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[speculawyer]

Well, after super-cheap oil caused by world-wide economic collapse, oil just now cleared $71/barrel. Gas is over $3/gallon where I live. Time for this thread to come back . . . though I'm still editing the OP. The EV industry has really struggled over the past year due to the cheap oil and lack of funding (causing some EV biz bankruptcies) but the stronger companies have continued to push through the dark period.

And now, EVs may have a new lease on life. There is now a $7500 tax credit for highway-speed 4 wheel EVs (10% tax credit up to $2500 for 3-wheelers & NEVs).
One big problem . . . there are effectively no 4-wheel highway speed EVs on the market to buy! AAAAaaargh! But the race is on!

Edit: Requirements for ability to appear in the OP: The vehicle must have at least 3 wheels and be a pure electric or a series hybrid . . . parallel hybrids don't qualify. The vehicle must be able to carry at least two people in an enclosed manner although convertibles are allowed.. The vehicle must not be an exotic that is extremely expensive (over $125K) or limited quantity (venturi). And fuck hydrogen fuel cell cars . . . too expensive, inefficient, no infrastructure, no good source of hydrogen.

I wanna get away from expensive oil from dictators and religious fundamentalists. I want an electric car. Why? Reduce trade deficit, stop funding dictators and religious fundamentalists, reduce pollution, avoid the expensive inevitable expensive gas prices, reduce greenhouse gases, help push the transition along, etc.

And I mean a real car . . . these electric cars that can only do 25 to 40 mph don't count. (The ZENN, ZAP, GEM, REVA, Buddy, and Dynasty iT cars don't qualify!) There is a niche market for them . . . but they are not gonna work on California freeways that I drive on where if you do 55mph then you might as well put one of those slow-moving-vehicle triangles on the back of your car.

So . . . what are my options? Well, still pretty much zip . . nada . . nothing. A tiny number available (Tesla), some not so soon (Volt in late 2010). Please let me know what you think of these cars and if you know of any others.

In attempts to separate the wheat from the chaff, I've separated the cars into 'contenders' and 'longshots'. The contenders all face difficult hurdles but seem to have some real backing and a good chance. The 'longshots' are . . . well, longshots. The longshots have a lower probability of success and some of the longshots that do succeed will merely be niche vehicles sold in small volumes.

The Contenders:

The Tesla Motors roadster - The green super-sportscar
Status: Currently being made, the price was upped, and the chaotic company continues along

Range of 220 miles, top speed of 125 mph, and 0 to 60 in less than 4 seconds.
Production: Yes but just barely. Assembly line is up and running but still producing them slow. Over 500 built though! Waiting list is over a year. Currently just available in USA.
I like one, but one problem though . . . it costs over $100K Damn. OK, maybe in a few years.
http://www.teslamotors.com/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_motors
Tesla also has a $60,000 sports sedan in development.

Chevy Volt - The GM Apollo mission
Range 40 miles on electricity alone, the gas engine kicks in after that to keep charging the battery and give it a full range that is longer than most gasoline cars. Top speed supposedly 120 mph for limited duration.
Production: Originally slated for 2012, this car has been put on accelerated schedule for production by the end of 2010.
I'm very interested in this car . . . Some nationalism in me would make me proud to buy an American designed and built car that gets us off foreign oil. I'm strongly rooting for this one.
Here is a good article on the car that was in Atlantic monthly.
http://www.chevrolet.com/electriccar/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Volt
Great fan site: http://gm-volt.com/

Nissan - Leaf
Nissan finally unveiled their pure EV, the Leaf. A small four person hatchback that gets 100 mile range in a specific city cycle.

Aptera - The hyper-efficient car
Status: Company is alive and well but production was pushed back.
Specs are still a slightly moving target but top speed is going to be at least 85mph. Range of >100 miles on the electric-only version. Series hybrid version has a long range and gets over 130 miles per gallon when run with gas alone!
Production: First electric versions currently on schedule to ship in November 2009.. Hybrid version scheduled to start production about a year after that. A gas-only version is now in the works. Sales will be limited to California at first.
The Aptera has wild design that basically looks like a wingless private airplane. That design gives it the super-low drag coefficient making it the most efficient vehicle out there. They claim to have less drag than Lance Armstrong on a 10-speed bike. It has a tadpole 3-wheel design that means that it is not technically a car so it can drive in HOV lanes without even getting a sticker. A bit downside is that they are being fucked out of qualifying for the big $7500 tax rebate and the cash for clunker program. :-(

http://www.aptera.com/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aptera_Motors

