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[Orayn]

Why not. All grading is arbitrary, when a professor marks an essay or any other piece of writing and gives it a random percentage the exact same thing occurs.

Assignments usually have specific criteria that form the basis for adding/subtracting points.

What are the scoring guidelines for something as personal and subjective as whether or not you had fun with a game? Do you approach it on its own terms, or some universal good game checklist? Maybe a guess at how you think the average gamer will feel? It's dramatically more slippery than grading an essay or a test, with infinitely more room for interpretation.

 

[Jawbreaker]

It's a good thing games aren't purely mathematical.

 

[Reg]

Good reviews. We'll probably still be talking about this game years from now!

 

[Struct09]

Reviewing better than I expected. I don't have the bandwidth to play it right now but will definitely pick it up some day.

 

[ZeroX03]

Uh so I really didn't jive with Ico at all, but think Shadow of the Colossus is the GOAT. Not having the time to read every review and impression, what am I looking at with TLG?

 

[LordKano]

Greg Miller did not like it (just popped on my TL) :
https://twitter.com/GameOverGreggy/status/805827931457011712

 

[Acquiescence]

Good reviews. We'll probably still be talking about this game years from now!

"Where the hell is the patch?"

 

[ethomaz]

Looks like OC is catching MC...

OC 79
MC 83

 

[Orayn]

Since everyone considers sub-70 to be hot trash

The only winning move is not to play, just stop giving super granular review scores.

 

[HStallion]

Uh so I really didn't jive with Ico at all, but think Shadow of the Colossus is the GOAT. Not having the time to read every review and impression, what am I looking at with TLG?

Its a mix of the two but seems more Ico like considering the general gameplay idea. Thing is you're playing as Yorda and Trico is the Ico character.

 

[enigmatic_alex44]

Since everyone considers sub-70 to be hot trash

Sub-70 IS hot trash. That's where games like Star Fox Zero and Metroid: Fedora Force reside.

The sad reality for games is that:
below 80 = garbage
80 - 89 = good but not great (Dragon Age Inquisition)
90+ = Excellent, generation defining (Metal Gear Solid V, Super Mario 3D World)

A music album can hit 70 and be considered a good score. For whatever reason, games are weighted differently, where a 70 is considered a failure or "average" at best. That's just the broken system we use now.

Can it be fixed? Who knows.

 

[Jawbreaker]

I don't know how the entire communication system between the two protagonists is implemented, but having Trico be a bit stubborn at first, but learn to listen to you faster and more over time would be awesome. I just wonder if it's because of jank and you get to deal with the jank or that it learns to listen to certain commands over time.

That's how it works.

 

[More_Badass]

Uh so I really didn't jive with Ico at all, but think Shadow of the Colossus is the GOAT. Not having the time to read every review and impression, what am I looking at with TLG?

I think Y2Kev's impressions are my favorite so far

If ICO was about friendship and Shadow of the Colossus was about hope in the face of total hopelessness, The Last Guardian is about the satisfaction we get in seeing others succeed.

Some of the things you’ll do you’ll be like, “I can’t believe this isn’t some sequence breaking glitch!” because of how adventurous and dangerous it feels. Something else the game has that Ueda games have not had historically are setpieces. One of them is so exhilarating that I called it my moment of the gen. The way the setpiece blends platforming puzzles with traversal and action and then ends the sequence with a straight up physics puzzle is truly genius and so Ueda. You’ll love it.

The game absolutely sells at every opportunity the dichotomy between the two, which makes this a real role reversal from ICO. The player is the vulnerable one and the player is the one that is useless in combat. Combat is actually taken away from the player entirely (at least so far) and the player relies on Trico for support. And Trico does not screw around! Combat is not frustrating like ICO for this reason. There are also some neat role reversals from SotC. For example, the player completes the "reverse" action on Trico in this game with the spear pulls. Whereas previously you'd be climbing all over big monsters and stabbing them, now you are climbing all over a big monster and trying to help with stab wounds.

 

[HStallion]

Greg Miller did not like it (just popped on my TL) :
https://twitter.com/GameOverGreggy/status/805827931457011712

So its probably pretty good then? Greg's opinions do not jive with me at all.

