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[ScatheZombie]

To be fair, Popularity does not mean quality, or the Oscars would look a lot different.

Popularity is generally not a measure of quality. It's perfectly acceptable not to include games with great popularity.

This list isn't based on quality though. It's just a list of shit they liked playing. Which you'd think would align somewhat with popularity, since people liking those things is what makes them popular in the first place.

That's where most of the objections are coming from, I think. This is like... the laziest fucking "Best of" list ever. There's no criteria, there's no research, there's no actual work being done by the authors. A bunch of dudes sat in a room and threw out games they remembered liking and organized them by arbitrary number. It's not setting up any discussion other than "Well, your opinion is wrong."

I think people just expect more than some random GAF user "I like these things" list from a major media outlet. Because there's basically zero difference between this and any other forum thread making arbitrary lists with no effort being put into them.

EDIT: On top of all that, you'd think a list of best PC games to play right now would put some sort of emphasis on service-based games that currently have healthy communities since if you don't play them literally right now, you won't get the same experience 6 months to a year from now when people potentially move on to the next big thing.

 

[BlindJesus]

What I don't get is why you guys don't just admit that you like that the game lacks POC or something insidious and call it a day, because I'm also tired of having this dumbass little argument with people grasping at the straws as to why the game is allowed to be all-white, or how conveniently white is "Not t he proper way to classifying people" when in most of the world that's how censuses are collected. Just annoying.

This "dumbass little argument" was started by YOU. It's almost like you stir shit up, have people correct you and now its all of a sudden it's about people defending a white-only game. It just makes sense that an all-polish studio, in a country that is 98.5% white, makes a game that reflects their environment and reflects the mythology and book it is based off of. It's fantasy with different sub-human species, maybe adding an alternative skin color to default humans wouldn't add anything significant to a story about how devastating war poisons the region and the inevitable doom by dimension hopping creatures. It's a non-issue in everywhere besides America, it's like getting mad at a Japanese developer when they don't include hispanic folk in a game based in Japan.

 

[Surfinn]

Oh right, and in Polish Folklore, were ALL the women mostly dressed like supermodels, with all of them being conventionally attractive with nice bodies?

This is the problem I have with The Witcher. The story/interactions are always filled with "here is a badass guy (Geralt), let's show you how cool he sounds, how brave he is and how feared he can be" without actually letting the character development speak for itself. All women seem to be extravagantly attractive and sexualized (ie here comes a camera shot from the bottom up as Geralt walks through the door.. wow look at that ass!).

The story/writing/universe reminds me of those 90s PC games that were so over the top/forced/terribly written you just have to ignore it and move on in hopes that the gameplay will cover it up.

In all honesty, of all places, I'm REALLY surprised The Witcher doesn't get more criticism that it does in terms of tropes/stereotypes/sexualization of both men and (ESPECIALLY) women here on NeoGAF.

It's like you can't even walk into a room without a young woman bending over or leaning up against the counter waiting for your first move. Really, really distracting stuff that pushed me away from the series, even when I tried playing the first game in the series, YEARS ago.

I'll honestly never understand the fascination with this universe..

 

[inm8num2]

Would love to see these lists. I'm sure they are archived somewhere on Tumblr.

Found a couple different sources.

May 1997 (original write-ups on that page if anyone's curious):

