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[BreezyLimbo]

I think you're misunderstanding what "sex sells" means.

Right, 'sex sells' doesn't just mean half naked/sexualized women. Nathan Drake is a perfect man physically. Lara Croft is a perfect lady, physically. Games like Final Fantasy rely on physically perfect protagonists that are extremely attractive.

If you made the next lara croft or the next nathan drake the ugliest they could possibly be, it probably wouldn't sell as much. 'Sex Sells' simply means that a product is more likely to sell because it displays ideal conditions for the person buying it.

Like...let's look at beer commercials. A commercial that portrays the person that drinks the beer in a party is more likely to interest than a commercial that just shows a beer sitting in a fridge. Unless that fridge is at a party!

 

[mdubs]

I didn't know people actually took that meme seriously.

Fire Emblem Awakening sold well because it improved the presentation, shook up the artstyle, had a great and memorable cast of characters, introduced quality of life features for people who are not good at videogames, and added interesting mechanics to the gameplay as well as a customizable avatar. It also received more marketing than any other entry in recent memory.

This is the main heroine and BY FAR the most popular character from the game.

No part of that design is sexualized.

I'd amend that statement to say that the pairing up elements are one of the things that helped it sell. That and as you said, casual mode, but one of the recurring complaints was the map design was not good and neither was the story relative to other games in the series (ie. in my view, the Radiant games). So I wouldn't say that the waifus are what sold it, but rather the romantic part

That said, I agree that Lucina is a fantastic design and a favourite of many for good reason.

 

[plasmawave]

I don't really understand, given that the internet exists and, er, risqué content is hardly difficult to find, who would buy a videogame for the sex?

Why watch TV or movies or books that have risque stuff because of the internet?

 

[tsundoku]

Hmm, I'm curious as to how NieR: Automata is doing compared to the original. I don't really look into sales or pay them much mind, but in the first game you play as Gary Busey in BDSM barbarian garb. In Automata you play as an android woman whose skirt does not even attempt to try to hiding the wedgie she's sporting between her huge ass. I would not be surprised if the latter has picked up more of a following than the former.

Canonically in NieR you play as a character way closer in age/appearance to the other protagonist in NieR Automata. In English we only got the weird xbox variant / modelswap that looks like a reanimated zombie grandpa. It makes the character's romance with Kaine a little weird but also significantly less Japanese-Onee-Chan uncomfortable for americans.

Kaine in NieR is significantly less dressed than 2B and has story/plot reasons for being so similar to Quiet. Its a reasonable enough explanation and it doesn't really creep me out as a gay dude but I don't know if I can accurately make that value judgement. I just think it should be mentioned that 2B is in no way the most underdressed protagonist in that series.

Isn't the horrible rapist girl you fight first in Drakengard 3 also similarly underdressed? It's basically par for the Yoko Taro course.

 

[Mesoian]

I don't really understand, given that the internet exists and, er, risqué content is hardly difficult to find, who would buy a videogame for the sex?

Everyone's got their kinks, and said kinks in an interactive medium don't exist in too many places.

 

[Lord of Ostia]

Automata's first week sales in Japan were higher than Nier's lifetime sales there.

Nier also didn't have the old ugly grizzled protagonist in Japan, so that comparison is off from the get go. Automata sold more because it had a better marketing push and the gameplay quality is way higher than the original.

 

[Brian_FETO]

The comparison with Horizon seems a bit disingenuous. Aloy is rad, but Horizon is also a next gen open world console exclusive with all of the graphics, and also just a rad game in itself. Despite not being a sex object she's still an attractive female character.

Quiet is an extreme example. I find her design offputting and trashy. That said there's ways to do "sexy" clothes in a more stylish way than just "fuck it idk shes wearing underwear whatever, let me show you with the camera"

If the argument is "hypersexualization doesn't sell" then I could see that but if you're looking at sex appeal in a broad way, just having attractive characters plays into that.

Sex can literally sell some franchises like the previously mentioned DOA and Senran Kagura for some people but those are obviously niche because of it. Overwatch is obviously a very good game but they lean heavily into waifu bullshit and the fanbase's obsession with shipping reflects it. Gotta sell those loot boxes somehow.