Th!nk City and Th!nk Open (convertible) - Euro compact mini
Status: Company has come out of 'receivership' (Norwegian version of Chapter 11)! Assembly is moving to Valmet in Finland. They can move forward on opening a factory in the USA now.
Top speed 100km/h (~62mph), range 170 to 200 km for the current European model. Model planned for the USA is supposed to do 70mph.
Production: Limited quantities now, factory in Finland will be up & running before the end of the year (it is mostly just assembly not manufacture). Only available in Europe right now. USA production planned.
This is a real car but it is designed primarily as a city car (hence the name). However, it can go on the highway with no problems. Current Europe version goes 100km/hour (~62mph) but planned USA version will do 70mph. I'd buy the convertible if it were available today . . . but apparently it is just a concept car right now
Silicon Valley venture capital fund Kleiner Perkins has joined with them to start selling them in the USA in 2009.

http://www.think.no/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Think_Nordic


Fisker Karma - High-end Euro sports Sedan . . very sexy
Status: Has strong VC funding and moving along well.
Production: Scheduled to begin late 2009
50 mile range on electric-only with a gas motor after than. Top speed over 125mpg
It is a $80,000 plug-in hybrid sports sedan.

http://www.fiskerautomotive.com/vehicles/features/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fisker_Karma

The Coda - (formerly Miles XS500) - American designed but Chinese built sedan from
80+mph, 120 mile range
Production: " announced that it will be introducing an affordable, full performance all-electric sedan to the mainstream California market in 2010. "

http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/06/09/an-electric-car-with-chinese-roots/?ref=automobiles
http://www.codaautomotive.com/
There new logo looks like a combo of the Obama logo and the BMW logo . . . kinda clever.

Smart ForTwo EV - Electric version of the smart car mini
30kW, top speed of 70 mph, 0-30 mph in 6.5 seconds, and a range of up to 72 miles.
Production: Currently only a limited number of conversions have been done. However, a full production version for 2010 was recently announced.

Smart EV official page
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smart_EV

16) Mini-E - A limited quantity test version of an electric Mini-Cooper
Production: 500 being made & delivered to US market. Some people have received them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mini_E
The cool thing about this project is that these went to hardcore EV enthusiasts who were willing to pay the $850/month lease fee. That means there are lots of blogs about the Mini EV. Basically, the people that got the cars like them but there have been complaints about an over-aggressive regen braking system that kicks in way too hard and a slight delay before acceleration.

Mitsubishi iMiEV - First full electric car to enter real production by a major car company! Woo-hoo!
Production: Woo-hoo! Real production just got started. Of course it will only be for the Japanese market right now.

http://www.mitsubishi-motors.com/special/ev/
http://media.mitsubishi-motors.com/pressrelease/e/products/detail1940.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imiev

BYD - Chinese battery company enters the automotive market
Production: Being built for the Chinese market only right now.
Status: BYD made a huge splash when the world-famous Oracle of Omaha bought a 10% stake in BYD.
http://www.byd.com/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BYD_Auto

Subara Stella

Ford/Magna subcompact EV - Ford's pure EV entry
This is supposed to be a subcompact pure EV. A conversion mule was demonstrated at that the 2009 Detroit auto show using a Ford Focus body but it hasn't been confirmed that they will use that particular body in a final product.
Ford has basically contracted out their steps into the pure EV biz while focusing more on hybrids. The Ford Focus hybrid is indeed impressive.

Ford Panel Van - A Subcontracted out conversion vehicle.

Dodge Circuit EV -
Chrysler's initial move into the EV market is a sports car. A lower-priced Tesla clone. Not a bad idea. They say it is still planned but who knows if Chrysler will deliver. Looks cool.

