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[Bladenic]

(ending spoilers)

Spoiler

I think Falcom is sort of hitting a "soft reset" button with the character lineup, because as both CS1 and CS2 demonstrated, many characters ended up with a lot of dead emotional and plot weight, mostly just being towed around. I think a lot of players including myself would agree that characterization was one of Cold Steel's weakest points and the very large roster contributed to that.

Now that Class VII is out of the way, they can really tell and conclude Rean's story, and Class VII will be ancillary characters that will act as more of a role of "elevated side characters" that was really done well in the Sky games (Take Kevin, who does not spend the whole game with you by any margin, yet is very important, appears during important scenes, etc.). Tightening up the story and character development and improving the quality of the writing are the three things I wanted to see in CS3, and I think that making everyone leave was the best way to approach that. Trying to forcibly continue everyone's plot threads as a group would've just made the problem worse.

This is just my speculation mixed in with what I want to see of course, and is not indicative of Falcom's actual direction...

I was actually gonna say the same thing.

Spoiler

A lot of Class VII have no real reasons to return in a playable capacity other than simply because they were in Class VII. A few of them, sure. But not all, at least not beyond playable for a small section.

Like I said, CS3 has so many possibilities.

 

[Scrooge McDuck]

(ending spoilers)

Spoiler

I think Falcom is sort of hitting a "soft reset" button with the character lineup, because as both CS1 and CS2 demonstrated, many characters ended up with a lot of dead emotional and plot weight, mostly just being towed around. I think a lot of players including myself would agree that characterization was one of Cold Steel's weakest points and the very large roster contributed to that.

Now that Class VII is out of the way, they can really tell and conclude Rean's story, and Class VII will be ancillary characters that will act as more of a role of "elevated side characters" that was really done well in the Sky games (Take Kevin, who does not spend the whole game with you by any margin, yet is very important, appears during important scenes, etc.). Tightening up the story and character development and improving the quality of the writing are the three things I wanted to see in CS3, and I think that making everyone leave was the best way to approach that. Trying to forcibly continue everyone's plot threads as a group would've just made the problem worse.

Spoiler

Pretty much. Some like Emma and Millium might have unresolved plot threads, but others like Elliot and Machias are already done even in the first game, unless they'd bring in some new problems. And I surely don't want to go through the whole "recruiting Class VII" phase again after that kind of sentimental farewells in CS2.

 

[ShadowSoldier89]

I was actually gonna say the same thing.

Spoiler

A lot of Class VII have no real reasons to return in a playable capacity other than simply because they were in Class VII. A few of them, sure. But not all, at least not beyond playable for a small section.

Like I said, CS3 has so many possibilities.

I still feel the finale left

Spoiler

class 7 in a completely unsatisfactory state. Jobbing through the whole final dungeon was just awful. This group needs the opportunity to complete their story and their fight. Beyond the fact that most of the cast really does seem like they have plenty more to fight for. Alisa has a weapons company to fix which will of course run the risk of getting dragged into any shit osborne pulls, Millium has her internal struggle with her loyalty to osborne along with all the questions about her past. Laura her duty as the heir of Arseid school and of course Duvalie and the steel maiden, Jusis and whatever the fuck shit rufus is going to pull, Fie and the jaegers and the constant struggle there, Machias and his politics are still lining towards fighting considering I feel like he would want to oppose a warmongering dick like osborne, Emma with vita is pretty obvious, plus she still wants to support rean

Gaius and elliot are the only ones I could see hanging it up. Though Gaius is still considering Erebonia his second home, and the strife there is of course not over.

Add in sara and she has plenty of reason to be back in the fray.

I really dont feel any kind of satisfactory conclusion for any of these characters, so I really want them all back. At the very least give them a chance to not be bad jokes in the big fights

 

[Nyoro SF]

I was actually gonna say the same thing.

Spoiler

A lot of Class VII have no real reasons to return in a playable capacity other than simply because they were in Class VII. A few of them, sure. But not all, at least not beyond playable for a small section.

Like I said, CS3 has so many possibilities.

My post-ending theory also

Spoiler

gives Class VII more time to shine. Take an example where Rean is ordered to take down Jusis by Osborne. Now Jusis can really take the spotlight during an Act/Chapter and really show the strength of his character and his power as a noble rather than just a small section of him issuing a proclamation against his father. Just a lot of interesting ideas when a character isn't hamstrung by so many other characters or multiple plotlines taking up space in the room.

This is once again, just a desire of mine. I'm reminded of (SC spoilers)

Spoiler

where Cassius would appear periodically during the story as a military officer. It had a lot of impact every time you saw him because he's your cool dandy pops and also because his plot line is interacting with yours in an important way without taking away the main focus of Estelle investigating Ouroboros. Chapter 8 being a big highlight of this.

Hope that makes a bit of sense. Sadly I don't study literature, and I'm sure there are literary terms for what I'm trying to talk about...

I echo some of ShadowSoldier's complaints about jobbing though.

Spoiler

Pretty much. Some like Emma and Millium might have unresolved plot threads, but others like Elliot and Machias are already done even in the first game, unless they'd bring in some new problems. And I surely don't want to go through the whole "recruiting Class VII" phase again after that kind of sentimental farewells in CS2.

Agreed, that would be a really bad turn for CS3 if

Spoiler

it was just a reuniting plot again. I think if characters do come back they'll come back in real meaningful way like with Emma and her mysterious clan.