 

[ANDS]

yeah, it's as nonsensical as being a fan of a team. You have no weight if "your" teams wins or loses, all you can do is "cheer" lol.

Yet there's millions and millions of fans of just about everything, from teams, to cars, to authors, and yes even to video game creators.

I'm a fan of TLG and the creator, and speaking to like minded individuals. No reason to be so exact, its light-hearted in nature. Get the stick out of your ass man

You don't know what gender I am, or what (if any) implement I have inserted in my nether region. Just like I don't know where the light-heartedness ends and the delusional gamer begins. A "lol" attached to a message isn't a marker for any of this. So. . .cool?

 

[Memento]

Right now it is at 83 metacritic.

With 43 reviews being positive, 12 being mixed and 0 being negative.

How is that bad? In fact, it is better than I expected.

I am sure I will love it, given that the criticisms are not something that would derail my experience.

 

[Exile20]

Jim disliked alot things about it.
It seems very frustrating.

The word frustrating seems to be a trend with this game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZh_51AdYBo

 

[FTF]

Good

Spoiler

enough?

scores. Picking it up tomorrow and can't wait to finally play it!

 

[John Kowalski]

Peeps are doing a disservice to themselves by combing through and appraising these extremely early texts about the game. Ico and SoTC have demonstrated that the most meaningful texts about them are made much, much later than release, which meant that reviews and critical pieces in general made before those seminal texts were released were never the best resources to figure out the true depth of those games.

In some ways i think people are putting themselves up for a largely unrepresentative experience with TLG, especially as these early impressions, by the nature of their expedience must focus on immediately quantifiable matters and scare away from extended analyses of any given gameplay mechanic. This focus is not one that should be carried to our own experience with this kind of game.

 

[HStallion]

Sub-70 IS hot trash. That's where games like Star Fox Zero and Metroid: Fedora Force reside.

The sad reality for games is that:
below 80 = garbage
80 - 89 = good but not great (Dragon Age Inquisition)
90+ = Excellent, generation defining (Metal Gear Solid V, Super Mario 3D World)

A music album can hit 70 and be considered a good score. For whatever reason, games are weighted differently, where a 70 is considered a failure or "average" at best. That's just the broken system we use now.

Can it be fixed? Who knows.

This is not always the case. Many games can get thrashed by reviewers and still be well loved and thought of in the end. Nier has a 68 on Metacritic for example.

 

[PlayerOne]

Here is the breakdown so far, from the OP.

27 - 9+ scores
17 - 8+ scores
8 - 7+ scores
3 - 6+ scores
2 - below 6 scores
3 - no scores (Essential, "It was worth the wait", Kotaku - very positive review)

That is why I do not get how people are disappointed or saying the game is a disappointment based on the reviews. Have you been reading the same reviews as I do?

 

[mysocksarepink]

I've been looking forward to this for years, I'm so hyped, but jesus, that performance on PS4 Any chance at a patch?

 

[Bronetta]

That arrogance. Damn.

Theres nothing wrong with Trico's AI but there may be something wrong with the reviewers intelligence.



ARROGANT SONY IS BACK

 

[NormalFish]

Literally years ago Ueda said 'Trico's AI is a simulation of an animal which has never had meaningful contact. There are times when it won't do what you want it to, just like any animal.'

> the AI does this exactly as programmed and described
> people call it 'unresponsive' and 'bad AI'.

OK.

Why does intent matter here? If I design a shooter where there's a random chance that your gun explodes in your hands and instantly kills you, does the fact I intended to do that make the game any less frustrating?

Not to mention AI being "unresponsive" is a cardinal sin in a game like this. It's all about interacting with trico. If you're trying to signal to trico and it doesn't even acknowledge you (doesn't look at you and tilt it's head, doesn't back away, doesn't do anything), then that's actively hindering the point of the game.

You have missed a lot. Trico does roar at you and not want you there when you first find him until you take the spears out of him and free him. It takes some time to earn trust for any animal and obviously Trico isn't going to be scared like a dog as this boy is no threat. You're digging and digging deep but there is no substance there to your argument.

