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The Automotive Discussion Thread

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N

N-Bomb

Member
AcridMeat said:
I guess I'm not seeing what the huge significance of .8mph makes when we're talking about this car.

Real world no one is going 0-60 anyway.

I mean I guess you can call it cheating, but I never thought that statistic is anything more than a throwaway fact to show off.
Click to expand...

Eh, have you noticed that all cars have a more abrupt 2-3 change than any other gear? That's because 1 and 2 are optimized for this 0-60 stat rather than real world driving. :)


reilo said:
I do know that these guys do them and are pretty successful at it:

http://www.lightwerkz.net/
Click to expand...

Thanks dude. Will check em out. Got used to the really nice projectors in my old Celica, don't want to go back to reflectors.
 
N

N-Bomb

Member
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2012/01/2013-dodge-viper-teaser-lead.jpg

I know this is old, but the thought just occurred to someone in the office - doesn't that look like ET?


Dave Inc. said:
I have no idea what this means.
Click to expand...


What it means is that they optimized the gear rations in gears 1 and 2 so that you don't have to make a 2nd upshift before 60MPH. Gear shifts take time, and if they can eliminate one, it makes their 0-60 look better than it would be in practical real-world design.
 
D

David Incorporated Esq.

Member
N-Bomb said:
What it means is that they optimized the gear rations in gears 1 and 2 so that you don't have to make a 2nd upshift before 60MPH. Gear shifts take time, and if they can eliminate one, it makes their 0-60 look better than it would be in practical real-world design.
Click to expand...

I don't think this is particularly true and even if it were I don't see how that would make the 2-3 shift more "abrupt" than other changes.
 
N

N-Bomb

Member
Dave Inc. said:
I don't think this is particularly true and even if it were I don't see how that would make the 2-3 shift more "abrupt" than other changes.
Click to expand...

Well, if it were set up normally, you'd have more even spacing between all gears, but as it is, you have 1-2, 3-4, 4-5, 5-6 being fairly even, but 2-3 being longer or shorter depending on how they optimized it.

Examples:

240SX 5sp
First: 3.321
Second: 1.902
Third: 1.308
Fourth: 1.000
Fifth: 0.759


BRZ 6sp
1st 3.626
2nd 2.188
3rd 1.541
4th 1.213
5th 1.000
6th 0.767

See how 2-3 is farther spaced than the rest? (1 is always a crazy low gear for quick acceleration, so 1-2 doesn't matter as much for 0-60)
 
D

David Incorporated Esq.

Member
N-Bomb said:
Well, if it were set up normally, you'd have more even spacing between all gears, but as it is, you have 1-2, 3-4, 4-5, 5-6 being fairly even, but 2-3 being longer or shorter depending on how they optimized it.

Examples:

...

See how 2-3 is farther spaced than the rest? (1 is always a crazy low gear for quick acceleration, so 1-2 doesn't matter as much for 0-60)
Click to expand...

That's just how it works out with the powerbands and ratios. You want the powerband in second gear to start around the redline speed of first gear, or as close to as makes sense. If the ratio for second was closer to the ration for third you'd have a broad deadzone in power when you shifted into second from first--you'd be shifting into second at 2500rpm after screaming away at 7000rpm in first.

You also have to consider that, when shown on a chart, those exponential ratio numbers end up giving fairly even gaps in speeds (1st goes to 30, 2nd goes to 60, 3rd goes to 90, 4th goes to 120, etc.).

Edit: Here I found this for the 240sx:

IhN9G.jpg


See how the speeds are relatively evenly spread out? (The blue line is a five speed from an S13 I think).
 
N

N-Bomb

Member
Dave Inc. said:
See how the speeds are relatively evenly spread out? (The blue line is a five speed from an S13 I think).
Click to expand...

Well, you don't want it spread out in speed so much as keeping everything in the powerband.

If you'll notice, all of the gear changes are fairly similar except 2-3. 0-60 (0-100) has been a selling point for decades, do you really think they wouldn't use trickery to make a car seem faster within that narrow slice of performance?

Even if a shift takes half a second, you'd rather, as marketing, have that happen above 60 MPH so that it doesn't tack that 0.5 seconds on to your published 0-60.
 
A

AlphaSnake

...and that, kids, was the first time I sucked a dick for crack
Circle T said:
0-60, 1/4 mile, Nürb times, etc, always seemed to me like the automotive equivalent of the "Why so low?" complaints we see on gaming side with reviews. One magazine gets a 0-60 time, another gets a different time. Some car sets a time around the Ring, then something else beats it. That is all well and good, but it really all means nothing. I mean, if a few tenths of a second are the determining factor on whether a car is good or not to some people, so be it. But just like with games, personally, I just want to know how enjoyable/practical/efficient a car is. The score really means nothing.
Click to expand...