 

[Scrooge McDuck]

I still feel the finale left

Spoiler

class 7 in a completely unsatisfactory state. Jobbing through the whole final dungeon was just awful. This group needs the opportunity to complete their story and their fight. Beyond the fact that most of the cast really does seem like they have plenty more to fight for. Alisa has a weapons company to fix which will of course run the risk of getting dragged into any shit osborne pulls, Millium has her internal struggle with her loyalty to osborne along with all the questions about her past. Laura her duty as the heir of Arseid school and of course Duvalie and the steel maiden, Jusis and whatever the fuck shit rufus is going to pull, Fie and the jaegers and the constant struggle there, Machias and his politics are still lining towards fighting considering I feel like he would want to oppose a warmongering dick like osborne, Emma with vita is pretty obvious, plus she still wants to support rean

Gaius and elliot are the only ones I could see hanging it up. Though Gaius is still considering Erebonia his second home, and the strife there is of course not over.

Add in sara and she has plenty of reason to be back in the fray.

I really dont feel any kind of satisfactory conclusion for any of these characters, so I really want them all back. At the very least give them a chance to not be bad jokes in the big fights

Spoiler

I think the best way to do it is to save them for a "Class VII assemble!" last hurrah near the end of the game and make their involvement impactful instead of of making them the main party members from near the beginning and relegate their roles to glorified commentators.

[Sky SC]

Spoiler

And hopefully there'd be some significant time skip, or they'd most likely be bad jokes in the big fights. They're all the Estelles of Cold Steel. Right until the end, even after her significant improvements, Estelle is still unable to touch Joshua, the weakest of Enforcers, in mock fights.

 

[ShadowSoldier89]

Spoiler

I think the best way to do it is to save them for a "Class VII assemble!" last hurrah near the end of the game and make their involvement impactful instead of of making them the main party members from near the beginning and relegate their roles to glorified commentators.

And hopefully there'd be some significant time skip, or they'd most likely be bad jokes in the big fights. They're all the Estelles of Cold Steel. Right until the end, even after her significant improvements, Estelle is still unable to touch Joshua, the weakest of Enforcers, in mock fights.

thats definitely the last thing I want. also what!? SC spoilers

Spoiler

Joshua beat fucking Loewe 1v1

 

[Bladenic]

I still feel the finale left

Spoiler

class 7 in a completely unsatisfactory state. Jobbing through the whole final dungeon was just awful. This group needs the opportunity to complete their story and their fight. Beyond the fact that most of the cast really does seem like they have plenty more to fight for. Alisa has a weapons company to fix which will of course run the risk of getting dragged into any shit osborne pulls, Millium has her internal struggle with her loyalty to osborne along with all the questions about her past. Laura her duty as the heir of Arseid school and of course Duvalie and the steel maiden, Jusis and whatever the fuck shit rufus is going to pull, Fie and the jaegers and the constant struggle there, Machias and his politics are still lining towards fighting considering I feel like he would want to oppose a warmongering dick like osborne, Emma with vita is pretty obvious, plus she still wants to support rean

Gaius and elliot are the only ones I could see hanging it up. Though Gaius is still considering Erebonia his second home, and the strife there is of course not over.

Add in sara and she has plenty of reason to be back in the fray.

I really dont feel any kind of satisfactory conclusion for any of these characters, so I really want them all back. At the very least give them a chance to not be bad jokes in the big fights

The thing you're referring to about fights

Spoiler

is exactly what the final boss felt it was about. Hell, the boss even says "lol there's no reason to fight me" and Rean's all "nah fam we gotta at least defeat SOMETHING in this game"

 

[Scrooge McDuck]

thats definitely the last thing I want. also what!? SC spoilers

Spoiler

Joshua beat fucking Loewe 1v1

[SC]

Spoiler

After the whole party beat Loewe up. And even that, Joshua only managed to knock away his sword. That 1v1 fight ended with Joshua panting on the ground and Loewe still standing unperturbed saying "you're pretty good." If Loewe was not keen to switch side to begin with, that whole thing would definitely turn out like all the Infernal Tower fights.

 

[Novel Mike]

Spoiler

I think the best way to do it is to save them for a "Class VII assemble!" last hurrah near the end of the game and make their involvement impactful instead of of making them the main party members from near the beginning and relegate their roles to glorified commentators.

[Sky SC]

Spoiler

And hopefully there'd be some significant time skip, or they'd most likely be bad jokes in the big fights. They're all the Estelles of Cold Steel. Right until the end, even after her significant improvements, Estelle is still unable to touch Joshua, the weakest of Enforcers, in mock fights.

Hmmm on that note...

Spoiler

I don't hate the idea of C7 taking the back seat in some cases, certain characters like Eliot and Machias really don't seem to be necessary for the overall story to advance, Laura as well at least with the plot in Erebonia itself, I'd rather see them explore her family's connection to the Steel Maiden then whatever the fuck Osborne ends up doing. However I do think that come characters are more important to the story then others, Jusis because the position hes been forced into, Alisa because of Reinford, I don't think you can entirely ignore those characters until the end but it would be interesting to see what happens if Rean does decide he wants to bring the gang back together again and his friends reject him because they've gotten so involved with their new lives that they can't just abandon what they're doing just because he wants them to.

That said, what I'd like to see is several C7 characters getting the MC treatment in a chapter or two. Fie tracking down Zepher (perhaps with Sara and Toval like the ending pick showed), Alisa trying to help run the Reinford company only to find she hates it and wants to leave, Gaius perspective alone could be interesting in whatever they decide to do with him, Millium doing her missions and maybe beginning to question who and what shes doing all this for, Emma and Celine trying to track down Vita, ect.