The first time isn't every time. You didn't even address my argument. If you want this game to be about interactivity, as I said in response to the other post, then having an AI that has a random roll to completely ignore your interactions, then that's actively hindering the design. I don't want Trico to respond exactly how you want everytime, I want Trico to respond to anything you do everytime. Even if that response is hindering your progression.

 

[Incitemaybe]

Read the complaints and I can certainly see where the AI not responding even when you have the right solution to a puzzle figured out and not knowing you're on the right path is frustrating. I think it's good to go in knowing that can happen.

Personally I'm excited for the animation, atmosphere, music, character interactions, and the journey itself ❤️

Just a few more hours

 

[somecrazymember]

Wow missed the thread, reviews are much better then I expected. Will buy day 1

 

[Hesh]

Sub-70 IS hot trash. That's where games like Star Fox Zero and Metroid: Fedora Force reside.

The sad reality for games is that:
below 80 = garbage
80 - 89 = good but not great (Dragon Age Inquisition)
90+ = Excellent, generation defining (Metal Gear Solid V, Super Mario 3D World)

A music album can hit 70 and be considered a good score. For whatever reason, games are weighted differently, where a 70 is considered a failure or "average" at best. That's just the broken system we use now.

Can it be fixed? Who knows.

This is silly. Your scale has no "average" nor distinction between "great" and "excellent". I think the only thing that needs "fixing" is your over-reliance on using numbers to grade game experiences. Perhaps a binary system of "recommended" and "not recommended" would fix your problem.

 

[Exile20]

I've been looking forward to this for years, I'm so hyped, but jesus, that performance on PS4 Any chance at a patch?

That is how they force you to buy a PS4 pro, lol.

 

[Shock32]

I predicted 89 or higher but the reviews seem positive and I'm excited to finally play this.

 

[Jobbs]

Visions of that 4/10 Uncharted 4 review...

I finished UC4 and would give it a 6/10 if I reviewed it just on the strenght of its visuals and overall presentation.

 

[perfectchaos007]

Has anyone sent hate mail to IGN yet? That score is almost as much of an outlier as Gamespots 8.8 for Twilight Princess. I'm sure it will ruffle some feathers!!

 

[Risk Breaker]

Sub-70 IS hot trash.

LOL

Nier has a 68. Your argument is invalid.

 

[sora87]

Greg Miller did not like it (just popped on my TL) :
https://twitter.com/GameOverGreggy/status/805827931457011712

No surprise, both him and colin have shitted on it and hated ico and sotc.

 

[HStallion]

I think one of the big issues with the AI is that people seem to think the puzzle begins and ends with the items and the environment. Part of solving the puzzles seems to be getting Trico to work with you to complete them. Trico is as much a part of the puzzle as the switches you activate, barrels you throw and so on. Trico isn't separated from the puzzles, he is very much an essential part of the puzzle. At least that's how it reads from many of the reviews and previews. Some people just don't seem to get or care for this aspect.

 

[Purest 78]

Right now it is at 83 metacritic.

With 43 reviews being positive, 12 being mixed and 0 being negative.

How is that bad? In fact, it is better than I expected.

I am sure I will love it, given that the criticisms are not something that would derail my experience.

Because it's not bad 83 is like a B above average.

 

[ZeroX03]

Its a mix of the two but seems more Ico like considering the general gameplay idea. Thing is you're playing as Yorda and Trico is the Ico character.

I think Y2Kev's impressions are my favorite so far

Still quite torn but no combat sounds nice.

 

[Jawbreaker]

Why does intent matter here? If I design a shooter where there's a random chance that your gun explodes in your hands and instantly kills you, does the fact I intended to do that make the game any less frustrating?

Not to mention AI being "unresponsive" is a cardinal sin in a game like this. It's all about interacting with trico. If you're trying to signal to trico and it doesn't even acknowledge you (doesn't look at you and tilt it's head, doesn't back away, doesn't do anything), then that's actively hindering the point of the game.

The first time isn't every time. You didn't even address my argument. If you want this game to be about interactivity, as I said in response to the other post, then having an AI that has a random roll to completely ignore your interactions, then that's actively hindering the design. I don't want Trico to respond exactly how you want everytime, I want Trico to respond to anything you do everytime. Even if that response is hindering your progression.