1. Tie-Fighter Collector's CD-ROM - LucasArts
2. Doom - id Software
3. WarCraft II - Blizzard
4. Civilization II - Microprose
5. System Shock - Origin
6. Heroes of Might & Magic II - New World Computing
7. X-COM: UFO Defense - Microprose
8. Command & Conquer: Red Alert - Virgin/Westwood Studios
9. Links LS - Access
10. AH-64D Longbow - Jane's Combat Simulations
11. Sam & Max Hit the Road - LucasArts
12. Red Baron - Sierra/Dynamix
13. Panzer General - SSI
14. Tomb Raider - Eidos Interactive
15. Quake - id Software
16. Duke Nukem 3D - 3D Realms
17. EF2000 - Ocean of America
18. Descent - Interplay
19. Gabriel Knight: Sins of the Fathers - Sierra
20. Ultima Underworld I & II - Origin Systems
21. Populous - Electronic Arts
22. Alone in the Dark - I-Motion
23. Virtual Pool - Interplay
24. Beavis & Butt-Head in Virtual Stupidity - Viacom New Media
25. Syndicate - Bullfrog
26. Chuck Yeager's Air Combat - Electronic Arts
27. NHL '97 - Electronic Arts
28. The Complete Ultima VII - Origin
29. Railroad Tycoon - MicroProse
30. Lemmings - Psygnosis
31. Harpoon II - Three-Sixty Pacific
32. Wing Commander: The Kilrathi Saga - Origin
33. Star Control II - Accolade
34. Master of Orion - MicroProse
35. Monkey Island II: LeChuck's Revenge - LucasArts
36. Triple Play 97 - Electronic Arts
37. D/Generation - Mindscape
38. SimCity 2000 - Maxis
39. Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis - LucasArts
40. Speedball 2: Brutal Deluxe - The Bitmap Brothers
41. Diablo - Blizzard Entertainment
42. Front Page Sports: Football Pro - Sierra
43. Might & Magic III: The Isles of Terra - New World Computing
44. Silent Hunter - SSI
45. V for Victory Series - Three-Sixty Pacific
46. Close Combat - Microsoft
47. Star Trail: Realms of Arkania - Sir-Tech
48. Tony LaRussa Baseball 3 - Storm Front Studios
49. Pro Pinball: The Web - Empire/Interplay
50. The Elder Scrolls: Daggerfall - Bethesda Softworks

October 1998:

1. Jedi Knight: Dark Forces II
2. Civilization II
3. Quake II
4. Star Wars: TIE Fighter Collector's CD-ROM
5. Starcraft
6. System Shock
7. Heroes of Might and Magic II: The Succession Wars
8. X-COM: UFO Defense
9. Warcraft II: Tides of Darkness
10. Sam & Max Hit the Road
11. Links LS '98
12. Jane's Longbow 2
13. Unreal
14. Command & Conquer: Red Alert
15. Panzer General II
16. Battlezone (1998 remake)
17. NHL 98
18. Ultima Underworld I & II
19. Myth
20. Red Baron
21. Lemmings
22. Alone in the Dark
23. Chuck Yeager's Air Combat
24. Beavis and Butt-head in Virtual Stupidity
25. Railroad Tycoon
26. Interstate '76
27. The Beast Within: A Gabriel Knight Mystery
28. Quake
29. Duke Nukem 3D
30. Worms 2
31. EF2000 v2.0
32. Might and Magic VI: The Mandate of Heaven
33. The Curse of Monkey Island
34. Doom
35. SimCity 2000
36. Starflight
37. The Complete Ultima VII
38. D/Generation
39. Triple Play 97
40. Speedball 2: Brutal Deluxe
41. Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis
42. Diablo
43. Close Combat: A Bridge Too Far
44. Betrayal at Krondor
45. Master of Orion
46. Front Page Sports: Football Pro
47. Tomb Raider
48. You Don't Know Jack
49. Pro Pinball: Timeshock!
50. The Operational Art of War, Vol. 1,1939-1955

The only games on the new list and one of the old lists are C&C: Red Alert (1997, 1998) and The Curse of Monkey Island (1998). Doom was on both older lists, but Doom II seems a more common pick for modern all-time lists. Many of the older games also have spiritual representation through their modern successors or sequels.

 

[Oblivion]

Top 10

Spoiler

10. Skyrim

Spoiler

9. GTA V

Spoiler

8. Rocket League

Spoiler

7. Portal

Spoiler

6. Metal Gear Solid V

Spoiler

5. Dishonored

Spoiler

4. Mass Effect 2

Spoiler

3. Half-Life 2

Spoiler

2. Dark Souls

Spoiler

1. The Witcher 3

But...all these games were on consoles too (and in many cases, first).

 

[n0razi]

Open world games..


