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[Crossing Eden]

While this is almost certainly true, i have a hard time figuring out how he could have been made more attractive to women.

would lingering shots on his ass actual appeal to female players? honest question.

Imagine if instead of UC4 beginning with him scuba diving it instead began with a scene of him being called by Elena and subsequently introduced like this:

or if the couch scene instead was shot like this:

instead of this:

or if he decided his shirt was too wet on the island due to the rain and deemed it better to continue his adventure shirtless and his model looked like this:

 

[depths20XX]

The argument that sex doesn't sell is way more "inherently flawed" than the argument that it does. It has been proven time and time again through history that it does. You can argue on its influence or how it fits the work it appears in, but you can't deny the fact.

 

[Crossing Eden]

That makes sense in a sardonic way. After all when a man thinks of the attractive features of a women, it's usually face/bosom/buttox in no order. Not saying I agree with what they did.



I mean, if a director or producer adds in a shirtless scene, it's not because they're thinking 'man that's cool!', because it's not. Have you been shirtless in the middle of a warzone. Not fun. There are sexual undertones to it. That is what a man wants to be. A muscular mass that can take off his shirt and be gazed at.

No I haven't but I haven't been in a fighting context.

Never heard of it. Looks edgy. Would not buy.

If you think it looks edgy you haven't been paying attention at all to what that game is trying to do, as it's certainly very far from edgy.

*Shrug* just making a statement.



you're right he's designed to be the physical and social ideal of a man. "A handsome rugged man who always has the right quips said at the right time while being a badass." That is sexual.

It's idealized, but not sexual. The male player isn't meant to fuck Nathan Drake and he was designed to be an ideal for the "every man," not because "man women must find these very specific things attractive"

 

[-COOLIO-]

Imagine if instead of UC4 beginning with him scuba diving it instead began with a scene of him being called by Elena and subsequently introduced like this:

or if the couch scene instead was shot like this:


instead of this:

fair enough, then by all means we should see more of that in games.

edit: now that i think about it. hollywood is much better about the dualism of sexuality than the videogame industry. and the latter could learn form the former.

i mean, i know a ton of girls that swooned for the captain america helicopter bicep scene in civil war.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

Imagine if instead of UC4 beginning with him scuba diving it instead began with a scene of him being called by Elena and subsequently introduced like this:

or if the couch scene instead was shot like this:


instead of this:

If I was a woman all 3 of those scenes would appeal to me.

Rugged man, Rugged man who looks back, Rugged man who knows how to caress me. Hell, I'm sure there are men who wish they could caress a woman like he does in that last picture.

All those pictures are sexy.

No I haven't but I haven't been in a fighting context.

It sucks, I would imagine.

If you think it looks edgy you haven't been paying attention at all to what that game is trying to do, as it's certainly very far from edgy.

*Shrug* opinions.

It's idealized, but not sexual. The male player isn't meant to fuck Nathan Drake and he was designed to be an ideal for the "every man," not because "man women must find these very specific things attractive"

The male player not wanting to fuck drake doesn't mean it's not sexual. Sexuality does not end or begin with wanting to fuck something.

 

[Screaming Meat]

I'm not sure 'Sex sells' as much as it gets certain demographics looking. Unfortunately, that's half the battle with marketing.

This thread is not complete without mentioning the fact that the top-selling video games of all time are largely either Call of Duty games or Nintendo games.

Speaks for itself, really.

Right. I reckon it's fantasies that are the big sell in video game marketing, whether they're sexually focused; military/heroic fetish; child-like discovery; being at the cutting edge of tech; or simply the idea of families playing together in a living room.

 

[Opa-Pa]

Well, literally no one would have bought Haydee if it didn't have a thick robot with giant boobs and a butt.

My point isn't that you can't sell something with sex alone, but rather, that many successful games with sexy stuff out there may not /need/ sex to sell. Yeah people bought that crap because it had titties and ass, but I bet it sold as much as other garbage games on Steam with a different quirk and didn't beat them by a significant margin, which would be the case if sex was this magical thing that moves so many copies in the industry.

 

[Hellwarden]

I feel this is a complicated subject people want to simplify down.