No it's not; that's the point of the game. The game is about fostering a relationship with the creature, deepening your bond, and seeing it pay off as you progress and are able to command it with ease later on. The creature is one part of the puzzle.

 

[Raylan]

The only review that truly matters.

You do know that Y2Kev acutally loves The Last Guardian?
Y2Kev treats Trico like it's the only beast in the world and there is undeniable chemistry. It is obvious that Y2Kev loves spending time with it.
Unlike us, Y2Kev is not verbally expressive about matters of the heart. And it might all boil down to one (or more) of these five things:
- It is too early in the relationship. The reviews are still fresh.
- Y2Kev is afraid to commit.
- Y2Kev has been hurt in the past, because waiting for 9 years wasn't easy.
- Y2Kev fears rejection. The guilt of 9 years of 'not believing'.
- Y2Kev is falling for Trico but is too scared to say so.

It Is Love!

 

[The Artisan]

damn, ign gave it a 7?

 

[Omnistalgic]

You don't know what gender I am, or what (if any) implement I have inserted in my nether region. Just like I don't know where the light-heartedness ends and the delusional gamer begins. A "lol" attached to a message isn't a marker for any of this. So. . .cool?

yeah....whatever..

 

[HStallion]

damn, ign gave it a 7?

Just keeping up the tradition!

 

[De_Legend]

No surprise, both him and colin have shitted on it and hated ico and sotc.

Yep. Colin will probably shit on it soon as well I guess.

Good news for me then.

 

[Jawbreaker]

Has anyone sent hate mail to IGN yet? That score is almost as much of an outlier as Gamespots 8.8 for Twilight Princess. I'm sure it will ruffle some feathers!!

Ueda fans aren't as rabid as Zelda fans, thankfully.

 

[enigmatic_alex44]

LOL

Nier has a 68. Your argument is invalid.

THAT'S your defense?

I played 6 hours of that mess and gave up, the jank was too much and the lead character was terrible (also ugly). Nier got exactly the score it deserved.

 

[Jawbreaker]

Which one. I presented two different possibilities. Is it jank or does it actually learn?

It's not jank.

 

[Toki767]

I wonder if they thought about making a New Game+ mode where Trico listens to you all the time.

 

[firelogic]

I predicted high 60s to low 70s so the fact that it's got a meta of 83 after 55 reviews is stellar. It's just the 4 or 5 extremely low scores that are bringing the average down. Look at how many 8s to 10s it has. I'd say it's a critical success.

 

[Raylan]

Right now it is at 83 metacritic.

With 43 reviews being positive, 12 being mixed and 0 being negative.

How is that bad? In fact, it is better than I expected.

I am sure I will love it, given that the criticisms are not something that would derail my experience.

It isn't

 

[Teeth]

While you aren't wrong, this is why gamers can become so jaded. Think too deeply about it and sometimes the creator's intended effect can be lost.

To be honest, this comes about more when you start making them.


That said, I'm not taking away from the achievement of this game. The actual AI that the game is doing is likely monumental; the quadrupedal pathfinding, the animation sequencing, the sheer workload of the amount of spooled bespoke reaction states are all insane from a production standpoint. Of course, the mood, art design, and especially the quality of the animation -- all outstanding masterworks.

But I can't look at the design choices in a vacuum. I get it. But like others, the "feeling" of training an animal through rote repetition of going through success states by way of multiple interim "successful fail states" (AKA, having to do the right thing over and over to actually achieve success, even while the game is telling you that you are doing it wrong), is not my idea of entertainment. If it's yours, that's totally cool.

 

[HStallion]

THAT'S your defense?

I played 6 hours of that mess and gave up, the jank was too much and the lead character was terrible (also ugly). Nier got exactly the score it deserved.

People love the game. No not everyone but its fostered a helluva fanbase. Enough so that it got a sequel over many other games that never did and sold far better and were received at launch better. A sequel by the original creator with Platinum Games doing the gameplay. That's pretty impressive to me even with the initial scores.