Thought Minecraft would be on it for sure

 

[NamelessMonk]

This "dumbass little argument" was started by YOU. It's almost like you stir shit up, have people correct you and now its all of a sudden it's about people defending a white-only game. It just makes sense that an all-polish studio, in a country that is 98.5% white, makes a game that reflects their environment and reflects the mythology and book it is based off of. It's fantasy with different sub-human species, maybe adding an alternative skin color to default humans wouldn't add anything significant to a story about how devastating war poisons the region and the inevitable doom by dimension hopping creatures. It's a non-issue in everywhere besides America, it's like getting mad at a Japanese developer when they don't include hispanic folk in a game based in Japan.

lmfao. Let's count:

1. I just was wondering why people liked the game and then corrected people as to why the game has to be all white.

2. "It's not non-factor everywhere but America" K because America's the only nation in the world with non-White people.

3. "Getting mad at Japanese developers when they don't include Hispanic folk in a game based in japan". Lmfao I can't. The Japanese/Asians have a different relationship with Hispanics than Whites and Other groups of people do, namely that Whites have a clear history of pushing into and colonizing other countries where the Japanese have basically just been isolated until really recently. In most white countries, there is a higher chance of you seeing a POC on TV than there is in Japan, because in Japan other than other Asians there aren't any.

And despite this, a lot of popular and recent anime still include other people of colour and/or white people in their cast (FMA, Hunter x Hunter, Naruto, Bleach. They're also the most popular series, what a coincidence.) Japan is almsot 100 percent Asian. Please explain how they can do it but this "Small polish studio" can't. Acting like they're isolated from the greater world around them, and are trapped in a cave or some shit.

They CAN. They just didn't WANT TO. And because they decided to IGNORE ME as a demographic, I don't need to be buying the damn game.

Once again, my original post i Just said I didn't get/under why people loved the game so much, and gave it 10s/10s and shit, when it has such glaring issues. Y'all are the ones making this a big issue because you're offended that I don't like a game with no Black people in it. And I'm not going to start on the women issue. Oh wait, I guess it's ok for them to portray women like that, because it's "Polish Mythology" even though I already broke it down why that argument is bullshit.

 

[His Majesty]

Lmfao I can't. The Japanese/Asians have a different relationship with Hispanics than Whites and Other groups of people do, namely that Whites have a clear history of pushing into and colonizing other countries where the Japanese have basically just been isolated until really recently.

Stop projecting your American values of diversity on Europe, please. Also, please recognize the unique cultural identity of the Polish people instead of lumping all of Europe together with white Americans. It shows a complete lack of respect towards a nation and people that has suffered immensely these last few centuries.

Poland has no history of colonization or pushing into other countries, quite the contrary. Poland has been partitioned and annexed so many times they stopped counting.

They CAN. They just didn't WANT TO. And because they decided to IGNORE ME as a demographic, I don't need to be buying the damn game.

The Witcher 1 featured a dark skinned Zerrikanian mage and Hearts of Stone has the Ofieri people. The Northern Kingdoms are simply a very homogeneous area. Just like Poland. So their decision makes a lot of sense in that regard.

If you look at Cyberpunk 2077 for example you see much more people of colour because its society is much more multicultural.

And I'm not going to start on the women issue. Oh wait, I guess it's ok for them to portray women like that, because it's "Polish Mythology" even though I already broke it down why that argument is bullshit.

Richard Cobbett from RockPaperShotgun wrote an excellent piece on how The Witcher 3 does female representation largely right. It's not perfect but it's great to see how well written characters like Yennefer, Ciri, Cerys, Shani, etc. are.

 

[JayEH]

No. 6

Laughed too because it's too low.

 

[Mutagenic]

I genuinely to this day enjoy more games on those older lists.

 

[Nere]

lmfao. Let's count:

1. I just was wondering why people liked the game and then corrected people as to why the game has to be all white.

2. "It's not non-factor everywhere but America" K because America's the only nation in the world with non-White people.

3. "Getting mad at Japanese developers when they don't include Hispanic folk in a game based in japan". Lmfao I can't. The Japanese/Asians have a different relationship with Hispanics than Whites and Other groups of people do, namely that Whites have a clear history of pushing into and colonizing other countries where the Japanese have basically just been isolated until really recently. In most white countries, there is a higher chance of you seeing a POC on TV than there is in Japan, because in Japan other than other Asians there aren't any.