 

[ShadowSoldier89]

The thing you're referring to about fights

Spoiler

is exactly what the final boss felt it was about. Hell, the boss even says "lol there's no reason to fight me" and Rean's all "nah fam we gotta at least defeat SOMETHING in this game"

it feels like a stepping stone, plus with all

Spoiler

the decisions of the characters at the end of the game, as well as an apparent time skip, theres so much more to go through with them. If cold steel 3 really bails on this cast for most of the game, itll make these first two games feel so hollow

Spoiler

That said, what I'd like to see is several C7 characters getting the MC treatment in a chapter or two. Fie tracking down Zepher (perhaps with Sara and Toval like the ending pick showed), Alisa trying to help run the Reinford company only to find she hates it and wants to leave, Gaius perspective alone could be interesting in whatever they decide to do with him, Millium doing her missions and maybe beginning to question who and what shes doing all this for, Emma and Celine trying to track down Vita, ect.

this is more along the lines of what I would like to see

 

[Firestar]

Spoiler

I was kinda hoping Rean would've chose to become a Bracer at the end, and then that would take him around and maybe meet and solve the other characters storylines. Maybe when they finish up they'd join him or something.

 

[Novel Mike]

it feels like a stepping stone, plus with all

Spoiler

the decisions of the characters at the end of the game, as well as an apparent time skip, theres so much more to go through with them. If cold steel 3 really bails on this cast for most of the game, itll make these first two games feel so hollow

this is more along the lines of what I would like to see

Yeah in regards to CS3...

Spoiler

If CS3 ultimately abandons C7 it would be a large kick to the nuts, as its been brought up before CS1 and 2 are basically TitS FC, if SC had been about pretty much none of the original characters I'm pretty sure the series would have never had such the positive reception it has. It would be one thing if they actually finished Class 7's story but its very clear its far from over and to ignore it would just be wrong in so many ways.

 

[Scrooge McDuck]

Hmmm on that note...

Spoiler

I don't hate the idea of C7 taking the back seat in some cases, certain characters like Eliot and Machias really don't seem to be necessary for the overall story to advance, Laura as well at least with the plot in Erebonia itself, I'd rather see them explore her family's connection to the Steel Maiden then whatever the fuck Osborne ends up doing. However I do think that come characters are more important to the story then others, Jusis because the position hes been forced into, Alisa because of Reinford, I don't think you can entirely ignore those characters until the end but it would be interesting to see what happens if Rean does decide he wants to bring the gang back together again and his friends reject him because they've gotten so involved with their new lives that they can't just abandon what they're doing just because he wants them to.

That said, what I'd like to see is several C7 characters getting the MC treatment in a chapter or two. Fie tracking down Zepher (perhaps with Sara and Toval like the ending pick showed), Alisa trying to help run the Reinford company only to find she hates it and wants to leave, Gaius perspective alone could be interesting in whatever they decide to do with him, Millium doing her missions and maybe beginning to question who and what shes doing all this for, Emma and Celine trying to track down Vita, ect.

Spoiler

Yar, I'm not saying that we should ignore them, I'm just not keen on the idea of them defaulting to the status of "Rean's entourage" early. CS2 gave me the impression that the rest of Class VII are just floundering around with no concrete plan until Rean came along and showed them the way, and I dislike that.

Make them their own characters with their own agenda which eventually align with Rean's, I say.

 

[Bladenic]

it feels like a stepping stone, plus with all

Spoiler

the decisions of the characters at the end of the game, as well as an apparent time skip, theres so much more to go through with them. If cold steel 3 really bails on this cast for most of the game, itll make these first two games feel so hollow

this is more along the lines of what I would like to see

I can see where you're coming from, but I just don't see any reason

Spoiler

some of them have to return, again, beyond just being Class VII. Eliott doesn't even want to fight. Machias truly has no purpose, his mandatory party member section felt so shoehorned since his reunion with his dad was like 3 lines (despite the fact that his dad was MIA the entire game) and more important shit happened during and after. Alisa will return because she's the heroine even though in terms of actual story significance she's far below Emma and arguably Laura and Fie too. Gaius has no reason to return. Emma is a sure thing later down the line, even as an important NPC. Laura and Fie at least have strong ties to some ancillary story events. Jusis I can see because of Rufus. Millium is fairly important although I can totally see Altina taking her part as playable. I dunno, I mean, I won't be mad if they all return as fully playable, but I would prefer new faces (in terms of playable, not necessarily new characters but that's welcome too.

As long as Elise dies, anything else is fine with me. Towa can stay gone too. Basically any 12 year old looking girl with annoying voices can disappear.

 

[ShadowSoldier89]

Spoiler

Yar, I'm not saying that we should ignore them, I'm just not keen on the idea of them defaulting to the status of "Rean's entourage" early. CS2 gave me the impression that the rest of Class VII are just floundering around with no concrete plan until Rean came along and showed them the way, and I dislike that.

Make them their own characters with their own agenda which eventually align with Rean's, I say.

that feels like where we are though

Spoiler

almost every character has issues right now that point to either ouroboros, or osborne. These line up pretty well with Rean's point in life too. Emma even has her priority AS rean alongside her issue with ouroboros. I'm curious to where they will take it and there are a lot of possibilities. I just know I wont be fully satisfied without this group being center, including sara of course. Hell with how things are going, just add in Claire and Sharon as primary characters too. Claire + Millium definitely have problems to work through, and considering they all circle around Osborne that makes Rean line up with her as well. Sharon less so as I'm kindve making the loop in my head, but if Alisa gets her fighting against Ouroboros actively...