I feel like sex appeal can help sell games. Look at the uh...fanart for Overwatch. The fact is a lot of both male and female fans really enjoy that art. How much did that help sell the game? Hard to say, but I don't think it hurt. On the other hand, more positive representation can also probably help push a game. That Horizon Zero Dawn article is something that might attract someone who is turned off by the lack of representation in gaming. That said, how progressive a game is or how much it revels in fanservice is only one factor of many that can influence how a game sells. If being progressive was enough, Dishonored 2 wouldn't have been the flop it was. Horizon Zero Dawn launched with rave reviews and also had a huge marketing push. I'd probably put more stock in those factors being behind its success than its positive representation.

 

[Pantz]

I wonder does anyone buy these games for gameplay or story.

Well worth the $90 import. You can get 100's of hours out of it.

 

[KillLaCam]

Could I ask a very simple question from GAF.
Are we going with the west's idea of sexualization?

Yeah , every time

 

[Cerium]

There is a really sexualized picture of her injured in Fire Emblem Heroes. Shot of her butt included.

There are a lot of pictures of sexualized heroines in that game. Sadly I'm on my phone and can't post pictures.

I'm not talking about Fire Emblem Heroes.

 

[Jharp]

Almost all women in Overwatch are designed for sex appeal.

Sex sells.

Even the girl covered head to toe in thick clothing has generated an absurd amount of sexy fanart:
official:

fanart:

You're insane if you don't think Mei was designed to be sexy, cute, and appeal to horny men, and she's COVERED in clothing. It's honestly brilliant art design on Blizzard's part. You can keep assuming that sex appeal isn't a thing all you want, but there's mountains of marketing data that prove you wrong. Sure, it's nice when developers go out of their way to avoid it. But it also makes complete sense when they don't. They have a product they want to sell, and they know their audience. Nuanced portrayals of women in video games won't make teenage boys like cleavage any less. Is that problematic and self-defeatist? Maybe, but it's true. Truth doesn't have an obligation to be inoffensive or inherently culturally progressive. Teenage boys are horny, always will be, and their dollars are ripe for the taking.

 

[Crossing Eden]

fair enough, then by all means we should see more of that in games.

Absolutely.

If I was a woman all 3 of those scenes would appeal to me.

Rugged man, Rugged man who looks back, Rugged man who knows how to caress me. Hell, I'm sure there are men who wish they could caress a woman like he does in that last picture.

All those pictures are sexy.

But here's the thing, there's a difference between the first gif and second gif, they were made with women in mind in the same way that this was made with men in mind:

see the blatant difference between that and simply a male character being attractive? Nathan Drake isn't even rugged.

It sucks, I would imagine.

He heals people with fireballs so i'm sure he's fine not wearing a shirt.

If you think it looks edgy you haven't been paying attention at all to what that game is trying to do, as it's certainly very far from edgy.

Genuinely check that game out as mental illness is rarely represented in gaming.

It's idealized, but not sexual. The male player isn't meant to fuck Nathan Drake and he was designed to be an ideal for the "every man," not because "man women must find these very specific things attractive

It does when the intent is to sexualize the character. Some people think Connor is the sexiest AC protagonist but that doesn't mean that Ubi's intent was to sexualize him.

 

[RM8]

Yeah , every time

If this actually mean "but Japan likes sexual pandering!", I'd remind you that otaku pandering is seen as otaku pandering here in Japan and that the games that actually sell well are stuff like Dragon Quest, MonHun, Pokémon, Mario Kart, Youkai Watch, Animal Crossing, etc. (And not DOAX or whatever).

 

[Dio]

My point isn't that you can't sell something with sex alone, but rather, that many successful games out there don't /need/ sex to sell. Yeah people bought that crap because it had titties and ass, but I bet it sold as much as other garbage games on Steam with a different quirk and didn't beat them by a significant margin, which would be the case if sex was this magical thing that moves so many copies in the medium.

It sold like 20,000+ copies on Steam. It's sold more or around the same as Toukiden 2 PC, Disc Jam PC, the Turok 2 remaster, and Dead Rising 4 PC so far.

 

[-COOLIO-]

Absolutely.


But here's the thing, there's a difference between the first gif and second gif, they were made with women in mind in the same way that this was made with men in mind:

see the blatant difference between that and simply a male character being attractive? Nathan Drake isn't even rugged.

fair, we should totally have more sexualization that's tailor made for women in games.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

Absolutely.


But here's the thing, there's a difference between the first gif and second gif, they were made with women in mind in the same way that this was made with men in mind:

I don't disagree.

see the blatant difference between that and simply a male character being attractive? Nathan Drake isn't even rugged

In your opinion. Nathan Drake is a handsome, rugged man.He was created to be that. Some people find that sexy. Some people find that to be the ideal of what a man should be.