And despite this, a lot of popular and recent anime still include other people of colour and/or white people in their cast (FMA, Hunter x Hunter, Naruto, Bleach. They're also the most popular series, what a coincidence.) Japan is almsot 100 percent Asian. Please explain how they can do it but this "Small polish studio" can't. Acting like they're isolated from the greater world around them, and are trapped in a cave or some shit.

They CAN. They just didn't WANT TO. And because they decided to IGNORE ME as a demographic, I don't need to be buying the damn game.

Once again, my original post i Just said I didn't get/under why people loved the game so much, and gave it 10s/10s and shit, when it has such glaring issues. Y'all are the ones making this a big issue because you're offended that I don't like a game with no Black people in it. And I'm not going to start on the women issue. Oh wait, I guess it's ok for them to portray women like that, because it's "Polish Mythology" even though I already broke it down why that argument is bullshit.

Why do you bring the race card into this? So far you haven't judged the game's gameplay, story or anything, you know things that actually make games good or bad. You just see it with your American glasses. The game is excellent and deserves the 1st spot deal with it.

 

[NamelessMonk]

Why do you bring the race card into this? So far you haven't judged the game's gameplay, story or anything, you know things that actually make games good or bad. You just see it with your American glasses. The game is excellent and deserves the 1st spot deal with it.

Did you miss my original post where I criticized the gameplay and story elements too? And I'm not American (Canadian). Even if it wasn't, the devs can scream "POLAND POLAND POLAND"all you want, but they didn't release it to a Polish audience. They released it to an INTERNATIONAL one, so we have the right to criticize. Also, I love it. Apparently it's not fair to criticize something on it's lack of inclusiveness? It's 2016.

I think it's sort of cute actually how many people are focusing on my racial and sexual criticism of the game and not the other stuff. Like I literally bashed the game's horrible controls and the lack of cohesion between Witcher 2 and Witcher 3 in my original post. Read.

 

[NamelessMonk]

Stop projecting your American values of diversity on Europe, please. Also, please recognize the unique cultural identity of the Polish people instead of lumping all of Europe together with white Americans. It shows a complete lack of respect towards a nation and people that has suffered immensely these last few centuries.

Poland has no history of colonization or pushing into other countries, quite the contrary. Poland has been partitioned and annexed so many times they stopped counting.



The Witcher 1 featured a dark skinned Zerrikanian mage and Hearts of Stone has the Ofieri people. The Northern Kingdoms are simply a very homogeneous area. Just like Poland. So their decision makes a lot of sense in that regard.

If you look at Cyberpunk 2077 for example you see much more people of colour because its society is much more multicultural.




Richard Cobbett from RockPaperShotgun wrote an excellent piece on how The Witcher 3 does female representation largely right. It's not perfect but it's great to see how well written characters like Yennefer, Ciri, Cerys, Shani, etc. are.

Yawn once again I'm Canadian and Race isn't just an "American" problem.

Two, I find it interesting that White people all want to benefit from Whiteness internationally the same way (When you're right, it was mostly Western Europeans who did all of that. Not like anyone can/cares to tell the difference), but all of a sudden now it's bad to lump them all into the same categories when it comes to cultures. How convenient. The VAST majority of the world does not care/know//give a fuck about the minute differences between European peoples. If a Polish person arrived in South Africa (Another place where race still is a problem) they'd benefit from The remnants of apartheid the same way a White African would.

Three, wasn't that character a major villain? Not making your side look good here.

Four, You're expecting me to trust some random person's (and judging from the name and publication, a white dude.) opinion on the sex politics in The Witcher. Why are you asking me to follow some random man's opinion? So now it's up to men to tell women how they should feel?

 

[Nere]

Yawn once again I'm Canadian and Race isn't just an "American" problem.

Two, I find it interesting that White people all want to benefit from Whiteness internationally the same way (When you're right, it was mostly Western Europeans who did all of that. Not like anyone can/cares to tell the difference), but all of a sudden now it's bad to lump them all into the same categories when it comes to cultures. How convenient. The VAST majority of the world does not care/know//give a fuck about the minute differences between European peoples. If a Polish person arrived in South Africa (Another place where race still is a problem) they'd benefit from The remnants of apartheid the same way a White African would.