With cars these stats are more factual though. They are a factual indication of how a car feels, how its speed feels. Power is very important to me, I love it. I think in the right hands, it makes for a safer car and safer drive. Me seeing that a car can do a 1/4 mile at a certain speed indicates how its power translates to real life experience. And when talking about 1/4 miles, I look at the trap-speeds first, as they are the proper indicator of power - the actual time is just telling me how much traction the car had.
 
D

David Incorporated Esq.

Member
N-Bomb said:
Well, you don't want it spread out in speed so much as keeping everything in the powerband.

If you'll notice, all of the gear changes are fairly similar except 2-3. 0-60 (0-100) has been a selling point for decades, do you really think they wouldn't use trickery to make a car seem faster within that narrow slice of performance?

Even if a shift takes half a second, you'd rather, as marketing, have that happen above 60 MPH so that it doesn't tack that 0.5 seconds on to your published 0-60.
Click to expand...

I'm not going to say that companies haven't gamed their transmissions a little bit to get the second gear shift above 60 but it is absolutely more about getting the gearing matched to the engine.

I really don't understand what you're talking about when you say the 2-3 shift is different from the other shifts. If you look at the chart I posted you'll see that the starting rpm in each gear follows a pretty smooth curve. Make second gear much shorter than that and it will become less usable in daily driving and you'll spend all day shifting (which will also hurt acceleration times).

Think about it, what's the point of second gear if first tops out at 30 and second at 45? Just skip it and go to third. Now if you have a racing transmission that will probably be set up to have much closer gears, but it's not like you'd want to drive that around all the time.
 
Circle T

Circle T

Member
AlphaSnake said:
With cars these stats are more factual though. They are a factual indication of how a car feels, how its speed feels. Power is very important to me, I love it. I think in the right hands, it makes for a safer car and safer drive. Me seeing that a car can do a 1/4 mile at a certain speed indicates how its power translates to real life experience. And when talking about 1/4 miles, I look at the trap-speeds first, as they are the proper indicator of power - the actual time is just telling me how much traction the car had.
Click to expand...

They're just numbers to me. I said this before when relating to the BRZ, but my old S14 240SX was one of the most fun cars I've ever owned. Even with little more than 160hp from the wheezy KA24, due to it being small, light, low and RWD, it was just a blast to drive. Now, no, it certainly wouldn't win many drag races with its US-spec engine. To me, though, cars are about more than simply how fast they make the scenery blur when you mash the gas. Poor times and all, my 240 would bring a smile to my face faster than just about anything I've owned.
 
A

ameratsu

Member
Anyone have a suggestion for a single bike mount for a thule roof rack? A lot of the ones I've looked at are $150-$250+; would like something for about $100 if possible. Will be used with a road bike.
 
Shortt Sirket

Shortt Sirket

Member
Circle T said:
They're just numbers to me. I said this before when relating to the BRZ, but my old S14 240SX was one of the most fun cars I've ever owned. Even with little more than 160hp from the wheezy KA24, due to it being small, light, low and RWD, it was just a blast to drive. Now, no, it certainly wouldn't win many drag races with its US-spec engine. To me, though, cars are about more than simply how fast they make the scenery blur when you mash the gas. Poor times and all, my 240 would bring a smile to my face faster than just about anything I've owned.
Click to expand...

This is exactly why I love my E36 M3. It is not the fastest BMW and there are a lot of normal cars (Accords, Altimas, etc) that have more horsepower. But it is fairly light and the suspension is fantastic, which makes driving it just a blast. Yeah, it isn't crazy fast in a straight line but taking it around corners and just really "driving" the car is so much fun.

People get too obsessed with power and completely forget what makes a great car a great car.
 
A

AlphaSnake

...and that, kids, was the first time I sucked a dick for crack
I'm not obsessed with power. But I do think it is extremely important. I think the new Shelby is absolutely stupid. I think the ZR1 is pointless.

But I do think cars like the V12 Vantage, Z06, R8 V10, 911 Turbo S, and the lot have an idea amount of power. Over 500HP weighing between 3000-3500lbs.
 
A

ascii42

Member
AlphaSnake said:
I'm not obsessed with power. But I do think it is extremely important. I think the new Shelby is absolutely stupid. I think the ZR1 is pointless.

But I do think cars like the V12 Vantage, Z06, R8 V10, 911 Turbo S, and the lot have an idea amount of power. Over 500HP weighing between 3000-3500lbs.
Click to expand...
The power in a lot of these cars is pointless.

But if it isn't pointless, what's the point?
 
Circle T

Circle T

Member
ascii42 said:
The power in a lot of these cars is pointless.

But if it isn't pointless, what's the point?
Click to expand...