Like I send, sexuality does not begin or end at wanting to fuck something. It is much, much more than that.

 

[KillLaCam]

If this actually mean "but Japan likes sexual pandering!", I'd remind you that otaku pandering is seen as otaku pandering here in Japan and that the games that actually sell well are stuff like Dragon Quest, MonHun, Pokémon, Mario Kart, Youkai Watch, Animal Crossing, etc. (And not DOAX or whatever).

No. That shit is cringy too. Otaku culture is a whole different level of cringy that makes me uncomfortable.
Its the main reason I havent found any anime to watch in like 3 or 4 years. Everything so called "seinin" is just sexual mess now. Its actually aggravating

 

[Peterc]

Not really. There is very little evidence that FFXV moved more copies because Cindy is dressed in that ridiculous getup.

Tombraider1 is the proof. Bad game, but lara craft did the trick.

 

[Crossing Eden]

I don't disagree.




In your opinion. Nathan Drake is a handsome, rugged man.He was created to be that. Some people find that sexy. Some people find that to be the ideal of what a man should be.

Like I send, sexuality does not begin or end at wanting to fuck something. It is much, much more than that.

Some people find that sexy, but that isn't ND's intention, and ND in the past hasn't been shy when it comes to sexualization even in Uncharted:

As I said before, it rarely is because game devs go out of their way to do the opposite for male characters

That's the whole point of heroic idealism, to provide a self insert ideal human for the audience. So while they're attractive, they're not being marketed as sex objects. Meanwhile that's an issue that women have to worry about near constantly.

 

[Famassu]

The controversies around Quiet and Cindy were pretty much free publicity for the games though.

So in a way sex did help sell those games, with a little hep from offended news outlets.

Let's not keep up with this idiotic notion that people who criticize stuff like Quiet & Cindy are "offended". Critique (even harshly worded such) != being offended.

 

[Wishmaster92]

Imagine if instead of UC4 beginning with him scuba diving it instead began with a scene of him being called by Elena and subsequently introduced like this:

Spoiler

What the heck is wrong with his left arm

 

[chillybright]

In League of Legends sexy skins sells like hot cakes.

Also Asswatch, aka team fortress with Waifus.

 

[depths20XX]

I like how the three examples listed in the OP were from Japanese developed games but it's an issue of straight, white, males.

 

[Crocodile]

I'd also add that while "the best selling games of all time often don't have much sex appeal" is totally true, I feel when that statment is used as a mic drop, it becomes ignorant of the fact even the most broadly appealing games will whiff on some who might be more interested in more niche products and that most developers don't have the resources of Nintendo, EA, Ubisoft, etc. More people overall like Mario than say Nier but there are people who will buy Nier that might just not be interested in Mario. If games are being creepy or stupid about their sexuality they deserve critique but the industry won't be best served by trying to make every game (aesthetically) G or PG rated.

I'd also add that I agree with BreezyLimbo's overall point - there is a difference in presentation between "idealized" and "sexualized" but the former still plays into human sexuality and is still a "selling point" to many people. Like there is a difference but a smaller one than many feel like admitting.

Almost all women in Overwatch are designed for sex appeal.

Sex sells.

I don't think it can be understated how beneficial the character designs of the cast of Overwatch were to the success of that game (this is true of any game where the characters are the main or one of the main selling points). It's not an accident how much fan-art or porn was generated before Overwatch even came out (and that includes characters like Mei and Zarya).

This seems like a pretty absurd assumption. How can you possibly know this? You're starting at a faulty premise by assuming that anyone would buy the game simply because of the character, when in reality, it's more likely that someone flipping through a Game Informer or Famitsu that typically wouldn't care about another crop of JRPG stereotypes fighting monsters sees some cleavage and stops. Boom, there's the interest. That's all it has to be. They're not trying to get sales for tits, they're trying to get interest and eyeballs by being a bit sexy. Maybe fifteen year old Tommy in Everytown, USA thinks Final Fantasy is dumb because his older brother played Final Fantasy VIII and said it sucked, so normally Tommy wouldn't bother with a Final Fantasy game. But reading IGN one day he sees Cindy and starts reading about the game because boobs. He thinks the game sounds cool and way different than his unfair bias based on someone else's opinion led him to believe.