Three, wasn't that character a major villain? Not making your side look good here.

Four, You're expecting me to trust some random person's (and judging from the name and publication, a white dude.) opinion on the sex politics in The Witcher. Why are you asking me to follow some random man's opinion? So now it's up to men to tell women how they should feel?

Your crusade against white people has deviated the entire thread which is about games into an arguement about race. The only one coming as racist here is you by preaching with ignorance that nobody in the world gives a fuck about the differences in European people, pathetic.

 

[chillybright]

Is every single one of these listing thread going to be derailed into a "Witcher 3 sucks" thread??

 

[NamelessMonk]

Your crusade against white people has deviated the entire thread which is about games into an arguement about race. The only one coming as racist here is you by preaching with ignorance that nobody in the world gives a fuck about the differences in European people, pathetic.

"Crusade against white people"

And where did I say that I didn't like white people? And it's true. Around the world when you meet people of different races a lot of people are going to default you into one of the giant race designations. if you go to Tokyo, they aren't going to identify you as Polish, because they don't know the difference between Polish people and other white people. You'll be "White". Sorry to burst your bubble.

Also I was wondering when I was going to be declared "The Real Racist" just because I didn't appreciate people excluding different races in video games because of a flimsy "it's based off of mythology" excuse. I also have an issue with how women are portrayed in this game, am I the "real Sexist" too?

Here's the end of it: Around the world, people who come from even more isolated backgrounds somehow manage to include different races of people in their work. This is true even in work that's not intended for a worldwide audience. The reason why CDProjekt Red didn't was because they didn't want to. End of discussion. Sorry, I don't see CD Projekt Red as "THE HEROEXZ OF GAMING" like the rest of you do. Cold world.

 

[NamelessMonk]

Is every single one of these listing thread going to be derailed into a "Witcher 3 sucks" thread??

Another one. Did I say that The Witcher 3 sucks, or did I say that I didn't get why people gave it 10/10s?

 

[abercrombie]

Just a glance at the top 10 and its already bizzare; I see maybe 2 games made specifically for PC?

Witcher 3 is #1? I think PC Gamer of yore is no longer.

 

[krameriffic]

From a popularity AND quality standpoint, having Dishonored and MGSV in a PC top 10 while LoL, WoW, and Overwatch, don't crack that top 10 is absurd. This opinion coming from a PC gaming outlet of all places is quite frankly unbelievable.

Did they make a typo and actually mean top PS3 games?

My experience reading mainstream games media tells me that Brad Shoemaker is the only person with more than a passing interest in games like Dota 2 and Starcraft 2. They simply don't have the time to focus all their gaming energy on games like those, and hence never receive much in the way of accolades despite their immense popularity.

 

[Eusis]

That's always the problem with lists such as this. Newer games are rated higher, because the (great) experience people had with them is much more recent.

Usually the lists tend to put older classics closer to the top, this is kind of unusual to me for having nothing released earlier than 2011 at the top (even though all ten of the top games are very good!)

Or at least they used to. I remember how EGM gave Tetris and SMB the awards for best game ever in the best. And it might be a matter of what everyone writing liked recently and while growing up, and those EGM lists were written at a time when many were getting into game journalism in the 80s or grew up with those games, and now we've got people who grew up with some late 90s/early 2000 games instead.

And, uhh, a lot of console games may've just stayed more accessible due to their control schemes being innately simpler, while PC made greater leaps with UIs that nevertheless ostracized many older games (though there should've been more LucasArts point & clicks.)

 

[RS4-]

Mgsv shouldn't even be on the list.

 

[Brinbe]

Lol...

 

[Poimandres]

STALKER is on the list, so I am happy.

 

[CountAntonius]

Great to see Rocket League and Dark Souls have itheir rightful place.

 

[Bishop89]

Half life and cs not in the top 2? shitty list

 

[Hypron]

STALKER is on the list, so I am happy.

Should be higher, though, it's such a great game.

Well, they are such great games. I love all 3.