I can see where you're coming from, but I just don't see any reason

Spoiler

some of them have to return, again, beyond just being Class VII. Eliott doesn't even want to fight. Machias truly has no purpose, his mandatory party member section felt so shoehorned since his reunion with his dad was like 3 lines (despite the fact that his dad was MIA the entire game) and more important shit happened during and after. Alisa will return because she's the heroine even though in terms of actual story significance she's far below Emma and arguably Laura and Fie too. Gaius has no reason to return. Emma is a sure thing later down the line, even as an important NPC. Laura and Fie at least have strong ties to some ancillary story events. Jusis I can see because of Rufus. Millium is fairly important although I can totally see Altina taking her part as playable. I dunno, I mean, I won't be mad if they all return as fully playable, but I would prefer new faces (in terms of playable, not necessarily new characters but that's welcome too.

As long as Elise dies, anything else is fine with me. Towa can stay gone too. Basically any 12 year old looking girl with annoying voices can disappear.

as much as I dont care about machias I feel like you are selling him short by

Spoiler

focusing on whats done for him. Sure his issues with the nobles are wrapped up and he saved his dad, but at this point hes now looking into moving into politics himself. With erebonia politics as fucked as they are and osborne back in power. Machias has a lot of growth room left and definitely something to fight for.

 

[preta]

I can see where you're coming from, but I just don't see any reason

Spoiler

some of them have to return, again, beyond just being Class VII. Eliott doesn't even want to fight. Machias truly has no purpose, his mandatory party member section felt so shoehorned since his reunion with his dad was like 3 lines (despite the fact that his dad was MIA the entire game) and more important shit happened during and after. Alisa will return because she's the heroine even though in terms of actual story significance she's far below Emma and arguably Laura and Fie too. Gaius has no reason to return. Emma is a sure thing later down the line, even as an important NPC. Laura and Fie at least have strong ties to some ancillary story events. Jusis I can see because of Rufus. Millium is fairly important although I can totally see Altina taking her part as playable. I dunno, I mean, I won't be mad if they all return as fully playable, but I would prefer new faces (in terms of playable, not necessarily new characters but that's welcome too.

As long as Elise dies, anything else is fine with me. Towa can stay gone too. Basically any 12 year old looking girl with annoying voices can disappear.

Whoa, whoa, whoa.

Spoiler

Gaius has no reason to return? He has arguably the MOST reason to return. He hasn't had his arc yet - and it's been so heavily foreshadowed in both CS1 and CS2 that I'd be shocked if he doesn't get it in CS3. The problem is that you might not notice the foreshadowing if you haven't played 3rd and Ao, or at least 3rd. I can explain if you want.

 

[Nyoro SF]

I can see where you're coming from, but I just don't see any reason

Spoiler

some of them have to return, again, beyond just being Class VII. Eliott doesn't even want to fight. Machias truly has no purpose, his mandatory party member section felt so shoehorned since his reunion with his dad was like 3 lines (despite the fact that his dad was MIA the entire game) and more important shit happened during and after. Alisa will return because she's the heroine even though in terms of actual story significance she's far below Emma and arguably Laura and Fie too. Gaius has no reason to return. Emma is a sure thing later down the line, even as an important NPC. Laura and Fie at least have strong ties to some ancillary story events. Jusis I can see because of Rufus. Millium is fairly important although I can totally see Altina taking her part as playable. I dunno, I mean, I won't be mad if they all return as fully playable, but I would prefer new faces (in terms of playable, not necessarily new characters but that's welcome too.

As long as Elise dies, anything else is fine with me. Towa can stay gone too. Basically any 12 year old looking girl with annoying voices can disappear.

(CS2 full spoilers)

Spoiler

When Vita and Altina kidnapped Elise, I was like "uh....Thanks?" Imagine how pleased I was when her kidnapping extended throughout the whole game! Hope you enjoyed your vacation where I didn't have to listen to you Elise. Then right after we reunite we ditch her to climb the castle. lol

 

[Bladenic]

Whoa, whoa, whoa.

Spoiler

Gaius has no reason to return? Outside of perhaps Emma, he has the MOST reason to return. He hasn't had his arc yet - and it's been so heavily foreshadowed in both CS1 and CS2 that I'd be shocked if he doesn't get it in CS3. The problem is that you might not notice the foreshadowing if you haven't played 3rd and Ao, or at least 3rd. I can explain if you want.

Well I like Gaius so I hope he serves purpose. That

Spoiler

sidequest with some priest dude seems to imply something will happen with the priest and Gaius and Sara both are connected, so that could be something.

 

[Scrooge McDuck]

that feels like where we are though

Spoiler

almost every character has issues right now that point to either ouroboros, or osborne. These line up pretty well with Rean's point in life too. Emma even has her priority AS rean alongside her issue with ouroboros. I'm curious to where they will take it and there are a lot of possibilities. I just know I wont be fully satisfied without this group being center, including sara of course. Hell with how things are going, just add in Claire and Sharon as primary characters too. Claire + Millium definitely have problems to work through, and considering they all circle around Osborne that makes Rean line up with her as well. Sharon less so as I'm kindve making the loop in my head, but if Alisa gets her fighting against Ouroboros actively...

Even if they all had common enemies, they might have different ideas of how to tackle the problem. I mean, [Sky SC]

Spoiler

Trails in the Sky is the story revolving around Estelle and Joshua, and both want to bring down Ouroboros. Yet in SC Joshua does his own things and doesn't join the party until well into the second part of the game.

[CS II]

Spoiler

Like, maybe someone in Jusis's would think that managing his region is the best way to oppose Osborne. It could still be a story about Jusis, and he could still play important roles. I just don't think that him tagging along with Rean everywhere is the best way to do that.