The Longshots:

Loremo - Euro snazzy clown car
Status: Apparently still moving along but seems to be struggling a bit.
Top speed of 170 km/h (106 mph) and range of 95 miles for electric version at current specs.
Production: Diesel version production schedule for 2010, electric some time later.
Originally designed as a cheap efficient diesel car for the 3rd world, it is getting a electric version. May be kinda pricey and who knows if/when it makes it to the USA.

http://evolution.loremo.com/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loremo


Phoenix SUT & SUV - A real electric pick-up truck and SUV
Status: Entered Chapter 11 bankruptcy :-/ And that is on top of the fact that the Korean maker of the vehicle body/chassis also entered bankruptcy. Not looking real good here.
Range of up to 130 miles with 0 to 60 m.p.h. in 10 seconds.
Plans are already underway for an expansion pack which will extend this to 250 miles.
Production: Unknown

http://www.phoenixmotorcars.com/vehicles/phoenix-sut.php
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenix_Motorcars

Commuter Cars Tango - A weird combo of sports car performance & price with mini form factor
Production: Hand built by family team
Status: This is a pretty marginal entry at this point that will probably soon fade into the history books.
It's got the 0 to 60 in less than 4 seconds of a Tesla and a higher max speed of 150 MPH but it looks like a mini that was put into a vise and squeezed. $100K for that? I'll take the Tesla instead . . . George Clooney has both of them.

Persu (formerly VentureOne) - Is it a motorcycle or a car?
Production: I don't know.
Even if this succeeds, it will be a pretty niche vehicle.

A funky combo of motorcycle and car. It uses the delta 3-wheel design but allows leaning like a motorcycle to fix the stability of this notoriously unstable design.
http://www.flytheroad.com/

CityZenn - Low Speed Zenn Motors move into full-speed cars
Production: Still planned but no hard dates.
This is a longshot since Zenn is not well capitalized and hasn't passed crash tests. Basically, Zenn is a proxy for the eestor dreams. If eestor fails (which most assume it will), Zenn is pretty much just an NEV maker.
Not sure if this is the real design or just their current Zenn design as a placeholder:

These specs are more ambitious than the Volt . . . and likely to be pure fantasy.
The cityZENN is planned to be a fully certified, highway capable vehicle with a top speed of 125 KPH/ 80 MPH and a range or 400 kilometres/250 miles. Supposed to be powered by EEStor, but EEStor is kind of a vaporware joke in the industry. Hopes exist for EEStor but strong skepticism advised.
http://www.marketwire.com/press-release/Zenn-Motor-Company-TSX-VENTURE-ZNN-837653.html

Zap Alias - Another low-speed electric car company steps up.
100mph speed, 100 mile range . . . and HOLY BATMAN looks!
Production: Unknown . . . last I heard is that they plan to make hand-built version in limited quantites (Zap wel-klnown for not keeping its promises.)
Another tadpole 3-wheeler. I'm not sure if it is 2 passenger or 1 passenger.

http://www.zapworld.com/electric-vehicles/electric-cars/zap-alias
Zap is a running joke in the EV industry.

Green Vehicles TRIAC EV - A low-cost Tadpole
80 mph and 100 mph range for the low, low price of $19,995.00
Here is an old quote from when this thread was started:

Production: Supposedly delivery starts August 2008

Yeah . . . right. They still have not shipped any product. That is the EV biz. :-/
Kinda looks like a death trap . . . but it is somewhat cheap, does highway speeds, and has good range.

http://www.greenvehicles.com/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_vehicles (Wiki page needs work)

The Amp - A Saturn Sky converted to electric
90+ mph, 0 to 60 in 5.7 seconds, 150 mile range
Production: Limited quantities being produced. Future much in doubt due to sale of Saturn to Penske.
This is a conversion of a gas car from a bankrupt company. Not much future in that.
Price = $25K for Saturn Sky + $25K for conversion = $50K . . expensive but half the price of a Tesla

http://www.ampmotorworks.com/



These are new and will be filled out more later:


More to come . . .

 

[Funky Papa]

Apparently the new, real, body looks like . . . well . . . a Prius.

Not really. It has a lot of charisma, actually. Not that I expect GM to fulfill its word regarding its tech...

 

[bjork]

For me to go for an electric car, they'd have to do a trade-in incentive thing, like when you trade in a PS2 for credit towards a PS3. I couldn't afford to jump into a car payment all over again, since it'll be considerably more than my payment is now.

 

[speculawyer]

Not really. It has a lot of charism, actually. Not that I expect GM to fulfill its word regarding its tech...