 

[Famassu]

I don't really have too many other problems with the Top 10 (even if I'd put pretty much none of those in my personal Top 10 or 20), but Skyrim belong nowhere near the Top 10. Heck, I personally wouldn't probably even put it in the Top 50 or maybe even Top 100. So many more polished, better thought out, better designed, better written, better paced, better structured etc. games filled with marvelous content in the world than that mediocrity. The only thing it has going on is a big open world but the content (story, quest design, dialogue) in it is pretty crappy for the most part & as a role-playing game and an action-y RPG, it's below average as far as its gameplay mechanics go.

 

[Poimandres]

Should be higher, though, it's such a great game.

Well, they are such great games. I love all 3.

Didn't feature at all on last year's list, which is just a slap in the face.

Top 10 of all time for me.

 

[Langdon Alger]

Sad to see a story heavy game that has poor gameplay at the number one spot.

 

[Miletius]

Hard to agree with most of this list, but opinions are opinions. Dragon Age 2 being in the top 100 though....... what were they thinking.

 

[Bluth54]

Hard to agree with most of this list, but opinions are opinions. Dragon Age 2 being in the top 100 though....... what were they thinking.

PC Gamer has this weird love of Dragon Age 2 that I'll never understand.

 

[Tainted]

List is obviously flawed if there is no Quake or Doom in the top 10

Spoiler

imo

 

[Eusis]

PC Gamer has this weird love of Dragon Age 2 that I'll never understand.

Probably one crazy editor who beats the rest into submission. Or at least is vocal enough to get it on a fucking top 100 list.

 

[SamualDude]

Kind of surprised none of the Sims games made the list. I would of expected at least the first or second to make the list.

 

[Diancecht]

PC Gamer has this weird love of Dragon Age 2 that I'll never understand.

They always try to justify that hot 94 that they gave it to Dragon Age 2: Same Fuckin' Dungeon.

 

[Sanctuary]

as a fan of the thief series and the original deus ex, Dishonored was a fun game in a "aww isn't this cute " kind of way.

5th best game?

I honestly had way more fun with Thief 2: The Metal Age than Dishonored. The beginning of Dishonored was amazing, but after the prison, all of its potential for great atmosphere took a dive into the Thames. The gameplay was way too convenient and lazy too, borrowing way too many modern conventions. I could have forgiven the brainless gameplay if the locations weren't so damn boring.

How did Skyrim even make the list

When you consider how many copies it sold, how it still has a flourishing mod community, and how it's not particularly ugly to look at, who knows?!

If I'm only going to play one Dark Souls it should be 3?

Definitely not. The first Dark Souls is on that list for a reason. It's still the best of the Dark Souls games, and its only competitor is Demon's Souls.

Better itemization, better atmosphere, better level generation, better multiplayer, better enemy design etc.

Maybe you should actually read what this list is about again. It's dumb to argue over this anyway. I spent way more time with Diablo 2 than Diablo 3, but that doesn't mean Diablo 2 is nearly as playable now.
And I know all about Corpse Explosion. I ended up with a level 95 Necro on ladder before the major nerf to it and Whirlwind.

 

[Fantastapotamus]

Those lists should just not be numbered except maybe the Top 10.

 

[potatohead]

Terrible top 10.

Really, one of the worst. Even Time's top GOAT games top 10 seems good compared to this.

Just a glance at the top 10 and its already bizzare; I see maybe 2 games made specifically for PC?

Witcher 3 is #1? I think PC Gamer of yore is no longer.

Most of the big sites died long time ago. GS of 2001 is not at all GS of today either.

 

[potatohead]

Found a couple different sources.

May 1997 (original write-ups on that page if anyone's curious):


October 1998:


The only games on the new list and one of the old lists are C&C: Red Alert (1997, 1998) and The Curse of Monkey Island (1998). Doom was on both older lists, but Doom II seems a more common pick for modern all-time lists. Many of the older games also have spiritual representation through their modern successors or sequels.

Now those are excellent lists.

 

[Mass_Pincup]

Dishonored, Dragon Age 1 & 2, Her Story makes me quite happy, TW3 being first is highly questionable to say the list though and the lack of any of the Shadowrun games is a glaring omission. I also feels like the list is way to modern centric.

Overall it's flawed Top 100.