a fiscal quarter then the grace period would be 3 months and 1 day. At that point it phases down to 50% for 2 quarters and then 25% for 2 more quarters. There is a ton of variability in these estimates, so until Tesla says they hit 200k there is really no way to know for sure.
Living the Dream
Member
In case anyone doesn't know; used cars do not apply for the Tax credit
Gotcha, thanks
Jason's Ultimatum
Member
I'm also curious how these Teslas will depreciate versus traditional gas powered vehicles, given far fewer moving parts. Looking at used Model S (some even sub $40k, which I find crazy) and they still list mileage but I'm less clear on which parts are subject to wear and tear on these vehicles versus gas powered ones.
Was up at the start of trading, then it seems like people started to take some profit out. Buy on the rumor sell on the news.
Model S is not a compact car so urban driving (parking, etc) is not going to be as easy as a 3. And pre owned cars are not eligible for AP upgrades IIRC...what you get is what you get.
also, this is just IMO, but the non-facelift model s looks pretty dated. Or maybe because I see 10+ of them every day on the road I'm just jaded towards the design.
And stay away from 2012-2014 models, they had a lot of bugs that got worked out over time
Financing because interest rates are low makes sense (since you could probably beat the interest rate by investing), but I don't understand the second point. Why does depreciation affect whether paying cash or getting a loan makes financial sense?
Unknown Soldier
Member
I bought a used S. I'm deeply in love with my car.
Make sure you get one with AP1 hardware. Autopilot is like the most amazing thing ever in rush hour traffic. You just sit there and chill while everyone else is popping veins in stop-and-go hell.
I've been thinking about making a Tesla OT, if no one else wants to do it I'll get working on it.
Charging via an ordinary 12 amp outlet is slow, but it's not that slow. They typically charge at a rate of about 5 MPH. So, an 8 hour charge adds ~40 miles of range, or if you plug in right after coming home and unplug 11 hours later, you'll add about 55 miles of range. If you can charge at work, add another 40 miles per work day on top of that. And of course, if you leave the car parked for most of the weekend, that'll essentially fill a Model 3 from empty. (~240 miles added over 48 hours.)
I drove my Leaf for about six months with nothing but Level 1 charging and it was fine. I only had a 14 mile (round trip) commute, so I only plugged-in a couple nights a week.
Yes, a 240V charger is more-better, but it's only twice as good. It's still an overnight sort of thing. I think mine charged at about 11 MPH? It gives you a slightly better ability to do quick "emergency charges" after you've screwed up, but it isn't a quantum leap over even the slowest of chargers.
All that said, I wouldn't buy an EV unless I had a garage to charge it in.
35k base without the credit. If you are part of the lucky few that still gets the full credit and has enough taxable income, you pay 27.5k.
You'll still get tax credits a year and a half after they start phasing out, unless the law is changed.
http://insideevs.com/when-will-the-7500-us-credit-expire-for-the-tesla-model-3-and-everyone-else/
Here's a nice chart for anyone that wants to visualize what the tax credit phaseout may look like.
NYR
Member
Nice call, down 2.5%. Buy the rumour, sell the news. Always. Forever.
So can anyone explain the whole tax incentive to me in the easiest way possible? I know at best, in CA, I can get up to $10k ($7,500 Fed, $2,500 St.).
How do I go about doing that? Am I guaranteed that much back when taxes season rolls around? I'm an idiot when it comes to this stuff...
How do I go about doing that? Am I guaranteed that much back when taxes season rolls around? I'm an idiot when it comes to this stuff...
I think it's on any Tesla. I'm not at work today, so I don't have access to our intranet site. We have a few vehicle chargers on plant site, and we're allowed to use them. Not many people there drive electric vehicles, so I'd be able to do the majority of my charging during my shift
n0razi
Member
When you do your taxes there should be an option to apply for the credit. They are projecting current orders to ship mid 2018 so unless you order within a couple of months from now, I think the most you will see is $3k which is not much for a $35k car.
I guess that's ok if you don't plan on going anywhere on the weekend? I have a feeling that's not good enough for most people.
This isn't true at all. Charge rate will vary based on how much current you can get from the wall and how much current your car can accept. If you have a more recent Leaf you would be able to charge from zero to full in about ~4 hours, around 20 plus miles per hour.
This I definitely agree with, though.