This is also true. There have been many games where I didn't know much about it, saw an appealing design (which doesn't always mean sexy to be fair) and decided to learn more about it. There is value in eye-catching designs. You just have to know not to overdo it and use it in the best context.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Even the girl covered head to toe in thick clothing has generated an absurd amount of sexy fanart:
official:

fanart:


You're insane if you don't think Mei was designed to be sexy, cute, and appeal to horny men, and she's COVERED in clothing. It's honestly brilliant art design on Blizzard's part. You can keep assuming that sex appeal isn't a thing all you want, but there's mountains of marketing data that prove you wrong. Sure, it's nice when developers go out of their way to avoid it. But it also makes complete sense when they don't. They have a product they want to sell, and they know their audience. Nuanced portrayals of women in video games won't make teenage boys like cleavage any less. Is that problematic and self-defeatist? Maybe, but it's true. Truth doesn't have an obligation to be inoffensive or inherently culturally progressive. Teenage boys are horny, always will be, and their dollars are ripe for the taking.

Isn't this official art for Mei?

Blizzard certainly knew what they were doing.

 

[JordanN]

Even the girl covered head to toe in thick clothing has generated an absurd amount of sexy fanart:
official:

Mei's model has the biggest arse in gaming.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

Some people find that sexy, but that isn't ND's intention, and ND in the past hasn't been shy when it comes to sexualization:
As I said before, it rarely is because game devs go out of their way to do the opposite.

That's the whole point of heroic idealism, to provide a self insert ideal human for the audience.

And Heroic idealism doesn't work without sexual idealism. If Nathan Drake was an ugly, overweight character, who despite that, did everything Nathan did, Uncharted probably wouldn't have sold enough to warrant a sequel.

They go hand and hand. Heroic Idealism=sexual idealism in the industry. That's why all male protagonists tend to be handsome if not 'sexy'.

 

[Trickster]

This feels like something that just isn't true no matter how much you might say it is. I mean, there's plenty of examples where games owe much of their popularity and appeal to sexualized character. Some of the obvious examples being stuff like Nier Automata and Overwatch. When you have as much sexy fanart for your game as these does, there's a reason.

And you or anyone else can call it heroic idealism. But those idealized portrayals still boil down to characters that are inherently attractive. That they don't have their boobs or butt exposed doesn't really change the fact that those character are some attractive as hell people that appeal to people because they find them attractive. That doesn't mean that's only why the characters appeal to people, but "sex" is certainly part of it

 

[TheRedSnifit]

In League of Legends sexy skins sells like hot cakes.

Also Asswatch, aka team fortress with Waifus.

Related/unrelated:

 

[redcrayon]

I'd argue that Fire Emblem was basically resurrected because of waifus though.

It's not an end all solution, but it happens in instances.

I'd argue that Fire Emblem's resurrection is far more likely down to increased accessibility such as adding modes where players can see the end of the story even if they aren't good at strategy games. A SRPG is niche enough, but a reputation for permadeath, losing up to an hour of progress on a battle and perhaps not even being able to finish the campaign if you are particularly struggling and press on while losing too many characters/wasting XP was putting off a lot of people. FE has always had 'waifus', that's why characters like Lyn and Eireka (leads from the GBA games) top the polls alongside Lucina (Awakening). 'Waifus' is also conveniently ignoring the large increase in production values, advertising and cross-promotion through other games.

It just seems like an argument that wants to put changes and the success of the series down to something they dislike rather than an effort to raise its profile across the board.

 

[Crossing Eden]

I like how the three examples listed in the OP were from Japanese developed games but it's an issue of straight, white, males.

All three of those franchises have big western audiences but, pardon me for being so blunt, let's not ignore the fact that the west has been on an upward spiral in terms of representation compared to Japan. Granted, western gaming isn't perfect:

Spoiler

Isn't this official art for Mei?

Blizzard certainly knew what they were doing.

That literally says "early concept." This is the final design for Mei:

There's sexy fanart of all overwatch characters, intent matters, huge difference between Zarya, Pharah, and Widowmaker. The former also getting sexualized fan art because fans do that shit regardless of material.

She's mean to be cute, but she is sexualized intentionally just as much as Nathan Drake is.

Mei's model has the biggest arse in gaming.