 

[Crossing Eden]

"Sex sells" isn't just about overtly sexualized characters. Pretty much all games have characters that are made to appear attractive. It's not that they make characters sexualized because sex sells. You rarely see ugly characters because sex sells. There's a reason why characters like Laura Croft and Nathan Drake look the way they do. It's because sex sells. And selling with sex appeal isn't just literally selling sex.

While we're here, I actually wanna address this notion. There's this thing called heroic idealism, in the context of video games characters are rarely fully unattractive, but rather they're ideals, characters are typically in shape, have great figures, and accomplish amazing feats. The character in a game is typically meant to be a self insert for a player. In this sense the player is meant to want to be Nathan Drake, thus he's not ugly, on the same cloth, he's not sexualized either as that would likely interfere with the self insertion. As we know, game devs go to absurd lengths to desexualize male characters in games.

For women, I imagine this is what the equivalent of male character heroic idealism looks like:

This characters are all attractive in their own right, but they aren't sexualized to any degree, and thus, aren't off-putting for the audience.

you're ignoring the part that the main cast of FFXV are all very handsome men and pretty boys. That involves sex as well.

Read the above. Just being attractive is not an indication of "sex selling." Heroic idealism is different from sexualization like in the OP.

 

[meltingparappa]

Automata's first week sales in Japan were higher than Nier's lifetime sales there.

It's also worth noting that Nier's fanbase in Japan heavily skews towards women.

A trend continuing with Automata if all the 9S precious soft boy fanart is any indication.

 

[Dio]

I don't really understand, given that the internet exists and, er, risqué content is hardly difficult to find, who would buy a videogame for the sex?

Well, Cloud Meadow lets you play as a woman and fuck a centaur and that, among other monsters you can have sex with playing as both genders, is the entire reason why it's getting 12,000 dollars a month for development.

https://www.patreon.com/CloudMeadow

Some people like playing a game that integrates sex and sexuality with management or narrative or combat. Thus, the popularity of games like Trials in Tainted Space, Corruption of Champions, Princess Trainer, and a shitload of Japanese platformers and RPG maker games like Inma no Ken (side scrolling fighter with sex) and Violated Heroine.

 

[kuroshiki]

It's also worth noting that Nier's fanbase in Japan heavily skews towards women.

A trend continuing with Automata if all the 9S precious soft boy fanart is any indication.

I have no idea what you talking about. Original nier barely had any fanbase and definitely not toward women at all.

If you are inclined to see fanart for Nier Automata, 2B art outnumber 9S to like 20 to 1 ratio.

 

[Opa-Pa]

Yeah that argument is so lazy and tired, it's also a typical "trump card" of sorts that a specific subset of people tend to use disingenuously to kill debate every time.

Personally I think sex can indeed sell in specific contexts... But so can literally anything out there. People use "sex sells" to imply that the appeal of sex sells far more than other elements, and yet the very examples people are using in this thread to prove that it sells are actually niche games that, yes, have their audiences, but don't exactly sell gangbusters.

If sex truly was this ever effective weapon to sell games then Senran Kagura would be among the best selling franchises in the medium.

 

[Mesoian]

Well, Cloud Meadow lets you play as a woman and fuck a centaur and that, among other monsters you can have sex with playing as both genders, is the entire reason why it's getting 12,000 dollars a month for development.

https://www.patreon.com/CloudMeadow

Some people like playing a game that integrates sex and sexuality with management or narrative or combat. Thus, the popularity of games like Trials in Tainted Space, Corruption of Champions, Princess Trainer, and a shitload of Japanese platformers and RPG maker games like Inma no Ken (side scrolling fighter with sex) and Violated Heroine.

The biggest problem with those being that most of those games are TURRRIBLE.

If sex truly was this magical bullet of gaming economy then Senran Kagura would be among the best selling franchises in the medium.

I mean, I get why you would say that, but have you SEEN Senran Kagura?

I mean really SEEN it?

That game does not do sexy very well at all. Part of me thinks the developers understand that and at least half of how that game looks is just parody. Even when you take Waifu sensibilities into things...most of those girls are just...bleh.