 

[ShadowSoldier89]

Even if they all had common enemies, they might have different ideas of how to tackle the problem. I mean, [Sky SC]

Spoiler

Trails in the Sky is the story revolving around Estelle and Joshua, and both want to bring down Ouroboros. Yet in SC Joshua does his own things and doesn't join the party until well into the second part of the game.

[CS II]

Spoiler

Like, maybe someone in Jusis's would think that managing his region is the best way to oppose Osborne. It could still be a story about Jusis, and he could still play important roles. I just don't think that him tagging along with Rean everywhere is the best way to do that.

but she still manages together together....everyone else rather quickly

I'm not thinking they need to make the basis of the story gather up class vii again like the first act here, however making that happen anyway and more organically without doing some random final chapter thing

Spoiler

like they did with the guest characters here

would be what I want to see to feel a satisfying continuation of this sub series.

 

[Bladenic]

The final boss music might be my favorite final boss theme in a long time. I think it's a big part of why I felt emotional. So perfect. Even the title (To The Glorious Future).

https://youtu.be/Uf3yFLySTl8

Probably my second favorite Falcom final boss theme, right after the Zwei!! final boss theme.

 

[preta]

Well I like Gaius so I hope he serves purpose. That

Spoiler

sidequest with some priest dude seems to imply something will happen with the priest and Gaius and Sara both are connected, so that could be something.

It's not so much that (only CS1 and CS2 spoilers)

Spoiler

Gaius and Sara are connected. We know who that priest (the one who taught him) is, however.* It goes even deeper than that, though. Notice that Gaius often reacts differently to things of a "spiritual" nature. For instance, he is the first party member to react to the spiritual barrier appearing at the gate of the Infernal Castle, and he does so before it is even visible to the others. And in CS1, after the battle against Nosferatu, while weakened, he is not affected by Nosferatu's binding powers, unlike everyone else in the party (including even Airgetlam).

*The NG+ quest briefly mentions this.

 

[Bladenic]

It's not so much that (only CS1 and CS2 spoilers)

Spoiler

Gaius and Sara are connected. We know who that priest (the one who taught him) is, however.* It goes even deeper than that, though. Notice that Gaius often reacts differently to things of a "spiritual" nature. For instance, he is the first party member to react to the spiritual barrier appearing at the gate of the Infernal Castle, and he does so before it is even visible to the others. And in CS1, after the battle against Nosferatu, while weakened, he is not affected by Nosferatu's binding powers, unlike everyone else in the party (including even Airgetlam).

*The NG+ quest briefly mentions this.

Oh that CS1 bit is interesting, never noticed. I just thought it was because the wind is his waifu for the other point lmao

 

[ShadowSoldier89]

Oh that CS1 bit is interesting, never noticed. I just thought it was because the wind is his waifu for the other point lmao

I noticed it but thought it was a bug lol

 

[preta]

Oh that CS1 bit is interesting, never noticed. I just thought it was because the wind is his waifu for the other point lmao

Suffice to say, we have plenty of reason to believe he will have a significant role in CS3. I'd have to go into 3rd stuff to explain any more than this.

 

[SatelliteOfLove]

All of this is end game spoilers (FC, SC, CS1, CS2)

I was actually gonna say the same thing.

Spoiler

A lot of Class VII have no real reasons to return in a playable capacity other than simply because they were in Class VII. A few of them, sure. But not all, at least not beyond playable for a small section.

Like I said, CS3 has so many possibilities.

Spoiler

Yeah, Fie, Millium, Laura, Jusis, Emma, Sara, and arguably Alisa had reason to leave, but that remainder not staying behind (Machias, Elliott, and Gaius) puts Rean staying behind without any of them (does he take normal classes now?) does paint him hopefully into some situations beyond the occasional involvement with the Intelligence and RMP folks we know.

The thing you're referring to about fights

Spoiler

is exactly what the final boss felt it was about. Hell, the boss even says "lol there's no reason to fight me" and Rean's all "nah fam we gotta at least defeat SOMETHING in this game"

ahahahahahaha

Spoiler

I was kinda hoping Rean would've chose to become a Bracer at the end, and then that would take him around and maybe meet and solve the other characters storylines. Maybe when they finish up they'd join him or something.

Spoiler

Toval: So you wanna join us as a Bracer? I know we're in some deep shit right now cuz Ozzy's back so you'd have to leave Ere...

Rean: You just wanna demon-powered guy with a cool mech on your side!

Spoiler

But yah, that could be one way. He will DEFINATELY not be onboard for Ozzy's less clean shenanigans. That is, of course, if his characterization doesn't undergo another hibernation...

Man. Think of the in media res of a CS3 where he took up that offer and it's Jr. Bracers Fie and Rean under Sara and Toval's tutelage doin' Bracer shit. Aww yisssssssss

Spoiler

They all willfully dropped out. It's subtly stated throughout the main story conversation and explicitly expounded by NPC conversations.

And it's obviously there so Rean would lose all his emotional supports and become the main villain in the next game. Not really, but still.

Spoiler

This too would work. I liked the taste of that we got...

 

[bishopcruz]

Jesus, I need to finish the epilogue, this whole page is spoilers.

I'm getting back to it, but I'm just pausing from playing right now to say, you guys were right about Tauros.

In the final dungeon:

Laura + Domination + Lvl 4 Tauros + 50% STR + overdrive + Radiant Lion = 313K damage. I nearly one shotted

Spoiler

the wolf cryptid in the final dungeon.

Holy crap that was a lot of damage.

 

[ChickenHunter]

NG+ Question

Spoiler

Do i get to keep the Phantasmal Mirror things and use them from the start?

edit: Nevermind, I can't read.

 

[SatelliteOfLove]

Oh man, stuff happening hot and fast in here.