This is incorrect. It charges about 6.5x faster on a 220 vs a 110 given the amp difference (50 vs 15)
If I remember right, you "get" the $7,500 from the Feds at tax time, while you just have to fill out some paperwork after you take delivery of the car in order for the state to send you a $2,500 check. The car dealership will help you with those state forms.
The tax credit thing is trickier. You need to arrange things so that you actually owe at least $7,500, come tax season. I think I needed to reduce the amount that my employer was withholding, in order for that to be true for me. So, you need to know when you will be taking delivery of your EV, and start fiddling with your withholding up to a year prior to that. Once you've engineered that large (for me) tax bill, you'll fill out some extra forms when you do your taxes, and that tax bill will get reduced by $7,500. If you only owe (say) $3,000 in federal taxes, you can get that reduced to zero, but the other $4,500 doesn't show up as a refund, nor can it be rolled over into a subsequent year. Use it (all) or lose (part of) it.
I learned all about this on a Nissan Leaf forum back in 2009(?), so I bet similar threads exist on a Tesla forum somewhere.
Sorry, this is also incorrect. It has nothing to do with "owing" at the time you do your taxes, but rather what your overall tax liability was. If you had your employer withhold too much so the govt owed you 10k or if you had your employer withhold nothing so you owed 10k doesnt matter - your tax liability is the same. As long as you owed at least 7500 in tax liability for the year, then you can claim up to 7500 in the credit. No matter if your employer withheld enough or not.
I hope this helps.
NYR
Member
lol no doubt. Investors are a fickle bunch.
How much was the price tag? Or is there a site where you you got it from?
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
I know folks that made decent money on Options today.
Oops. Right, it depends entirely on what EVSE you have installed. It's possible to install a super high amperage fast charger in the home, but that's neither necessary, easy, nor common. At a given amperage, apples to apples, a 240V EVSE will charge about twice as fast a 120V EVSE. But yeah, 240V EVSEs tend to draw more amps since they "know" they will be installed on a dedicated circuit anyway. That said, I doubt most people are going to want to go above 30A @ 240V for a home EVSE, since to do so many would have to upgrade their home's electrical service.
An electric clothes dryer draws about 6,000 watts, and this is generally the "size" of circuit that a homeowner can easily and cheaply add to their garage. Yes, rich and/or lucky people can and do go much higher than that. They just don't gain much actual utility for their money.
But yes, a typical 25A vanilla 240V home EVSE charges about 3 times faster, not 2 times faster, when compared to a plain ol' 1,800W outlet. My apologies. That fact doesn't really affect the point that I was trying to make: That both "speeds" are still similar enough that it doesn't really change how one thinks about charging one's car:
Do I have plenty of juice for whatever driving I need to do tomorrow?
Yes: Okay, maybe I won't bother plugging in tonight.
No: Okay, I definitely gotta remember to plug in tonight.
No matter which kind of home EVSE you own, you're still probably gonna plug-in in the evening, and then likely not unplug until the following day. Because laziness. Tripling your charging speed will often just mean the charger shuts itself off at 10PM instead of 4AM. Sometimes that's important,(off peak rates!) but usually, it isn't.
I still recommend getting a reasonably beefy EVSE, if you have the means. Not necessarily a 50A one however. Diminishing returns. It'll likely cost a bunch more to install, and still won't be fast enough to do useful amounts of "oh-fuck-I-forgot-to-charge" charging.
TLDR: In the home, "fast" charging often isn't a heck of a lot more useful than "slow" charging. That's because both are still pretty darn slow, but still fast enough for most people. (People that drive 20-40 miles per day, and can charge overnight.)
Oh, no kidding? I swear I remembered that that credit could only decrease your year end "tax bill", but could never increase a refund. Either I'm remembering that wrong, or the entire 2010 online Leaf community was taking crazy pills! Probably the former. Maybe both.
In any event, you will need to have a liability that big in order to take advantage of the full credit. Which means you'd need to earn ~$55k or more, filing single? I imagine this will generally be true if you are currently working and can afford a Tesla, but I suppose it might get tricky for someone that was retired or was otherwise not earning much income within the year the vehicle entered service.
Here's the form that you would have needed to include with your 2016 tax return in order to claim (any of) the credit: https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f8936.pdf
55k single not counting any deductions. So if you have a mortgage and deduct interest, that counts against you for the credit if you are right in the line.
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