 

[Giever]

I don't really understand, given that the internet exists and, er, risqué content is hardly difficult to find, who would buy a videogame for the sex?

Not everyone masturbates before making a purchase, and horny doesn't exactly think straight.

Also sometimes people want different things, like just kind of soft-core fanservice-y type stuff sprinkled in a game they can enjoy rather than just turning to straight up porn.

 

[Astral Dog]

Attractive characters sell. Not sexualized

 

[BreezyLimbo]

While we're here, I actually wanna address this notion. There's this thing called heroic idealism, in the context of video games characters are rarely fully unattractive, but rather they're ideals, characters are typically in shape, have great figures, and accomplish amazing feats. The character in a game is typically meant to be a self insert for a player. In this sense the player is meant to want to be Nathan Drake, thus he's not ugly, on the same cloth, he's not sexualized either as that would likely interfere with the self insertion. As we know, game devs go to absurd lengths to desexualize male characters in games.

For women, I imagine this is what the equivalent of male character heroic idealism looks like:


This characters are all attractive in their own right, but they aren't sexualized to any degree, and thus, aren't off-putting for the audience.

Actually

That example of Batman is bad. There are people that find overtly buffed men sexy. Saying it 'desexualizes' male characters is well..putting your own beliefs of what a sexualized male is? Arnold Schwarzenegger in Commando, half naked, firing a machine gun, bearing his muscles is sexualized. For men, he is the ideal-To be strong, to get the girl, to be badass.

Also I don't know who that edgelord in that last picture is, but I bet that game was a flop. Maybe. That's a main character? Also Faith's game flopped too. Maybe it was open world fatigue at that point.

Either way, saying something is just 'heroic idealism' is simply looking at one part of the picture. It's a multitude of things that sell a game- sex and heroic idealism aren't exclusive to each other. They're intertwined.

 

[nkarafo]

It does sell. It will always sell.

And that's unfortunate to me. Because most of the time, the inclusion of sex appeal is as immature as it can be. Other times its garish and distracting. Nothing makes me cringe more than shit like Metal Gear Solid 5 or those "boob bouncing" mechanics that other games tried to sell as a feature.

 

[Dio]

The biggest problem with those being that most of those games are TURRRIBLE.

True, but it could be said that's because historically they're operating on such a tiny budget, normally.

Cloud Meadow, aesthetically, is fucking incredible animation and sprite wise, but since it's way early alpha I wouldn't say it's worth critiquing as a game yet.

As for Inma no Ken, it's not terrible. It's actually fun. It's like playing a regular old Streets of Rage style side scroller but with hadokens and some Street Fighter esque moves, but you can get your insides crushed by a giant penis after losing your clothes fighting.

I will agree that most porn games aren't good as games - but then again...doesn't that go for all videogames, really?

 

[plasmawave]

Attractive characters sell. Not sexualized

Attractive characters = sex appeal.

 

[PixelatedBookake]

Aren't characters like Cindy and Quiet created in Japan so they are able to advertise things related to the game? Like, they might have Quiet cosplayers at events for the game or real life ads for Final Fantasy-themed Elixir beer with Cindy holding one or whatever

 

[-COOLIO-]

the sexualization of just one sex is a problem. because it does sort of imply that one sex is meant for sex and the other is meant for a greater variety of things, like to be the hero that saves the day, or the intellect, or the funny guy, or whatever. but i still feel like the best solution for this problem is to more often sexualize both sexes rather than removing sexualization from games entirely, and to give women in games more roles than just being objects of sexual desire. which i do think games are becoming much better at.

one thing i really like the the lil mix music videos is because of how much they sexualize the guys as well as themselves. it's just sexy sexiness coming out of every orifice that can appeal to people of any sexual orientation:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBAfejjUQoA

this one even has dudes on a leash, which i think is pretty awesome. because it flips the script and objectifies the guys are hard, which is totally okay. objectification can be hot and desired by even by the objectified.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kjpa0SMOug0

basically, and in a very loose sense, we need more games like these lil mix music videos.

 

[sirap]

Everyone's got their kinks, and said kinks in an interactive medium don't exist in too many places.

Yuuup.