That model in the picture has charisma . . . but that is not the new, real version.

 

[Karakand]

40 miles? :lol

Never change US auto industry.

 

[jey_16]

40 miles? :lol

Never change US auto industry.

The vehicle is designed to run purely on electricity from on-board batteries for up to 40 miles (64 km), or about half the range of the GM EV1 — a large enough distance to cover the daily commutes of most Americans, which is around 33 miles (53 km). With use of a small internal combustion engine driving a generator to resupply the batteries, the vehicle's range is potentially increased to 640 miles (1,030 km) on the highway.

source

looks really promising....its the only electric car i would even consider buying but hopefully it retains some style, thats the problem i have with all these hybrid/electric cars.....most of them look crap

 

[Wendo]

I'm glad to see that you didn't list any Zap! cars. That company is a joke.

 

[Ghost]

Yeah the volt sounds about perfect from a usability point of view, you can drastically reduce your fuel consumption but without any extra concern about running out of juice.

looks really promising....its the only electric car i would even consider buying but hopefully it retains some style, thats the problem i have with all these hybrid/electric cars.....most of them look crap

Yeah I think that's just something we're going to have to learn to live with

 

[Funky Papa]

That model in the picture has charisma . . . but that is not the new, real version.

But I am talking about the real version. So far GM is still testing the mules, but some people have seen the design sketches. The interior should be pretty cool too.

I'm glad to see that you didn't list any Zap! cars. That company is a joke.

Con artists seems like a better description. What a wonderful track record they have.

 

[Zaptruder]

What do you guys think about this one?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fisker_Karma

The Fisker Karma is a plug-in hybrid luxury sports car revealed on 14 January 2008 and manufactured by Fisker Automotive,[1] a joint venture of Quantum Technologies[2] and Fisker Coachbuild, LLC, announced September 5, 2007.[3] The Karma was introduced at the 2008 North American International Auto Show.

The PHEV-50 (50 mile all-electric range) is anticipated in late 2009 to sell for US$ 80,000.[4]

The Fisker Karma is the first vehicle released by the Fisker Automotive Company. The Karma features Q-Drive technology, powered by an innovative plug-in hybrid gasoline/electric motors. The vehicle can run up to 50 miles (80 km) solely on battery power when fully charged. After the charged batteries deplete, the Karma converts to its hybrid engines, constantly switching between gasoline and electric motors.

In addition to the advanced hybrid drive technology, a solar-paneled roof is optional. These solar cells collect energy to aide in cooling the vehicle’s lithium ion batteries as well as donate an extra boost to the Q-drive system. Although Fisker Automotive has yet to release solid statistics regarding Karma’s fuel economy, the company estimates the average driver will only have to refill the gas tank annually.

It features a 125 mph (201 km/h) top speed and is capable of reaching 60 mph (97 km/h) from a standstill in 5.8 seconds.

It's like the Chevy... except european... but otherwise better in every other way. Except maybe the price?

The Tesla still sounds like the winner though... for normal city driving that is.

 

[SyNapSe]

I think it's realistically going to be 2015 at least. The Volt seems like a nice first step, but.. it may slip to 2011 already. I try to keep to a rule to never purchase a vehicle in it's first year of release, let alone the first electric vehicle produced from a company. The first gen models are going to have problems.. almost for sure. The estimated price is $35k and the dealer markup is going to be out of this world for at least a year+

Gas would have to go incredibly high for that to outweigh buying the cheapest little car that gets around 40 mpg on the highway.

 

[Xun]

You guys do realize "gas" is about $12/gallon over in the UK right?

Stop your fucking complaining.

 

[Kabouter]

You guys do realize "gas" is about $12/gallon over in the UK right?

Except it's not if you use US gallons. And uh, if switching to an electric car pays off for them, why shouldn't they do it? Because it would be even more advantageous to Europeans? Seems like a weird reason.

 

[milanbaros]

Just reading about the Tesla, have they really shipped it with a transmission that will only last a few thousand miles?

 

[NofrikinfuN]

I was looking into the costs of trying an electric conversion on a junk car, but frankly with the state of battery technology right now it just wouldn't be worth doing. Even costly setups can add hundreds of pounds to the vehicle (Even after the removal of engines and exhaust systems) and still make pathetic mileage.