My dude get that shit out of here. Pretty sure nude mods aren't allowed to be posted on this site. :|

This feels like something that just isn't true no matter how much you might say it is. I mean, there's plenty of examples where games owe much of their popularity and appeal to sexualized character. Some of the obvious examples being stuff like Nier Automata and Overwatch. When you have as much sexy fanart for your game as these does, there's a reason.

And you or anyone else can call it heroic idealism. But those idealized portrayals still boil down to characters that are inherently attractive. That they don't have their boobs or butt exposed doesn't really change the fact that those character are some attractive as hell people that appeal to people because they find them attractive. That doesn't mean that's only why the characters appeal to people, but "sex" is certainly part of it

And there's an absurd amount of sexualized fanart of AC's male characters on tumblr. Fan art is not the metric for how well sex sells lmfao.

 

[Napalm_Frank]

Best selling Yoko Taro game is the one that has the best android ass.

Checkmate.

 

[Mendrox]

I didn't know people actually took that meme seriously.

Fire Emblem Awakening sold well because it improved the presentation, shook up the artstyle, had a great and memorable cast of characters, introduced quality of life features for people who are not good at videogames, and added interesting mechanics to the gameplay as well as a customizable avatar. It also received more marketing than any other entry in recent memory.

This is the main heroine and BY FAR the most popular character from the game.

No part of that design is sexualized.

Urgh Yes the gameplay changes were a reason too but cmon the waifus revived the whole series in another part od the world

 

[AlexFlame116]

Best selling Yoko Taro game is the one that has the best android ass.

Checkmate.

Ooooh boy here it comes! What have you done Napalm?!

 

[redcrayon]

But is that because she's a cool character, or is it because she's just "Girl Marth"?

I think a big part of Lucina's appeal is that 'travelled through time with the children of your allies from a post-apocalyptic future to stop it coming to pass if her father, your best friend, is assassinated' is a more original story arc for FE than 'princess and her retainers on the run and want their kingdom back. Again.'

 

[Screaming Meat]

Best selling Yoko Taro game is the one that has the biggest marketing budget.

Checkmate.

FTFY

 

[Chindogg]

I'd argue that Fire Emblem's resurrection is far more likely down to increased accessibility such as adding modes where players can see the end of the story even if they aren't good at strategy games. A SRPG is niche enough, but a reputation for permadeath, losing up to an hour of progress on a battle and perhaps not even being able to finish the campaign if you are particularly struggling and press on while losing too many characters/wasting XP was putting off a lot of people. FE has always had 'waifus', that's why characters like Lyn and Eireka (leads from the GBA games) top the polls alongside Lucina (Awakening). 'Waifus' is also conveniently ignoring the large increase in production values, advertising and cross-promotion through other games.

It just seems like an argument that wants to put changes and the success of the series down to something they dislike rather than an effort to raise its profile across the board.

I totally agree that accessibility had a hand in it as well but to ignore being able to establish relationships between characters is also ignoring a massive part of it's success.

As this guy stated:

Urgh Yes the gameplay changes were a reason too but cmon the waifus revived the whole series in another part od the world

A big part of Mass Effect's appeal is also relationship building into sex at the end. Like I said in my previous post, it doesn't work all the time but in some instances it does.

FTFY

I never saw a single ad for Nier. What did I see? My Twitter feed full of horny 2B fanart from random people's retweets.

 

[miller.skippins]

I'd argue that Fire Emblem was basically resurrected because of waifus though.

It's not an end all solution, but it happens in instances.

and if sex sells...then the publishers are just supplying the demand...so i don't see what's wrong with that.

I mean....twilight and 50 shades are basically 'sexist' stories catered for ladies and i don't see any guys complaining about it (other than the dudes being dragged by their ladies to watch it)..

 

[Trickster]

And there's an absurd amount of sexualized fanart of AC's male characters on tumblr. Fan art is not the metric for how well sex sells lmfao.

Well if you say it, it must be true lol

 

[Neoleo2143]

Urgh Yes the gameplay changes were a reason too but cmon the waifus revived the whole series in another part od the world

This isn't really an argument. Fire Emblem is at forefront of the Japanese SRPG currently because Int Sys approached the game to appeal to newcomer explicitly after the poor production values of New Mystery, Shadow Dragon and Radiant Dawn.

While Radiant Dawn was a pretty mediocre looking Wii Game with some good looking CG. Awakening was one of the 3DS games with some of best production values at the time and made an incredible case for the idea of having an anime entirely in 3D CG.