Indie developers are making a killing on Patreon making 18+ Visual Novels.

Hell, I made my first million writing sex. My mailing list CTR jumped from 30% to 60% when I promised a sex-filled epilogue as a freebie for signing up. It's not just men that eat this up, 2/3 of my readership are women.

Sex sells.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

Attractive characters = sex appeal.

That's what seems to be missing for some people.

Attractive characters are intertwined with sex appeal. Whether it's a rugged appearance or a slender body. Arnold and Sylvester didn't appeal because they were ugly twigs, they appealed because they had the chiseled features of a greek god. And that is sexual in the same way it's attractive.

And laying the topic to be slanted towards women-IE this topic is based off using only female examples and talking about females-is a disingenuous way to start off the thread when the majority of games feature rugged handsome men who are just the most perfect suave smooth talkers. "Sex Sells' Applies to both sexes. The male characters suffer from it because they become the ideal and the unreachable. Women suffer from it because they become the eye candy and the unreachable.(Face it, most men aren't going to marry women with perfect bodies or features.).

Both sides of this are toxic, but to focus on one side is to simply let the other side grow in its toxicity.

 

[SomeRandomAnon]

I don't really understand, given that the internet exists and, er, risqué content is hardly difficult to find, who would buy a videogame for the sex?

From my point of view, people don't buy videogames for the sex in the videogames, with the exception of few franchises.

People do buy, or consume enough media about it anyway, for the sex around the videogames.

For example, Overwach.

Do i think people bought Overwatch solely for the huge amounts of porn being produced involving the characters? No.
Do i think it helped popularize the characters enough to help push the game higher in the eschelons of the gaming zeitgeist? probably

 

[Korigama]

Eh, I personally never liked 3d fighters so that's more my opinion than objective fact. Blazblue/Guilty Gear are more my speed tbh.

Oh man Guilty Gear IS 3d now, isn't it? Well, it's on a 2d plane..

Typically I lean more toward 2D fighters myself (BlazBlue and Guilty Gear included), but DoA5 has been one of the few 3D fighters I've been able to get into, thanks in large part to the tutorials and overall learning curve. Though I also like Tekken for instance, I see it as far less approachable, having found it much more difficult to make any real progress by comparison.

While graphically GG is 3D now, the gameplay is indeed still 2D (Ramlethal being pretty much the only Xrd character skewing closer to a 3D fighting game character).

 

[Neptonic]

Waifu culture says otherwise

 

[Pantz]

Well it sure does work for me. I'll buy games with sexy female characters no matter how bad they are. I like them a lot and have no problems objectifying a sexy digital character. I hope developers keep making games like this.

 

[cryptosporidium]

I played FE:A for the Waifus

FE POR did not retain the same attention and is now probably never going to be finished.





also Rainbow Mika is sick, those lats n obliques yo

 

[three_muffins]

This is the main heroine and BY FAR the most popular character from the game.

No part of that design is sexualized.

There is a really sexualized picture of her injured in Fire Emblem Heroes. Shot of her butt included.

There are a lot of pictures of sexualized heroines in that game. Sadly I'm on my phone and can't post pictures.

 

[Opa-Pa]

Yuuup.

Indie developers are making a killing on Patreon making 18+ Visual Novels.

Hell, I made my first million writing sex. My mailing list CTR jumped from 30% to 60% when I promised a sex-filled epilogue as a freebie for signing up. It's not just men that eat this up, 2/3 of my readership are women.

Sex sells.

But that's the thing. All this proves is that sex has a market, not that adding sex to otherwise "normal" games will automatically boost sales in a significant way.

There's an audience that wants 18+ Visual Novels, that much is clear. But there's an audience that consistently buys Farming Simulator games too, and you don't see people saying Farming sells lol.

 

[Aarglefarg]

Attractive characters sell. Not sexualized

I bought DmC in part because of Dante's sexualisation, beyond being attractive. That was before I found out about the homophobic presentation slide, when I thought it looked like he was marketed in part towards a queer male audience. But the unusualness of a sexualised man in games would have played a part in it being an exception.

 

[Dio]

But that's the thing. All this proves is that sex has a market, not that adding sex to otherwise "normal" games will automatically boost sales in a significant way.