The sad truth is, the technology isn't advanced enough to be useful to everyone (I make a minimum 40-45 mile round trip daily, so the range on some cars would be a squeeze) and is cost prohibitive enough to negate any worries about gas in the forseeable future. Hopefully we will have fast-charging, high capacity batteries and a lot more nuclear facilities within the next decade or two.

 

[Funky Papa]

You guys do realize "gas" is about $12/gallon over in the UK right?

Stop your fucking complaining.

Even better: YOU shut the hell up before this thread implodes. This is an interesting topic.

 

[speculawyer]

What do you guys think about this one?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fisker_Karma

It's like the Chevy... except european... but otherwise better in every other way. Except maybe the price?

The Tesla still sounds like the winner though... for normal city driving that is.

Thanks . . . forgot about that one. I'll add it to the OP.

I think it is much closer to the Tesla than the Volt since it will also be very expensive. Tesla is working on a new lower priced sports sedan . . . it will still be very expensive though . . . over $50K.

 

[SteveMeister]

You guys do realize "gas" is about $12/gallon over in the UK right?

Stop your fucking complaining.

The UK and the US are different countries. There are a lot more people in the US, the country is significantly larger and consequently things are much more spread out, and most importantly, the US wasn't destroyed during WWII and subsequently rebuilt with the comprehensive mass transit systems found in most European countries. The US is built around everyone having cars -- except in urban centers, most people don't live, work or shop in the same place. Most goods in the US are transported by truck, rather than air or rail, and a good portion of the United States does not have easy access to ports. And finally, gas prices in the US have been ridiculously low for DECADES, and are only now starting to get to the point where they are having a real impact on individuals and businesses. To put it succinctly, higher gas prices have more of an impact in the US than they do in Europe.

Now, to the point of the thread. I really wish Aptera would sell their cars on the East Coast. I'd buy the series hybrid in a heartbeat.

 

[oneHeero]

You guys do realize "gas" is about $12/gallon over in the UK right?

Stop your fucking complaining.

Gaf never fails. Your such a retard.

Nice cars, would love to jump on board with them if we get a great price point.

 

[Davedough]

I know you're talking about Electrics, but why no mention about the Hydrogen offering by Honda? http://automobiles.honda.com/fcx-clarity/

Quite honestly, companies like Tesla and Hybrid Technologies should be commended for their work, but not their practices. The technology they employ is impressive, but does absolutely nothing for the greater good. Who can afford the 100K+ electric supercar? Fools that dont need to worry about $5/gallon.

Oil consumption as a whole needs to drop for the suppliers to lower the prices. Develop something that effects the entire market. Transportation of goods. 18 wheelers. Get hybrid and/or electric 18 wheelers on the roads. The current models which consume approximately 70% of all crude imported into the US outnumber everyday consumers on the road by a huge margin. Lower the consumption and the price will lower. Then, once our consumption is under control, research and implement viable alternative fuel means.

 

[Kabouter]

I know you're talking about Electrics, but why no mention about the Hydrogen offering by Honda? http://automobiles.honda.com/fcx-clarity/

Because hydrogen isn't going to have much of a future? There are far too many practical concerns.

 

[TrueReligion]

You guys do realize "gas" is about $12/gallon over in the UK right?

Stop your fucking complaining.

America, F YEAH. only country that matters, etc...

 

[Wraith]

Gaf never fails. Your such a retard.

Nice cars, would love to jump on board with them if we get a great price point.

:lol

 

[speculawyer]

I know you're talking about Electrics, but why no mention about the Hydrogen offering by Honda? http://automobiles.honda.com/fcx-clarity/ .

I'm a big critic of the Hydrogen stuff . . .
1) There are no hydrogen mines or wells. We have to create hydrogen somehow. The most efficient way is from natural gas . . . another fossil fuel with a rapidly increasing price. Other than that, we create it from electrcity. Well, why not cut out the middle-man and go straight to electric cars.
2) Even if we had the hydrogen, there is no hydrogen delivery infrastructure. I can find an electrical outlet just about every where I go.

Quite honestly, companies like Tesla and Hybrid Technologies should be commended for their work, but not their practices. The technology they employ is impressive, but does absolutely nothing for the greater good. Who can afford the 100K+ electric supercar? Fools that dont need to worry about $5/gallon.