Compare the marketing for Radiant Dawn and Awakening and it's night and day.

The argument of Waifus is nebulous at best. It was production values and some brilliant marketing that sold FE and made it into the face of the genre currently. Then the relationship systems were spread via word of mouth. And both Men and Women were appealed to. FE has a substantial Female demographic as well as male demographic which has not changed even today.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

My dude get that shit out of here. Pretty sure nude mods aren't allowed to be posted on this site. :|

You're joking right

That's not a nude mod for mei

 

[barit]

I still feel that your understanding of the term "sex sells" isn't correct.

"Sex in advertising is the use of sex appeal in advertising to help sell a particular product or service. Sexually appealing imagery may or may not pertain to the product or service in question. Examples of sexually appealing imagery include nudity, pin-up models, and muscular men."

It's a term, based on something that is used by marketing in reality.

You're in some weird place where you're trying to argue against the harmful effect of pop up ads or something.

"Sex sells", is a reality.

This. It's not only in video games, it's everywhere. Newest example is Ghost in The Shell with ScarJo. Just look at the movie poster. Her well-shaped breasts alone would make me want to see the damn movie.

 

[KillLaCam]

And Heroic idealism doesn't work without sexual idealism. If Nathan Drake was an ugly, overweight character, who despite that, did everything Nathan did, Uncharted probably wouldn't have sold enough to warrant a sequel.

They go hand and hand. Heroic Idealism=sexual idealism in the industry. That's why all male protagonists tend to be handsome if not 'sexy'.

So wouldn't it be impossible to make a hero without some type of sexualization?
Like you generally want your hero to be attractive so theyll catch peoples eyes and theyll remember that look. Like the only old out of shape guy hero I can think of is Mario. But Mario games arent trying to be serious in any way so you could make a potato the main character and it wouldn't change much.

But in a game like Uncharted or Something you couldn't really change much because you have to keep up peoples suspension of disbelief. Maybe you could give Nathan a less masculine face or something. But his body shape seems reasonable to me. I do Muay Thai and Rock Climbing and know people with way bigger muscles than him. So if he was fat or something I think it would destroy my suspension of disbelief.


I only think this would be an issue in more serious games though.

 

[Poor GRIMES]

And Heroic idealism doesn't work without sexual idealism. If Nathan Drake was an ugly, overweight character, who despite that, did everything Nathan did, Uncharted probably wouldn't have sold enough to warrant a sequel.

They go hand and hand. Heroic Idealism=sexual idealism in the industry. That's why all male protagonists tend to be handsome if not 'sexy'.

Huh? Have you not been reading her posts? Can you honestly not differentiate between a handsome male protagonist being handsome and not being intentionally sexualized by the game's camera? There's a stark difference between how handsome men and gorgeous women are treated in video game portrayals. Look no further than the numerous gifs that the OP posted.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

So wouldn't it be impossible to make a hero without some type of sexualization?
Like you generally want your hero to be attractive so theyll catch peoples eyes and theyll remember that look. Like the only old out of shape guy hero I can think of is Mario. But Mario games arent trying to be serious in any way so you could make a potato the main character and it wouldn't change much.

But in a game like Uncharted or Something you couldn't really change much because you have to keep up peoples suspension of disbelief. Maybe you could give Nathan a less masculine face or something. But his body shape seems reasonable to me. I do Muay Thai and Rock Climbing and know people with way bigger muscles than him. So if he was fat or something I think it would destroy my suspension of disbelief.


I only think this would be an issue in more serious games though.

Nintendo games are something special, in that regard, aren't they?

Yeah, realistic games suffer this. Even fantasy or sci fi games like final fantasy or..mass effect(Well, previous ones) suffer this.

Huh? Have you not been reading her posts? Can you honestly not differentiate between a handsome male protagonist being handsome and not being intentionally sexualized by the game's camera? There's a stark difference between how handsome men and gorgeous women are treated in video game portrayals. Look no further than the numerous gifs that the OP posted.

Crossing Eden is a guy, I believe...?

...The point is, 'sex sells' includes more than just women.

 

[AlexFlame116]

My dude get that shit out of here. Pretty sure nude mods aren't allowed to be posted on this site. :|

But...that isn't a nude mod. It's odd and looks similar yes but it isn't a nude mod.

 

[MoonFrog]

Yep, Marth is kind of lame. He sucks in his game and his game is the worst of the franchise released in the west. He's only cool in Smash Bros.