Well, literally no one would have bought Haydee if it didn't have a thick robot with giant boobs and a butt.

 

[-COOLIO-]

This characters are all attractive in their own right, but they aren't sexualized to any degree, and thus, aren't off-putting for the audience.


Read the above. Just being attractive is not an indication of "sex selling." Heroic idealism is different from sexualization like in the OP.

I would argue they're all sexualized to a degree, at least. and i would include nathan drake under that. the whole concept of heroism is deeply sexual in it's own right.

 

[JordanN]

There's an argument that sex sells only disproportionately targets one gender.

You can, design a female character and market them. But you can also do the same with a male character. But we don't see the latter happening in mainstream cases.

Which is ironic, since companies are all about money, why not profit off both genders?

 

[Screaming Meat]

Automata's first week sales in Japan were higher than Nier's lifetime sales there.

Bigger marketing budget.

 

[Crossing Eden]

Actually

That example of Batman is bad. There are people that find overtly buffed men sexy. Saying it 'desexualizes' male characters is well..putting your own beliefs of what a sexualized male is? Arnold Schwarzenegger in Commando, half naked, firing a machine gun, bearing his muscles is sexualized. For men, he is the ideal-To be strong, to get the girl, to be badass.

The Batman example is valid because in the dlc somehow Batgirl's cape has physics much more vulnerable to wind so you can see her ass. There are people who find overly buffed men sexy but intent matters, for instance, a lot of devs do stuff like shirtless scenes because they find it cool not because they're thinking about women while designing characters. The perfect example being that Capcom was completely surprised by the reaction to Ryu shirtless with a beard as they didn't intend for him to be seen as Hot Ryu but rather battle damaged Ryu. To put it bluntly, there's a difference between this:

and this:

Also I don't know who that edgelord in that last picture is, but I bet that game was a flop.

An unreleased game that only needs to sell 200K is a flop?

Spoiler

LOL

Maybe. That's a main character? Also Faith's game flopped too. Maybe it was open world fatigue at that point.

Barely had a marketing budget, you're missing the point.

Either way, saying something is just 'heroic idealism' is simply looking at one part of the picture. It's a multitude of things that sell a game- sex and heroic idealism aren't exclusive to each other. They're intertwined.

Except that Nathan Drake isn't designed for the gaze of women. Intent, it matters.

 

[Laiza]

This thread is not complete without mentioning the fact that the top-selling video games of all time are largely either Call of Duty games or Nintendo games.

Speaks for itself, really.

This is the main heroine and BY FAR the most popular character from the game.

No part of that design is sexualized.

Gawd, I love Lucina. One of the happiest accidents of the entire franchise, really. I will forever be tickled by the fact that she gets top billing from the fan base.

 

[SomeRandomAnon]

Gief was a huge bara/bear icon so there is that going for him.

 

[Crocodile]

I feel this is a complicated and nuanced subject that people on both sides are too keen to define as simple and solved. Putting aside the definition of "sex" seems unclear and variable in this context, I think you can make an argument that it does and doesn't sell depending on context. Using "sex sells" as a mic drop to deflect criticism is stupid. On the flip side, decrying all "sexy" designs as inherently off-putting or audience restricting doesn't seem accurate. 2B from Nier is a recent example and I find it hard to envision a scenario in which her design wasn't a boon to that game.This is of course putting aside any aesthetic decisions made not because of marketing concerns but because that's actually what the creators wanted to do and they weren't going to do something different if left to their own devices.

 

[RM8]

It's not that there's no market for sex as everyone knows, but "just add sex" doesn't necessarily translate into sales. The truth is, the best selling games across all platforms are for the most part lacking in sexual pandering, and underage anime boob upskirt is actually extremely niche.

More sex didn't push Street Fighter V beyond IV, and less sex didn't prevent Mortal Kombat X from outselling 9. Games that don't revolve around sex concept-wise don't gain anything from shoehorned pandering.

 

[TheRedSnifit]

There is a really sexualized picture of her injured in Fire Emblem Heroes. Shot of her butt included.