The Tesla is clearly a niche product for rich people . . . but it serves a useful purpose in accelerating the development of battery technology & other crucial parts.

Did you look at the others on that list? The Th!nk, Aptera, Loremo, and Chevy Volt are all within the range for normal car prices.

Oil consumption as a whole needs to drop for the suppliers to lower the prices. Develop something that effects the entire market. Transportation of goods. 18 wheelers. Get hybrid and/or electric 18 wheelers on the roads.

Well . . . look at it this way . . . if lots of people start using electric cars then the price of oil will drop due to reduced demand, so the trucks & farm equipment can keep using gas/diesel. Of course, the problem with this is that people will go back to gas cars then too.

 

[sh4mike]

New Prius in Y2010 will match the Volt's specs -- standard 3-prong plug-in at home, 40 miles pure electric. Should cost the same as a Volt.

No contest on which I'll be buying. My 30 mile daily commute fits perfectly.

 

[pn18]

The Volt will cost 40k instead of the planned 30k. Bad news for the real mass-market.

 

[Davedough]

I'm a big critic of the Hydrogen stuff . . .
1) There are no hydrogen mines or wells. We have to create hydrogen somehow. The most efficient way is from natural gas . . . another fossil fuel with a rapidly increasing price. Other than that, we create it from electrcity. Well, why not cut out the middle-man and go straight to electric cars.
2) Even if we had the hydrogen, there is no hydrogen delivery infrastructure. I can find an electrical outlet just about every where I go.

That makes sense. I dont pretend to know much about this alternative, I was merely probing for answers. Thats a very valid point.

The Tesla is clearly a niche product for rich people . . . but it serves a useful purpose in accelerating the development of battery technology & other crucial parts.

Did you look at the others on that list? The Th!nk, Aptera, Loremo, and Chevy Volt are all within the range for normal car prices.

Yes, I did look at the others on the list and I respect Tesla and others for their ingenuity and forward thinking, but from a business standpoint, I think if they focused more to the likes of Th!nk et al, they'd garner more money than selling a few 100k supercars.

Well . . . look at it this way . . . if lots of people start using electric cars then the price of oil will drop due to reduced demand, so the trucks & farm equipment can keep using gas/diesel. Of course, the problem with this is that people will go back to gas cars then too.

Thats the biggest problem right there that I see in my own theory. Once given an easy opportunity, no one in our society today is disciplined enough to not just take the easy route, and we'd be back at square one.

 

[speculawyer]

New Prius in Y2010 will match the Volt's specs -- standard 3-prong plug-in at home, 40 miles pure electric. Should cost the same as a Volt.

No contest on which I'll be buying. My 30 mile daily commute fits perfectly.

I'm interested to learn more but details are slim. Specifically . . . what is the top speed of the upcoming prius in electric-mode only.

The current Prius can't go very fast w/o firing up the gas engine. (I had a Ford Explorer hybrid and it could only go like 5mph in electric only!) I love the concept of plug-in hybrids, but I want the car to have a commute range at full freeway speeds on electric-only.

 

[TransTrender]

The Volt will cost 40k instead of the planned 30k. Bad news for the real mass-market.

The Volt is such a joke. Every day it gets worse and worse for that car. The first problem was that commercial where they were lauding the Volt as the next best thing...with a 40 mile (BEST CASE) range on batteries (will degrade over time), and it's still uses gas (if it's just a 'generator' then they should use diesel), and the price is pretty LOL.

 

[speculawyer]

The Volt will cost 40k instead of the planned 30k. Bad news for the real mass-market.

Well . . . the article does hold out some hope . .

Bob Lutz revealed to the Seattle Times that the price point for his company's Chevy Volt series hybrid electric vehicle will be $40,000, or around $10,000 more than originally estimated. Lutz also told the paper that the first-generation of the Volt would generate no profit for General Motors. There's still hope for buyers who were hoping to snag a Volt closer to $30,000, as potential tax incentives on state and federal levels could trim the price substantially. Congress is currently considering proposed legislation for plug-in hybrid tax credits on the order of around $7,000. Still, there's no telling what demand there will be for the Volt, and if it's higher than the supply, we could see markups on GM's high-tech hybrid from dealers who are trying to survive this transition from a market dominated by profitable trucks and SUVs to smaller, fuel-efficient vehicles. According to Lutz, however, cars like the Volt are the way of the future, and GM's car czar expects that between 2020 and 2025 a quarter to a half of all vehicles sold will be either electric- or hydrogen-powered. We'd put our money on electric, as this country has not gotten serious yet about building a distribution network for hydrogen.