I don't really see how Lucina is any less lame, if Marth's lame. Marth's bland. Lucina is bland. Marth has a cool design. Lucina makes that design female. They're both heroes coming from ruin. I really don't know what suggests her particularly that doesn't suggest Marth. It is not like the Awakening 'world of ruin' story and time travel is actually well done or she has a strong personality beyond dutiful, stoic hero. There is a bit of a wrinkle there; she is more reserved than a Marth or his clones, who're often more chatty.

I really think Lucina is sold to a) people who like reserved female, dutiful heroes and b) people who like the idea of a she-Marth/FE hero.

a) is often softcore sex selling it. b) doesn't alone speak volumes of her character.

I think there is a lot of a) in the fandom, and the more I see her handwaved as a good character, the more I think that's the case.

And I think that speaks to something FE has always Or at least long had. Softcore, inviting anime "sex." Awakening made that more accessible and attractive and player driven.

...

As to Awakening, I imagine it sold in part as the anime/dating simulation itch for those who didn't want a more abrasively perverted product. My unit, the gameplay focus on pairing and children, the new art style, the complete abandonment of trying to tell a competent, if simple story, one-note characters whose tropes tended to be personality driven rather than narrative driven, etc. all sell this comfy sexy, but safe anime for the masses where you can turn your brain off.

Sure, casual mode helps a lot of people enjoy the game. And it helped Awakening sell. Doesn't mean the shift in tone, art, and narrative/character content didn't help.

...

Edit: But on topic of the thread...I don't tend to get sold on sex alone. But...what I just wrote about Awakening comes partly from introspection (not that I like that game itself. I am fond of Lucina though) I do enjoy games that give me romantic feelings for characters I like for art, use, story, character reasons.

And then, it is taken with the whole package considered. Idk. I don't think it's clear cut.

Further edit:

This isn't really an argument. Fire Emblem is at forefront of the Japanese SRPG currently because Int Sys approached the game to appeal to newcomer explicitly after the poor production values of New Mystery, Shadow Dragon and Radiant Dawn.

While Radiant Dawn was a pretty mediocre looking Wii Game with some good looking CG. Awakening was one of the 3DS games with some of best production values at the time and made an incredible case for the idea of having an anime entirely in 3D CG.

Compare the marketing for Radiant Dawn and Awakening and it's night and day.

The argument of Waifus is nebulous at best. It was production values and some brilliant marketing that sold FE and made it into the face of the genre currently. Then the relationship systems were spread via word of mouth. And both Men and Women were appealed to. FE has a substantial Female demographic as well as male demographic which has not changed even today.

Of course it is nebulous, but about the bolded, sex sells to women too. Just look at female gendered entertainment. A lot of it is about hot, dream guys at some level, and often the chief level. Look at shojo. Look at "trendy" KDrama. Look at boy bands. Look at a lot of young adult fiction.

A lot of this stuff is fairly softcore, just as it is in FE.

Or is softcore sex helping sell something not sex selling something?

I think when you've got a game that makes itself more sexually accessible, interactive, and presentable, and when this is an oft toted feature of the game among its fans, it probably helped sell that game.

 

[Poor GRIMES]

Well if you say it, it must be true lol

It is though lol. Do you really think developers go out of their way to sex their male protagonists up? Who cares what fans do outside of the game's intended portrayals of that character getting sexed up fanart. The discussion here is about developers sexualizing women more often than men in video games.

 

[Crossing Eden]

and if sex sells...then the publishers are just supplying the demand...so i don't see what's wrong with that.

I mean....twilight and 50 shades are basically 'sexist' stories catered for ladies and i don't see any guys complaining about it (other than the dudes being dragged by their ladies to watch it)..

Men do complain about twilight and 50 shades, and YA novels in general. And here's the thing, there's absolutely something inherently fucked up about constantly presenting one gender as objectified regardless of context for the sake of possible sales in this day and age where more money is to be had from inclusivity considering how many women play games regularly.

Well if you say it, it must be true lol

Consider that there are people that find Desmond attractive enough to draw sexy fanart. Again, fan art isn't the metric we should be using for "sex sells." I feel people are trying to distract from the issue while scrambling for exceptions to the notion presented in the OP.

But...that isn't a nude mod. It's odd and looks similar yes but it isn't a nude mod.

Boy they literally changed the color of of her pants to the same color as her skin.