I can see where you're coming from, but I just don't see any reason

Spoiler

some of them have to return, again, beyond just being Class VII. Eliott doesn't even want to fight. Machias truly has no purpose, his mandatory party member section felt so shoehorned since his reunion with his dad was like 3 lines (despite the fact that his dad was MIA the entire game) and more important shit happened during and after. Alisa will return because she's the heroine even though in terms of actual story significance she's far below Emma and arguably Laura and Fie too. Gaius has no reason to return. Emma is a sure thing later down the line, even as an important NPC. Laura and Fie at least have strong ties to some ancillary story events. Jusis I can see because of Rufus. Millium is fairly important although I can totally see Altina taking her part as playable. I dunno, I mean, I won't be mad if they all return as fully playable, but I would prefer new faces (in terms of playable, not necessarily new characters but that's welcome too.

As long as Elise dies, anything else is fine with me. Towa can stay gone too. Basically any 12 year old looking girl with annoying voices can disappear.

Spoiler

No joy over Altina dying too?

Even if they all had common enemies, they might have different ideas of how to tackle the problem. I mean, [Sky SC]

Spoiler

Trails in the Sky is the story revolving around Estelle and Joshua, and both want to bring down Ouroboros. Yet in SC Joshua does his own things and doesn't join the party until well into the second part of the game.

[CS II]

Spoiler

Like, maybe someone in Jusis's would think that managing his region is the best way to oppose Osborne. It could still be a story about Jusis, and he could still play important roles. I just don't think that him tagging along with Rean everywhere is the best way to do that.

Spoiler

He had one of the best plotlines in the game, and how things settled in 2 makes his role in 3 just as interesting. I can't wait.

But yeah, he's the power in Kreuzen now. His brother probably made it so, with all that entails. Good times.

but she still manages together together....everyone else rather quickly

I'm not thinking they need to make the basis of the story gather up class vii again like the first act here, however making that happen anyway and more organically without doing some random final chapter thing

Spoiler

like they did with the guest characters here

would be what I want to see to feel a satisfying continuation of this sub series.

Spoiler

That's one of Estelle's powers (along with Snark): drawing people to her

It's not so much that (only CS1 and CS2 spoilers)

Spoiler

Gaius and Sara are connected. We know who that priest (the one who taught him) is, however.* It goes even deeper than that, though. Notice that Gaius often reacts differently to things of a "spiritual" nature. For instance, he is the first party member to react to the spiritual barrier appearing at the gate of the Infernal Castle, and he does so before it is even visible to the others. And in CS1, after the battle against Nosferatu, while weakened, he is not affected by Nosferatu's binding powers, unlike everyone else in the party (including even Airgetlam).

*The NG+ quest briefly mentions this.

OH REALLY.

Spoiler

We go to Anime Kyrgyzstan three times for plot reasons and he's there a ton and we get no conversation between him and Emma and/or Celine about this? Or Sara about *stuff I'll find out next year* except this? That shoulda happened alot more often.

 

[Scrooge McDuck]

Spoiler

We go to Anime Kyrgyzstan three times for plot reasons and he's there a ton and we get no conversation between him and Emma and/or Celine about this? Or Sara about *stuff I'll find out next year* except this? That shoulda happened alot more often.

This is a big part why I really want Class VII to spread their wings more without Rean in the periphery. I'm pretty certain that the longest private conversation in CS2 ever held by non-Rean Class VII members was

Spoiler

between Elliot and Fie during their introduction. And what they talked about was Rean, anyway.

 

[Bladenic]

Oh man, stuff happening hot and fast in here.

Spoiler

No joy over Altina dying too?

Spoiler

He had one of the best plotlines in the game, and how things settled in 2 makes his role in 3 just as interesting. I can't wait.

But yeah, he's the power in Kreuzen now. His brother probably made it so, with all that entails. Good times.

Spoiler

That's one of Estelle's powers (along with Snark): drawing people to her

OH REALLY.

Spoiler

We go to Anime Kyrgyzstan three times for plot reasons and he's there a ton and we get no conversation between him and Emma and/or Celine about this? Or Sara about *stuff I'll find out next year* except this? That shoulda happened alot more often.

I don't mind her minus the sexualized outfit. Ugh Japan.

Also, regarding Gaius,

Spoiler

does Gaius ever say anything about that general dude that's from Nord? I don't recall Gaius mentioning anything about him (maybe my memory is failing me), despite the dude not seeming that old and there's only one tribe in Nord anyway lmao.

 

[Scrooge McDuck]

I don't mind her minus the sexualized outfit. Ugh Japan.

Also, regarding Gaius,

Spoiler

does Gaius ever say anything about that general dude that's from Nord? I don't recall Gaius mentioning anything about him (maybe my memory is failing me), despite the dude not seeming that old and there's only one tribe in Nord anyway lmao.

Wallace Bardias?

Spoiler

He's not from Nord. He's just presumed to have Nord blood due to his height and tanned skin. If you brought Gaius to Legram he'd make a comment that maybe Bardias is a descendant of the Nord warriors who helped Dreichels way back when.

 

[Bladenic]

Wallace Bardias?

Spoiler

He's not from Nord. He's just presumed to have Nord blood due to his height and tanned skin. If you brought Gaius to Legram he'd make a comment that maybe Bardias is a descendant of the Nord warriors who helped Dreichels way back when.

Ohhhh gotcha, I thought he was for sure due to those reasons. I hope he and the other woman appear in larger

Spoiler

fightable roles

in CS3. He could've been a good rival to Gaius.

Also (late game spoilers)

Spoiler

Emma has an interesting exchange with McBurn if she's in the party before the fight. Can't wait to see what that's about.