 

[prodystopian]

The Volt is such a joke. Every day it gets worse and worse for that car. The first problem was that commercial where they were lauding the Volt as the next best thing...with a 40 mile (BEST CASE) range on batteries (will degrade over time), and it's still uses gas (if it's just a 'generator' then they should use diesel), and the price is pretty LOL.

These are the important things that worry me about all of the plug in hybrids. My commute is about 35 miles and I don't trust a battery rated for 40 miles to be able to do that in 2 or 3 years, let alone 5.

 

[Tarazet]

Holy crap, this is the first I've heard of the Aptera. It looks marvelous, would be such a kick to own that thing.

 

[PrivateWHudson]

The Th!nk looks pretty neat. How much are they expected to cost when/if they come stateside? I'd probably be able to justify buying one for $10-$12 grand. My Elantra was $12K, so I figure it's a balancing act between lower fuel costs vs. having to upgrade my electric to get a sub box in the garage, having to plug in every night or risk losing power on my way to work, monthly payments again, and topping out at 62mph.

 

[Davedough]

one of the saddest things I read as of late is that the US government mandated that all cars produced for the US by 2020 must meet at the minimum of 35mpg.... 2020... thats 12 years from now. I understand research and development time, but seriously? I've got a friend who drives a 1962 VW. Its modified and can beat most average cars in a dead race and STILL gets 38mpg on average. The car is 46 years old. If we could do it then, why cant we do it now? I understand the inclusion of smog and emission controls, but did we really sacrifice THAT much by adding some O2 sensors?

 

[Jill Sandwich]

How about the Ariel Atom-based Wrightspeed X1?
http://www.wrightspeed.com/x1.html

Sexy, fast. AND electric!

 

[knitoe]

Have a question. All these claims about X miles. Are they highway or city rated? Do that include using AC / heat and so on into these figures?

 

[Amon37]

My commute is 9 miles each way so with 40 completely electric that would work for me.

P.S. OP under the Tesla you link the wiki for the Volt.

 

[PrivateWHudson]

Have a question. All these claims about X miles. Are they highway or city rated? Do that include using AC / heat and so on into these figures?

Don't forget, with electric cars, you'll reduce you're range/mileage with headlights, charging your ipod, listening to the radio, rolling your windows up and down ect.

 

[pn18]

Have a question. All these claims about X miles. Are they highway or city rated? Do that include using AC / heat and so on into these figures?

Highway rated and they usually do not include any other use of electricity.

 

[Kabouter]

Don't forget, with electric cars, you'll reduce you're range/mileage with headlights, charging your ipod, listening to the radio, rolling your windows up and down ect.

Whereas regular cars just create energy for that out of thin air.

 

[haunts]

any pix of the new volt design? btw $40k for the car seems to defeat the purpose in that the ppl who need something like that most cant afford it.

 

[Dark Octave]

What do you guys think about this one?

A four door exotic sports car. I've seen it all now.

 

[SteveMeister]

To the OP, you should add the VentureOne to your list.

 

[PrivateWHudson]

Whereas regular cars just create energy for that out of thin air.

Um...yeah, kind of. The alternator is spinning whenever the engine is running and in generating plenty of electricity whether you are using it or not. I'm sure how much the drag affects you're mileage but it can't be more than a tiny fraction of your gas mileage, So for the most part it's free. Same goes with heat. It happens to be a byproduct of a combustion engine.

I'll bet running the heat, defroster, headlights and radio on a cold dark morning in the winter you'll see much less range than noon in the late spring. I'm not saying that gasoline engines are more efficient, but if you have a 40 mile round trip to work and back, and the range is 50-60 miles on electric only, you may be cutting it a lot closer than you realize.

 

[LuCkymoON]

We need a better way to store energy.
Why not use nuclear power to generate Hydrogen for storage in fuel cells?