There are a lot of pictures of sexualized heroines in that game. Sadly I'm on my phone and can't post pictures.

I mean, basically everybody's injured picture has them half naked in that game. That one dude with the mask basically loses all his clothes.

 

[-COOLIO-]

Except that Nathan Drake isn't designed for the gaze of women.

While this is almost certainly true, i have a hard time figuring out how he could have been made more attractive to women.

would lingering shots on his ass actual appeal to female players? honest question.

 

[Vipu]

I wonder does anyone buy these games for gameplay or story.

 

[MCD]

Almost all women in Overwatch are designed for sex appeal.

Sex sells.

 

[KillLaCam]

Bad game is bad. Kinda crazy that the the main DoA games aren't as ridiculous as they get.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

The Batman example is valid because in the dlc somehow Batgirl's cape has physics much more vulnerable to wind so you can see her ass.

That makes sense in a sardonic way. After all when a man thinks of the attractive features of a women, it's usually face/bosom/buttox in no order. Not saying I agree with what they did.

There are people who find overly buffed men sexy but intent matters, for instance, a lot of devs do stuff like shirtless scenes because they find it cool not because they're thinking about women while designing characters. The perfect example being that Capcom was completely surprised by the reaction to Ryu shirtless with a beard as they didn't intend for him to be seen as Hot Ryu but rather battle damaged Ryu. To put it bluntly, there's a difference between this:

I mean, if a director or producer adds in a shirtless scene, it's not because they're thinking 'man that's cool!', because it's not. Have you been shirtless in the middle of a warzone. Not fun. There are sexual undertones to it. That is what a man wants to be. A muscular mass that can take off his shirt and be gazed at.

An unreleased game that only needs to sell 200K is a flop?

Spoiler

LOL

Never heard of it. Looks edgy. Would not buy.

Barely had a marketing budget, you're missing the point.

*Shrug* just making a statement.

Except that Nathan Drake isn't designed for the gaze of women.

you're right he's designed to be the physical and social ideal of a man. "A handsome rugged man who always has the right quips said at the right time while being a badass." That is sexual.

 

[Jharp]

Not really. There is very little evidence that FFXV moved more copies because Cindy is dressed in that ridiculous getup.

This seems like a pretty absurd assumption. How can you possibly know this? You're starting at a faulty premise by assuming that anyone would buy the game simply because of the character, when in reality, it's more likely that someone flipping through a Game Informer or Famitsu that typically wouldn't care about another crop of JRPG stereotypes fighting monsters sees some cleavage and stops. Boom, there's the interest. That's all it has to be. They're not trying to get sales for tits, they're trying to get interest and eyeballs by being a bit sexy. Maybe fifteen year old Tommy in Everytown, USA thinks Final Fantasy is dumb because his older brother played Final Fantasy VIII and said it sucked, so normally Tommy wouldn't bother with a Final Fantasy game. But reading IGN one day he sees Cindy and starts reading about the game because boobs. He thinks the game sounds cool and way different than his unfair bias based on someone else's opinion led him to believe.

Plus, Japanese people, games, and audiences seem to care way less about scantily clad female characters than Americans. At some point, you kind of just have to deal with it. They don't care as much as you do, and their games are selling just fine. Get over it.

 

[SomeRandomAnon]

This thread is not complete without mentioning the fact that the top-selling video games of all time are largely either Call of Duty games or Nintendo games.

Speaks for itself, really.


Gawd, I love Lucina. One of the happiest accidents of the entire franchise, really. I will forever be tickled by the fact that she gets top billing from the fan base.

Minecraft, the second most popular game in the world, is the most popular game porn searched on Pornhub though.

I don't know why, but do not underestimate people drive to have a wank

 

[Gaminar]

Could I ask a very simple question from GAF.
Are we going with the west's idea of sexualization?

 

[Mesoian]

I wonder does anyone buy these games for gameplay or story.

I said it before and I'll say it again, anyone who bought this game wasted their money. It's not fun to play, it's not fun to watch, it runs poorly; it's the counter argument for titillation in games because it's titillation without context or meaning, the things that games should generally be all about.

There was a time where DOAX was at least a good volleyball game. Now it's just a shitty product, top to bottom.