 

[preta]

Ohhhh gotcha, I thought he was for sure due to those reasons. I hope he and the other woman appear in larger

Spoiler

fightable roles

in CS3. He could've been a good rival to Gaius.

Also (late game spoilers)

Spoiler

Emma has an interesting exchange with McBurn if she's in the party before the fight. Can't wait to see what that's about.

If you've played SC, you have all the other info about the

Spoiler

Emma and McBurn

scene already.

Spoiler

The scene where Rean uses Spirit Unification in Valimar to cut through the spirit barrier to the Infernal Castle reminds me a LOT of the scene in SC where Loewe cuts through Weissmann's barrier with Kernviter.

Kernviter was forged through Divergent Laws, and McBurn's power, which is established as being similar to Rean's, is also based in Divergent Laws... So it seems highly likely that Rean's power is as well.

 

[Cornbread78]

A whole page of black bars, lol. You guys need to slow down!

 

[CSX]

Spoiler

I was kinda hoping Rean would've chose to become a Bracer at the end, and then that would take him around and maybe meet and solve the other characters storylines. Maybe when they finish up they'd join him or something.

I'm calling this to happen at the end of CS3 lol

 

[AledyHauser]

Just a quick heads up from xseed facebook update
The dlc is coming along at the end of this month so
Expect next tue or around if you're holding up to get them

 

[Phenomic]

So while I get we have more going on. Does anyone else feel conflicted after the end of this? I haven't completely done the Epilogue yet, but...

OBVIOUS SPOILERS START HERE

Spoiler

So the dudes alive and now hes going to try to presumably take over Crossbell and god knows where. I guess I kind of didn't expect Rean to just be like... Oh yeah, I'm good with all of this....time to just go work for the government who isn't any better than the last sect of people fighting a war and taking over free nation states like it's no big deal. It's almost like none of them are standing up for anything that I would think any of them would actually want to do and I just spent the last 120 hours of my life on two games where the characters apparently learned absolutely nothing. It almost feels like none of these characters actually care what happens aside from their own lives. Crow killing him in the first place is a big deal to essentially just go. Come back home buddy you're clearly not a wanted dangerous murderer.


Now I also kind of get that while this might not be currently plausible because going up against The Chancellor, Rufus, Claire, Fake Adol (lol) and who knows what else. But it also seems like its not playing the moral ambiguity well. These games should be at a point where we're fighting against all odds and coming out on top. These kids have been through a lot of stuff and taken on way more than they already should be able too. Why couldn't they just continue down that path?

I hope there is just more too it than this. I really would like to see a game where they essentially like others have stated turned into Bracers and maybe even just maybe team up with Barrings and whoever else thinks "peaceful" talks would be the best way to go forward in this world.

Also, I have no clue who's actually evil anymore. Ouroboros seemed always like an evil society, but pssh ... now with the Chancellor back in. They don't even seem like they want to cause harm to the world. None of them are ever any good at it seemingly anyway. Just running around doing whatever they want serving people tea and running away from fights because their not challenging enough.

 

[Scrooge McDuck]

So while I get we have more going on. Does anyone else feel conflicted after the end of this? I haven't completely done the Epilogue yet, but...

OBVIOUS SPOILERS START HERE

[spoiler snip]

If you haven't finished it, all I can say is keep playing while keeping in mind what each of these kids were fighting for to begin with.

 

[aravuus]

-Pacing is super wonky. I love the world building, but the way it's presented for almost 60% of every game is a little TOO slow. I mean, most books are more "exciting" (and I use that term loosely) than the beginning half or so of any Trails game. Even when important things are happening, they're often interrupted by a fetch quest or something similar. Granted, the beginning of this game feels better paced than Sky SC's Enforcer gallery.

-Overly saccharine writing. I get it, we are all friends and no, you will not go to *Place* by yourself because we are always with you, you big dummy. This also results in severe lack of serious consequences when major world breaking stuff is supposed to be going on.

Guess we're just gonna have to accept that these two are and will be series staples, now and forever. The latter point is a shame especially, as Trails games seem particularly 'bad' about it even compared to many other JRPGs, and I'm not fond of this stuff. They're still good games, but at this rate none of them will ever reach my 'omg top forever' lists.

I still remember someone comparing TiTS to Berserk, of all things. Still makes me laugh.

A whole page of black bars, lol. You guys need to slow down!

This is why I made the spoiler thread, but nobody wanted to use it

Status quo and all that I guess.

 

[SolVanderlyn]

Wow this page is just

I need to beat this game, and pronto.

Guess we're just gonna have to accept that these two are and will be series staples, now and forever. The latter point is a shame especially, as Trails games seem particularly 'bad' about it even compared to many other JRPGs, and I'm not fond of this stuff. They're still good games, but at this rate none of them will ever reach my 'omg top forever' lists.

I still remember someone comparing TiTS to Berserk, of all things. Still makes me laugh.



This is why I made the spoiler thread, but nobody wanted to use it

Status quo and all that I guess.

Yeah, it's frustrating, especially when the writing is quite good otherwise.

 

[Gu4n]

Guess we're just gonna have to accept that these two are and will be series staples, now and forever. The latter point is a shame especially, as Trails games seem particularly 'bad' about it even compared to many other JRPGs, and I'm not fond of this stuff. They're still good games, but at this rate none of them will ever reach my 'omg top forever' lists.

I repeat my earlier argument that the narrative creativity suffered under the demanding transition from 2D to 3D. Neither Zero nor Ao suffered from the wonky pacing and overly saccharine writing; the games were tightly designed, calculated in both systems and narrative and highly compelling as a result. For CS1 and 2, Falcom look at the formula that worked previously, but couldn't reach their goal in time, scrapped content and and moved that content to the second game, padded it with additional content to justify its existence. This results in CS1 and CS2 to take a lot of themes and ideas from FC and SC, which in turn took a lot of ideas from the Gagharv trilogy.