Totally. The Aston, for example, is a car where power and speed are WELL down on my list of its amazing features. When I think of one, this is basically my thought process...

1 - Damn it sounds good
2 - Damn it looks good
3 - Wow, it REALLY sounds amazing
4 - Wow, it REALLY looks amazing
5 - HOLY FUCK it sounds glorious.
6 - In 50 years, that will still look amazing.
7 - I bet it's pretty fast
 
S

shinshoryuken

Member
ascii42 said:
The power in a lot of these cars is pointless.

But if it isn't pointless, what's the point?
Click to expand...

I like power because I like the feeling of speed.

I had pretty nice looking cars but they weren't as powerful. Nice to look at but when I'm driving I'm not looking at the exterior. I do like nice pretty looking cars, but the feeling of speed is more addicting for me.
 
D

diddles

Banned
on a date tonight, saw a red ferarri drive by. my head was spinning trying to see if it was i thought it was, but it disappeared in about 2 seconds. i wanted to run and get a look at it but knew the chick i was with wouldn't be pleased, so i pretended to pay attention to her. finished dinner, walk out to my car, and there it was parked right next to my old integra.

IMG_20120427_202138.jpg


first time i've seen one in the wild. i was totally giddy.
 
A

AlphaSnake

...and that, kids, was the first time I sucked a dick for crack
I see a red Enzo fairly often around here. His license plate is from New Jersey and says TaxDr. He also has a 599GTO. :(
 
Mohonky

Mohonky

Member
diddles said:
on a date tonight, saw a red ferarri drive by. my head was spinning trying to see if it was i thought it was, but it disappeared in about 2 seconds. i wanted to run and get a look at it but knew the chick i was with wouldn't be pleased, so i pretended to pay attention to her. finished dinner, walk out to my car, and there it was parked right next to my old integra.

IMG_20120427_202138.jpg


first time i've seen one in the wild. i was totally giddy.
Click to expand...

So did the chick you were with go home with you or wait for the ferrari driver to come back?
 
C

Costcosaurus

Banned
A lot of great cars in this thread. I drive a blue 2012 Suzuki SX4 SportsBack. It's a pretty awesome car that takes regular gas so I love that it's a money saver.
 
B

bodyboarder

Member
diddles said:
on a date tonight, saw a red ferarri drive by. my head was spinning trying to see if it was i thought it was, but it disappeared in about 2 seconds. i wanted to run and get a look at it but knew the chick i was with wouldn't be pleased, so i pretended to pay attention to her. finished dinner, walk out to my car, and there it was parked right next to my old integra.

IMG_20120427_202138.jpg


first time i've seen one in the wild. i was totally giddy.
Click to expand...

I love seeing that. People actually driving their super cars.
 
L

Log4Girlz

Member
diddles said:
on a date tonight, saw a red ferarri drive by. my head was spinning trying to see if it was i thought it was, but it disappeared in about 2 seconds. i wanted to run and get a look at it but knew the chick i was with wouldn't be pleased, so i pretended to pay attention to her. finished dinner, walk out to my car, and there it was parked right next to my old integra.

IMG_20120427_202138.jpg


first time i've seen one in the wild. i was totally giddy.
Click to expand...

Man imagine how much damage you could have done with your keys lol ;)
 
aeroslash

aeroslash

Member
diddles said:
on a date tonight, saw a red ferarri drive by. my head was spinning trying to see if it was i thought it was, but it disappeared in about 2 seconds. i wanted to run and get a look at it but knew the chick i was with wouldn't be pleased, so i pretended to pay attention to her. finished dinner, walk out to my car, and there it was parked right next to my old integra.

IMG_20120427_202138.jpg


first time i've seen one in the wild. i was totally giddy.
Click to expand...

Last year i went to an F1 GP and i was impressed with the number of ferraris that i saw there. Leaving the GP there was an enzo and 2 458 Italia right in front of me. It was the first time i was not happy with my BMW 118 :p
 
S

Smokey

Member
aznpxdd said:
Why SRX? Its shit compare to all the other choices in the same segment.
Click to expand...

cuz it's what she wants?


Zyzyxxz said:
I've test driven both and the SRX is alright I suppose but it feels kinda cramped.

CTS-V is amazing though, basically a 4-door Corvette.
Click to expand...

yeah it is cramped. when i brought it up during the test drive she said she didn't care it's just her and the dog doesn't care how comfortable people are in the back lol. didn't get to test drive the v, weekend ruined :/
 
A

aznpxdd

Member
Smokey said:
cuz it's what she wants?




yeah it is cramped. when i brought it up during the test drive she said she didn't care it's just her and the dog doesn't care how comfortable people are in the back lol. didn't get to test drive the v, weekend ruined :/
Click to expand...

Did you ever chip your 335i smokey?
 
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