 

[speculawyer]

The Volt is such a joke. Every day it gets worse and worse for that car. The first problem was that commercial where they were lauding the Volt as the next best thing...with a 40 mile (BEST CASE) range on batteries (will degrade over time), and it's still uses gas (if it's just a 'generator' then they should use diesel), and the price is pretty LOL.

I don't think you get the concept. Most people really don't very far with their cars . . . to work and back home, to school and back home, to the grocery store and back home. As long as your commute distance is less than 20 miles (which is 3/4s of most Americans), you can drive to work and back home (where you plug it back in) without burning a single drop of gas. You can conceivably go weeks, months . . . even years without adding gas to you car. They've actually had to worry about what would happen if people don't burn through their gas at all such that it goes stale (good stuff evaporating and water condensing in the tank).

The engine could be diesel if they so choose . . . or E85 or gas.

The price increase is certainly not desirable but the only way to get the price down is to start making these things. Once Li-Ion batteries go into massive production, perhaps the price will drop . . . new manufacturing breakthroughs may happen, new cheaper designs may emerge. You gotta start somewhere.

I'd like the range to hit 50 miles.

I'd like to see something in between the Volt and the Aptera . . . Something with the Aptera monocoque design with super-low drag coefficient but a little more like a normal car with four wheels. And a roof-top solar panel should be on all such cars . . . they make such great sense if only for AC alone . . . you'll get the most power from the solar panel at the time you need it most . . . when the sun is beating down and making the car too hot.

 

[speculawyer]

Don't forget, with electric cars, you'll reduce you're range/mileage with headlights, charging your ipod, listening to the radio, rolling your windows up and down ect.

With LED lighting, the lighting costs are reduced a lot. But yeah, every electric device sucks power away from the engine. This is one of the problems with the Volt rush to 2010 . . . they don't have time to create lots of low-power wipers, radios, etc. So things will improve in subsequent models. Fortunately, the computer industry has been working on creating low-power CPUs, memories, and displays for notebook computers so at least things that need those kind of components wil be efficient.

Also, slapping a solar panel on the roof can supply all the power you need for all those things during the daytime (and charge the batteries if the car is parked).

 

[PrivateWHudson]

...

I'd like to see something in between the Volt and the Aptera . . . Something with the Aptera monocoque design with super-low drag coefficient but a little more like a normal car with four wheels. And a roof-top solar panel should be on all such cars . . . they make such great sense if only for AC alone . . . you'll get the most power from the solar panel at the time you need it most . . . when the sun is beating down and making the car too hot.

That's probably the most sense I've seen someone make.

 

[Sol..]

Fuck man.. i hate the auto industry.


They can do much better than that shit. Much better.

 

[speculawyer]

Um...yeah, kind of. The alternator is spinning whenever the engine is running and in generating plenty of electricity whether you are using it or not. I'm sure how much the drag affects you're mileage but it can't be more than a tiny fraction of your gas mileage, So for the most part it's free. Same goes with heat. It happens to be a byproduct of a combustion engine.

It is also 'free'(=wasted) when not needed and not used. This is why the well-to-wheel efficiency of electrics is much better than gas cars. There is very little power wasted in an electric car. If you manage to drive drive your Volt on battery-only power all year long, it only costs about $1/day to charge up.

If you drive 40 miles per day, five times per week (work week), 52 weeks a year, that is 10,400 miles per year. If you car gets 30 mpg (a respectable number) and you pay $5/gallon (which you will in a couple years most likely), than is $1733 per year in gas. So, you could save $1400 in gas alone each year . . . it won't take too long to make up that increased cost of the car. 7 years if it is a $10,000 premium. But then again, electricity prices will go up too but not as fast since they are based more on coal which is in great supply (although prices have gone up a lot due to the cost of gas-powered equipment used to dig it up & transport it). There are other savings in electric vehicles too since they have far fewer moving parts and thus require less maintenance & repairs.

I'll bet running the heat, defroster, headlights and radio on a cold dark morning in the winter you'll see much less range than noon in the late spring. I'm not saying that gasoline engines are more efficient, but if you have a 40 mile round trip to work and back, and the range is 50-60 miles on electric only, you may be cutting it a lot closer than you realize.

And so the gas motor kicks in and fires up for a few minutes .. . so what? But the point is definitely valid on pure electrics . . . hence the Tesla having a massive battery pack and the Aptera being super-efficient. The Th!nk electric could have this problem though.