 

[psynergylover]

ll these spoilers tags and I'm only on act 2


but Rean in dat interlude tho!!!!!

 

[bishopcruz]

I repeat my earlier argument that the narrative creativity suffered under the demanding transition from 2D to 3D. Neither Zero nor Ao suffered from the wonky pacing and overly saccharine writing; the games were tightly designed, calculated in both systems and narrative and highly compelling as a result. For CS1 and 2, Falcom look at the formula that worked previously, but couldn't reach their goal in time, scrapped content and and moved that content to the second game, padded it with additional content to justify its existence. This results in CS1 and CS2 to take a lot of themes and ideas from FC and SC, which in turn took a lot of ideas from the Gagharv trilogy.

I'm kinda curious as to what the original outline was. and what was expanded in both games in order to make it work with the new system. I don't see how it could have been one game, and still be workable, unless there was a lot of mixing of events and areas. You would have had to cut like 40% of the content from both games at least and the structure of both halves is just really damned different.

Pacing wise there are issues, but honestly at least a fair bit of it seems to be deliberate. A lot of it has to do with the novel like pacing. In many ways the pacing is similar to a VN with loads to world building an plot buildup, mixed with bouts of resolution. The buildup and resolution are great, and the world building is actually the game's biggest strength, but it also means that you're going to have this slow pacing.

Of course not having played Zero/Ao, I can't speak to what they might have done better.

 

[SolVanderlyn]

I'm kinda curious as to what the original outline was. and what was expanded in both games in order to make it work with the new system. I don't see how it could have been one game, and still be workable, unless there was a lot of mixing of events and areas. You would have had to cut like 40% of the content from both games at least and the structure of both halves is just really damned different.

Pacing wise there are issues, but honestly at least a fair bit of it seems to be deliberate. A lot of it has to do with the novel like pacing. In many ways the pacing is similar to a VN with loads to world building an plot buildup, mixed with bouts of resolution. The buildup and resolution are great, and the world building is actually the game's biggest strength, but it also means that you're going to have this slow pacing.

Of course not having played Zero/Ao, I can't speak to what they might have done better.

I think Trails does world building amazingly well. The problem, for me, is in how they present it to the player. In both the Sky and Cold Steel duologies (not counting 3rd) there is a formula that is as follows:

-These are the characters you play as. They are new to the world, and a rookie bracer/student.
-These are the super powerful big players in the world. You aspire to be like them.
-Go around and learn about the world. Be reminded you are a fish in a pond by having the more capable characters frequently show up and make you aware of how far the lead characters have to go.
-Once all areas have been visited, the plot REALLY begins.
-Massive, no holds barred end sequence.
-Rinse everything from Game 1. Game 2 now has you repeat Game 1, but you're capable of standing with the big leagues now.

The major issue with this is that the beginning and middle parts feel like you are going around and reading books about the country. It's not even masked a little bit - in Cold Steel you are on literal field studies to learn about the country. There are much more organic ways to introduce the player to the world than having them basically research it before things happen.

 

[LordGorchnik]

Enough spoiler talk.

Where in the world can I grind the "cancel 100 enemy arts trophy?"

I kill things pretty easy now that I am in new game+. I can only imagine a strategy at this point would be to equip the weakest weapons on my chars along with Impede 1 & 2 and hope for the best.

Any good spot?

 

[Bladenic]

Enough spoiler talk.

Where in the world can I grind the "cancel 100 enemy arts trophy?"

I kill things pretty easy now that I am in new game+. I can only imagine a strategy at this point would be to equip the weakest weapons on my chars along with Impede 1 & 2 and hope for the best.

Any good spot?

I imagine the training rooms on the ship would be really good.

 

[Sitrus]

I think Trails does world building amazingly well. The problem, for me, is in how they present it to the player. In both the Sky and Cold Steel duologies (not counting 3rd) there is a formula that is as follows:

-These are the characters you play as. They are new to the world, and a rookie bracer/student.
-These are the super powerful big players in the world. You aspire to be like them.
-Go around and learn about the world. Be reminded you are a fish in a pond by having the more capable characters frequently show up and make you aware of how far the lead characters have to go.
-Once all areas have been visited, the plot REALLY begins.
-Massive, no holds barred end sequence.
-Rinse everything from Game 1. Game 2 now has you repeat Game 1, but you're capable of standing with the big leagues now.

The major issue with this is that the beginning and middle parts feel like you are going around and reading books about the country. It's not even masked a little bit - in Cold Steel you are on literal field studies to learn about the country. There are much more organic ways to introduce the player to the world than having them basically research it before things happen.

I'll post some of my thoughts to why the Crossbell arc is among the greatest in the series in the Kiseki thread to avoid going offtopic here

 

[Cornbread78]

Enough spoiler talk.

Where in the world can I grind the "cancel 100 enemy arts trophy?"

I kill things pretty easy now that I am in new game+. I can only imagine a strategy at this point would be to equip the weakest weapons on my chars along with Impede 1 & 2 and hope for the best.

Any good spot?

I just tried this on those slines that cast magic, but you only get credit when you impede them and not kill them.... I said forget it..

 

[Cornbread78]

About the boss battle after the scene in Bareahard 1-3:

So, I just got destroyed by

Spoiler

Duvalie and McBurn.

Is there any point to restarting the game and trying again if you get completely destroyed? I really want those three AP, but is it worth it?